How important is volunteering for non-trads?

[will7678]

I was just wondering how much I should be worried about adding volunteer experience to my application while I start to take prereqs. I recently started as an RN (Associates Degree) in June and will be starting to take the prereqs this Spring graduating after Fall 09 with a BA in Chemistry. So during that time I will have plenty of exposure to the medical field working in an ICU the entire time.
Do you think that the admissions boards will understand that working full time, taking 16 credits a semester at a school an hour drive away and trying to spend time with my wife in their somewhere does not leave time for volunteer work? It seems like many people volunteer in a hospital to show that they know what medicine is really like. Wouldn't 2+ years as an RN show much more of an understanding of what it really takes to care for a patient? Thanks for reading and I look forward to seeing your opinions.

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[gman33]

I would say you don't need additional time for clinical experience, but it would be nice to have some volunteer time to show your desire to help others. You obviously will be doing that as a nurse; doing something else would only help. Maybe you have something in your past that you can put down; ie little league coach, tutor...

You wouldn't get bumped for not having this, but it would help your application.

 

[zird00]

OP - I understand your dilemma. I am a medical social worker and am currently employed in a community health center. I have often wondered if I must find extra hours in the day to volunteer. However, I have resolved this dilemma with my own experience and a desire to achieve high grades in the pre-reqs. While I agree additional, community-based volunteering may be beneficial. I would advise you NOT to sacrifice other things (grades, work - especially medically related, etc.) for this time.

 

[kami333]

Yes it is still important. Non-trads still have to jump through all the pre-med hoops like everyone else.

Volunteering/community service is more about showing your altruistic side. Many premeds use volunteering in a hospital to get the clinical exposure as well though.

Will it hurt you? Depends on the school. I know of at least one school that won't consider you if you haven't volunteered (I've asked since I work full time and go to school full time).
Will some schools overlook it? Probably.
You just need to decide whether it's worth it or not.

Look around, you should be able to find something that will fit into your schedule and situation. I've found one that is on Friday nights and will be doing it with my girlfriend.

 

[Law2Doc]

Yes it is still important. Non-trads still have to jump through all the pre-med hoops like everyone else.

Volunteering/community service is more about showing your altruistic side. Many premeds use volunteering in a hospital to get the clinical exposure as well though.

Will it hurt you? Depends on the school. I know of at least one school that won't consider you if you haven't volunteered (I've asked since I work full time and go to school full time).
Will some schools overlook it? Probably.
You just need to decide whether it's worth it or not.

Look around, you should be able to find something that will fit into your schedule and situation. I've found one that is on Friday nights and will be doing it with my girlfriend.

Back when I applied, I actually only came across one school that required non-hospital volunteering of its applicants. Most places want volunteering as a form of clinical exposure (which I suspect an RN already has plenty of).

 

[gotmeds?]

Yes it is still important. Non-trads still have to jump through all the pre-med hoops like everyone else.

That's what a lot of non-trads don't get. We figure they'll give us a pass because we're 30 and working full-time or whatever. It just doesn't work that way. You need to do everything that the traditional pre-meds do, or at least as much of it as you can manage.

 

[RxnMan]

Back when I applied, I actually only came across one school that required non-hospital volunteering of its applicants. Most places want volunteering as a form of clinical exposure (which I suspect an RN already has plenty of).

Exactly - volunteering isn't the issue, its more of getting clinical exposure.

That's what a lot of non-trads don't get. We figure they'll give us a pass because we're 30 and working full-time or whatever. It just doesn't work that way. You need to do everything that the traditional pre-meds do, or at least as much of it as you can manage.

This is also true. Every ADCOM wants to see 3.6/30+ gpa and MCAT and the standard spread of clinical exposure and maybe research. Doesn't matter if you're 25 or 50 - they just want to see those qualifications and your chances of an acceptance go up.

 

[saylorsdad]

I agree that we play the same game, however when you have a family the adcom I've delt with "seemed" to understand that my work exp more than made up for not having x number of hours volunteering. So it is relative and you must even as a non trad contact the admissions office and find out what they want.

I did write seemed since I haven't been admitted yet, so take my advice with a grain of sand. Other med students posting here are a more credible source than myself.

 

[Law2Doc]

I agree that we play the same game, however when you have a family the adcom I've delt with "seemed" to understand that my work exp more than made up for not having x number of hours volunteering. So it is relative and you must even as a non trad contact the admissions office and find out what they want.

I did write seemed since I haven't been admitted yet, so take my advice with a grain of sand. Other med students posting here are a more credible source than myself.

Well, they will take into account work experience, but you didn't say what your work experience was, so if the work experience isn't healthcare work, you still would have to obtain clinical experience of some sort. This is critical not just because all med schools want it, but because you need to have hands on exposure as to what doctors do for a living before you are competent to decide you want to make a career of it. I would argue that this is more important for nontrads (who are presumably giving up a career to go into medicine) than for trads because you are expected to be better thought out. If you don't have clinical experience through your employment, I wouldn't believe anyone who "seemed" to understand. All med schools require it for admission these days.

 

[AKN]

f the work experience isn't healthcare work, you still would have to obtain clinical experience of some sort.

I'm wondering if there are other fields of study that require shadowing. Do engineers, pilots, lawyers, cosmetologists, nurses, accountants, etc. require you to follow around a professional before admitting you to study with them? I can't think of any other profession that requires it. Why is medical school different?

Note: I do think it's a good idea and have fully enjoyed the shadowing I've done.

 

[QofQuimica]

I'm wondering if there are other fields of study that require shadowing. Do engineers, pilots, lawyers, cosmetologists, nurses, accountants, etc. require you to follow around a professional before admitting you to study with them? I can't think of any other profession that requires it. Why is medical school different?

Note: I do think it's a good idea and have fully enjoyed the shadowing I've done.

Most other professions do their gatekeeping after you're admitted to school, not beforehand like medicine does.

 

[Law2Doc]

Most other professions do their gatekeeping after you're admitted to school, not beforehand like medicine does.

Exactly. For example law schools will fail you out if necessary, and dropping out isn't uncommon. So it's not that big a deal if they make a mistake in admissions. Folks will work at law firms after first or second year, and may decide they don't like it at that juncture. Then those that remain still have to pass a bar exam where as many as 30-40% (depending on the state) won't pass anyhow and won't become lawyers (that year).

By contrast, better than 94% of US allo med students will become physicians. So the adcom is really the last gatekeeper of import. So you make people be sure by that juncture, because after that, it's a fairly nonstop flight to the profession.

 

[Renkat2sj]

so . . . i wondered the same thing. I worked at a hospital in an OR for a little while so while that may certainly count as some clinical exposure, i felt that i had better 'jump through the hoop' so to speak, and continue volunteering. (i moved when i started grad school, so i had to find a new volunteering gig in my new town.) since i already had the clinical thing partially down, and i intend to do some shadowing before i apply, i thought i'd try volunteering in something non-medical. i decided to go for tutoring 'at risk' kids in a low income housing project. and i will tell you that, 100 percent, i dont regret it. even though it is not medically related, it makes me want to be a doctor even more, because it really HAS given me a whole lot of insight about what i really want. i used to wonder whether i desperately wanted to help people, or if i just wanted to be a doc because i like science. not until volunteering as a tutor did i realize that in fact, i do, really and truly, want to help people. i REALLY want to. which, in turn, has made me more confident that i am pursuing my path for the right reason.

in addition to ALLLLL that it's done for me . . . i am helping THEM. there are so many kids that feel like no one cares about them, and i show up week after week to help them and listen to them, and let me tell you, it means so much more to them than i was prepared for. and time? this only takes three hours a week. three hours i'd probably waste anyway, a week is 168 hours, 3 doesn't make a dent in your time but it will make one in your personality. and it doesnt have to be tutoring, do anything you care about.

so, whatever. for anyone who doesn't want to volunteer, good luck, and maybe it will work out for you, it certainly has for lots of other people. but now that i am doing it i can really see why they want you to. you do it for you. and yes, cliche as it may sound by this point, you do want to help people. this will remind you of that in case you start to forget.

(this isnt directed just at the OP, this is just my attitude in general having seen lots of people ask the same thing, and yes, once wondering the same thing myself!!)

 

[will7678]

Thanks for all of the replies everyone. It seems a lot like what I thought in that it probably varies from school to school. I really wish I had more time to do everything but I know that if I booked myself even further my grades would suffer. Now that I know for sure would not help my chances of getting in.

 

[efex101]

Some schools have "checkoff" lists that are filled out while you interview there. The components will vary but it is VERY common to have a "volunteering" section and a "healthcare" exposure section. So while some medical school will be okay with NO community volunteering but ample healthcare exposure other medical schools will EXPECT both regardless if you are 25 or 55. Volunteering in the community does NOT take that much effort and it is very rewarding. You do not have to do 10 hrs/week. You can really get something out of it with maybe 2-4 hrs/week doing something meaningful to YOU. There are many non-traditional applicants that seem to be able to fit everything in (working FT/going to classes and aceing them/exposure to healthcare/some sort of volunteering in their community/and raising a family). It does come at the expense of personal time but they do it. You can easily become a big brother/big sister and volunteer in this way which is very very rewarding and the time commitment is not that huge. Yes, you may have to spend less time with your own family but sometimes that is the price we all pay for pursuing this dream. Good luck.

 

[efex101]

Another point, this is WHY it is better to take your time getting ALL the required elements in place, apply and for sure get IN with options of where to .....VERSUS rushing through, not having ALL the elements in place and God forbid NOT getting in...(which does happen to some non-trads that just want to quickly get IN without thinking through how much there truly is to do). I am saying this not to discourage anyone, but to emphasize that IF YOU DO everything that you KNOW you "should" do to be competitive AMONG ALL types of applicants (non-trads and trads) your chances of getting IN are much MUCH higher. Sure, we always hear the isolated stories of someone getting in with NO clinical experience, or NO volunteering, but these by far are in the minority. Most applicants that are currently applying this cycle have ALL the components necessary to be successful in this highly competitive endeavor.

 

[tc13]

One of my professors is a practicing Neurologist and has been spent a good number of years on the admissions committee at UTSW. He offered me some very practical input. He said he would ask me to demonstrate that I was really interested in medicine. In his mind if I was interested in a field, I'd be doing something to feed that interest, other than reading and studying, such as shadowing, working in a lab part time, or volunteering in the ER. He wasn't overly concerned about the "total hours" spent doing it or even what I did, but he did want see something on my application that answered this question directly.

Personally, I wanted to get close to medicine, the ER, and surgery just to make sure I had a real interest in doing this. If I'm certain that I've seen enough to know that this is how I want to spend the better part of my life, then I know I can get a adcom member to see it too.

 

[RxnMan]

Most other professions do their gatekeeping after you're admitted to school, not beforehand like medicine does.

Engineering gate-keeping is done at the level of the bachelor's degree. At my alma mater, the school president gives a welcoming speech where he tells the incoming class to "look to your right, look to your left, two of you won't graduate from here."

For the most part it was true.

I like the "non-stop flight" image!

OP - With respect to efex's comments, I think the check-off list is true. When you get to applying, look at the EC section of the Re-app FAQ (link in my signature). I put down my ideas on how to categorize your ECs so that you can check off as many boxes as you can. Best of luck.

 

[QofQuimica]

Engineering gate-keeping is done at the level of the bachelor's degree. At my alma mater, the school president gives a welcoming speech where he tells the incoming class to "look to your right, look to your left, two of you won't graduate from here."

For the most part it was true.

I like the "non-stop flight" image!

I can't think of any other profession offhand besides medicine where significant attrition from school is *not* the norm, actually. Many college students in every major don't finish; there are always lots more freshmen than there are seniors. My college had about 50% attrition. And of course, a very large number of grad students who enter PhD programs don't finish, either. In spite of all their shortcomings, med school adcoms do a pretty decent job of picking students who are nearly guaranteed to make it through as licensed physicians on the other side.