How "inbred" are Ivy League medical schools?

[organesha]

It seems like many of their accepted applicants went to an Ivy for undergrad. What might the chances be for an applicant with great stats, interesting ECs, plenty of research, pubs, etc. that went to a small LAC or state school?

Personal anecdotes and/or actual data welcome. I found a similar thread but it's 8 years old, wanted to keep things contemporary.

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[somuchwater]

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[petyr_baelish]

 

[CherryRedDracul]

I have heard from people who got into JHU med that the distribution is something like 35% harvard, 35% yale,10% emory, 10% jhu, and 10% other random schools (U of MD, U of Mich, etc.)

Off on a slight tangent, I do know that JHU loves to take its own med students for their residencies.

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

Anecdotally, most of the Ivy league med students I know went to random non-ivy schools for undergrad.

 

[darkjedi]

Around 1/2 my class is from either an ivy, MIT or stanford. The rest are from a variety of very normal schools though

 

[Reckoner]

I've heard they all hire this kid to play at their white coat ceremonies:

Wait, what kind of "inbred" are we talking?

 

[WillburCobb]

I've heard they all hire this kid to play at their white coat ceremonies:

Wait, what kind of "inbred" are we talking?

He gotta real purty mouth, ain't he?

 

[Ace-Co-A]

I have heard from people who got into JHU med that the distribution is something like 35% harvard, 35% yale,10% emory, 10% jhu, and 10% other random schools (U of MD, U of Mich, etc.)

Emory surprises me as a feeder school for Hopkins med.

 

[Goro]

With the exception of Brown, which highly favors its own UGs, the Ivies seem to accept about 15% of their own UGs. Harvard is N/A, but you can see the numbers for Penn, Cornell, etc in MSAR.

It seems like many of their accepted applicants went to an Ivy for undergrad. What might the chances be for an applicant with great stats, interesting ECs, plenty of research, pubs, etc. that went to a small LAC or state school?

Personal anecdotes and/or actual data welcome. I found a similar thread but it's 8 years old, wanted to keep things contemporary.

 

[Narmerguy]

I think the important takeaway from this is that where you go to school will not hold you back from getting into an Ivy.

 

[NickNaylor]

It seems like many of their accepted applicants went to an Ivy for undergrad. What might the chances be for an applicant with great stats, interesting ECs, plenty of research, pubs, etc. that went to a small LAC or state school?

Personal anecdotes and/or actual data welcome. I found a similar thread but it's 8 years old, wanted to keep things contemporary.

People that go to Harvard are more likely to have the drive, work ethic, and smarts to do well compared to State U. This is obviously a huge generalization but I'd say it's pretty accurate.

Narmer's point above is ultimately what matters. If you work hard and prepare well, your undergrad will be unimportant. Your accomplishments will speak for themselves. I'm of the opinion that attending an Ivy is advantageous for med school admissions for a variety of reasons, but that doesn't mean that attending a non-Ivy is a positive disadvantage.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mcloaf]

Emory surprises me as a feeder school for Hopkins med.

They seem to be a pretty strong feeder for medicine in general. There are more kids in my class from Emory than I expected.

 

[swolebrah]

They seems to be a pretty strong feeder for medicine in general. There are more kids in my class from Emory than I expected.

mirin avi

 

[alpinism]

Makes sense since Emory and Duke are basically the Ivies of the south.

It seems like quite a few great students end up there because they don't want to live up north or want to stay closer to friends/family.

To answer your question OP, most ivy league med schools are very inbred. However, this is in large part due to selection bias and the high quality of their applicants.

 

[phunky]

28 of HMSs matriculants came from Harvard college last year, more than double any other school.

 

[Psai]

It's not about taking them because they are a student at Harvard but it's because they got into Harvard. These people are generally top notch candidates and would be even if they went to Podunk U. Medical schools are looking for top students and most of these top students are found at top colleges for obvious reasons.

 

[plumazul]

It seems like many of their accepted applicants went to an Ivy for undergrad. What might the chances be for an applicant with great stats, interesting ECs, plenty of research, pubs, etc. that went to a small LAC or state school?

Personal anecdotes and/or actual data welcome. I found a similar thread but it's 8 years old, wanted to keep things contemporary.

I don't know if the MSTP exactly mirrors NP/HST enrollment or if HMS is the same as the other Ivys, but have a look. There is actually someone there from Cal State Fullerton 😱

Yale's MSTP directory is here.

 

[samsunimomo]

I had the opportunity to meet the Harvard MSTP from Fullerton when she was a summer intern at the NIH. She's very smart and invested in research. I believe that she was also the valedictorian for her class.

 

[nemo123]

I don't know if the MSTP exactly mirrors NP/HST enrollment or if HMS is the same as the other Ivys, but have a look. There is actually someone there from Cal State Fullerton 😱

Yale's MSTP directory is here.

I'm not sure about this, but isn't there also a lot of MIT inbreeding for the HST program? The number of MIT alums in the HST MSTP program seem to reinforce this idea.

 

[asw98]

I know Weill Cornell accepts at least 30 Cornell undergrads every year.

 

[Gauss44]

The disadvantaged genius theory:

In general, the younger people are the more they rely on advisers and family for help getting into top schools, and the older they are the more self-reliant. I suspect that part of the reason Ivy medical schools are taking candidates from non-Ivy undergraduate schools, is that there are super intelligent people who, as teenagers, lacked the advising/resources necessary to get into a top school.

Think of all the first-generation college students from the middle of nowhere, kids without parents from poor neighborhoods, etc. Then they go to undergraduate school and get more resources and time to learn about graduate school, or they go to Student Doctor Network, find out what Ivy's care about (and why they matter), and end up getting in. Or they simply learn that they have a chance at getting into an Ivy, and that you don't have to be related to a past president of the USA to go to one, and therefore try applying in the first place (which is sort of a rumor).

For anyone in their 30's, I would count the development of the internet as another reason a highly intelligent person would have more resources or advising now than when applying to undergrad.

Of course if your parents did go to Harvard, they might know exactly how Harvard evaluates candidates, and use that knowledge to benefit you and your siblings = a huge advantage.

 

[chillaxbro]

Also if you have legacy, a lot of schools automatically give you an II

 

[lalax]

The disadvantaged genius theory:

In general, the younger people are the more they rely on advisers and family for help getting into top schools, and the older they are the more self-reliant. I suspect that part of the reason Ivy medical schools are taking candidates from non-Ivy undergraduate schools, is that there are super intelligent people who, as teenagers, lacked the advising/resources necessary to get into a top school.

Think of all the first-generation college students from the middle of nowhere, kids without parents from poor neighborhoods, etc. Then they go to undergraduate school and get more resources and time to learn about graduate school, or they go to Student Doctor Network, find out what Ivy's care about (and why they matter), and end up getting in. Or they simply learn that they have a chance at getting into an Ivy, and that you don't have to be related to a past president of the USA to go to one, and therefore try applying in the first place (which is sort of a rumor).

For anyone in their 30's, I would count the development of the internet as another reason a highly intelligent person would have more resources or advising now than when applying to undergrad.

Of course if your parents did go to Harvard, they might know exactly how Harvard evaluates candidates, and use that knowledge to benefit you and your siblings = a huge advantage.

Not only knowledge... if your parents did go to Harvard you're evaluated as a legacy during the college admissions process, which gives you a pretty huge advantage. A couple of years back the acceptance rate was 7% at Harvard College, but for legacies it was around 35%.

 

[alt12345]

Also if you have legacy, a lot of schools automatically give you an II

Is this true? I've never heard this.

 

[darkjedi]

Is this true? I've never heard this.

definitely not true

 

[whatever5]

definitely not true

I'd say it's true. I got an II at a top 20 med school that I'm sure was solely because of legacy (both my GPA and MCAT were below the 10th percentile).

 

[nemo123]

Is this true? I've never heard this.

I've read that Duke has something like this (ie if your parents graduated from Duke Med, you're automatically granted an II). Maybe someone can confirm.

 

[moop]

Yale accepts 30 of its own undergrads out of the total 150ish it accepts. Not all of them go, but that's a significant amount, and that's only Yale we're talking about.

Source: http://ucs.yalecollege.yale.edu/sites/default/files/med_school_stats.pdf

 

[Narmerguy]

Is this true? I've never heard this.

It may not be a formal thing, could perhaps be informal, and probably not equally true at all schools.

 

[orangeman25]

Also if you have legacy, a lot of schools automatically give you an II

If you are a duke undergrad, and apply to duke medical school, you get an automatic interview. Duke isn't an ivy obviously, but it's considered in that tier

 

[orangeman25]

I've read that Duke has something like this (ie if your parents graduated from Duke Med, you're automatically granted an II). Maybe someone can confirm.

You are automatically given an interview if you attend duke undergrad and apply to the medical school. Duke heavily favors their own

 

[plumazul]

The disadvantaged genius theory:

In general, the younger people are the more they rely on advisers and family for help getting into top schools, and the older they are the more self-reliant. I suspect that part of the reason Ivy medical schools are taking candidates from non-Ivy undergraduate schools, is that there are super intelligent people who, as teenagers, lacked the advising/resources necessary to get into a top school.

That could be "part of the reason", but don't forget that schools like Harvard do not yield 100%. State schools and lower tier privates steal away Ivy League level acceptees with offers of large merit scholarships. There are several of us in my state school's Honors College. Sometimes you get an offer that you just can't refuse.

 

[Espadaleader]

These schools are inbred. Yale for example tends to be 10 Yale 10 Harvard 2 Cornell 2 UCLA 2 (insert several other medical schools here) and everyone else. This sheet is given out every year during interviews. Harvard is the same. A lot of schools are represented. State schools, Podunk schools, everywhere. Yes, they are inbred but usually 50 plus schools are represented. I would say the MSTP is not diverse in terms of representation.

 

[jturkel]

so inbred that autosomal recessive diseases are running rampant!

 

[Ace-Co-A]

Also if you have legacy, a lot of schools automatically give you an II

If you are a duke undergrad, and apply to duke medical school, you get an automatic interview.

Statements like these that crop up on SDN just leave me scratching my head... I'm tempted to ask for their reasons for believing it but there is no chance anyone actually knows.

Edit: Typo

 

[orangeman25]

Statements like these that crop up on SDN just leave me scratching my head... I'm tempted to ask for their reasons for believing it but there is no chance anyone actually knows.

Edit: Typo

If university- specific statements are made, chances are that the person that made such statement has a close affiliation with the university (either attends it, knows someone that does, etc etc).

Of course, believing such a statement is a different story.

 

[mmmcdowe]

So inbred that everyone already knows each others day before the first day of med school.

Jk

 

[Ace-Co-A]

If university- specific statements are made, chances are that the person that made such statement has a close affiliation with the university (either attends it, knows someone that does, etc etc).

Of course, believing such a statement is a different story.

My skepticism is in regards to the people at the school/associate with the school who believe that a medical school would interview all applicants from its university. It's the kind of rumor that could get passed from person to person without any good way of checking it, really. I mean, I guess you could look around and do a mini-survey of pre-meds at your school and see if they got an interview at the medical school. If many of them claim to get interviews, then the story is believable.

Still though, it'd be hard to believe.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[bakedbeans18]

My god, there were people who I went to undergrad with that went to our university's medical school (this is an Ivy) and quite frankly the notion of these people becoming physicians is scary. Borderline personality disorder if I've ever seen it. Horrifying.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

My god, there were people who I went to undergrad with that went to our university's medical school (this is an Ivy) and quite frankly the notion of these people becoming physicians is scary. Borderline personality disorder if I've ever seen it. Horrifying.

Screening process fail?

 

[chillaxbro]

Statements like these that crop up on SDN just leave me scratching my head... I'm tempted to ask for their reasons for believing it but there is no chance anyone actually knows.

Edit: Typo

A physician I shadow went to a school I happened to interview at. His son also goes there now. He mentioned that his son got an interview automatically because he also went there. Not an Ivy though but I'm willing to bet many do something similar. Why else would they ask about legacy? Best case scenario it gives your app a boost, worst case it is neutral and doesn't mean anything.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

A physician I shadow went to a school I happened to interview at. His son also goes there now. He mentioned that his son got an interview automatically because he also went there. Not an Ivy though but I'm willing to bet many do something similar. Why else would they ask about legacy? Best case scenario it gives your app a boost, worst case it is neutral and doesn't mean anything.

Touché. I always wondered why many schools ask about associations with the medical school. It's strange that legacy status is recognized for, well, anything really...

 

[bakedbeans18]

Screening process fail?

You fackin know it pal.

 

[Aerus]

Touché. I always wondered why many schools ask about associations with the medical school. It's strange that legacy status is recognized for, well, anything really...

If you list a legacy and that legacy happens to be a prominent alumni donor, then there you go. The schools want their donors to keep donating. 😉

 

[bakedbeans18]

I hope my children will have an advantage at my undergraduate university when it comes time for their college applications. Someone in my graduation year, was a 5th generation, and their great-great-grandfather had been a member of the first graduating class of our university. That's dope.

 

[Narmerguy]

A physician I shadow went to a school I happened to interview at. His son also goes there now. He mentioned that his son got an interview automatically because he also went there. Not an Ivy though but I'm willing to bet many do something similar. Why else would they ask about legacy? Best case scenario it gives your app a boost, worst case it is neutral and doesn't mean anything.

To be honest, a lot of people say this kind of stuff and have no idea what they're talking about. It's similar to people making "calls" to the admissions department on behalf of an applicant. When that applicant is given an interview/acceptance they may be inclined to think their call played some role, when in reality the student could have gotten in regardless of the callers efforts. Don't take third person hearsay as a reliable indication of institution-wide policies, people see too little of the pie to always know what's going on.