How is Anesthesiology ROAD?

[DermViser]

Sure fire way of getting the charge nurse to ass rape your pager q15m. They are true lovers of sanctimonious argument for the sport of it.

Yeah, premeds/med students tend to get off their soapbox quite quick once they're yelled at by their residents and no longer get an "A" for effort.

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[circulus vitios]

Sure fire way of getting the charge nurse to ass rape your pager q15m. They are true lovers of sanctimonious argument for the sport of it.

Why would I rock the boat in school or in residency? I have nothing to win and everything to lose.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Why would I rock the boat in school or in residency? I have nothing to win and everything to lose.

Why would you rock the boat on an anonymous internet forum? Desire to be validated? Grandiose sense of own opinion? I have no idea.

 

[circulus vitios]

Why would you rock the boat on an anonymous internet forum? Desire to be validated? Grandiose sense of own opinion? I have no idea.

I'm not rocking the boat. Don't like how practice owners are running their practice then take it up with them or opt out of predatory abuse by taking a lower-paying job at a hospital. Sorry, but I'm not going to partake in the entitled circlejerking, as if we're owed a piece of the pie without putting in any of the work.

 

[Nasrudin]

I'm not rocking the boat. Don't like how practice owners are running their practice then take it up with them or opt out of predatory abuse by taking a lower-paying job at a hospital. Sorry, but I'm not going to partake in the entitled circlejerking, as if we're owed a piece of the pie without putting in any of the work.

I think atomi's post was factually accurate. Particularly in regards to economics. The social history commentary part is obviously much more contentious but I still agree with him/her.

You interpret that analysis as a matter of personal responsibility. Or lack thereof. I think that you're acting as a psychic card and bones reader there. Because atomi could be a vicious Ayn Randian capitalist and still have that opinion. You're arguing something already in your head.

I'd be curious to hear what you think about what atomi said specifically. Rather than hear your Hannity-style talking points angled by your preconceived notion of what was implied.

 

[PL198]

I think atomi's post was factually accurate. Particularly in regards to economics. The social history commentary part is obviously much more contentious but I still agree with him/her.

You interpret that analysis as a matter of personal responsibility. Or lack thereof. I think that you're acting as a psychic card and bones reader there. Because atomi could be a vicious Ayn Randian capitalist and still have that opinion. Your arguing something already in your head.

I'd be curious to hear what you think about what atomi said specifically. Rather than hear you Hannity-style talking points angled by your preconceived notion of what was implied.

There weren't any facts in it though. It was all just sentiments. There weren't any specific examples of ways our generation got screwed. The average person in our generation is a *****, you start going down the whole " man the baby boomers really screwed us over," and it just gives them another reason to suck and be useless.

 

[DermViser]

I'm not rocking the boat. Don't like how practice owners are running their practice then take it up with them or opt out of predatory abuse by taking a lower-paying job at a hospital. Sorry, but I'm not going to partake in the entitled circlejerking, as if we're owed a piece of the pie without putting in any of the work.

And straight to hospital MBA we go. Oh, I'm sorry, MD/MBA.

 

[DermViser]

There weren't any facts in it though. It was all just sentiments. There weren't any specific examples of ways our generation got screwed. The average person in our generation is a *****, you start going down the whole " man the baby boomers really screwed us over," and it just gives them another reason to suck and be useless.

 

[Nasrudin]

There weren't any facts in it though. It was all just sentiments. There weren't any specific examples of ways our generation got screwed. The average person in our generation is a *****, you start going down the whole " man the baby boomers really screwed us over," and it just gives them another reason to suck and be useless.

A simple review of the dollar value of education and other benefits they received from their parents' generation and their abysmal contribution to those basic principles reveal a lot about the cultural software being run by baby boomers. In my opinion this makes the argument factual.

 

[circulus vitios]

And straight to hospital MBA we go. Oh, I'm sorry, MD/MBA.

I'd rather work in private practice, but there's nothing wrong with healthcare administration.

 

[PL198]

A simple review of the dollar value of education and other benefits they received from their parents' generation and their abysmal contribution to those basic principles reveal a lot about the cultural software being run by baby boomers. In my opinion this makes the argument factual.

ok? yet that isn't them screwing us as the reason we won't get the same, it's the fact that our whole nation is filled with lazy people who drain the system. I'm not sure how you attribute that to baby boomers.

 

[Nasrudin]

ok? yet that isn't them screwing us as the reason we won't get the same, it's the fact that our whole nation is filled with lazy people who drain the system. I'm not sure how you attribute that to baby boomers.

I'm not sure how you could attribute the amount people have to work just to survive now, compared to the era baby boomers were reared in, to laziness. But I guess we just disagree. Some disagreements are fundamental and the starting points too disparate to really achieve much in discussion.

If you think collapsing return on American labor is due to laziness, then I'm afraid there isn't much point in talking about it.

 

[anbuitachi]

So I talked to some attendings since I'm currently on Anesthesia rotation. Ppl say it's controlled lifestyle b/c its shift work but that's not really true in terms of controlled lifestyle. It's true that after work you dont have to really worry about the patients, but it's hard to know when you get off. There might be add ons or emergencies. Plus People say EM is bad b/c of overnight shifts, but from the EM docs ive communicated with, they usually do ~3 shifts of overnight per month. Idk about other hospitals but the academic center Im rotating at, the attendings do a 24 hour call every 6 days , so that's 4 overnight shifts per month. Plus attendings average hours go from 6am to 6pm. I also don't really understand why Anesthesia is part of ROAD. There's a lot of stress involved, since these attendings are managing multiple ORs at the same time (usually resident is left alone in one and the attending stays in the other, but attending responsible for both) and these guys literally work case after case w/ about 15 minutes of setup time (for OR cleaning etc) in between.

BTW, if you take a look at Medscape 2014 patient satisfaction survey, anesthesiology ranks fairly low. most would not choose medicine or their specialty again..

 

[DermViser]

I'd rather work in private practice, but there's nothing wrong with healthcare administration.

By the time you graduate and finish residency/fellowships, private practice options will be much less available and decreased due to hospital consolidation. Hope you keep up that same attitude on the suits once you're in residency and are practicing.

 

[PL198]

I'm not sure how you could attribute the amount people have to work just to survive now, compared to the era baby boomers were reared in, to laziness. But I guess we just disagree. Some disagreements are fundamental and the starting points too disparate to really achieve much in discussion.

If you think collapsing return on American labor is due to laziness, then I'm afraid there isn't much point in talking about it.

I don't understand, significant reasons for these things you speak of, are due to the fact that things like social security are doing terribly, because we let millions of people on them, that never paid a dime into them. We have this excessive pool of leeches on American society, and so far we(real working people) haven't been able to be successful enough to carry the huge weight on our shoulders(the leeches). That's just bad policy.

 

[anbuitachi]

I don't understand, significant reasons for these things you speak of, are due to the fact that things like social security are doing terribly, because we let millions of people on them, that never paid a dime into them. We have this excessive pool of leeches on American society, and so far we(real working people) haven't been able to be successful enough to carry the huge weight on our shoulders(the leeches). That's just bad policy.

that's what obama is aiming for. the rich/successful should carry the burden of the poor

 

[PL198]

that's what obama is aiming for. the rich/successful should carry the burden of the poor

It's already been done for years.

 

[Nasrudin]

The greatest psychological achievement of our wealthiest sect has been to convince enough Americans, who have no chance of achieving such fantastic wealth, to insulate them from the consequences of separating the rest of us from what small amounts of wealth we do have.

But back to anesthesiology.

I think part of what makes it ROAD worthy is that it is so clean. "Hey...how are you...I see. Well just sign here...and...go to sleep." Anesthesiologists are not going to fill out your kid's health clearance forms to play little league and all the thousands of things that slowly kill the PCP or whoever else is stuck in the middle of the bureaucratic morass.

So they take turns covering late. Or have to man the other side of the curtain for some uncertain evening departure. Still seems pretty sweet.

 

[atomi]

The partners are free to do whatever falls under the contract, and no one held a gun to his head when he signed it.

Ah, perfect! This thread was getting a little too real and needed a dose of idealism ala sophomoric Ayn Rand-esque maniacal hyperbole. Thanks for that.

 

[circulus vitios]

Ah, perfect! This thread was getting a little too real and needed a dose of idealism ala sophomoric Ayn Rand-esque maniacal hyperbole. Thanks for that.

This is reality, and I'm far from a Randian nutjob.

 

[PL198]

This is reality, and I'm far from a Randian nutjob.

Randian nutjob checking . Have a copy of the fountainhead 12 inches from me

 

[IlDestriero]

So I talked to some attendings since I'm currently on Anesthesia rotation. Ppl say it's controlled lifestyle b/c its shift work but that's not really true in terms of controlled lifestyle. It's true that after work you dont have to really worry about the patients, but it's hard to know when you get off. There might be add ons or emergencies...
Idk about other hospitals but the academic center Im rotating at, the attendings do a 24 hour call every 6 days , so that's 4 overnight shifts per month. Plus attendings average hours go from 6am to 6pm. I also don't really understand why Anesthesia is part of ROAD. There's a lot of stress involved, since these attendings are managing multiple ORs at the same time (usually resident is left alone in one and the attending stays in the other, but attending responsible for both) and these guys literally work case after case w/ about 15 minutes of setup time (for OR cleaning etc) in between.

That's a bad academic job. I work in a large group at a 400+ bed children's hospital. We average one call a month and a weekend every other month.
7 to around 4 is the norm for most with a few scheduled late shifts a month that rarely go past 7. Several days a month I'm off before 2. It is a very nice lifestyle. As it is efficiently organized and run, the pay per hour is quite competitive. I also work less than 200 clinical days a year. That's why it was on the ROAD. Great jobs may be decreasing, but superior candidates will be able to find them.
One can work hard in PP, etc. running all day, 7a-6p, on call q5-7 etc. BUT the trade off is money. Those jobs should pay well north of $500k. If you're working PP hours for marginal pay, you're a sucker. They need to find better jobs.

 

[circulus vitios]

That's a bad academic job. I work in a large group at a 400+ bed children's hospital. We average one call a month and a weekend every other month.
7 to around 4 is the norm for most with a few scheduled late shifts a month that rarely go past 7. Several days a month I'm off before 2. It is a very nice lifestyle. As it is efficiently organized and run, the pay per hour is quite competitive. I also work less than 200 clinical days a year. That's why it was on the ROAD. Great jobs may be decreasing, but superior candidates will be able to find them.
One can work hard in PP, etc. running all day, 7a-6p, on call q5-7 etc. BUT the trade off is money. Those jobs should pay well north of $500k. If you're working PP hours for marginal pay, you're a sucker. They need to find better jobs.

So would you say that 50 hours a week plus an average of a few days call per month is more typical of gas jobs in PP and academia? What is a typical amount of vacation for PP, somewhere around 8 weeks?

 

[IlDestriero]

So would you say that 50 hours a week plus an average of a few days call per month is more typical of gas jobs in PP and academia? What is a typical amount of vacation for PP, somewhere around 8 weeks?

There's a tremendous amount of variability in anesthesia jobs. Call depends on how the facility is staffed and how many places the group covers. Home call at a place that only calls people in a 1-2 times a month is very different than call on busy OB floor or at a trauma center where you run 2 rooms all night long.
6-12 weeks vaca is what I have seen. 8 is probably average.