How is this even possible?

[Tin Man]

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Alllriiight, I contacted Stanford and Harvard (my dream school) and both of them said they're totally cool with CC credits 👍

but no word from yale yet.. :/

Good to hear.

 

[chman]

Here is what I think is the best plan, and is what I am doing;

Take the pre-reqs that are pretty standard no matter where you go; g-chem, math, physics. Save o-chem and bio for the four year. That way you get a head start, and like I said, the material covered in these courses are going to be the same pretty much everywhere, cc or four year. I think the main cation is to not complete all of one's pre-reqs at a cc, or to be a student at a four year and go back to a cc to take them because you think it's easier. Another point that is often overlooked; it is a really good idea to complete any sequences you start at the cc, ie if you start chem, finish it, start physics, finish it. Just MO. But for those that say it is the kiss of death to do some of your pre-reqs at the cc, there are plenty of people on here with acceptances that say otherwise (I hope to be one in a couple years!).

EDIT; I plan to take a year off for the MCAT. So yes, I think there is no way to do the pre-reqs at the four year and take the MCAT your junior year. But really, what is one more year to have a strong app and a good score!

 

[Tin Man]

EDIT; I plan to take a year off for the MCAT. So yes, I think there is no way to do the pre-reqs at the four year and take the MCAT your junior year. But really, what is one more year to have a strong app and a good score!

Whoa. A year? I wouldn't recommend this. Even a really good score isn't going to mean much if it takes you a year to prepare for the test, especially since the test is entirely made up of basic science review that you should already know.

You are going to have to deal with a lot denser material in a lot shorter time in med school. Never forget that the whole point of all these numbers, classes, and volunteer hours is to prove that you can handle the med school environment. Taking a year off for study might ensure you REALLY know your basic science, but a lot of it won't come up again in med school, and taking that much time says little for your ability to survive a medical school e vironment, regardless of your score.

Take a summer off, maybe a semester at most. But keep in mind that a lot of your competition studies over winter or an academically easier school year, so and still manage to do alright. It's not about memorizing equations, it's about implying concepts. If you have diffiulty doing that after a full summer of science review, an extra nine months is just going to be wasted time you could be using to strengthen other areas of your application.

 

[chman]

Whoa. A year? I wouldn't recommend this. Even a really good score isn't going to mean much if it takes you a year to prepare for the test, especially since the test is entirely made up of basic science review that you should already know.

You are going to have to deal with a lot denser material in a lot shorter time in med school. Never forget that the whole point of all these numbers, classes, and volunteer hours is to prove that you can handle the med school environment. Taking a year off for study might ensure you REALLY know your basic science, but a lot of it won't come up again in med school, and taking that much time says little for your ability to survive a medical school e vironment, regardless of your score.

Take a summer off, maybe a semester at most. But keep in mind that a lot of your competition studies over winter or an academically easier school year, so and still manage to do alright. It's not about memorizing equations, it's about implying concepts. If you have diffiulty doing that after a full summer of science review, an extra nine months is just going to be wasted time you could be using to strengthen other areas of your application.

Obviously I would be doing other things; working, volunteering, etc. A lot of people take a year off and I don't see anything wrong with it. Take one semester off? If you take one off you are going to be taking the whole year... I don't see the problem, nor do I see strengthening my app as showing weakness of my abilities as a student.

 

[Tin Man]

Obviously I would be doing other things; working, volunteering, etc. A lot of people take a year off and I don't see anything wrong with it. Take one semester off? If you take one off you are going to be taking the whole year... I don't see the problem, nor do I see strengthening my app as showing weakness of my abilities as a student.

Taking one semester off is not taking off the whole year unless you're at a fairly small college. Every school I looked at offered the basic science courses year 'round, without alternating semesters.

And a lot of people take a year off of school after they've either applied and been accepted, which means they don't need the school, and take a year to just relax, or after they've been rejected, to go do an internship or something that schooling students generally can't do.

I'm not accusing you have having weakness as a student. What I am saying is that if I saw a year-long break where you were not taking any classes, and then an MCAT, then it would indicate you weren't confident in your ability to do well without that year long break. At least don't mention it in the interview.

At the end of the day, as I said, the pre-med courses aren't required because you're going to be using special relativity or doing Diels-Alder reactions every day in medical school. It's designed to test how well you learn difficult, complex material in a relatively short amount of time. Likewise, the MCAT is not designed to test your ability to regurgitate material. If you've ever looked at the questions, many times, the equations are actually GIVEN to you. It's designed to test how well you apply all the things you were supposed to have learned to a "real life" situation. There aren't many questions on the test that just ask you for the pH given a bunch of numbers. It asks you to look at a situation, and use the knowledge you have to make sense of it, just as you would have to as a doctor. Sometimes, this means even working with things that you should NOT have covered, just to ensure that you can't rely on memorized information.

A year of study doesn't make you better at applying science than three hours a day for three months would. The goal is to remember the basic concepts, and then just keep doing practice problems until you understand the format of the test. If you're taking a year to study for the MCAT, that just screams "memorization", which will be almost useless for the MCAT.

And, as I said, you're going to be expected to be able to absorb a TON of information and be tested over it within a short time period in medical school. While that doesn't necessarily mean you should take on the MCAT cold-turkey, it does mean that your study habits might be questionable to an admissions committee if you take a whole year to study for a test that the vast majority of pre-meds take less than a semester to prepare for.

You can listen to me or you can choose not to. It doesn't really make any difference to me. I'm just saying that if I were you, and I had a whole year to play with in strengthening my application, I would, if I were not a science major, take some upper-division science classes, especially in subject areas I may have struggled with initially (for me, it was physics). Otherwise, I would go do something that requires a lot of free time, such as an in-depth research paper, internship, or even joining the Peace Corps. Just SOMETHING that gets you to stand out, because I highly, highly doubt that your MCAT score is going to be THAT much better after a year of studying than it would be after a few months of studying, and you might as well take that luxurious free time you have and do something really special with it.

I'm really not trying to be offensive or anything. But like I said, it's your application. If you want to study for a year, feel free. If you're right, you'll rock the MCAT, and hopefully that will be enough. If I'm right, less competition for the rest of the pre-meds.

But I really hope you don't take a year off to study, and suck on the MCAT. That would be, like, a whole year of your pre-med career wasted. That would definitely suck.

 

[chman]

Taking one semester off is not taking off the whole year unless you're at a fairly small college. Every school I looked at offered the basic science courses year 'round, without alternating semesters.

And a lot of people take a year off of school after they've either applied and been accepted, which means they don't need the school, and take a year to just relax, or after they've been rejected, to go do an internship or something that schooling students generally can't do.

I'm not accusing you have having weakness as a student. What I am saying is that if I saw a year-long break where you were not taking any classes, and then an MCAT, then it would indicate you weren't confident in your ability to do well without that year long break. At least don't mention it in the interview.

At the end of the day, as I said, the pre-med courses aren't required because you're going to be using special relativity or doing Diels-Alder reactions every day in medical school. It's designed to test how well you learn difficult, complex material in a relatively short amount of time. Likewise, the MCAT is not designed to test your ability to regurgitate material. If you've ever looked at the questions, many times, the equations are actually GIVEN to you. It's designed to test how well you apply all the things you were supposed to have learned to a "real life" situation. There aren't many questions on the test that just ask you for the pH given a bunch of numbers. It asks you to look at a situation, and use the knowledge you have to make sense of it, just as you would have to as a doctor. Sometimes, this means even working with things that you should NOT have covered, just to ensure that you can't rely on memorized information.

A year of study doesn't make you better at applying science than three hours a day for three months would. The goal is to remember the basic concepts, and then just keep doing practice problems until you understand the format of the test. If you're taking a year to study for the MCAT, that just screams "memorization", which will be almost useless for the MCAT.

And, as I said, you're going to be expected to be able to absorb a TON of information and be tested over it within a short time period in medical school. While that doesn't necessarily mean you should take on the MCAT cold-turkey, it does mean that your study habits might be questionable to an admissions committee if you take a whole year to study for a test that the vast majority of pre-meds take less than a semester to prepare for.

You can listen to me or you can choose not to. It doesn't really make any difference to me. I'm just saying that if I were you, and I had a whole year to play with in strengthening my application, I would, if I were not a science major, take some upper-division science classes, especially in subject areas I may have struggled with initially (for me, it was physics). Otherwise, I would go do something that requires a lot of free time, such as an in-depth research paper, internship, or even joining the Peace Corps. Just SOMETHING that gets you to stand out, because I highly, highly doubt that your MCAT score is going to be THAT much better after a year of studying than it would be after a few months of studying, and you might as well take that luxurious free time you have and do something really special with it.

I'm really not trying to be offensive or anything. But like I said, it's your application. If you want to study for a year, feel free. If you're right, you'll rock the MCAT, and hopefully that will be enough. If I'm right, less competition for the rest of the pre-meds.

But I really hope you don't take a year off to study, and suck on the MCAT. That would be, like, a whole year of your pre-med career wasted. That would definitely suck.

Dude. Ok let me try this again. First off, maybe I chose my words poorly by saying a year off for the MCAT. As I said in my above post, I will obviously be doing other things.

As I also said in my above post, I am only doing g-chem and physics at my cc. That means I have o-chem and bio to do at the four year. That also means that I most likely won't be done with my pre-med courses until sometime in my senior year. I don't think it would be a good idea for me to take the MCAT without having all my basic sciences done, do you? Now I will probably end up taking the MCAT long before it is time for me to apply, but since med-school only starts once a year I don't really have too much of a choice in the matter now do I? It would be nice if I could jump in halfway through the next year, but it just ain't going to happen. The fact is that I have talked with multiple people on here who have taken a year break with no consequences whatsoever. Thanks for the advice, but I think I'll take my chances with a hopefully good MCAT score, more volunteering, more research, and more money. Maybe you should consider taking a year off...Cheers.

 

[Tin Man]

Dude. Ok let me try this again. First off, maybe I chose my words poorly by saying a year off for the MCAT. As I said in my above post, I will obviously be doing other things.

Eh, irrelevant to the point I was making, unless you plan to join the Peace Corps. Nobody says they thought you were going to be at home sitting in a chair for 18 hours a day studying and peeing into a bottle. Obviously you'd have to be doing other things. What you'd have to overcome is the justification the adcoms would have in their heads for you taking that much time off of school. But whatever.

As I also said in my above post, I am only doing g-chem and physics at my cc. That means I have o-chem and bio to do at the four year. That also means that I most likely won't be done with my pre-med courses until sometime in my senior year. I don't think it would be a good idea for me to take the MCAT without having all my basic sciences done, do you? Now I will probably end up taking the MCAT long before it is time for me to apply, but since med-school only starts once a year I don't really have too much of a choice in the matter now do I? It would be nice if I could jump in halfway through the next year, but it just ain't going to happen. The fact is that I have talked with multiple people on here who have taken a year break with no consequences whatsoever. Thanks for the advice, but I think I'll take my chances with a hopefully good MCAT score, more volunteering, more research, and more money. Maybe you should consider taking a year off...Cheers.

No, I guess I'm still confused, because I can't figure out what you're trying to do based on this post.If you take your general chem and physics at the cc, at the same time, it will take you one year. Again, if you take your ochem and bio together, that would only take one year. Most pre-meds don't spread their science classes out over four years, not only because it takes so freaking long and most people apply for med school in their junior year, but also because you should be able to take more than one science course at a time. I can't see any reason, based on this post, why it would take you until "sometime in your senior year" to be done with your pre-reqs. There's no rule that you can't take cc and university classes together. Most people do that to have their pre-reqs done before their junior year ends, so they can apply at the same time most other people are. There's nothing wrong with applying later, I guess, but you DO have a choice in it. There's no rule that classes can't be mixed, or that you can't leave the cc early and move to the university as soon as possible to get the pre-reqs done, like I ended up doing. Granted, took a LOT of classes, even over the summer, to get as much as I could out of the cc before moving, but the point is still valid.

In the same vein, I couldn't really nail down, based on your post, when you wanted to take the MCAT. I would assume that because you said you couldn't do it without your basic sciences (a wise statement) that you would have been planning on waiting until the end of your senior year, which is the time you apparently think you'll be done with your science classes. But then you said that you'd likely be taking your MCAT long before it's time to apply, which gives me the impression that you plan on taking the MCAT BEFORE you're done with school, which would mean before your science classes.

In either situation... taking the MCAT a few months before it's time to apply is no big deal. Taking the MCAT a couple of years before it's time to apply IS a big deal. Your MCAT score is only good for three years, which is why most people take it as soon as they can before they apply. I would imagine taking the MCAT again after three years of rejections and not keeping up with the basic sciences would be a real drag.

You can try to explain your situation if you care enough, but I'm not sitting here posting for my own amusement, or to try to make you feel bad about your choices. Like I said, it's your medical school career at stake one way or the other. I'm just posting my perspective on the issue as I understand it (which I apparently do not). Don't get touchy because my opinion clashes with your plan. I'm presenting my opinion here much more civilly than is generally found on these boards.

 

[ceng2doc]

Alllriiight, I contacted Stanford and Harvard (my dream school) and both of them said they're totally cool with CC credits 👍

but no word from yale yet.. :/

Don't fall into the pitfall: they may accept, however may also look down to them as they favor the credits taken at a 4-year university.

I'd rather ask them again if they would look down to your CC credits when compared to those of the other applicants 4-year university credits or not. If there's a distinction, then you're gonna go down, if this is a competition among thousands.

 

[casillas]

This is what I had to do for prereqs:

CC
1 year bio
entire physics series
entire gchem series
english comp
(these were all required to transfer to UC)

UC
entire ochem series (some UCs require this before transfer, but I was able to get in without it)
1 writing class
all my upper division bio class, obviously

.

I know someone who did exactly the classes mentioned above, went into a UC as a biology major so the UC needed him to have finished all the pre-requisites. He is now a first year at UCSF and got into other schools.

I think med schools understand that you have to go to CCs sometimes I think it's okay to do as many classes as you can at a CC. the important thing is that when you transfer you take upper division science courses to show that you can swim in the big pond too.

 

[chman]

Tin Man;9581467]

Eh, irrelevant to the point I was making, unless you plan to join the Peace Corps. Nobody says they thought you were going to be at home sitting in a chair for 18 hours a day studying and peeing into a bottle. Obviously you'd have to be doing other things. What you'd have to overcome is the justification the adcoms would have in their heads for you taking that much time off of school. But whatever.

Actually it is relevant. When/if adcoms ask about the year off I will have plenty of things to say.

No, I guess I'm still confused, because I can't figure out what you're trying to do based on this post.If you take your general chem and physics at the cc, at the same time, it will take you one year.

Without boring you with the logistics; I am a sophomore now. I did not decide I would be pre-med right away, therefore did not start the pre-reqs right away. My cc runs sciences on a strict sequence, meaning that I can not just jump in on the first class of, lets say bio or chem, whenever I want. It has to be in the fall. Basically the timing did not work out. So I will have g-chem and physics done (you already knew that). Now, could I cram bio and o-chem into my junior year at the university? Sure. Am I going to? No. I thin that would not be smart being at a new school and while taking the upper divisions for my major.

Most pre-meds don't spread their science classes out over four years,

No, most don't. Most take at least three though, which is exactly what I am doing.

Most people do that to have their pre-reqs done before their junior year ends, so they can apply at the same time most other people are.

And here we come to the heart of your argument. You assume that just because most apply their junior year that it is the "right" way of doing it. You seem to just be going with your gut on this, or what you think an adcom might think. You have not provided any statistics or causational evidence, nor even any correlational or anecdotal evidence for that matter. I think Mr. Lebouski can sum it up better than I can:

[YOUTUBE]pWdd6_ZxX8c[/YOUTUBE]

There's nothing wrong with applying later,

This we agree on. In fact, the average age of medical students has been steadily rising, which means, you guessed it, many people are not apply right away. Go figure.

I guess, but you DO have a choice in it. There's no rule that classes can't be mixed, or that you can't leave the cc early and move to the university as soon as possible to get the pre-reqs done, like I ended up doing. Granted, took a LOT of classes, even over the summer, to get as much as I could out of the cc before moving, but the point is still valid.

Did I mention that I work pretty much full time too. No thanks, I'd rather not kill myself.

In the same vein, I couldn't really nail down, based on your post, when you wanted to take the MCAT.
I would assume that because you said you couldn't do it without your basic sciences (a wise statement) that you would have been planning on waiting until the end of your senior year, which is the time you apparently think you'll be done with your science classes. But then you said that you'd likely be taking your MCAT long before it's time to apply, which gives me the impression that you plan on taking the MCAT BEFORE you're done with school, which would mean before your science classes.

By long before I apply I meant fall or winter, then apply in the summer.

In either situation... taking the MCAT a few months before it's time to apply is no big deal. Taking the MCAT a couple of years before it's time to apply IS a big deal. Your MCAT score is only good for three years, which is why most people take it as soon as they can before they apply. I would imagine taking the MCAT again after three years of rejections and not keeping up with the basic sciences would be a real drag.

What are you talking about? Three years? I said a year off, lets not get carried away.

You can try to explain your situation if you care enough,

Ya know, normally I really wouldn't bother. I would just let you "win." But, unfortunately, many people read this forum (especially newbs), and take much of it as fact. I would just like to encourage them to check things out for themselves.

Like I said, it's your medical school career
at stake one way or the other.

Any kind of source here would be great.

I'm just posting my perspective on the issue as I understand it (which I apparently do not). Don't get touchy because my opinion clashes with your plan.

Not agreeing with you is not being touchy. Let me say, I value that you took time to write what you believe to be right, but like I said, I simply disagree.

 

[Tin Man]

Point counterpoint is usually reserved for debate. But I'll address this quickly, since I'm not looking for a debate.

Actually it is relevant. When/if adcoms ask about the year off I will have plenty of things to say.

The key isn't to talk about all the stuff you were doing. The key is to be able to answer why you felt it necessary to take a year between your science courses and your MCAT. If you can answer in such a way that proves you didn't actually NEED that much time to prepare in order to get a good score, great.

Without boring you with the logistics; I am a sophomore now. I did not decide I would be pre-med right away, therefore did not start the pre-reqs right away. My cc runs sciences on a strict sequence, meaning that I can not just jump in on the first class of, lets say bio or chem, whenever I want. It has to be in the fall. Basically the timing did not work out. So I will have g-chem and physics done (you already knew that). Now, could I cram bio and o-chem into my junior year at the university? Sure. Am I going to? No. I thin that would not be smart being at a new school and while taking the upper divisions for my major.

Fair enough, although I would disagree with feeling like it would be stupid to do the bio and o-chem together. Neither of those classes really should pressure you when taken together. One of my semesters was ochem II, physics II, and biology of organisms, all with labs, plus a language class. It was tough, but doable. Two classes is pretty standard, and if you tell the adcoms that you felt it might be too hard to take the two together at a new university, that might cause problems. After all, going to med school is like taking six hard science courses all together... at a new school... after being at an easier school.. See what I mean?

And here we come to the heart of your argument. You assume that just because most apply their junior year that it is the "right" way of doing it. You seem to just be going with your gut on this, or what you think an adcom might think. You have not provided any statistics or causational evidence, nor even any correlational or anecdotal evidence for that matter. I think Mr. Lebouski can sum it up better than I can:

Actually, I'm not really "assuming" anything. I could absolutely be wrong about what I'm saying, and if that's true, then I apologize. But I'm not telling you what "the right" way of doing something is. I'm telling you what I know most pre-meds (in my world) seem to do, and that's your competition. Whether or not it is the right way of doing things is irrelevant. What I would be more concerned about is if it looks like you are taking things slower or making things easier than you competition is. If so, you may not look as battle-hardened as your competition, which puts you at a disadvantage.

Did I mention that I work pretty much full time too. No thanks, I'd rather not kill myself.

No, you didn't, which would have changed things a little. But not by much. Once again, you have competition in the same boat, and they're doing a regular college courseload (I'm that competition 🙂). If you feel you can't manage it, it doesn't mean you're less smart or less capable of being a doctor. But it does make you seem less confident. You're applying to go to a school that is going to be significantly more stressful than any excuses you come up with for taking an easier courseload. The better you can show you function under stress, the more qualified and ready for medical school you will seem.

What are you talking about? Three years? I said a year off, lets not get carried away.

I was talking about if you were planning on taking the MCAT before your science, which would be about halfway through your college courses.

Ya know, normally I really wouldn't bother. I would just let you "win." But, unfortunately, many people read this forum (especially newbs), and take much of it as fact. I would just like to encourage them to check things out for themselves.

Dude, I'm not trying to "beat" you. I've always said that I am simply offering my opinion and perspective of your situation, and never said that I couldn't be wrong about it. Basically, I'm looking at this from the point of view of someone who has interviewed hundreds of people for positions that require very similar attributes in terms of motivation and willingness to take on a fairly stressful load. I know what I would look for, and a year off before the MCAT makes you look like you needed a REALLY long time to study in comparison to many of the other pre-meds who use their winter or summer break to study. I'm really just throwing things out there for you to think about, and for any other person who's reading to think about. No harm or "victory" required. 🙂

 

[chman]

Hey, fair enough. I think that my transcripts will show that I was not taking the easy road...