How late can I apply in the cycle?

[Jc2008]

Hey everyone, this is my first question on here. Been a reader for a long time and now finally a member. I have kind of a different question here. I am a non-traditional post bac pre med- in my 30s. I am just finishing up the pre-reqs to apply to MD or DO program . I was originally going to wait until next application cycle to apply but realized that I will be done with my pre req classes this summer and that I could technically take the MCAT in september and still apply to a few schools this cycle. Here's the deal, I know the common advice is wait until the next cycle and do the application right. However, there is a slight chance that if I wait until next cycle- I won't apply (I'd like to apply as soon as possible so I finish my residency before I'm 40; im 33 now. ).

So my question goes- am I completely wasting my time applying late this cycle? To give you some background I have a 3.9 science GPA and 3.9 total GPA from a state school, a few other graduate degrees which will shape how ADcoms look at my app (MBA/JD) ,but little clinical experience (only about 20 hours job shadow). I was planning on doing my clinical experience this year and applying next summer. But I am now considering applying to 1 or 2 lower ranked schools this cycle (even without the experience) and seeing what happens. I figured it's a no lose scenario - If i don't get in, these 2 schools I would not be reapplying to anyway next cycle.

How low exactly are my chances of getting in this cycle? I would be taking MCAT this september (late) , but my AAMCAS application would be done before then. Any other danger from applying with a less than complete application this cycle as a dry run that I'm not aware of?

Thanks!

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[2Pints]

How would you explain wanting your MD/DO without the clinical experience?

 

[Jc2008]

I would be using my (unusual) background to explain it in the essay. My parents are doctors, grandparents were doctors, so I've basically bee around medicine all my life so I know it's what I want to do. Obtaining the clinical experience is just sort of a formality for me. I wasn't able to volunteer up to know because I don't have my permanent residency yet, but will later in the year (another long story that feeds into my application essay). I realize its not ideal, but what do I have to lose by applying if I won't reapply to these schools next time? Is there a way for schools to know what other schools you previously applied to and whether you got in or not?

 

[2Pints]

I would be using my (unusual) background to explain it in the essay. My parents are doctors, grandparents were doctors, so I've basically bee around medicine all my life so I know it's what I want to do. Obtaining the clinical experience is just sort of a formality for me. I wasn't able to volunteer up to know because I don't have my permanent residency yet, but will later in the year (another long story that feeds into my application essay). I realize its not ideal, but what do I have to lose by applying if I won't reapply to these schools next time? Is there a way for schools to know what other schools you previously applied to and whether you got in or not?

If it's just because of an age thing I would wait. This process is stressful. Feel oping your personal statement, getting your work/activities section to flow correctly, making sure your LORs are in on time, transcripts don't get lost (like one I mine did), etc. Not sure what your current employment situation is like but studying for the MCAT isn't cheap (materials/practice tests) and it's time consuming. It's been a huge struggle managing work and studying. The application process will only take you away from studying.

Make sure whatever you put in your PS doesn't sound like an excuse for not having everything else expected of other applicants. There are a lot of people who have family members who are physicians but I don't know if that's a solid foundation to answer "Why medicine?" without proof of actually interacting with patients.

I don't think schools know if you applied to other schools. I think they only know if you applied to their school. Sounds like you are pretty dead set on applying this cycle...

 

[Law2Doc]

I would be using my (unusual) background to explain it in the essay. My parents are doctors, grandparents were doctors, so I've basically bee around medicine all my life so I know it's what I want to do. Obtaining the clinical experience is just sort of a formality for me. I wasn't able to volunteer up to know because I don't have my permanent residency yet, but will later in the year (another long story that feeds into my application essay). I realize its not ideal, but what do I have to lose by applying if I won't reapply to these schools next time? Is there a way for schools to know what other schools you previously applied to and whether you got in or not?

First -- in my experience med school adcoms HATE when people try to use family members being in medicine as a proxy for you "having been around medicine all your life" and knowing what you are getting into -- bad bad idea. You need to personally get your hands dirty. No, i suspect it's not just a formality for you, it's a necessity. Adcoms will throw out your application quickly if you even suggest that you've "been around medicine" all your life and so you think that should be enough for them. Actually for children and grandkids of doctors it's probably considered even more essential to show you aren't trying to hitch your application onto their experiences and have your own independent ones. Plus, adcoms would assume your family would be great connections to line up good clinical and shadowing experiences with their colleagues and others, so it comes off really badly(lazy?) if you didn't even bother to leverage that, while someone else without the connections really worked the phones lining things up. So no, you probably need this, and I'm telling you that the way you dismissed it in this thread is exactly what you don't want to suggest in your application.

Second, in any rolling admissions process, those who apply toward the end of the cycle have worse odds. not impossible, but worse.

Third, You really don't want to be a reapplicant. It's never "no lose". This process penalizes you for winging it, just to see what happens. You want to line your ducks in a row and do it right. One shot, one kill. Becoming a reapplicant means every school next cycle knows you applied somewhere and didn't get in, so the focus becomes what was wrong with you the first time and how have you improved. (yes schools will know you applied before -- AMCAS and most secondaries ask -- or at least they did when I was an applicant. Just not where). Not insurmountable, but better to be the guy everyone wants than the guy who other schools apparently didn't want last time, for reasons unknown. You basically create a red flag you wouldn't have otherwise.

For these reasons I think you need to wait a year and need to bulk up your clinical experiences.

 

[QofQuimica]

Agree with L2D.

OP, I really hate seeing smart people (you) do stupid things (applying when not ready). You know that saying about how insanity is repeating your own mistakes and expecting a different result? It's no different when you repeat other people's mistakes. Applying this year would be a major strategic mistake that anyone who reads SDN for even a few weeks would know better than to make. It wastes time and money; it severely limits your options; and with no clinical experience, your app isn't even competitive right now anyway. A significant percentage of applicants are the offspring of physicians. That doesn't make your situation unique. Also. your artificial time limit is ridiculous. You don't turn into a pumpkin if you're still in training at 40.

In the med school admissions game, it is better to do things right than to do them over. Stick to your original timeline, and start getting some more clinical experience ASAP.

 

[Goro]

1000% agree with my learned colleagues here. OP, apply once, and apply right.

Agree with L2D.

OP, I really hate seeing smart people (you) do stupid things (applying when not ready). You know that saying about how insanity is repeating your own mistakes and expecting a different result? It's no different when you repeat other people's mistakes. Applying this year would be a major strategic mistake that anyone who reads SDN for even a few weeks would know better than to make. It wastes time and money; it severely limits your options; and with no clinical experience, your app isn't even competitive right now anyway. A significant percentage of applicants are the offspring of physicians. That doesn't make your situation unique. Also. your artificial time limit is ridiculous. You don't turn into a pumpkin if you're still in training at 40.

In the med school admissions game, it is better to do things right than to do them over. Stick to your original timeline, and start getting some more clinical experience ASAP.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I agree with L2D, Q and Goro that you should not apply without any clinical experience and that is more important for you coming from a family of physicians (theoretically, you should be better connected than someone like say, me, that has parents that barely graduated high school and grandparents who didn't).

I was told that the latest you can apply in a cycle is with a September MCAT, as long as you verify your AMCAS prior and pre-write secondaries (but you'd still be at somewhat of a disadvantage). Of course, this would vary between MD and DO, because the DO cycle lasts longer so September is not as big of a disadvantage for DO schools.

Full disclosure: I am looking into applying with the above time frame, but I'm aiming at my state schools (SUNYs) or DO only.

 

[kraskadva]

Here's an idea OP, since you're gung ho to get started.
Over the next year, while you're working on your clinical experiences and MCAT, open AMCAS, get all the essay prompts and start writing your personal statement and work/activities blurbs.
You could also pull down secondary prompts from SDN for the schools you're interested in applying to and write those essays as well.
That way when the cycle starts next year, you have a fully fleshed out app, ready to be pasted in the first day AMCAS opens and secondaries you can turn around in 24 hours. You'd have a smoother, less stressful cycle and hear back from most schools far sooner. You'd also likely get far better results than with a rushed, late, half-***ed application this year.

 

[threesparrows]

I agree with what's been said above but just wanted to add this thought:

Since you already have an MBA and JD and are changing course again, why would a medical school think you are serious about becoming a practicing physician?
You have to make the case that you are not a 'degree collector'.
Clinical experience is essential for you in order to back up your claim of wanting to practice medicine.

 

[NonTradJp]

As another perspective, I'm a nontrad applying right now. I honestly did not know how involved the application process is before I began applying. I tried to read up on the topic but before doing it myself I did not know what I didn't know. So in addition to the great reasons above, I feel that you would need to rush through the process and will be unsatisfied with the result. I even wish I knew that I could access the application last year to see it without applying so I would know what is expected. But since I did not know, I did not know. And in your case, how familiar with the application process? I would not recommend getting started on it at this point, but to instead prepare for the personal statements and secondary essays over the next few months and apply at start of next cycle. Also get yourself the LoR's on-hand or on a letter service at the start of 2015. If I knew, I would have done all this the year before.

 

[avivace]

I'm also a nontrad in my 30s and applied last year after taking the September MCAT. Don't do it. The process is almost certainly more time consuming than you think it is (or than it was a generation ago), and with rolling admissions your chances of getting in with a late application aren't very good. After two interviews failed to lead to an acceptance, I was also told by an admissions director that clinical experience and an early application are important factors in admissions decisions. If I knew then what I know now, I would have waited and saved my time and money for the next cycle.

 

[lawyer_doc]

.

 

[avivace]

It's difficult to say what would have happened if I had applied earlier. My stats and ECs seemed in line with what I knew about the schools I applied to, but, as the rejection letters pointed out, far more qualified people apply than can be accepted. If I was guessing, I'd say that anyone who is interviewed has a chance at a seat, but the chance is less for those interviewing at the end of the season. The whole process is something like gambling, and timing is one of the few factors that is relatively easy to control.

 

[Zelda840]

I'm also a nontrad in my 30s and applied last year after taking the September MCAT. Don't do it.

Same here, and I concur.