How long after DO sumbmission on average should you expect to get a notification as an outlier?

[deleted876933]

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[paradoxic_toxic]

It is incredibly frustrating to have silence for this long, but patience is needed. There's no way to predict when you'll hear back, so you can either hear back from them tomorrow or in April. After Thanksgiving, have the mindset of a reapplicant until you're actually sitting on an acceptance.

 

[Dr panda]

DO acceptance rate is about 37 percent, that means roughly 2/3 of applicants don’t get in.
Each school must reject 80% of applicants without an interview.
“All applicants must assume they will be rejected” - @gonnif
It is sad to hear that you didn’t get any II yet but the cycle is not over yet, just wait.

 

[deleted876933]

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[Dr panda]

So I am confused about what constitutes improving an application. I am continuing to participate at my local homeless shelter. I am very involved and go above what my duties are and will get a great letter from my coordinator for next year's cycle. I am also continuing to shadow a family medicine physician at a low-income clinic. I have a teaching job with Kaplan and work in a restaurant. I am a father and the primary caregiver, so I don't know what else I could feasibly do. Or is that all enough? @gonnif

Just to clarify I am waiting on 22 MD applications I have 13 DOs as well (The DOs have been submitted between Oct. 15 - Nov 15. Should I continue to apply to DO schools? At this point, I have so many essays I can just copy paste and edit for most apps.

You need to enhance your app in case you will need to reapply. There might be red flags on your app - bad lors, IA that you didn’t even know about (that happens). Just keep patience - the cycle is not over yet, and be prepared to reapply next year as early as possible. There is nothing wrong with your app (assuming everything you are saying is true) but the process is extremely unpredictable, remember, majority of applicants don’t get in, and roughly 20% of those who get in are reapplicants.

 

[deleted876933]

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[LeaveNoTrace]

IF your criminal record was expunged, you don’t need to declare it on your primary application IIRC. @Goro could offer better advice

 

[Dr panda]

1) I have red flags and a criminal record but that was 13 years ago all misdemeanors and no recidivism and its expunged I declared it of course though.
2) I have academic probation from 13 years ago but that is just cause I flunked out when I was 18.
3) I felt the experience and 300 hours of clinical service was worth having only a 2.5-month tenure at the position.

Now the picture is more clear.
1) That is my personal opinion, I am not an adcom, so you can disregard it: if you have ever committed a crime you shall never be able to become a medical professional of any kind let alone a doctor. If I was an adcom and saw a criminal charge I would trash the application without reading.
2) Academic probation might be a red flag.
3) that is not good, the longer the span the better, 300 over a couple years would be better since it shows long term commitment (not a big deal though given you are non trad).

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

I mean. You’d trash the application of a guy who got a drunk and disorderly charge at 18, went to college, served in the military, and then is applying to medical school at 30 with over a decade of good conduct behind him and excellent grades? Felonies, yeah, it is game over. But if you have a single misdemeanor conviction and you’ve led an otherwise exemplary life for 5-10 years post incident you have a shot.

 

[Dr panda]

I mean. You’d trash the application of a guy who got a drunk and disorderly charge at 18, went to college, served in the military, and then is applying to medical school at 30 with over a decade of good conduct behind him and excellent grades? Felonies, yeah, it is game over. But if you have a single misdemeanor conviction and you’ve led an otherwise exemplary life for 5-10 years post incident you have a shot.

Depends on what was done - if it is a crime against another person, no chance.

 

[candbgirl]

Are you shadowing at the low income clinic or volunteering helping out the patients? If shadowing stop and find something else to do with direct patient contact. You only need 50 hours of shadowing.

 

[Goro]

Now the picture is more clear.
1) That is my personal opinion, I am not an adcom, so you can disregard it: if you have ever committed a crime you shall never be able to become a medical professional of any kind let alone a doctor. If I was an adcom and saw a criminal charge I would trash the application without reading.
2) Academic probation might be a red flag.
3) that is not good, the longer the span the better, 300 over a couple years would be better since it shows long term commitment (not a big deal though given you are non trad).

Regarding #1, some of us realize that redemption is a thing, and that things that happened a long time ago, especially when one was a teen are not the ame as something that happened, say, last, when one is supposed to know. better.

In general, Adcoms may be more forgiving of crimes against property vs crimes against persons. Acts of violence are indeed app killers.

OP, this is a process where one needs patience. You might get an II on Monday, or in April.


So I am confused about what constitutes improving an application.
Filling in whatever gaps are there, or removing deficits. These include getting:

more good grades
in more clinical exposure or service to others less fortunate than yourself

 

[mwsapphire]

It is incredibly frustrating to have silence for this long, but patience is needed. There's no way to predict when you'll hear back, so you can either hear back from them tomorrow or in April. After Thanksgiving, have the mindset of a reapplicant until you're actually sitting on an acceptance.

I'd say for DO the T-giving guideline sounds flimsy- since the DO cycle runs longer, ( until may rather than until march), then the " most II's go out by t-giving" likely doesn't hold true.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Depends on what was done - if it is a crime against another person, no chance.

Yeah, I was thinking something more like ‘got caught pulling a stop sign out of the ground’ or ‘burned a couch after a party and got busted for it’. Crimes against people, even if it was a bar fight at 18 for some reason, are a lot harder to redeem.

 

[deleted876933]

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[deleted876933]

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[Dr panda]

I know plenty of doctors many of them party and use illicit substances on their off time.

That is an awful excuse. Do never ever say that on an interview. Different adcoms will view your case differently, it really depends. There is nothing else to say at this point, just be patient, your app is otherwise good.
"If you have a felony in your background (especially a crime against a person), or multiple offenses, especially DUI, stop right now. Your medical career is over." - reputable black cat owner

 

[deleted876933]

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[Dr panda]

1) Considering the inequality in enforcement
2) I understand DUI is a serious offense and it does say something about my suitability for this profession. I regret I was ever so selfish or stupid, no excuse. I made an awful decision.
3) I would only argue that with distance and my growth after the offense it is less of an indication of my character or decision making.

1) Leave it for SPF (oh yeah, white guys definitely face a lot of inequality in LE)
2) That is better.
3) You are not in the right place (some forum on the internet), not with the right person (I am just a random guy somewhere in the web), and especially not in the right position to argue about anything, med schools don't have to show any sympathy to anyone. I repeat: just wait, your app is otherwise good, I have no idea how the cycle will work for you. Keep working on improving your app, be prepared to reapply, understand that you
I) are reinventor (though a lot of schools reward it)
II) have a criminal record
III) applied close to the end of a reasonable time span for applying
IV) have overall just 37% chance of getting into a DO school
V) may have bad essays

 

[deleted876933]

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[Dr panda]

Dude, I am not talking about me. I am a trainwreck and do not expect or think I deserve anything. I have thought I was going to come up with nothing but had to pull the trigger on my dream or I would always wonder the rest of my life. I am just saying I thought your comment that you would trash any application with a criminal record was ****ty. I am not an ideal candidate and never will be. I was just commenting on that specific mentality that you were directing towards a whole group of people.
I have had nothing but a blessed life and was alluding to the fact that my privilege as a white male has a lot to do with the limited effect my criminal record and the punishments I received have had on my life. The fact that I am where I am after the choices I have made and other people have not had a similarly easy navigating law enforcement and the justice system is why your statement is kinda callous. Just my opinion. For what it's worth I appreciate you taking the time to give me advice.

Please leave that race/gender discussions for spf.
I have personal reasons to deem that people with a criminal record should never be allowed to touch me, my kids, my wife, my parents, etc. You have every legal and moral right to find this immoral, cruel, heartless, and debatable. I am not pointing at you in particular, I don’t represent medical school admissions, and I don’t make any admission decisions. What you probably lack is some patience, as LizzyM pointed out - admission cycle is equivalent to a trip to Mars, so just wait. Being too nervous is not a good trait either, it is a scary and unpredictable process, but keep patience. I am just trying to explain you why you should not be over optimistic nor complaint about having a bad cycle. Each school gets ~5000 apps for ~200 spots, read it as: there are 24 other people behind the door, most of them have good grades and don’t have any criminal record, they also include URMs, veterans, athletes, and legacies, yet 20 of them will be silently rejected without an interview, and 1-2 more after, why should the school accept you? Becoming a doctor in the US is one of the toughest journeys in the World with no guarantees.

 

[deleted876933]

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[candbgirl]

I understand that and once again I appreciate your willingness to engage in a debate. The lack of patience is more that I just feel like I am wasting my family's time and money and if I am dead in the water I got to suck it up and move on precisely because I am not special and I know that I am owed nothing from this process and realize I am at the back of the line. I did not anticipate how low not being productive financially would make me feel with a child to help support. I do not think I deserve a spot, but I do think I would make a good physician. IDK I guess I am just venting, and you are right this is not probably the place for it.

You seem to have done pretty much all you can do to follow your dreams. But understand the whole process is a crap shoot and nobody is guaranteed anything. And everyone has to just accept that premise. You’ve shot your shot, now you have to see what happens. Remember that each cycle only 40% of applicants are accepted to MD schools. Of that 40% around 20% receive one acceptance and 20% receive two or more. That means around 60% are rejected. Including candidates with stellar applications : those with near perfect stories, ECs , supporting evidence and no red flags. And now I’m seeing that only 37% of applicants are accepted to DO schools. These are tough numbers to deal with but realize you aren’t alone in your questions and frustrations. Not everyone gets to be a doctor.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

@Goro: Didn’t you know of some applicants that had multiple DUIs when they were 18 and successfully applied 5, 10, even 15 years down the road? In addition, OP’s had the charges dismissed; IIRC if charges were dismissed they don’t have to be disclosed on the AMCAS primary. A decade and a half of exemplary behavior might well serve to redeem OP. Guy could’ve gotten busted driving drunk with a few beers in the car at 18.

 

[deleted1001426]

@Goro: In addition, OP’s had the charges dismissed; IIRC if charges were dismissed they don’t have to be disclosed on the AMCAS primary.

OP didnt have to declare it since it was dismissed but the issue is that he did and as "unfair" as it may be, its highly possible that he's being overlooked by some schools this cycle because of it.

 

[Goro]

@Goro: Didn’t you know of some applicants that had multiple DUIs when they were 18 and successfully applied 5, 10, even 15 years down the road? In addition, OP’s had the charges dismissed; IIRC if charges were dismissed they don’t have to be disclosed on the AMCAS primary. A decade and a half of exemplary behavior might well serve to redeem OP. Guy could’ve gotten busted driving drunk with a few beers in the car at 18.

My school has interviewed a fair number of people with a DUI in the past. The longer the time between the transgression and applying,t he better. And owning the transgression as well.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Yeah, OP's decade-old DUI and MIP, gotten when 18 and presumably much less mature than he is now, shouldn't be an app-killer...but he will need to be a little better than applicants that don't do those things.

 

[deleted876933]

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[deleted859689]

It is not that clear. While the charges are dismissed if you read the amcas disclosure it mentions specifically to report anything that you have ever entered a plea of no contest, which is a requirement to entering diversion to start the process of dismissal. Also, the background checks that schools do will find a diverted DUI they never go away from federal records. I have had pretty solid legal advice on this question and my attorney could not say definitively that omitting would not be lying in this situation. I hope I am not wrong because yes this is the worst part of my app by far.

You were complete at DO schools recently. Give them more time to go over your app.

I still can’t fathom how people manage to get a DUI - just the other day I left half my 12 oz beer at the bar so I could drive home. I’m Asian, don’t judge, but maybe I know my limits because of that?

As for your example with “everyone has done something illegal,” probably true. However, physicians smoking pot at home after work doesn’t really have the chance to hurt others like driving under the influence does. I definitely do not condone the use of illegal drugs by physicians, however.

If you do not get in this cycle, try to call some schools you applied to and see why they didn’t offer you a II/acceptance. If it was because of your past criminal record, your career In medicine may be over. If not, try an SMP, volunteer more, work on your ECs, and try again.