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deleted988749
How long did you stay in your lab to get your name on a publication? Whether it is first author or lesser authors. Psych researchers GTFO(jk jk)
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I have been working full-time in a pediatric neurosurgical lab since Feb 2020 (but I was on furlough for 3 months due to COVID) and my first pub is being submitted this week! I think I am 4th author after my PIs and 2 surgeons who actually performed the surgeries
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deleted988749
Wow congrats dood. Can I ask how did you find the clinical research position(I assume what it is). I never thought outside of the basic science and psych labs at my school. Would like to know more about it.
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Here's N = 1 from a clincal research lab. It took me less than 6 months to achieve two co-authorships. It took me three-and-a-half years to write two manuscripts and listed as the first author for both. They will be both published in November this year, which coincidentally marks my 4th year anniversary since I joined the lab.
In general, first authorship is harder and more prestigious than co-authorships. Also, you will have plenty of things to talk about during interviews, if offered.
In general, first authorship is harder and more prestigious than co-authorships. Also, you will have plenty of things to talk about during interviews, if offered.
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deleted988749
Jesus I really never considered clinical research at all before this thread. How do you find clinical research labs? I'd really like to get into it if I can.
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Basic science researcher for 5 years and only 1 pub so far and 1 more in the works. I also did lots of basic science research as an undergrad (all 4 years) and never got a pub.
Moral of the story: if you want lots of pubs don't do basic science research. I don't regret my time though, I feel basic science teaches you a unique set of skills. Also, at least for graduate school admissions (maybe for MD/PhD too?), its not about the quantity of publications you get but the quality of the research you did (and the letters you get out of it).
Moral of the story: if you want lots of pubs don't do basic science research. I don't regret my time though, I feel basic science teaches you a unique set of skills. Also, at least for graduate school admissions (maybe for MD/PhD too?), its not about the quantity of publications you get but the quality of the research you did (and the letters you get out of it).
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deleted988749
Do you think it's your undergrad lab? The lab I'm part of the professor makes sure everyone gets their name in at least one lesser author.
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I got my name on a publication by accident in May of my freshman year (3rd author of 6), which was roughly eight months after I'd started working in the lab.
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It varies from lab to lab, of course. I also had a different mentor in lab every year until my last year when I had my own project and wrote a thesis on it. As an undergrad I wasn't looking for pubs and more to learn how to do science, so I when searching for a lab I made sure to find good mentoring.
In my current lab, as a graduate student, my PI is very strict on who gets authorship. Even though most people leave with 1 publication, they are the primary author of that publication and it is usually a single authorship or 2-3 other author, PI included.
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And for the record, as far as medical school, graduate school, or literally anything that puts high value on publications are concerned, being first author on something is manipulatively more valuable than being an author. I'm not saying that authorship in any position is bad - far from it -, but it should be noted that having a first author on anything is much better than, necessarily, an any authorship position paper. For example, my poster on which I am first author was likely viewed more favorably than my publication on which I am third author.
Being first author on some sort of media shows your critical ability: to design, to test, to rethink strategies, and so on. The first position on any project is always reserved for those who know how to actually do whatever it is that you did.
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I know for graduate admissions they view posters (assuming 1st author of course) more favorable than most publications if they are not 1st author. Getting authorship as an undergrad on a paper is honestly a lot of luck. You could be doing a summer research project for a postdoc or senior graduate student about to finish and all you do is run a couple gels, image analysis, etc, and you get authorship. I have talked to undergrads with authorships and they could barely tell me about their project, their involvement, methods, etc., because they were barely involved with the critical thinking aspect of the research.
Also don't get blinded by Science,Nature, or Cell publications, of course getting one is an achievement that few obtain, much less undergrads. If you have the opportunity to be actively involved in a publication then do your best to understand your project, the hypothesis, methods, impact of the field, etc.
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deleted988749
In one of the labs I interviewed at the PI told me I just have to do one experiment to get my name in the publication. I wanted to be mentored so I chose not to join that lab. Still searching now lmao
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deleted988749
I've seen someone with just a lesser authorship got into a T20 MD/PHD. First author is cool but I don't think it's necessary.
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Not at all.
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I’ve been doing basic science research full- and part-time since January 2017 and I have yet to be published as a first or co-author. I believe it is less a result of my contributions, but more so that my lab is not very prolific in churning out papers (PI is late in their career, near retirement). I have learned a lot though and would not do anything differently if given the chance. Fortunately, I should be listed as a co-author on an upcoming manuscript, and am currently running experiments for a future first-author pub.
I just want to add my $0.02 to help alleviate the stress anyone may have about not having multiple publications after a few months of lab work. It always shocks me how often I read people on SDN say “yeah I worked in my undergrad lab part-time for 3 months and got published as a first author, you can do it too!” Research is anything but a clear-cut and straightforward path. At this point in our careers we should be more focused on developing our knowledge base and scientific reasoning skills and less about fast-tracking a publication.
I just want to add my $0.02 to help alleviate the stress anyone may have about not having multiple publications after a few months of lab work. It always shocks me how often I read people on SDN say “yeah I worked in my undergrad lab part-time for 3 months and got published as a first author, you can do it too!” Research is anything but a clear-cut and straightforward path. At this point in our careers we should be more focused on developing our knowledge base and scientific reasoning skills and less about fast-tracking a publication.
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I’m not sure about the idea that a first author poster is better than a third author article (assuming it’s in a legitimate journal). I was so genuinely confused by that type of comment here that I asked a physician colleague (very well-established researcher and faculty at strong state medical school and a former fellowship PD) if posters and publications had different relative value in medicine. Her response was that publications are still leagues harder to get than posters, carry much more weight, and are viewed more favorably (provided that you can prove that you understand the project, of course, but that goes for any research).
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This. Posters are not seen as huge accomplishments. Authorship on a peer-reviewed publication of any kind is usually much more impressive, but only if you can talk intelligently and passionately about the project you have a coauthored publication on.
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Absolutely not necessary.
I just said it’s viewed more favorably. And I don’t mean first authorship on a paper, I’m talking oral presentations, abstracts, and posters. A first author on any of those is often found to be superior to a lesser author publication.
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This is so true, I remember getting all this advice about making sure to find a good research mentor and not taking it seriously. It took cycling through four different labs in undergrad for three years for me to finally get the perfect one where I am actually growing as a researcher and publishing. I also agree that it matters a lot what type of research you're involved in. My lab works with both the animal and human model, and they publish at least once a year on their clinical data, but they rarely publish on their guinea pig work.
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If your school has a medical school or medical center, start applying for research labs there. Also, the definition of clinical research is very broad --> Could be a translational research lab, or clinical trial lab, or both (my lab).
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Also, I accidentally said myself that it depends on your PI, but I meant in terms of co-authorship. As long as you have a creative idea, you can always publish your findings as a first author. You just gotta be diligent and constantly remind your project to your PI every day. In my case, my PI did not give a damn about publishing my results, so I had to work with other researchers and organize everything from bottom to top. Only after I submitted a nice draft of the manuscript, he would look at it and edit everything on the paper. Don't rely on your PI for first-authorships. If you're the first author, you should take responsibility for all the work, and it is A LOT OF WORK.
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Source on this? It contradicts everything I've seen, read, and know from my own experience as a professor.
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I originally heard this from the director of a Texas graduate school/MSTP program a few years ago while I was doing a research fellowship there.
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Another N=1 but I'll throw myself in here as far as the amount of actual hours worked. For background I do public health research and started a project doing about 5-10 hours a week since March(ish). Got on a grant and did a little under full time (20-35 hours a week) to finish up the project and write a manuscript for the finished project. The project is mainly just my PI and myself although we did have a grad student help near the end, as far as I know I'm either getting co-first or second author. I did the writing, collection of data, and analysis of our data while my PI mainly checked off stuff and noted when I was being a bumbling idiot (which was often). After that I wrote the manuscript myself and gave it off to my PI so she can use it as a rough draft. We submit the paper later this week and it's highly likely we'll have a few months of revisions on this manuscript.
Another example is my friend doing basic science research at the right place at the right time who just had to mix blue dye for a year and got first author on a basic science publication despite not writing or doing anything outside of menial grunt work (his words not mine). Not to discredit his involvement of course, but i'd definitely focus a lot on what you've learned during research and know how to talk about it.
Another example is my friend doing basic science research at the right place at the right time who just had to mix blue dye for a year and got first author on a basic science publication despite not writing or doing anything outside of menial grunt work (his words not mine). Not to discredit his involvement of course, but i'd definitely focus a lot on what you've learned during research and know how to talk about it.
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1 semester's worth of work for senior thesis-->published 1st author (in an undergrad journal, so maybe doesn't count)
Graduated and started work as full time research assistant (basic science). 2 years in, I have one 1st author poster abstract submitted for an upcoming virtual conference, and was recently 2nd author on poster presented at international conference. I also ghost wrote a manuscript (will be co 1st author) for a project I had nothing to do with after someone left the lab. Gave it to PI a year ago. PI keeps promising to look at it but hasn't. I have my own project and am in the midst of data collection. I will eventually be 1st author on whatever comes of it. However, my PI is very busy seems to be years behind on publications (and near retirement), so I have very little hope that anything I'm working on now will be published within 5 years. The mentorship is good though so I don't mind.
Unfortunately research productivity is such a crapshoot and depends on things that are nearly impossible to notice when you're searching for jobs. You could join a lab while they're in the midst of data collection, do a couple of experiments, analyze some data, go to a conference, and publish something in less than a year. Or you could work hard for 3+ years without a publication. Or somebody leaves unexpectedly and their project becomes yours to finish and publish. Or maybe you're plenty productive but your PI takes a ridiculously long time to publish. As others have said, mentorship is extremely important so try to find a lab with friendly, supportive people.
Graduated and started work as full time research assistant (basic science). 2 years in, I have one 1st author poster abstract submitted for an upcoming virtual conference, and was recently 2nd author on poster presented at international conference. I also ghost wrote a manuscript (will be co 1st author) for a project I had nothing to do with after someone left the lab. Gave it to PI a year ago. PI keeps promising to look at it but hasn't. I have my own project and am in the midst of data collection. I will eventually be 1st author on whatever comes of it. However, my PI is very busy seems to be years behind on publications (and near retirement), so I have very little hope that anything I'm working on now will be published within 5 years. The mentorship is good though so I don't mind.
Unfortunately research productivity is such a crapshoot and depends on things that are nearly impossible to notice when you're searching for jobs. You could join a lab while they're in the midst of data collection, do a couple of experiments, analyze some data, go to a conference, and publish something in less than a year. Or you could work hard for 3+ years without a publication. Or somebody leaves unexpectedly and their project becomes yours to finish and publish. Or maybe you're plenty productive but your PI takes a ridiculously long time to publish. As others have said, mentorship is extremely important so try to find a lab with friendly, supportive people.
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3 years of research at about 50 hours a week.
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Third author clinical pub? Just over 100 hours mostly over the course of one month, save minor pub edits.
First author basic science pub? Over 4000 hours and counting over the course of five years. Nearly about to resubmit after addressing reviewer comments, which were delayed due to COVID19 barring further experimentation.
First author basic science pub? Over 4000 hours and counting over the course of five years. Nearly about to resubmit after addressing reviewer comments, which were delayed due to COVID19 barring further experimentation.
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To a degree. If you're publishing in predatory, pay-to-publish outlets, that's going to potentially backfire.
