How long should the lock down last?

[Groove]

---

Members don't see this ad.

What are all you guys doing about family that does not live in your home? My parents are right down the street and I've been social distancing from them ever since the pandemic hit. They are both in their 70s and 80s and I couldn't forgive myself if I gave either of them COVID. I haven't actually set foot in their house much to their frustration. My sister is arriving out of state from the NW this weekend to stay with my parents and my plan was to social distance from them and still refuse to enter the house or be in very close proximity. I was going to sit in the garage or on their patio with them and visit with some lawn chairs spread around. If I need to go in the house for anything, I was planning on wearing a mask. I can't figure out what's unreasonable and what's not these days. I'm not sure what my end goal is here....continue those efforts until a vaccine is out on the market?

Am I going overboard? Are any of you making exceptions for close family as long as nobody is symptomatic?

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Nope, I’m doing the same. Figure I’ll get it eventually and I can see my folks once I get better.

 

[doctalaughs]

The sad thing is that teachers and their unions will probably have indirectly killed 1000x more minority/black kids than our police could ever, by pushing more into poverty and away from opportunity while simultaneously widening the gap in our society by leaps and bounds. Yet I don’t see liberals marching in the streets against this or even much of a visible big public outcry - despite the claims above.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Well maybe you didn't like my analogy because there a grain of truth to it... either way no matter.

Obviously I don't blame you for making the same choice as me and putting your children into private school. What can I say... welcome to the dark side.

Somewhat belatedly but im sure that you have saved a few pennies .and im also sure that nothing so grubby as saving money ever entered your head.. im sure you are as pure as the driven slush.... unlike those greedy teachers

You're once again making this weirdly personal.

But no, I'm paid to do a job. If I don't do that job, I don't get paid. That's how most of us are. Either hourly, so fewer hours means less money, or production where fewer patients means less money.

 

[WilcoWorld]

What are all you guys doing about family that does not live in your home? My parents are right down the street and I've been social distancing from them ever since the pandemic hit. They are both in their 70s and 80s and I couldn't forgive myself if I gave either of them COVID. I haven't actually set foot in their house much to their frustration. My sister is arriving out of state from the NW this weekend to stay with my parents and my plan was to social distance from them and still refuse to enter the house or be in very close proximity. I was going to sit in the garage or on their patio with them and visit with some lawn chairs spread around. If I need to go in the house for anything, I was planning on wearing a mask. I can't figure out what's unreasonable and what's not these days. I'm not sure what my end goal is here....continue those efforts until a vaccine is out on the market?

Am I going overboard? Are any of you making exceptions for close family as long as nobody is symptomatic?

I eat dinner with my 70's aged parents regularly, and they even babysit my kids.

Dinner: Done outside with me & my family sitting >6feet from them.
Babysitting: Kids play outside with my folks >6 feet away, or kids go into their walk-in basement & my folks stay out of the basement until the next morning.

My brother's going to visit and stay with them this weekend - he had a negative COVID test this week and has isolated since & only has to drive here.

Is it 100% safe? No. Would my parents rather die than not be able to see their kids/grandchildren? Yes. The above seems like a local optimum to us.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

What are all you guys doing about family that does not live in your home? My parents are right down the street and I've been social distancing from them ever since the pandemic hit. They are both in their 70s and 80s and I couldn't forgive myself if I gave either of them COVID. I haven't actually set foot in their house much to their frustration. My sister is arriving out of state from the NW this weekend to stay with my parents and my plan was to social distance from them and still refuse to enter the house or be in very close proximity. I was going to sit in the garage or on their patio with them and visit with some lawn chairs spread around. If I need to go in the house for anything, I was planning on wearing a mask. I can't figure out what's unreasonable and what's not these days. I'm not sure what my end goal is here....continue those efforts until a vaccine is out on the market?

Am I going overboard? Are any of you making exceptions for close family as long as nobody is symptomatic?

It all depends on your risk tolerance. If you feel that's what you need to do to keep your parents safe, then that's OK in my book. I won't judge anyone for being overly cautious in their personal lives during these times.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The sad thing is that teachers and their unions will probably have indirectly killed 1000x more minority/black kids than our police could ever, by pushing more into poverty and away from opportunity while simultaneously widening the gap in our society by leaps and bounds. Yet I don’t see liberals marching in the streets against this or even much of a visible big public outcry - despite the claims above.

And this: Child Abuse Cases Drop 51 Percent. The Authorities Are Very Worried.

 

[WilcoWorld]

The sad thing is that teachers and their unions will probably have indirectly killed 1000x more minority/black kids than our police could ever, by pushing more into poverty and away from opportunity while simultaneously widening the gap in our society by leaps and bounds. Yet I don’t see liberals marching in the streets against this or even much of a visible big public outcry - despite the claims above.

If you're going to apply this reasoning then you need to extend it to pay check lenders, the fast food industry, our medical system, the prison for profit industry...

 

[Birdstrike]

What are all you guys doing about family that does not live in your home? My parents are right down the street and I've been social distancing from them ever since the pandemic hit. They are both in their 70s and 80s and I couldn't forgive myself if I gave either of them COVID. I haven't actually set foot in their house much to their frustration. My sister is arriving out of state from the NW this weekend to stay with my parents and my plan was to social distance from them and still refuse to enter the house or be in very close proximity. I was going to sit in the garage or on their patio with them and visit with some lawn chairs spread around. If I need to go in the house for anything, I was planning on wearing a mask. I can't figure out what's unreasonable and what's not these days. I'm not sure what my end goal is here....continue those efforts until a vaccine is out on the market?

Am I going overboard? Are any of you making exceptions for close family as long as nobody is symptomatic?

I think what you're doing is a very reasonable compromise. Although the risk drops off dramatically below ages 45-55, it rises just as steeply above those ages. My parents live out of state, but we have put off any usual visits for this reason. Oxford University (Astra-Zeneca) is going to have a vaccine in Sept/Oct, so hang in there. If case counts drop to negligible levels in both your parents' and your locations, then you could possibly reevaluate.

 

[Nobutyesbutno]

View attachment 313796

I don't mind a conversation but posting pictures of my mom is punching below the belt....

 

[Birdstrike]

Is it 100% safe? No. Would my parents rather die than not be able to see their kids/grandchildren? Yes.

I understand this.

 

[doctalaughs]

If you're going to apply this reasoning then you need to extend it to pay check lenders, the fast food industry, our medical system, the prison for profit industry...

Sure- agree for paycheck lenders which are known to be predatory leeches.

Probably right about for profit prison.

Don’t follow your argument for fast food or medical, or at least not directly analogous to a union/individual refusing to do the job they are paid for (while still demanding pay).

 

[WilcoWorld]

Sure- agree for paycheck lenders which are known to be predatory leeches.

Probably right about for profit prison.

Don’t follow your argument for fast food or medical, or at least not directly analogous to a union/individual refusing to do the job they are paid for (while still demanding pay).

If you want to hold a group responsible for the indirect harms caused by their actions (which I'm not arguing against per se, just trying to flesh out the consequences of said argument) then, for example, we should recognize that the fast food industry indirectly causes higher deaths among less wealthy via contributing to disproportionately higher rates of obesity/HLD/HTD/DM by providing high calorie/dollar foods with higher concentrations of fast food joints in low income neighborhoods.

 

[Birdstrike]

I can't decide whether on not to jump back into this poo-flingfest of a thread...

 

[turkeyjerky]

What are all you guys doing about family that does not live in your home? My parents are right down the street and I've been social distancing from them ever since the pandemic hit. They are both in their 70s and 80s and I couldn't forgive myself if I gave either of them COVID. I haven't actually set foot in their house much to their frustration. My sister is arriving out of state from the NW this weekend to stay with my parents and my plan was to social distance from them and still refuse to enter the house or be in very close proximity. I was going to sit in the garage or on their patio with them and visit with some lawn chairs spread around. If I need to go in the house for anything, I was planning on wearing a mask. I can't figure out what's unreasonable and what's not these days. I'm not sure what my end goal is here....continue those efforts until a vaccine is out on the market?

Am I going overboard? Are any of you making exceptions for close family as long as nobody is symptomatic?

Also think you're being completely prudent. As long as you're setting foot in the hospital, the risk of pre-or-asymptomatic infection is too high. Personally, I think outside socializing is totally safe though.

 

[wamcp]

The sad thing is that teachers and their unions will probably have indirectly killed 1000x more minority/black kids than our police could ever, by pushing more into poverty and away from opportunity while simultaneously widening the gap in our society by leaps and bounds. Yet I don’t see liberals marching in the streets against this or even much of a visible big public outcry - despite the claims above.

How much more should children suffer needlessly from neglect, sexual abuse, depression, suicides, hunger thanks to the depraved greed of school teacher unions?


"Five children with special educational needs have killed themselves in the space of five months in Kent, a council official has revealed in a warning over the impact of school closures on pupils.

Sarah Hammond, the county’s director of integrated children’s services, said ordinarily two or three children might be expected to take their lives over 12 months."

[https://www.theguardian.com/educati...ren-kent-raise-concerns-over-school-closures)


"Prof Ellen Townsend, professor of psychology at the University of Nottingham, who organised the letter, said mental health problems such as anxiety were already rising in young people before lockdown.
She told the BBC there was evidence that growing feelings of loneliness and social isolation as a result of school closures during the pandemic could be making that worse, especially among teenagers.
And she described hearing some "heart-breaking stories" of children struggling.
The letter also points to evidence that children are at low risk from Covid-19.

Suicide is already the leading cause of death in 5-19 year olds in England and the second leading cause of death in young people globally; thankfully, Covid-19 will never claim this many young lives," it says."

[https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53037702](https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53037702)

Child Abuse Cases Drop 51 Percent.
“You would think that when we see a decrease in the number of incidents and reports, that would be a good thing: ‘Oh my God, that means kids are safer,’” said [Darcel Clark, the Bronx district attorney](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/28/nyregion/giving-up-the-bench-in-hopes-of-bringing-justice-to-the-bronx.html). “But it’s just the opposite.”


“These people who would ordinarily see our children,” she said, “their teachers, the pediatricians, social workers, camp counselors, etc., since they don’t have eyes on them now, we don’t know what’s happening with them.”

The tensions resulting from stay-at-home orders and social distancing — isolation, unemployment and even alcohol abuse — can easily erupt into violence, child welfare experts said. Sexual predators now have all-day access to children who would normally be in school; in the Bronx, for example, sexual abuse is the most common type of child abuse arrest since the start of the pandemic, according to the borough’s District Attorney’s Office.

[https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/...09/nyregion/coronavirus-nyc-child-abuse.html)


"While the full extent of the shutdown's impact on mental health can't yet be fully known, early portents are grim. In April, the Department of Health and Human Services' “Disaster Distress Helpline” recorded a 1,000 percent (!) increase in call volume compared to April 2019."

[https://www.aei.org/op-eds/reopenin...nt-risk-free-neither-is-keeping-them-closed/)

In Los Angeles, for example, nearly 80% of the students attending the district’s public schools qualify for free or reduced-price school meals. Hundreds of thousands of Los Angeles Unified School District students and their families rely on those meals as a key part of their daily nutrition. And numerous families rely on schools for specialized services for children with disabilities and essential child care that enables parents to work.

School closures are costly and have economic and social impacts that affect women disproportionately and hurt the poorest families the most.

[https://www.latimes.com/opinion/sto...ools-ebola-taught-us-why-that-may-be-extreme)


Long awaited results of UW study of 3,000 kids during school closure. 68% depression rate.

[https://www.wiaawi.org/Portals/0/PD...Health/Covid/SchoolClosureImpact_McGuine.pdf)

 

[gutonc]

What are all you guys doing about family that does not live in your home? My parents are right down the street and I've been social distancing from them ever since the pandemic hit. They are both in their 70s and 80s and I couldn't forgive myself if I gave either of them COVID. I haven't actually set foot in their house much to their frustration. My sister is arriving out of state from the NW this weekend to stay with my parents and my plan was to social distance from them and still refuse to enter the house or be in very close proximity. I was going to sit in the garage or on their patio with them and visit with some lawn chairs spread around. If I need to go in the house for anything, I was planning on wearing a mask. I can't figure out what's unreasonable and what's not these days. I'm not sure what my end goal is here....continue those efforts until a vaccine is out on the market?

Am I going overboard? Are any of you making exceptions for close family as long as nobody is symptomatic?

My dad's in his 70s, O2 dependent COPD with an FEV1 less than a pint glass holds.

I bring him groceries once a week and we're both N95 masked and we yell at each other across his living room while I stand at his front door.

Agree that it's all about personal (yours and your folks) risk tolerance.

 

[bravotwozero]

My dad's in his 70s, O2 dependent COPD with an FEV1 less than a pint glass holds.

I bring him groceries once a week and we're both N95 masked and we yell at each other across his living room while I stand at his front door.

Agree that it's all about personal (yours and your folks) risk tolerance.

That's tough man. Good on you for being a good son!

 

[miacomet]

No one here is doing that.

What we are doing is getting angry that teachers don't want to do their jobs. The jobs we get taxed to pay for.

In my state almost everyone else is back at work. The only things not yet reopened are movie theaters and sporting arenas. Everyone else is back at work, why are teachers special in this regard?

Teachers are constantly telling us how important they are, how they sacrifice for their students, and how much they care about the kids. Here's their chance to put up or shut up.

In my state they want to hire extra teachers, particularly substitutes, and people just aren't interested. Others are quitting. I live in a non-union state. It appears that many teachers are having no problem getting hired by families to teach privately and have decided this is lower risk. It's a free market...

Maybe in other areas it's really easy to hire qualified teachers; I have no idea, but if teachers are so easily replaceable, why does anyone care that some teachers are choosing to leave the field, particularly in right-to-work states? Can't school districts just hire people who want to work?

 

[miacomet]

I think what you're doing is a very reasonable compromise. Although the risk drops off dramatically below ages 45-55, it rises just as steeply above those ages. My parents live out of state, but we have put off any usual visits for this reason. Oxford University (Astra-Zeneca) is going to have a vaccine in Sept/Oct, so hang in there. If case counts drop to negligible levels in both your parents' and your locations, then you could possibly reevaluate.

What makes you think the US will be top of the list for a vaccine made overseas? Astra-Zeneca is a British-Swedish; presumably their first markets would be Britain (the NHS is already in contract, I believe) and Sweden, followed by the rest of Europe. A million doses won't go far. Over a million doses of Oxford/AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine possible by September - researcher

Is there some deal with the US of which I am unaware?

 

[Birdstrike]

What makes you think the US will be top of the list for a vaccine made overseas? Astra-Zeneca is a British-Swedish; presumably their first markets would be Britain (the NHS is already in contract, I believe) and Sweden, followed by the rest of Europe. A million doses won't go far. Over a million doses of Oxford/AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine possible by September - researcher

If I had to guess, I'd say "Money talks and b******* walks." None of these companies are doing it for free. That's who'll get it first, whoever makes it most worth Astra-Zeneca's while.

Is there some deal with the US of which I am unaware?

Apparently, yes, there are deals of which you're unaware. Will someone else pony up more than the $1.2 billion we've slapped down in front of Astra-Zeneca? I don't know, but I've never known Donald Trump to be afraid to throw cash around, have you? You bet your tuckus he's going to bully his way to the front of the line for us. Also, since there's over 100 vaccines in multiple countries, I don't think Oxford/Astra-Zeneca is likely to be the only option. We've already slapped down a half billion dollars each on Johnson and Johnson, and Moderna's products, too.


Dept. of HHS:



Follow the money.

 

[Nobutyesbutno]

Follow the money.

Wise

 

[MediMike]

WTF... You're not telling me that's a typo

 

[GeneralVeers]

H

 

[gyngyn]

Racial slurs will not be tolerated.

 

[Birdstrike]

WTF... You're not telling me that's a typo

I knew I put him on ignore for a reason.

 

[DoctwoB]

If I had to guess, I'd say "Money talks and b******* walks." None of these companies are doing it for free. That's who'll get it first, whoever makes it most worth Astra-Zeneca's while.



Apparently, yes, there are deals of which you're unaware. Will someone else pony up more than the $1.2 billion we've slapped down in front of Astra-Zeneca? I don't know, but I've never known Donald Trump to be afraid to throw cash around, have you? You bet your tuckus he's going to bully his way to the front of the line for us. Also, since there's over 100 vaccines in multiple countries, I don't think Oxford/Astra-Zeneca is likely to be the only option. We've already slapped down a half billion dollars each on Johnson and Johnson, and Moderna's products, too.


Dept. of HHS:

View attachment 313836

Follow the money.

While I typically despise DTs version of crony capitalism, this is one area where we should be aggressive. It would be difficult to overpay for a vaccine (or even earlier access to a vaccine by a matter of weeks/months). Throw that $$$ around.

 

[GeneralVeers]

While I typically despise DTs version of crony capitalism, this is one area where we should be aggressive. It would be difficult to overpay for a vaccine (or even earlier access to a vaccine by a matter of weeks/months). Throw that $$$ around.

Agreed. If we can open our economy weeks or months earlier, then on balance it's worth it. The government will probably more than make up for the vaccine cost by collecting more taxes from increased economic activity.

 

[Birdstrike]

SDN: "Teachers want to get paid to do nothing," versus, "We want to work but safely."

Teachers: "No, we want to get paid to do nothing. Literally."

Teachers Are Wary of Returning to Class, and Online Instruction Too (Published 2020)

Unions are threatening to strike if classrooms reopen, but are also pushing to limit live remote teaching. Their demands will shape pandemic education.

www.nytimes.com

 

[GeneralVeers]

But they totally aren't being lazy or political. Fire all of them who won't return to work.

 

[wamcp]

"No study to date has detected live virus beyond day nine of illness despite persistently high viral loads... Although RNA shedding can be prolonged, duration of viable virus is relatively short-lived. Thus, the detection of viral RNA cannot be used to infer infectiousness."

SARS-CoV-2 viral load dynamics, duration of viral shedding and infectiousness – a living systematic review and meta-analysis

Background Viral load kinetics and the duration of viral shedding are important determinants for disease transmission. We aim i) to characterise viral load dynamics, duration of viral RNA, and viable virus shedding of SARS-CoV-2 in various body fluids and ii) to compare SARS-CoV-2 viral dynamics...

www.medrxiv.org

It is ridiculous we continue to treat covid swab positive patients who were positive 30 days ago as equally infectious

 

[GeneralVeers]

"No study to date has detected live virus beyond day nine of illness despite persistently high viral loads... Although RNA shedding can be prolonged, duration of viable virus is relatively short-lived. Thus, the detection of viral RNA cannot be used to infer infectiousness."

SARS-CoV-2 viral load dynamics, duration of viral shedding and infectiousness – a living systematic review and meta-analysis

Background Viral load kinetics and the duration of viral shedding are important determinants for disease transmission. We aim i) to characterise viral load dynamics, duration of viral RNA, and viable virus shedding of SARS-CoV-2 in various body fluids and ii) to compare SARS-CoV-2 viral dynamics...

www.medrxiv.org

It is ridiculous we continue to treat covid swab positive patients who were positive 30 days ago as equally infectious

It is nuts. We are getting 2 or 3 positive repeat tests on admitted patients. Each one is counting as a "case".

 

[Birdstrike]

"No study to date has detected live virus beyond day nine of illness despite persistently high viral loads... Although RNA shedding can be prolonged, duration of viable virus is relatively short-lived. Thus, the detection of viral RNA cannot be used to infer infectiousness."

SARS-CoV-2 viral load dynamics, duration of viral shedding and infectiousness – a living systematic review and meta-analysis

Background Viral load kinetics and the duration of viral shedding are important determinants for disease transmission. We aim i) to characterise viral load dynamics, duration of viral RNA, and viable virus shedding of SARS-CoV-2 in various body fluids and ii) to compare SARS-CoV-2 viral dynamics...

www.medrxiv.org

It is ridiculous we continue to treat covid swab positive patients who were positive 30 days ago as equally infectious

We have certain institutions that won't let people back to work for 14 days, even after a negative test, because "testing is flawed, must ignore!" Others won't let people back to work even 30 days after symptoms are gone, they're no longer contagious or spreading viable virus, because "testing is perfect, can't ignore!" All roads lead back to emotion-based catastrophizing over this virus as opposed to rational decision making.

 

[Birdstrike]

But they totally aren't being lazy or political. Fire all of them who won't return to work.

It's good to know all teachers concerned about going back to work are volunteering to be locked in their homes with no access to grocery stores, food delivery of even utilities, so those workers won't be put at risk, either. Oh, wait, you mean they're not?

 

[MediMike]

SDN: "Teachers want to get paid to do nothing," versus, "We want to work but safely."

Teachers: "No, we want to get paid to do nothing. Literally."



View attachment 314399

Teachers Are Wary of Returning to Class, and Online Instruction Too (Published 2020)

Unions are threatening to strike if classrooms reopen, but are also pushing to limit live remote teaching. Their demands will shape pandemic education.

www.nytimes.com

This is refriggingdiculous. While I completely support the demands for appropriate PPE, funds for sanitizing and safety guidelines the concerns expressed by this union president are flat out stupid.

Worried about how they or their home will look while teaching? Wear a hat and get one of those virtual backgrounds that makes it look like you're on the moon. Or simply have your screen share option on for the lesson and not the webcam.

Can't record lectures because of privacy concerns? Come on.

With that being said, painting them all with the same broad brush is pretty ignorant as well.

 

[sunshinefl]

What are all you guys doing about family that does not live in your home? My parents are right down the street and I've been social distancing from them ever since the pandemic hit. They are both in their 70s and 80s and I couldn't forgive myself if I gave either of them COVID. I haven't actually set foot in their house much to their frustration. My sister is arriving out of state from the NW this weekend to stay with my parents and my plan was to social distance from them and still refuse to enter the house or be in very close proximity. I was going to sit in the garage or on their patio with them and visit with some lawn chairs spread around. If I need to go in the house for anything, I was planning on wearing a mask. I can't figure out what's unreasonable and what's not these days. I'm not sure what my end goal is here....continue those efforts until a vaccine is out on the market?

Am I going overboard? Are any of you making exceptions for close family as long as nobody is symptomatic?

I was avoiding seeing my parents (divorced) and sisters (All different cities) due to the pandemic. Until my mom just died unexpectedly (NOT COVID19 related though testing her was the first thing they did at the ME). Then we all convened together at my dads house for 3 days.

 

[bravotwozero]

I was avoiding seeing my parents (divorced) and sisters (All different cities) due to the pandemic. Until my mom just died unexpectedly (NOT COVID19 related though testing her was the first thing they did at the ME). Then we all convened together at my dads house for 3 days.

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you're doing ok.

 

[Birdstrike]

Finland closed their schools during the pandemic, Sweden didn't. What was the effect on teachers and children, in Sweden compared to Finland?

From the Public Health Agency of Sweden:

"Covid-19 in schoolchildren: A comparison between Finland and Sweden

The Swedish comparison of number of reported cases among staff in day care and primary school to number of cases in other professions does not show any increased risk for teachers. This also indicates that the role of children in propagating this infection is likely to be small. Various papers on contact tracing have also found that children rarely are the first case in family clusters...

• Closing of schools had no measurable effect on the number of cases of covid19 among children."

 

[pollyspockets]

Is there any actual data regarding the opening of schools that support continued closure? I have family saying that they are “at the highest risk of any profession” and schools should be shut until a vaccine available. I don’t see how teachers are any different than grocery store clerks but they insist it’s “a different environment with close, high risk contact.” Any data to refute these claims? Of course when I mention I insert breathing tubes in these people and I have a much riskier job, this falls on deaf ears. I see the Sweden/Finland comparison above, which is great.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Is there any actual data regarding the opening of schools that support continued closure? I have family saying that they are “at the highest risk of any profession” and schools should be shut until a vaccine available. I don’t see how teachers are any different than grocery store clerks but they insist it’s “a different environment with close, high risk contact.” Any data to refute these claims? Of course when I mention I insert breathing tubes in these people and I have a much riskier job, this falls on deaf ears. I see the Sweden/Finland comparison above, which is great.

There isn't. The "Follow the Science" people have been remarkably unscientific on this issue. They've been repeating broad, baseless claims and justifications for continued closure.

 

[Birdstrike]

Is there any actual data regarding the opening of schools that support continued closure?

No.

 

[AMEHigh]

Is there any actual data regarding the opening of schools that support continued closure? I have family saying that they are “at the highest risk of any profession” and schools should be shut until a vaccine available. I don’t see how teachers are any different than grocery store clerks but they insist it’s “a different environment with close, high risk contact.” Any data to refute these claims? Of course when I mention I insert breathing tubes in these people and I have a much riskier job, this falls on deaf ears. I see the Sweden/Finland comparison above, which is great.

Here’s an article that includes a bunch of different information. But essentially the short answer is there are obviously a lot of unknowns since this is a new virus and most places shut down schools and kid activities when things first happened. But it does include data that has been done so far.

What Scientists Know About How Children Spread COVID-19

As communities struggle with the decision over whether to open up schools, the research so far offers unsatisfying answers

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[Lawpy]

No more lockdowns

 

[Birdstrike]

Here’s an article that includes a bunch of different information. But essentially the short answer is there are obviously a lot of unknowns since this is a new virus and most places shut down schools and kid activities when things first happened. But it does include data that has been done so far.

What Scientists Know About How Children Spread COVID-19

As communities struggle with the decision over whether to open up schools, the research so far offers unsatisfying answers

www.smithsonianmag.com

"Most places" did not shut down schools, daycares and kids activities. There's plenty of data from European countries who didn't as well as American day cares, hundreds of which stayed open during the pandemic with thousands of kids and staff. I've posted data from examples of all of these (schools in Netherlands, Sweden, Finland and U.S. daycares) if you've been following these threads. It's all here. I also find it very convenient that whoever wrote the article just couldn't find that specific data, even though I had no trouble finding it days and weeks ago. Entire countries have kept schools open during severe pandemic (Sweden, others in Europe) and thousands of daycares have been kept open (U.S.) The data is public and I've shared it with you.

There is no mystery here. The virus will spread. The risk to kids is essentially zero and the risk to teaching staff is no higher than to any other worker back at work, and no greater than the uber drivers, walmart workers, utility workers, doctors and nurses that have been working through the pandemic serving the teachers getting paid to stay home and hide.

 

[AMEHigh]

"Most places" did not shut down schools, daycares and kids activities. There's plenty of data from European countries who didn't as well as American day cares, hundreds of which stayed open during the pandemic with thousands of kids and staff. I've posted data from examples of all of these (schools in Netherlands, Sweden, Finland and U.S. daycares) if you've been following these threads. It's all here. I also find it very convenient that whoever wrote the article just couldn't find that specific data, even though I had no trouble finding it days and weeks ago. Entire countries have kept schools open during severe pandemic (Sweden, others in Europe) and thousands of daycares have been kept open (U.S.) The data is public and I've shared it with you.

There is no mystery here. The virus will spread. The risk to kids is essentially zero and the risk to teaching staff is no higher than to any other worker back at work, and no greater than the uber drivers, walmart workers, utility workers, doctors and nurses that have been working through the pandemic serving the teachers getting paid to stay home and hide.

I was talking about in the US. Most kid based activities and schools did shut down. I didn’t say all because I’m not sure if all public schools shut down, but from my general knowledge there weren’t many schools in session in April and May and now in the summer when other places are having a lot of cases.

Daycare classes are typically small by government mandates. Daycares don’t have hundreds or thousands of kids riding buses together and then in cramped quarters. So I was just saying there isn’t good data out yet here. I just posted the article since the person I quoted was looking for information. There was no intent behind me posting the article, just trying to be helpful by posting an article with some info.

But we’ll actually have data since schools are opening in-person in a few weeks.

 

[Birdstrike]

I was talking about in the US. Most kid based activities and schools did shut down. I didn’t say all because I’m not sure if all public schools shut down, but from my general knowledge there weren’t many schools in session in April and May and now in the summer when other places are having a lot of cases.

Daycare classes are typically small by government mandates. Daycares don’t have hundreds or thousands of kids riding buses together and then in cramped quarters. So I was just saying there isn’t good data out yet here. I just posted the article since the person I quoted was looking for information. There was no intent behind me posting the article, just trying to be helpful by posting an article with some info.

But we’ll actually have data since schools are opening in-person in a few weeks.

Here's some info on U.S daycares that stayed open, which showed incredibly reassuring results.

He's an American school that stayed open during the worst of the pandemic in the heart of NYC, with good results.

Also, the Netherlands, Denmark, Australia, and Ireland opened schools with little problems.


The source links are all there and in the original posts. Read them. Let me know what you think.

 

[MediMike]

"Most places" did not shut down schools, daycares and kids activities. There's plenty of data from European countries who didn't as well as American day cares, hundreds of which stayed open during the pandemic with thousands of kids and staff. I've posted data from examples of all of these (schools in Netherlands, Sweden, Finland and U.S. daycares) if you've been following these threads. It's all here. I also find it very convenient that whoever wrote the article just couldn't find that specific data, even though I had no trouble finding it days and weeks ago. Entire countries have kept schools open during severe pandemic (Sweden, others in Europe) and thousands of daycares have been kept open (U.S.) The data is public and I've shared it with you.

There is no mystery here. The virus will spread. The risk to kids is essentially zero and the risk to teaching staff is no higher than to any other worker back at work, and no greater than the uber drivers, walmart workers, utility workers, doctors and nurses that have been working through the pandemic serving the teachers getting paid to stay home and hide.

So aggro man. @AMEHigh never mentioned day cares in their post. And yes MOST PLACES shut down schools, camps, and sports. How many places in the U.S. kept school, athletics and camps going?

Now, if you count up the population of countries which kept schools, camps and athletics open and compare that to the U.S. population and it's, say....>68% (arbitrary) then I'll concede that most places didn't shut down.

But if you get European countries I get China.

 

[AMEHigh]

Here's some info on U.S daycares that stayed open, which showed incredibly reassuring results.

He's an American school that stayed open during the worst of the pandemic in the heart of NYC, with good results.

Also, the Netherlands, Denmark, Australia, and Ireland opened schools with little problems.


The source links are all there and in the original posts. Read them. Let me know what you think.

I’m not sure why you’re arguing with me.
Again, MOST schools in the US did shut down. The regional enrichment centers didn’t have more than 150 students in them. Again daycares aren’t comparable because they have low ratios. So neither of those are comparable to schools with hundreds to thousands of students in close quarters.

All I’m saying is the data isn’t there. This is a brand new virus, of course the data isn’t there. That’s all I said which is a fact because it’s impossible to have data for something that’s never happened before.

I said we’ll have data soon since schools are about to open, that is a fact.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I’m not sure why you’re arguing with me.
Again, MOST schools in the US didn’t shut down. The regional enrichment centers didn’t have more than 150 students in them. Again daycares aren’t comparable because they have low ratios. So neither of those are comparable to schools with hundreds to thousands of students in close quarters.

All I’m saying is the data isn’t there. This is a brand new virus, of course the data isn’t there. That’s all I said which is a fact because it’s impossible to have data for something that’s never happened before.

I said we’ll have data soon since schools are about to open, that is a fact.

You're just making stuff up now.

In my state, daycare ratios are about the same as schools. In fact for ages 6 and up it's 25:1 which is in fact larger than the median elementary school class.

Second, lots of the local childcare options expanded enormously during this. The hospital daycare brought on lots of new staff for the obvious reasons. By late April there were 300 kids at the place (local elementary schools have enrollments of around 450-500 for comparison).

NPR did a great piece a month or so back about what the YMCA did during all of this as they greatly expanded their childcare services.

So while we don't have lots of data specifically about public schools, we have loads for every other childcare source many of which seem more likely to be areas of spread.

 

[AMEHigh]

You're just making stuff up now.

In my state, daycare ratios are about the same as schools. In fact for ages 6 and up it's 25:1 which is in fact larger than the median elementary school class.

Second, lots of the local childcare options expanded enormously during this. The hospital daycare brought on lots of new staff for the obvious reasons. By late April there were 300 kids at the place (local elementary schools have enrollments of around 450-500 for comparison).

NPR did a great piece a month or so back about what the YMCA did during all of this as they greatly expanded their childcare services.

So while we don't have lots of data specifically about public schools, we have loads for every other childcare source many of which seem more likely to be areas of spread.

Ok thanks for sharing. I stand corrected.
My understanding was that most schools were closed in the US. I stand corrected as I realize not every area did things the same. My apologies as I wasn’t just trying to make things up. I knew daycares were open, but didn’t think most areas had places open for older kids/teens, but thanks for correcting me. If most places weren’t closed in your area then that’s great to have a better understanding. Hopefully the data from this here becomes more clear with time.

Has there been any data in regards to mask wearing vs not mask wearing required for older students for these places that were open? I know some schools aren’t requiring masks for students and that has some of my friends nervous, especially the ones who teach larger high school classes. It’d be nice if could share any data with them to help them feel more comfortable.