How long to wait before asking your PI for an LOR?

[NeuroPsychosis]

Question: How long should you wait before asking a PI for a letter of rec if you work in their lab?

Case: I will be transitioning to a new lab during the app season.... By the app deadline, I would be in their lab for 2 months in. I have been communicating with that PI since March though (also my Prior PI collaborates with them- he got me that position). Is it a problem if I ask this new PI to write me a letter of rec or would that just be awkward and something not recommended? I will be having 2 letters of recs from my previous lab (where we collaborated on pubs and they know me well)...However, I am struggling to get my third. Either it will be from my undergrad lab (an older letter from 2018-2019) or my new PI who like I said will see my work for 2 months by the time apps are due. What is your suggestion on this?

Also, do all three letters have to be equally strong, or can one strong letter from my most significant PI stand out in the apps? how are LORs looked at?

Thanks!

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[futureapppsy2]

Mod note: Split this into its own thread.

 

[Justanothergrad]

I encourage folks to ask up front for what they want and get clear what they expect for you to get it. For instance, you could tell them you are wanting lab experience to prepare you for grad school and that you know the most valuable part of lab experience includes research product involvement. You could then say something along the lines of you would like to make sure you are able to contribute in a meaningful way and ask what they would like from you to enable them to write a LOR and to be open to you being involved in product generation. I would have asked that the moment I started considering joining the lab. I would have it now barring it having already happened.

 

[NeuroPsychosis]

I encourage folks to ask up front for what they want and get clear what they expect for you to get it. For instance, you could tell them you are wanting lab experience to prepare you for grad school and that you know the most valuable part of lab experience includes research product involvement. You could then say something along the lines of you would like to make sure you are able to contribute in a meaningful way and ask what they would like from you to enable them to write a LOR and to be open to you being involved in product generation. I would have asked that the moment I started considering joining the lab. I would have it now barring it having already happened.

Thanks for the input. However, I am feeling that your answer is a little out of context for my specific question. I am at a point where it's time to request LORs from my PIs/ Supervisors but each one is at a different level in terms of how long they known me for or the nature of their lab work.

Re-phrasing: Would it be more appropriate to submit LOR from a former lab (undergrad 2 years old) or ask my new PI who I started working for in just 2 months? With both, I have had good communication. With the former lab I was an undergrad lab tech who was mainly involved in data collection. In the newer position, I am/ expected to be more productive as a coordinator.

Any input? I apologize if I may sound confusing... Happy to clarify further.

 

[jdawg2017]

Is your new lab a paid position? If not, I would go with the former person who knows you longer, assuming they can write you a strong letter. If I knew someone for only a couple of months I would be hesitant personally to write a LOR for them, even if I think they are great, because they would just be settling into the position.

LMK if you have further questions

 

[Justanothergrad]

Thanks for the input. However, I am feeling that your answer is a little out of context for my specific question. I am at a point where it's time to request LORs from my PIs/ Supervisors but each one is at a different level in terms of how long they known me for or the nature of their lab work.

Re-phrasing: Would it be more appropriate to submit LOR from a former lab (undergrad 2 years old) or ask my new PI who I started working for in just 2 months? With both, I have had good communication. With the former lab I was an undergrad lab tech who was mainly involved in data collection. In the newer position, I am/ expected to be more productive as a coordinator.

Any input? I apologize if I may sound confusing... Happy to clarify further.

My point is that I would have made that discussion a point earlier in the conversation with the PI you are currently working with. I would discuss with them what you are able to do / what they are able to write in a letter given your limited contact. There isn't anything wrong with an older PI given you are applying to grad school - we expect some mobility. The question is can they speak to your skills and abilities. If the answer to that is no for either, their letter will not be as strong. I hope that helps clarify what I was saying (some of it was written to also advise others reading the forum, fyiw)

 

[NeuroPsychosis]

Is your new lab a paid position? If not, I would go with the former person who knows you longer, assuming they can write you a strong letter. If I knew someone for only a couple of months I would be hesitant personally to write a LOR for them, even if I think they are great, because they would just be settling into the position.

LMK if you have further questions

Yes, my new lab position is paid. It is with the VA working on Parkinson's research (prestigious multi-site study involving drugs). My current PI connected me to this PI and been communicating with her since march, she was so eager to hire me and waited for funding to go thru to start the process.

My past PI definitly had a strong letter for me (she wrote me one for my MA program), however, I was warned that admin committees prefer newer letters- But having two new letters from my current lab (most productive) I thought maybe the third won't be a big deal if its "too old" or "too new".

Thanks!

 

[NeuroPsychosis]

My point is that I would have made that discussion a point earlier in the conversation with the PI you are currently working with. I would discuss with them what you are able to do / what they are able to write in a letter given your limited contact. There isn't anything wrong with an older PI given you are applying to grad school - we expect some mobility. The question is can they speak to your skills and abilities. If the answer to that is no for either, their letter will not be as strong. I hope that helps clarify what I was saying (some of it was written to also advise others reading the forum, fyiw)

Yeah thanks for clarifying.

I have contacts with three labs

Lab 1: my undergrad tech position from 2019- not so much productivity-was mainly data collection. 1.5 years.

Lab 2: Current lab i left because of funding expiration. However, I got about 2-3 pubs and currently still collaborating with them even though i am unemployed officially (the PIs stayed in contact with me and we still communicate science). Did 1 year- I am goign to ask for 2 letters (PI and Co-PI from another dept.)

Lab 3: I am about to join in October. I have been communicating with the PI since march and we clicked good- she contacted me after 4 months to ask if I am still interested in the position and I definitely agreed to take it and commit to it until I marticulate to a PhD program.

My third letter is in question as from where I should get it..either from Lab 1 or lab 3. I also have the option to get it from one of my MA professor, however, he was a little hesitant about the fact that we were online.

Thanks!

 

[Justanothergrad]

Yeah thanks for clarifying.

I have contacts with three labs

Lab 1: my undergrad tech position from 2019- not so much productivity-was mainly data collection. 1.5 years.

Lab 2: Current lab i left because of funding expiration. However, I got about 2-3 pubs and currently still collaborating with them even though i am unemployed officially (the PIs stayed in contact with me and we still communicate science). Did 1 year- I am goign to ask for 2 letters (PI and Co-PI from another dept.)

Lab 3: I am about to join in October. I have been communicating with the PI since march and we clicked good- she contacted me after 4 months to ask if I am still interested in the position and I definitely agreed to take it and commit to it until I marticulate to a PhD program.

My third letter is in question as from where I should get it..either from Lab 1 or lab 3. I also have the option to get it from one of my MA professor, however, he was a little hesitant about the fact that we were online.

Thanks!

You should definitely have a letter from Lab 1 just for length of contact. Lab 2 is clearly the winner winner and those two letters will serve you best. I doubt the third letter will matter nearly as much in any way, so the longer contact just shows stability of personality and reliability.

 

[PsychPhDone]

Yeah thanks for clarifying.

I have contacts with three labs

Lab 1: my undergrad tech position from 2019- not so much productivity-was mainly data collection. 1.5 years.

Lab 2: Current lab i left because of funding expiration. However, I got about 2-3 pubs and currently still collaborating with them even though i am unemployed officially (the PIs stayed in contact with me and we still communicate science). Did 1 year- I am goign to ask for 2 letters (PI and Co-PI from another dept.)

Lab 3: I am about to join in October. I have been communicating with the PI since march and we clicked good- she contacted me after 4 months to ask if I am still interested in the position and I definitely agreed to take it and commit to it until I marticulate to a PhD program.

My third letter is in question as from where I should get it..either from Lab 1 or lab 3. I also have the option to get it from one of my MA professor, however, he was a little hesitant about the fact that we were online.

Thanks!

I'd go with lab 1. You can ask lab 3 if you really want but I personally would not write a letter with less than 6 months (I actually tell my staff/volunteers 1 year).

 

[Justanothergrad]

I actually tell my staff/volunteers 1 year

Ditto. This is in my lab agreements.

 

[MidWestLass]

Yeah thanks for clarifying.

I have contacts with three labs

Lab 1: my undergrad tech position from 2019- not so much productivity-was mainly data collection. 1.5 years.

Lab 2: Current lab i left because of funding expiration. However, I got about 2-3 pubs and currently still collaborating with them even though i am unemployed officially (the PIs stayed in contact with me and we still communicate science). Did 1 year- I am goign to ask for 2 letters (PI and Co-PI from another dept.)

Lab 3: I am about to join in October. I have been communicating with the PI since march and we clicked good- she contacted me after 4 months to ask if I am still interested in the position and I definitely agreed to take it and commit to it until I marticulate to a PhD program.

My third letter is in question as from where I should get it..either from Lab 1 or lab 3. I also have the option to get it from one of my MA professor, however, he was a little hesitant about the fact that we were online.

Thanks!

I agree. Lab 1 is much better. 3 years isn’t that long ago. Also, the new awesome position (congrats) will be reflected on your CV and SOP. You can include your new PI under a reference list in your CV if you like.

 

[NeuroPsychosis]

I agree. Lab 1 is much better. 3 years isn’t that long ago. Also, the new awesome position (congrats) will be reflected on your CV and SOP. You can include your new PI under a reference list in your CV if you like.

Thanks! I am definitely adding my new position to my CV and application - so programs know where am I going to be spending the year between applying and matriculation (gaining extra and new research experience)- I believe it should be to my benefits.

 

[NeuroPsychosis]

Hello folks,

I wanted to follow up on this inquiry I posted originally since now I am in the position asking for the letters of recs. The lab PI I volunteered for as an undergrad (aka lab 1) has suggested that I seek more newer letters and that she advised against her letter (even tho it is recommending and got me into an MA 2 years ago). I am getting this conflicting signals where you guys suggested that a letter from 2-3 years ago isn't too long if its accompanying 2 newer letters from current PIs (and stronger), however, the PI from that lab is suggesting I keep all my letters from current experiences and that asking for her letter will make it seem to adcoms that I ran out of people to ask.

Do you believe that this PI is somewhat old-school or just not perceiving the situation well?

If I ask for 3 new letters, is adding theirs as 4th will hurt my chances?

Thanks.

 

[summerbabe]

however, the PI from that lab is suggesting I keep all my letters from current experiences and that asking for her letter will make it seem to adcoms that I ran out of people to ask.

One possibility is that this PI believes they can’t write a ‘good’ letter for PhD admissions since you were primarily doing data collection for them, which could make for a really good letter for MA admissions but not much for a PhD app.

 

[NeuroPsychosis]

One possibility is that this PI believes they can’t write a ‘good’ letter for PhD admissions since you were primarily doing data collection for them, which could make for a really good letter for MA admissions but not much for a PhD app.

That was my initial feelings, I thought maybe this PI is trying to get me away from their letter (even tho her final message was that she is ready to send one if I wanted to elect hers)... potentially because PhD admissions may look at it as irrelevant to my current standing. We'll see, a professor from my MA program accepted to write me a letter..so i might consider that instead.