How many apps should I send for dermpath?

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Hello. I am applying to dermatopathology fellowships for 2010. How many programs is a reasonable number to apply to? There are about 45 programs, and not all are accepting (some accept every 2 years). I don't want to send to every single program but also want to send enough to get in.
 
Hello. I am applying to dermatopathology fellowships for 2010. How many programs is a reasonable number to apply to? There are about 45 programs, and not all are accepting (some accept every 2 years). I don't want to send to every single program but also want to send enough to get in.

are you from a top 5 pathology program?

If not, 20+. Im not joking either.
 
20+. I agree. And start early, they vary from taking people OVER 2 years ahead of time to close to a year ahead of time.

Even if you were from a top 5 program (whatever that means) it should remain the same. If you don't have a publication in derm I would apply to all of them.

The thing is, many programs only are going to interview 3-4 people for their spot. I wouldn't send in an application to a place I didn't want to go, of course.
 
20+. I agree. And start early, they vary from taking people OVER 2 years ahead of time to close to a year ahead of time.

Even if you were from a top 5 program (whatever that means) it should remain the same. If you don't have a publication in derm I would apply to all of them.

The thing is, many programs only are going to interview 3-4 people for their spot. I wouldn't send in an application to a place I didn't want to go, of course.

From speaking to people in my program who went through the hell of dermpath applications, I too got the impression that an applicant has to cast a wide net by submitting many applications. That being said, I don't know anyone who submitted a whoppin' 20 applications.
 
That may be true, it may be more a selective application process. 20+ may be excessive. At some point you probably reach diminishing returns - if you apply to like 20 and you don't get a spot, the reason is probably not because you should have applied to 25.
 
as a quick correlary, does one have to pay to apply to fellowships similar to the way one pays to apply to residency? if so, does the cost go up as one applies to more programs? my guess is yes to both questions, otherwise everyone would probably apply to every fellowship out there for the more competitive subspecialties like dermpath.
 
Hello. I am applying to dermatopathology fellowships for 2010. How many programs is a reasonable number to apply to? There are about 45 programs, and not all are accepting (some accept every 2 years). I don't want to send to every single program but also want to send enough to get in.

Every single program accepting apps....take my words of expereince!
 
as a quick correlary, does one have to pay to apply to fellowships similar to the way one pays to apply to residency? if so, does the cost go up as one applies to more programs? my guess is yes to both questions, otherwise everyone would probably apply to every fellowship out there for the more competitive subspecialties like dermpath.

There are some institutions (Mayo) that charge for fellowship applications, but most are just the cost of the stamp and the paper. Bear in mind of course that the vast majority will require you to pay your own airfare and hotel (there are exceptions).

But there is no common application form, so every application is generally individual. So it's harder and more tedious. There is no real extra cost to you to apply to more programs (other than the stamps). But after about the 20th stamp affixing I would imagine you'd start to wonder what the hell you were doing.

Sometimes it is worth your while to email or call programs and ask them if they are accepting applications and if so, when the deadline is. That will save you time.

Fellowship applications suck. No getting around it. Some programs do it very well, efficiently, on an appropriate timeline, and keep you informed of progress. But there are far more who act like pseudo-black holes into which applications are tossed, never to be heard from again apart from an occasional escaping ray of light. Unfortunately, you never know the exact time nor the duration which these rays will be available. And each black hole is an entity unto itself.

Oftentimes, from what i hear, the only contact after submitting the application is a form letter or email 6-9 months later which says the position has already been filled.
 
There are some institutions (Mayo) that charge for fellowship applications, but most are just the cost of the stamp and the paper. Bear in mind of course that the vast majority will require you to pay your own airfare and hotel (there are exceptions).

But there is no common application form, so every application is generally individual. So it's harder and more tedious. There is no real extra cost to you to apply to more programs (other than the stamps). But after about the 20th stamp affixing I would imagine you'd start to wonder what the hell you were doing.

Sometimes it is worth your while to email or call programs and ask them if they are accepting applications and if so, when the deadline is. That will save you time.

Fellowship applications suck. No getting around it. Some programs do it very well, efficiently, on an appropriate timeline, and keep you informed of progress. But there are far more who act like pseudo-black holes into which applications are tossed, never to be heard from again apart from an occasional escaping ray of light. Unfortunately, you never know the exact time nor the duration which these rays will be available. And each black hole is an entity unto itself.

Oftentimes, from what i hear, the only contact after submitting the application is a form letter or email 6-9 months later which says the position has already been filled.

Huh? Charge for fellowship applications?? FOR WHAT? FFS. That is an insult.
This isnt medical school...there is no job on Earth Im aware of that charges you to apply. Do they sit you down at the interview and use you as a departmental urinal during the AM conference as well?? FFS, what happens if someone needs to go no2??!
 
Huh? Charge for fellowship applications?? FOR WHAT? FFS. That is an insult.
This isnt medical school...there is no job on Earth Im aware of that charges you to apply. Do they sit you down at the interview and use you as a departmental urinal during the AM conference as well?? FFS, what happens if someone needs to go no2??!

LADoc00, I assume this is a rhetorical question...well, maybe not. (see, I read the posts)
 
i'm probably going to regret asking this, but LA, what's FFS?

yaah, thanks for that run down. your statement certainly illustrates why going to a residency with many in-house fellowships would be advantageous.
 
Huh? Charge for fellowship applications?? FOR WHAT? FFS. That is an insult.
This isnt medical school...there is no job on Earth Im aware of that charges you to apply. Do they sit you down at the interview and use you as a departmental urinal during the AM conference as well?? FFS, what happens if someone needs to go no2??!

I think it's an "application processing fee" or some such nonsense, as they use an online form.

Actually, it's a good way to keep out the riffraff. Would you want someone in your fellowship who didn't think it was worth the $15?

As for the departmental urinal thing, that I am not sure about. Perhaps one of our younger posters can check into that and get back to us. Far be it from me to judge people, but there is quite a substantial portion of the population who would actually pay to have someone urinate on them. So maybe that's not such a turnoff. But then again, people get turned on by all sorts of things, from silk sheets to sex on a bed of rusty nails to getting your scrotum pierced to listening to John Tesh. People are weird. I once knew a guy who thought it was interesting when someone took a dump on his face.
 
i think the above is yaah's attempt to "mix it up a little" as LA suggested. John Tesh, face poo... now that's some freaky stuff!

i wouldn't mind a small fellowship fee. there are administrative costs to deal with. what does piss me off is how ERAS charges higher amounts as you apply to more schools. like electronically sending the application to the 25th program "costs" ERAS any more than sending it to the first program.
 
I think it's an "application processing fee" or some such nonsense, as they use an online form.

Actually, it's a good way to keep out the riffraff. Would you want someone in your fellowship who didn't think it was worth the $15?

As for the departmental urinal thing, that I am not sure about. Perhaps one of our younger posters can check into that and get back to us. Far be it from me to judge people, but there is quite a substantial portion of the population who would actually pay to have someone urinate on them. So maybe that's not such a turnoff. But then again, people get turned on by all sorts of things, from silk sheets to sex on a bed of rusty nails to getting your scrotum pierced to listening to John Tesh. People are weird. I once knew a guy who thought it was interesting when someone took a dump on his face.

That's quite some imagery there. You've actually met people like this??? Wow!

Anyways, application fees for fellowships are nothing compared to the costs of flying out to various institutions and paying for hotel rooms. It's like interviewing for med schools and residency all over again. I guess it never ends.
 
i'm probably going to regret asking this, but LA, what's FFS?

yaah, thanks for that run down. your statement certainly illustrates why going to a residency with many in-house fellowships would be advantageous.
Fellowship Fees Suck.

Oh wait that's not it..
 
I think it's an "application processing fee" or some such nonsense, as they use an online form.

Actually, it's a good way to keep out the riffraff. Would you want someone in your fellowship who didn't think it was worth the $15?

As for the departmental urinal thing, that I am not sure about. Perhaps one of our younger posters can check into that and get back to us. Far be it from me to judge people, but there is quite a substantial portion of the population who would actually pay to have someone urinate on them. So maybe that's not such a turnoff. But then again, people get turned on by all sorts of things, from silk sheets to sex on a bed of rusty nails to getting your scrotum pierced to listening to John Tesh. People are weird. I once knew a guy who thought it was interesting when someone took a dump on his face.

Okay...I like this new Yaah, lets keep it up.

Go Mich
 
The horror...the horror...(shudders)

He has a nightly radio show now (maybe just on weekends, I don't know). He intersperses the music with little anecdotes, most of which are about health-related topics. http://www.tesh.com/ . Good heavens, he has a blog.

My mother listens to the show, so I know all about this. I am not sure how he has become such an authority on "living fit" but apparently that is one of the focuses of the show. He's almost annoying as that condescending **** Dr Oz who goes on Oprah wearing scrubs as if he just got out of the OR. My wife sometimes watches Oprah and she will attest to the fact that I have thrown serious nutties when I see Dr Oz on the show wearing his scrubs. I pity the future of the world when it is overrun by simpletons who are impressed with this and give what he says more weight simply because he is wearing scrubs. I tell my wife, "Oprah's show is filmed in Chicago. Dr Oz is from New York." And then I start steaming. The douchebag probably wears scrubs on the plane.
 
The hopefulls in our program are applying to ALL of them. It's 40 or 50 I think.
 
My wife sometimes watches Oprah and she will attest to the fact that I have thrown serious nutties when I see Dr Oz on the show wearing his scrubs.
When did you get married?!! Congrats.
 
Hello. I am applying to dermatopathology fellowships for 2010. How many programs is a reasonable number to apply to? There are about 45 programs, and not all are accepting (some accept every 2 years). I don't want to send to every single program but also want to send enough to get in.

You are correct regarding the fact that some programs are 2 year programs and do not take fellows every year. There are about 55-60 fellowship spots filled each year. Approximately fifty percent of the spots each year go to dermatology residents. That leaves about 27-30 spots in play for the over 500 pathology residents graduating annually along with graduates from previous years who are trying to get into dermpath after completing other fellowships. So how many programs do you think should apply to?
 
1. Apply for every single program, except for the cities you're unwilling to move to. actually, nm and apply to all of them.

2. You will not hear from 60% of them. ever.

3. Many months later, 30% will send you rejection letters in snail mail.

4. 10% may give you interviews, if you have publications and/or know some people.

5. If you're lucky (or a superstar), one will offer you a position.
 
So apply to anywhere between 20+ and all of them, and even then I might not get in. Got it.
 
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