How many hours do you plan on shadowing?

[danth0ny]

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I'm curious to see what everyone recommends and what their personal plans are. As for me, I am a CNA at a large academic hospital. I work on a Surg Onc/Urology unit and I have 10 hours shadowing a colo/rectal surgeon. I will be working at the hospital for at least 3 years and this surgeon says I am always welcome to shadow him. My question, is there too many hours to shadow? I figured I could attempt to shadow him as much as possible (especially over summer when I actually have free time), and that could lead to an awesome letter of recommendation. I'm thinking 100+ hours with this one surgeon. It's actually really enjoyable and he is a great teacher, so would adcoms look down on spending this much time with one specialty (probably a silly question).

I plan to network and shadow some other specialties and subspecialties such as neurosurgery, which will be next experience because our department is transitioning into surg onc/neurosurgery. If you have any other suggestions of things I should take advantage of while working in an academic hospital, then I would definitely listen!

 

[Wahed]

I also know a doctor who has offered me unlimited shadowing. I'm pretty much going to get as many hours as I can until he gets sick of me haha. Maybe I'll hit 100, who knows. I don't see how it could hurt, if anything I'd think it would help so long as you shadow other docs in other specialties as well.

I'm going to shoot for at least 3 docs in three different specialties, as well as a PA and an RN, and try to get at least 16 hours with each of them. From what I hear that should about cover it?

 

[TexasSurgeon]

I had around 70-85 hours. A lot of this stuff is subjective. More could have helped me, I think. But a bigger impact will be in the quality of those experiences and if you can write about them in a PS or talk about it during an interview.

 

[danth0ny]

I also know a doctor who has offered me unlimited shadowing. I'm pretty much going to get as many hours as I can until he gets sick of me haha. Maybe I'll hit 100, who knows. I don't see how it could hurt, if anything I'd think it would help so long as you shadow other docs in other specialties as well.

I'm going to shoot for at least 3 docs in three different specialties, as well as a PA and an RN, and try to get at least 16 hours with each of them. From what I hear that should about cover it?

I think that's a solid plan. That's about what I wanna do. Get as many hours with this doctor who's letting me shadow pretty much whenever, then network from there to other specialities including PA's.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I worked as an OR tech for 8 years and have been involved in Navy healthcare for the last couple. I shadowed a vascular surgeon for about 100 hours, shadowed a GMO for a bit, and am planning on shadowing a pediatrician for about 10-15 hours. I think shadowing gets into diminishing returns fairly quickly. I only shadowed the surgeon so much because he let me do a lot.

 

[danth0ny]

I had around 70-85 hours. A lot of this stuff is subjective. More could have helped me, I think. But a bigger impact will be in the quality of those experiences and if you can write about them in a PS or talk about it during an interview.

I think quality is key for sure. A lot of doctors don't give us CNA's the time of day to remember our name so the relationship I've built with one surgeon has really helped me network and meet some other docs. Now when I see them throughout the hospital they always say what's up and actually remember my name which is a great feeling. By the time I apply for Med school I think I'll have built some great relationships, and hopefully they will write a great letter of recommendation for myself when the time comes.

 

[danth0ny]

I worked as an OR tech for 8 years and have been involved in Navy healthcare for the last couple. I shadowed a vascular surgeon for about 100 hours, shadowed a GMO for a bit, and am planning on shadowing a pediatrician for about 10-15 hours. I think shadowing gets into diminishing returns fairly quickly. I only shadowed the surgeon so much because he let me do a lot.

Yeah, that was my thought as well. Eventually, the amount of hours won't matter when you get to a certain point. I've actually just really enjoyed it. Especially having an attending who is used to teaching residents anyway, I've learned a ton already.

 

[danth0ny]

Applicants often equate shadowing with overall healthcare experience, exposure or volunteering. Additionally they often get the ratios wromg

Shadowing is a passive, observational activity that you do for yourself.
Clinical volunteering or healthcare employment is an interactive endeavor that you do for others.


I generally advise about 50 hours (anywhere from 25 to 100) for shadowing and that should included some general medicine, primary care, etc docs.
I generally advise at least 150 hours each for both volunteering in a clinical setting (hospital, clinic, nursing home, hospice) and community service in non-clinical settings
If you are employed in healthcare, that exposure can be different.

AAMC surveys of medical schools over the past few years has documented the factors that schools look for in the following links

*https://www.aamc.org/download/434596/data/usingmcatdata2016.pdf#page=7
see page 3 (pdf p7) Table 1. Mean Importance Ratings of Academic, Experiential, and Demographic Application Data Used by Admissions Committees for Making Decisions about Which Applicants to Receive an Interview Invitation and Offer Acceptance (N=127)

** https://www.aamc.org/download/462316/data/2017mcatguide.pdf#page=9
See page 4 (pdf page 9) Table 1. Mean Importance Ratings of Academic, Experiential, Demographic, and Interview Data Used by Admissions Committees for Making Decisions about Which Applicants Receive Interview Invitations and Acceptance Offers (N=130)

Thanks for the advice! I will have a guaranteed 400 volunteer hours (currently have 100; we get 100 per college year) at a Children's hospital ED, and I absolutely love doing it. I'm just making sure I have enough hours shadowing to balance it out! Plus I need to find opportunities to volunteer in non-clinical settings as aforementioned.

 

[TexasSurgeon]

I think quality is key for sure. A lot of doctors don't give us CNA's the time of day to remember our name so the relationship I've built with one surgeon has really helped me network and meet some other docs. Now when I see them throughout the hospital they always say what's up and actually remember my name which is a great feeling. By the time I apply for Med school I think I'll have built some great relationships, and hopefully they will write a great letter of recommendation for myself when the time comes.

keep it up buddy 🙂

 

[bioboy23]

I worked as an OR tech for 8 years and have been involved in Navy healthcare for the last couple. I shadowed a vascular surgeon for about 100 hours, shadowed a GMO for a bit, and am planning on shadowing a pediatrician for about 10-15 hours. I think shadowing gets into diminishing returns fairly quickly. I only shadowed the surgeon so much because he let me do a lot.

Off topic... but I've been meaning to ask you, since you worked in a OR for so long before school, is that your primary area of focus? Or do you want to get as far away from it as possible? When I mention I may be interested in surgery to my coworkers, they either say that's awesome or they are like, 'why the hell would you do that after seeing it up close?' Just interested in what you're thinking.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Off topic... but I've been meaning to ask you, since you worked in a OR for so long before school, is that your primary area of focus? Or do you want to get as far away from it as possible? When I mention I may be interested in surgery to my coworkers, they either say that's awesome or they are like, 'why the hell would you do that after seeing it up close?' Just interested in what you're thinking.

I love surgery. I definitely want procedures to be a part of my practice. My only hang up with surgery is that after doing some primary care, I also really enjoy that. I like longitudinal care, patient education, and working up undifferentiated patients.

I've been looking at FM or EM lately because they involve procedures and primary care. That said, I do really love surgery and if I get into my surgical rotation and can't live without it, then it is what it is. The OR is a super special place.

I've been checking out gas too.

 

[bioboy23]

I love surgery. I definitely want procedures to be a part of my practice. My only hang up with surgery is that after doing some primary care, I also really enjoy that. I like longitudinal care, patient education, and working up undifferentiated patients.

I've been looking at FM or EM lately because they involve procedures and primary care. That said, I do really love surgery and if I get into my surgical rotation and can't live without it, then it is what it is. The OR is a super special place.

I've been checking out gas too.

It is such a special place! It's too cool. I'm not a huge fan of primary care but we will see how rotations go. I'm surprised you're looking at gas after seeing anesthesia up close-- I could never do it because they all seem very bored at my hospital. Could just be an isolated thing, though.

 

[Lawpy]

I generally advise about 50 hours (anywhere from 25 to 100) for shadowing and that should included some general medicine, primary care, etc docs.

Does this mean shadowing primary care is required? In other words, not shadowing specifically in this area = red flag?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

It is such a special place! It's too cool. I'm not a huge fan of primary care but we will see how rotations go. I'm surprised you're looking at gas after seeing anesthesia up close-- I could never do it because they all seem very bored at my hospital. Could just be an isolated thing, though.

It's not a huge contender. It doesn't have any longitudinal care, and while it is applied physiology, there really aren't any undifferentiated patients to work up. I like the procedures, but that's about it. It looks boring from the outside, but I've seen what happens when a patient torpedoes and who really is the person keeping them alive.

Primary care is a strange place. I never thought I'd like it, but I found I really enjoy patient education. There are definitely really frustrating parts to it, but working someone up, giving them an answer and a solution, and then educating them on it is very rewarding. It's also nice to follow up with them and find out their doing better.

 

[bioboy23]

It's not a huge contender. It doesn't have any longitudinal care, and while it is applied physiology, there really aren't any undifferentiated patients to work up. I like the procedures, but that's about it. It looks boring from the outside, but I've seen what happens when a patient torpedoes and who really is the person keeping them alive.

Primary care is a strange place. I never thought I'd like it, but I found I really enjoy patient education. There are definitely really frustrating parts to it, but working someone up, giving them an answer and a solution, and then educating them on it is very rewarding. It's also nice to follow up with them and find out their doing better.

I feel ya. I have seen a patient die on the table but it was due to 8 GSWs and anesthesia couldn't do anything.

My uncle had a few friends in his class who were gunning for ortho (surprise) then they turned out matching FM, so we'll see!

Thats awesome though man! Just been wanting to ask you what you were thinking. Good luck and I hope to work with you in the future!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I feel ya. I have seen a patient die on the table but it was due to 8 GSWs and anesthesia couldn't do anything.

I didn't really work in the knife and gun club district. We had some traumas, but they were pretty minor for the most part. Only patient I've seen die was a super old dude with tamponade who died during a window. He was a murderer who came to us from the prison, but I still felt bad.

My uncle had a few friends in his class who were gunning for ortho (surprise) then they turned out matching FM, so we'll see!

Funny how when board scores come back, a lot of people realize their passion for primary care.

Thats awesome though man! Just been wanting to ask you what you were thinking. Good luck and I hope to work with you in the future!

Likewise!

 

[miniman]

56. That is the max I can do between two hospital systems around here (they own virtually all practices around here)... (40 for one, 16 for the other (this is one of the best pediatric hospitals in the south east))

 

[bioboy23]

I didn't really work in the knife and gun club district. We had some traumas, but they were pretty minor for the most part. Only patient I've seen die was a super old dude with tamponade who died during a window. He was a murderer who came to us from the prison, but I still felt bad.



Funny how when board scores come back, a lot of people realize their passion for primary care.



Likewise!

By the way, I love the username. I had to grab my bible and check which one it was though 😉