How many letters are generic, usually?

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LoveBeingHuman:)

On average, what is the rate at which you get a generic letter, glowing letter, average between those two, and a slightly negative letter?
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I asked my thesis advisor and old professor to write me a letter, a couple months later I said, “btw thanks for the letter”, he responded “what letter?”
 
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LoveBeingHuman:) said:
On average, what is the rate at which you get a generic letter, glowing letter, average between those two, and a slightly negative letter?
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You should never get a negative letter. That's on the letter writer.
 
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I would actually love to know which of my letters were good vs just basic. Everyone I've had write a letter for me, for the most part, knew a decent amount of information about me but I still wonder if any of my physician letters were the "insert name here" type. Fortunately I've always had a committee to work with so I'm pretty sure I have had at least one well written letter! I would be extremely interested in reading it sometime which I guess will never happen, though!
 
Do something that no one else does and you stand out easily. Attending lecture and doing well, anyone can do that. Participating in lecture and asking good question is something people seem to lack a pair in. Stay in touch with them and so on.

For example, the physician who will write me a letter, their coworkers have told them I ask a lot of good questions, and I even got invited to a retirement party for someone in that department.
 
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LoveBeingHuman:) said:
The other 15%?
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5% are damning. We got one this cycle that went something like this: "JC was a student in our Master's program. He failed to meet the minimum grades or participation necessary for a committee letter. He nevertheless demanded that we write a letter for his application. Consider this a response to that request."

The other 10% (usually committee letters) add depth and dimension that can only be done by an experienced and well-informed group of evaluators and writers.
 
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gyngyn said:
5% are damning. We got one this cycle that went something like this: "JC was a student in our Master's program. He failed to meet the minimum grades or participation necessary for a committee letter. He nevertheless demanded that we write a letter for his application. Consider this a response to that request.'

The others (usually committee letters) add depth and dimension that can only be done by an experienced and well-informed group of evaluators and writers.
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O_O................

Someone can write a letter like that?! O_____________O

Usually people refuse. But wow. Talk about damning a person forever.
 
gyngyn said:
5% are damning. We got one this cycle that went something like this: "JC was a student in our Master's program. He failed to meet the minimum grades or participation necessary for a committee letter. He nevertheless demanded that we write a letter for his application. Consider this a response to that request.'

The others (usually committee letters) add depth and dimension that can only be done by an experienced and well-informed group of evaluators and writers.
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How was the rest of this person's application?
 
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gyngyn said:
5% are damning. We got one this cycle that went something like this: "JC was a student in our Master's program. He failed to meet the minimum grades or participation necessary for a committee letter. He nevertheless demanded that we write a letter for his application. Consider this a response to that request.'

The others (usually committee letters) add depth and dimension that can only be done by an experienced and well-informed group of evaluators and writers.
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I am beginning to see why committee letters are so valued. But, still. In most cases, most of the committee members don't even meet students (apart from interview if the school requires one), so I cannot help but wonder how and why.

EDIT: Maybe they take the generic inputs from individual letters and add depth into it from the applicant's committee letter application.
 
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Psych_hopeful said:
Didn't know others can seriously hurt you like that though. That letter is damaging..........
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Again, demanding a letter. Letters are something people write during their spare time to help you. If they believe they can't write you one, don't force it. That's why I ask for letters as soon as I have finished a class, research, etc with them and stay on top of my pool.

EDIT: Demanding is only two letters shy from damning.
 
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infectiousdisease101 said:
Again, demanding a letter. Letters are something people write during their spare time to help you. If they believe they can't write you one, don't force it. That's why I ask for letters as soon as I have finished a class, research, etc with them and stay on top of my pool.

EDIT: Demanding is only two letters shy from damning.
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So I guess being a jerk should mean getting treated like a jerk. Seems legit.
 
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"JC" is not going to sniff an interview at any school ... he probably wasn't going to anyways if his performance in a grad program was so bad, but still that's harsh :punch:
 
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PhiGamDoc said:
"JC" is not going to sniff an interview at any school ... he probably wasn't going to anyways if his performance in a grad program was so bad, but still that's harsh :punch:
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This is what happens when people expect handouts.
 
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Psych_hopeful said:
Well, life sucks.

I still think they should have refused, but if the student insisted, well...do stupid things, expect stupid results.
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I have no sympathy for people like that. They say be careful what you wish for.

Besides, physicians are taught to treat the patient, not the condition. Rather than refuse him and treat his condition as a hopeless applicant, they treated his condition of being insistent on a committee letter.
 
I once got a letter from my supervisor about two weeks after a coworker asked him too. She was asking for a government position, I was asking for some healthcare program at a school. Two very different letters that probably demand a little time and energy to reflect what's important, you know, some differences, personalities, skillsets, things of that nature.

Well, that time and energy was used well. We compared our letters (we were discussing our letters a few weeks later) because they sounded really similar. Three adjectives were changed; "So and so is a [x],[x], and[x] worker who..."

It was pretty good.

To answer the question, I feel like it correlates to the person's knowing you. If you regularly engaged the person, saw them, etc., then a pretty good review may be coming, provided they know you as different, in a good way. Average would be the type to come to class, do well, and that's it. Negatives should never be a thing; if that's the person being asked, either you done messed up your ideas about the state of that relationship, or they're feeling really salty at the moment.
 
PashaOdesit said:
why were you reading that letter anyways?
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The student has to forfeit their right to access the letters that were uploaded. That doesn't mean the letter writer can let them view it beforehand. I can't help but wonder how you are not aware of this.
 
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PashaOdesit said:
why were you reading that letter anyways?
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I've never seen my medical letters or AMCAS letters, nor do I want to. I have faith that they were good, and have no interest in seeing them.

My supervisor was not the best and wrote us both "separate" letters of recommendation for some random basic jobs/programs. He gave us copies to proof them (this should have been a hint, but alas, undergrad youth and stupidity).
 
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PashaOdesit said:
I am

That was not my question.

I didn't ask how

I can't help but wonder why you answer question before reading it.
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Pretty sure "how" was the more accurate word. Besides, why he was reading it was none of our business.
 
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Well this thread was hijacked. Here, let me render assistance (just be sure to thank me for my service).

Infectious, you have a point. In fairness, pasha did ask "why", not "how".

Pasha, you have a point. In fairness, I did answer your question before you asked your initial question.
 
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Thanks and apologies for getting out of hand.

Back to the topic, I am officially convinced no committee letter gives you a massive disadvantage, even if your school doesn't write any.
 
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infectiousdisease101 said:
Thanks and apologies for getting out of hand.

Back to the topic, I am officially convinced no committee letter gives you a massive disadvantage, even if your school doesn't write any.
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I feel the same way, as the CL ties it all together nicely. What I'd like to believe is that the adcoms see applicants w/o university committees, and by extension no committee letters, the same. And if there is some hidden bias behind not having the committee letter, the adcoms can effectively fight their bias and give a fair shake.
 
Lots of people claim no biasm, but there's always biasm. Especially when a CL gives you a more comprehensive evaluation so there's less risk involved in accepting an applicant. Also, no individual is bias/subjective free. I try hard to be objective and bias free but even I have times where I am biased, only a small amount, but still.
 
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tiramisucheese said:
How was the rest of this person's application?
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Really, really weak. The only reason I remember the application is that we got a letter from a trustee of the university telling us what a fine family he came from this week!
 
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Does anyone know what percentage of schools use a committee letter? Mine did not, so I had individual letters as did my friend applying this cycle. I don't think that this was a deterrent for my application... Can we really be penalized for not being able to come up with a committee letter that's not even offered? I find that hard to believe.
 
tiramisucheese said:
Does anyone know what percentage of schools use a committee letter? Mine did not, so I had individual letters as did my friend applying this cycle. I don't think that this was a deterrent for my application... Can we really be penalized for not being able to come up with a committee letter that's not even offered? I find that hard to believe.
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No, it only becomes an issue when you have a school that provides a committee letter and you don't or can't use it.
 
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151 others said:
No, it only becomes an issue when you have a school that provides a committee letter and you don't or can't use it.
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Right, that's what I thought, but this person seems to think otherwise:

infectiousdisease101 said:
Thanks and apologies for getting out of hand.

Back to the topic, I am officially convinced no committee letter gives you a massive disadvantage, even if your school doesn't write any.
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151 others said:
No, it only becomes an issue when you have a school that provides a committee letter and you don't or can't use it.
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So they say, but gyngyn said usually the letter that adds depth and dimension to an applicant is a committee letter. If two applicants have the same exact qualities and stats apply: one uses a committee letter and one doesn't use it because their school doesn't write it, the committee letter applicant will be more likely to be accepted as the committee letter will draw on those qualities and make it known to adcoms whereas the one without the committee letter is more than likely to have generic letters that lack depth and dimension.

gyngyn said it him or herself, the letter that adds dimension and depth is usually a committee letter. Also, AAMC shows at post-interview letters are the most important factor on whether to accept or reject.

Besides, most school require or display a preference if your school writes one. Do you honestly believe they will show absolutely no biasm? Even if another applicant is from a school without a committee letter? No human is biased free. This is just a conclusion I'm drawing from what gyngyn said, keep that in mind.

https://www.aamc.org/download/261106/data/
 
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infectiousdisease101 said:
So they say, but gyngyn said usually the letter that adds depth and dimension to an applicant is a committee letter. If two applicants have the same exact qualities and stats apply: one uses a committee letter and one doesn't use it because their school doesn't write it, the committee letter applicant will be more likely to be accepted as the committee letter will draw on those qualities and make it known to adcoms whereas the one without the committee letter is more than likely to have generic letters that lack depth and dimension.

gyngyn said it him or herself, the letter that adds dimension and depth is usually a committee letter. Also, AAMC shows at post-interview letters are the most important factor on whether to accept or reject.

Besides, most school require or display a preference if your school writes one. Do you honestly believe they will show absolutely no biasm? Even if another applicant is from a school without a committee letter? No human is biased free.

https://www.aamc.org/download/261106/data/
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I'm not sure I agree with that, but I'll leave it to the adcom members to confirm. Just fyi, biasm is not a real word.
 
I always thought it was a word. My bad.

Either way, you don't agree, yet can't provide a counter-argument. So that means this probably isn't far off from the truth. But let's see what adcom members have to say about this. I doubt they would straight up say I'm right, if I am. I hope to be wrong because ideally, I want everyone to have a fair shot, but realistically, we know that's not how the world works.
 
infectiousdisease101 said:
I always thought it was a word. My bad.

Either way, you don't agree, yet can't provide a counter-argument. So that means this probably isn't far off from the truth. But let's see what adcom members have to say about this. I doubt they would straight up say I'm right, if I am. I hope to be wrong because ideally, I want everyone to have a fair shot, but realistically, we know that's not how the world works.
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I don't engage in arguments with people who like to have arguments for the sake of arguing :)
 
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infectiousdisease101 said:
If two applicants have the same exact qualities and stats apply: one uses a committee letter and one doesn't use it because their school doesn't write it, the committee letter applicant will be more likely to be accepted as the committee letter will draw on those qualities and make it known to adcoms whereas the one without the committee letter is more than likely to have generic letters that lack depth and dimension.
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It's never that myopic. Besides, letters don't get you accepted, letters get you interviewed.
 
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In general, if you do not have a committee at your school or program, you need to have the wherewithal to decide how you want to characterized. It's no different than your PS. For instance:

When I applied, I was over 7 years removed from undergrad and had no connections back to that world. Getting a UG non-science letter was a non-starter. I decided to instead ask my boss, the president of the company, who I had worked for the past 4.5 years. He would speak of my work ethic, professionalism, etc. We had a post-bacc advisor that had run our program for 20 years and we had to meet with twice a semester and update with our work, ECs, etc. He knew I had a 3.85 while still working full-time, he would comment on my ability to handle the time management and rigors of medical school. My only non-A was a B+ in O.Chem, I got my professor in that class to write a letter. I had gotten a 51 on my first exam and came to his office hours every Tues/Thurs for the remainder of the course. He would write about resilience, dedication, etc. I also had two other letters, a bio prof and my PI.

Now I knew what each wrote about because I met with each of them for at least 30 min to an hour and they asked me. Maybe I'm the odd ball because I'm older, balding and they saw me in a different light than they do a 20 year old junior. Regardless here's the tl:hungover:r - If you make the effort to know your professors and letter writers, you will get more productive letters.
 
CyrilFiggis said:
In general, if you do not have a committee at your school or program, you need to have the wherewithal to decide how you want to characterized. It's no different than your PS. For instance:

When I applied, I was over 7 years removed from undergrad and had no connections back to that world. Getting a UG non-science letter was a non-starter. I decided to instead ask my boss, the president of the company, who I had worked for the past 4.5 years. He would speak of my work ethic, professionalism, etc. We had a post-bacc advisor that had run our program for 20 years and we had to meet with twice a semester and update with our work, ECs, etc. He knew I had a 3.85 while still working full-time, he would comment on my ability to handle the time management and rigors of medical school. My only non-A was a B+ in O.Chem, I got my professor in that class to write a letter. I had gotten a 51 on my first exam and came to his office hours every Tues/Thurs for the remainder of the course. He would write about resilience, dedication, etc. I also had two other letters, a bio prof and my PI.

Now I knew what each wrote about because I met with each of them for at least 30 min to an hour and they asked me. Maybe I'm the odd ball because I'm older, balding and they saw me in a different light than they do a 20 year old junior. Regardless here's the tl:hungover:r - If you make the effort to know your professors and letter writers, you will get more productive letters.
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I see. Thanks for the insight. ^_^

But I also know CLs run 3-5 pages while most run one so that really made me wonder just how much difference in depth and detail CLs have and the fact gyngyn said 85% are generic. Maybe I am wrong after all.
 
infectiousdisease101 said:
I see. Thanks for the insight. ^_^

But I also know CLs run 3-5 pages while most run one so that really made me wonder just how much difference in depth and detail CLs have and the fact gyngyn said 85% are generic. Maybe I am wrong after all.
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Whereas it is possible that individual letter writers might have the experience and knowledge to write a powerful letter, in practice, it is uncommon.
Many applicants are considered despite "usual quality" LoE's. If we only interviewed applicants with really good letters, the class would go way more than half unfilled!
 
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gyngyn said:
Whereas it is possible that individual letter writers might have the experience and knowledge to write a powerful letter, in practice, it is uncommon.
Many applicants are considered despite "usual quality" LoE's. If we only interviewed applicants with really good letters, the class would go way more than half unfilled!
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Thank God I'm wrong. Glad to see everyone has pretty close to a fair shot.
 
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