How many of the 50k applicants a year are just flat-out delusional?

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bluegreen91

bluegreen91

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Around 40% of applicants get in. Another significant portion don't get in due to applying late, scanty clinical experiences, not enough valuable ECs, legal problems or IAs and things that could be fixed with the exception of possibly the last one.

Occasionally I hear of these 1.7 GPA and 19 MCAT people applying to medical school and I honestly don't understand. Are they delusional? Why would they even bother? Do they make up a large percentage of those 50,000 applicants?
 
Are they delusional? Yes probably. Also I believe these stats also count Puerto Rican Medical schools, some of which had an average MCAT ~22 IIRC.
 
PantherPride said:
You can check out this table.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstable24.pdf

out of the 5,000 people that applied with a <18 MCAT the past few years, 40 get in.
Click to expand...

That's ridiculous. Those schools are not doing them any favors. They are extremely at risk for failing boards.

I can understand someone who had a 2.5 GPA because they failed over 30 credits when they first started but had exemplary performance after that and a 35 MCAT, but not an 18 MCAT.
 
I'd say 50% of applicants have no business setting foot on a med school campus, except as a standardized patient. The wise gyngyn has written about having to read apps from people who have single digit MCAT scores. Not just in a single category...the entire exam!

I once asked our own wily old Admissions dean if he had to do anything like this, and he just shook his head and said "don't ask"!

The mentality shows up here in SDN by people who post things like "You never know" or "I'll applied just for giggles" or any other variation of "nothing ventured, nothing gained". I'll wager a decent number of these people have tiger parents as well (who come in all colors and cultures).

A good number of these people do absolutely no research into applying, and so apply to schools for which they have 0% chance of getting into, like lily white kids aiming for the HBCs, and OOS people applying to MCG or Mercer.

When I was in UG, I had a friend who thought that sheer determination would make up for his <3.0 GPA. It didn't.

To quote the great HL Mencken, "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

bluegreen91 said:
Around 40% of applicants get in. Another significant portion don't get in due to applying late, scanty clinical experiences, not enough valuable ECs, legal problems or IAs and things that could be fixed with the exception of possibly the last one.

Occasionally I hear of these 1.7 GPA and 19 MCAT people applying to medical school and I honestly don't understand. Are they delusional? Why would they even bother? Do they make up a large percentage of those 50,000 applicants?
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, but think of the good that their large donation checks must have bought! When I see an 18 MCAT getting into an MD school, I think "legacy".


I can understand someone who had a 2.5 GPA because they failed over 30 credits when they first started but had exemplary performance after that and a 35 MCAT, but not an 18 MCAT.
 
But this is our society now. Participation ribbons all around; you can do anything, and never let anyone tell you otherwise. As for those who do, we'll label them racist, sexist, insert -ist, bully, etc. Expect to see more delusions. Damn millennials.
 
Goro said:
Yeah, but think of the good that their large donation checks must have bought! When I see an 18 MCAT getting into an MD school, I think "legacy".


I can understand someone who had a 2.5 GPA because they failed over 30 credits when they first started but had exemplary performance after that and a 35 MCAT, but not an 18 MCAT.
Click to expand...
Yeah, those are your TRUE legacy kids... I love the posts:
My brother went to undergrad, so I'm legacy (And we paid cash)
My uncle received his BA in philosophy, I'm legacy
Etc

No wing, no library, no gold plaque OR if the dean doesn't come to your Christmas Eve party, I'd bet on no
 
Exactly! The connections like these might get one a polite interview, followed rapidly by a polite spot on the low wait list.

Grace184 said:
Yeah, those are your TRUE legacy kids... I love the posts:
My brother went to undergrad, so I'm legacy (And we paid cash)
My uncle received his BA in philosophy, I'm legacy
Etc

No wing, no library, no gold plaque OR if the dean doesn't come to your Christmas Eve party, I'd bet on no
Click to expand...
 
Grace184 said:
Yeah, those are your TRUE legacy kids... I love the posts:
My brother went to undergrad, so I'm legacy (And we paid cash)
My uncle received his BA in philosophy, I'm legacy
Etc

No wing, no library, no gold plaque OR if the dean doesn't come to your Christmas Eve party, I'd bet on no
Click to expand...
The definition of legacy is having a family member who attended or attends the school. It has nothing to do with donations
 
PantherPride said:
You can check out this table.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstable24.pdf

out of the 5,000 people that applied with a <18 MCAT the past few years, 40 get in.
Click to expand...
image.png
 
I recently heard of someone applying to a top-20 with an MCAT below 10
 
efle said:
The definition of legacy is having a family member who attended or attends the school. It has nothing to do with donations
Click to expand...
Thank you. And I was giviving frivolous examples of generic/meaningless legacy vs true connections which often hold a legacy and donation component.
I appreciate your time.
Edit: and you can always feel free to give me definitions of elementary words so that SDN users know that you understand the meaning
 
Goro said:
I'd say 50% of applicants have no business setting foot on a med school campus, except as a standardized patient. The wise gyngyn has written about having to read apps from people who have single digit MCAT scores. Not just in a single category...the entire exam!

I once asked our own wily old Admissions dean if he had to do anything like this, and he just shook his head and said "don't ask"!

The mentality shows up here in SDN by people who post things like "You never know" or "I'll applied just for giggles" or any other variation of "nothing ventured, nothing gained". I'll wager a decent number of these people have tiger parents as well (who come in all colors and cultures).

A good number of these people do absolutely no research into applying, and so apply to schools for which they have 0% chance of getting into, like lily white kids aiming for the HBCs, and OOS people applying to MCG or Mercer.

When I was in UG, I had a friend who thought that sheer determination would make up for his <3.0 GPA. It didn't.

To quote the great HL Mencken, "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
Click to expand...

My UG is one of the whitest schools around (we're in an area that is pretty racially homogeneous with a similarly homogeneous niche - I swear we're not racists!!!!) and I always laugh when the stats come out and I see the number of people from our school who apply to Morehouse. People need to do their research!

I've wondered this myself - people always quote to me the relatively low admissions statistics, but when you look at it, a lot of the applicants really, truly don't understand what they're doing. Still more of them fall below the basic cutoffs for GPA and MCAT. If you are a reasonably strong applicant, it would seem that only a fraction of the people applying are actually going head to head with you over your seat.
 
Grace184 said:
Thank you. And I was giviving frivolous examples of generic/meaningless legacy vs true connections which often hold a legacy and donation component.
I appreciate your time.
Edit: and you can always feel free to give me definitions of elementary words so that SDN users know that you understand the meaning
Click to expand...
Just pointing out that the circlejerk you and goro had going was based on misuse of the term. For example, you mentioned "My brother went to undergrad, so I'm legacy" as an example of someone grasping at straws...but that is an exact definition of being legacy and it would help him to mention it.

And, get over yourself. Being corrected doesn't mean you need to start launching personal attacks. Christ. Besides I'm the last person to need ego boosting 😉
 
I wouldn't say I know many that are that delusional to apply with terrible stats and no knowledge of the medical field... BUT I know plenty who haven't done any research on medical school admissions that are applying. When I speak to them about schools and secondaries, they look at me like a deer in headlights. I have no right boasting about myself, but am I really applying against some of these people?
 
UNMedGa said:
My UG is one of the whitest schools around (we're in an area that is pretty racially homogeneous with a similarly homogeneous niche - I swear we're not racists!!!!) and I always laugh when the stats come out and I see the number of people from our school who apply to Morehouse. People need to do their research!

I've wondered this myself - people always quote to me the relatively low admissions statistics, but when you look at it, a lot of the applicants really, truly don't understand what they're doing. Still more of them fall below the basic cutoffs for GPA and MCAT. If you are a reasonably strong applicant, it would seem that only a fraction of the people applying are actually going head to head with you over your seat.
Click to expand...
Jeeze, they must not have even read the Morehouse mission statement, it has "emphasis on people of color" right there in it
 
efle said:
Jeeze, they must not have even read the Morehouse mission statement, it has "emphasis on people of color" right there in it
Click to expand...

We're pretty far away from Atlanta, so I think most of these people probably just go on findthebest.com or something and build their school lists using those stats without giving much thought to the schools themselves. Most people out here probably haven't heard of Morehouse.
 
efle said:
Just pointing out that the circlejerk you and goro had going was based on misuse of the term. For example, you mentioned "My brother went to undergrad, so I'm legacy" as an example of someone grasping at straws...but that is an exact definition of being legacy and it would help him to mention it.

And, get over yourself. Being corrected doesn't mean you need to start launching personal attacks. Christ. Besides I'm the last person to need ego boosting 😉
Click to expand...
Whatever you say, you're always right, just like on all your other threads. You're so full of yourself it's ridiculous and nauseating. And I think Goro knows more about the application process than you, but you undoubtedly won't accept that.
 
Grace184 said:
Whatever you say, you're always right, just like on all your other threads. You're so full of yourself it's ridiculous and nauseating. And I think Goro knows more about the application process than you, but you undoubtedly won't accept that.
Click to expand...
efle said:
Just pointing out that the circlejerk you and goro had going was based on misuse of the term. For example, you mentioned "My brother went to undergrad, so I'm legacy" as an example of someone grasping at straws...but that is an exact definition of being legacy and it would help him to mention it.

And, get over yourself. Being corrected doesn't mean you need to start launching personal attacks. Christ. Besides I'm the last person to need ego boosting 😉
Click to expand...

...:corny:...
 
Grace184 said:
Whatever you say, you're always right, just like on all your other threads. You're so full of yourself it's ridiculous and nauseating. And I think Goro knows more about the application process than you, but you undoubtedly won't accept that.
Click to expand...
Oh come on now, I'm full of **** half the time and arguing just for the sake of it. I don't disagree with Goro's statements, just yours, because claiming legacy from having your brother at a school is not a laughable statement
 
efle said:
Sorry to disappoint, I don't get as worked up as some other frequent posters. Whatever happened to DermViser anyways
Click to expand...

You hardly disappointed me! Always fun to watch people pointlessly attack each other.

Just for the record, your response about the legacy comment is something Goro would call an "insipid truth." The type of legacy you gave by definition is quite meaningless unless you have good stats. However, if you are the son/daughter of a big-time donor, then it's quite a bit different. You know this. I know you're just being a smartass, but still. YOU'RE WRONG, EFLE. WRONG!
 
HCHopeful said:
You hardly disappointed me! Always fun to watch people pointlessly attack each other.

Just for the record, your response about the legacy comment is something Goro would call an "insipid truth." The type of legacy you gave by definition is quite meaningless unless you have good stats. However, if you are the son/daughter of a big-time donor, then it's quite a bit different. You know this. I know you're just being a smartass, but still. YOU'RE WRONG, EFLE. WRONG!
Click to expand...
I know, that's why I miss Dermie! He used to have fights for pages

I was very wrong, thought it was the part about having a brother there that was a funny claim to legacy

Grace184 said:
Look, I had a crap day, took it out on you...my bad. I do know you love to argue and I've seen it in action haha! Can we drop the BS and just be good?
Click to expand...
Dude with me everybody always good
 
MrChance2 said:
Are they delusional? Yes probably. Also I believe these stats also count Puerto Rican Medical schools, some of which had an average MCAT ~22 IIRC.
Click to expand...

That's horrible. I mean, surely adcoms must know that a whole lot of applicants (if not all of them) with scores that low are just not cut out to be physicians.
 
It doesn't matter if you have a 1.8/15 and have connections. You will fail the boards.
 
I'm not surprised by single digit applicants. It's basically the same thing as when people try out for American Idol or something not realizing they sing like feral cats. Dunning-Kruger effect, right?
 
@Goro, how would you typically define those who "have no business applying"? I think it's fairly safe to say that (for MD schools, and assuming a traditional student with a typical college experience), all of these would qualify as "no business applying": cGPA and sGPA of less than 3.3 or so, MCAT less than 27, IA for cheating/theft/plagiarism/other more "severe" actions, conviction record (other than traffic violations), inability to communicate in a manner acceptable to the average adult, or no clinical experience to speak of.

Is there anything you can think of that's not included in there?
 
blackroses said:
@Goro, how would you typically define those who "have no business applying"? I think it's fairly safe to say that (for MD schools, and assuming a traditional student with a typical college experience), all of these would qualify as "no business applying": cGPA and sGPA of less than 3.3 or so, MCAT less than 27, IA for cheating/theft/plagiarism/other more "severe" actions, conviction record (other than traffic violations), inability to communicate in a manner acceptable to the average adult, or no clinical experience to speak of.

Is there anything you can think of that's not included in there?
Click to expand...
Eh, I think those numbers should be changed. No business to me means it would take a near miracle to get an interview, nonetheless an acceptance. I would say MCAT <20, GPA (both) under 2.8, 2 or more IAs, any felonies, zero extracurriculars, never been in a hospital.

The MCAT is only so low because there are a few US MD schools that have averages in the mid to low twenties (the Puerto Rican schools come to mind) so a sizeable part of their class might have MCATS in the 21-3 range.
 
blackroses said:
@Goro, how would you typically define those who "have no business applying"? I think it's fairly safe to say that (for MD schools, and assuming a traditional student with a typical college experience), all of these would qualify as "no business applying": cGPA and sGPA of less than 3.3 or so, MCAT less than 27, IA for cheating/theft/plagiarism/other more "severe" actions, conviction record (other than traffic violations), inability to communicate in a manner acceptable to the average adult, or no clinical experience to speak of.

Is there anything you can think of that's not included in there?
Click to expand...
There are people with less than 3.3 GPAs doing just fine in med school, and there are many DO schools with half the class or more below a 27 MCAT...
 
efle said:
There are people with less than 3.3 GPAs doing just fine in med school, and there are many DO schools with half the class or more below a 27 MCAT...
Click to expand...

Agreed. I would say a 3.0 is more of a realistic cutoff. a 3.3 is a B+. That is not terrible.
 
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