How many of you write reflective papers in school?

[RynoTheGuy]

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It seems that my school has us write an inordinate amount of fluffy, feel-goody reflective papers on various experiences. We have at least one for every clerkship and clinical experience, along with several for guest lecturers, etc. It just feels like a massive waste of time. It's honestly driving me nuts. Just curious how many of you out there have to write them?

 

[syma]

We have to. My first essay only just about passed because I was not reflective enough, but the essay was well constructed.

 

[arfc6]

They are the worst. I can vomit one out in five minutes though.

 

[PL198]

Imagine after you write a reflective paper and someone tells you it's wrong. No amount of .jpeg can qualify that moment.

 

[Psai]

We have some optional ones if you do a volunteer activity but not mandatory.

 

[punkedoutriffs]

Lol, man that sucks. Can you reflect on how sh*tty it is that you have to write these papers? Or is that too meta for these ppl?

 

[coffeesnob]

yeah they require us to do stupid **** like that. i hate it. our assignments are usually about medical ethics.

 

[Cytarabine]

Imagine after you write a reflective paper and someone tells you it's wrong. No amount of .jpeg can qualify that moment.

 

[chillaxbro]

Oh my god I thought I was done with the bs papers after getting into med school. Guess I was wrong

 

[justAstudent]

Is this common for all schools?

 

[atomi]

It's funny looking back to high school and college when I would spend days toiling and agonizing over a 2 page double spaced paper and weeks working on a 5 page research paper. We had these reflective essays in med school as well, and I could get them done in half an hour and not even worry about it.

 

[DermViser]

It seems that my school has us write an inordinate amount of fluffy, feel-goody reflective papers on various experiences. We have at least one for every clerkship and clinical experience, along with several for guest lecturers, etc. It just feels like a massive waste of time. It's honestly driving me nuts. Just curious how many of you out there have to write them?

Depends on the content. It's usually on the more "soft" parts of the curriculum - medical ethics, humanism/compassion in medicine, yada yada.

If they put as much effort in improving their basic science curriculum and effectively addressing student's concerns about Step 1 they'd probably be happier students. That being said, I'm sure there are certain vocal students who love this type of ****.

 

[PL198]

Depends on the content. It's usually on the more "soft" parts of the curriculum - medical ethics, humanism/compassion in medicine, yada yada.

If they put as much effort in improving their basic science curriculum and effectively addressing student's concerns about Step 1 they'd probably be happier students. That being said, I'm sure there are certain vocal students who love this type of ****.

Funny how those students always end up being the faculty favorites....

 

[AlmostAnMD]

A few of our core rotations require them. I don't mind them I guess, but what perplexes me is that they're actually GRADED, and often you won't get full credit.

 

[Serous Demilune]

wait, this crap continues on in the clinical years?!! **** THAT

 

[PL198]

wait, this crap continues on in the clinical years?!! **** THAT

lol I view clinical years as the magical ones in which the BS stops and it's actually about being a doctor, guess not. BACK TO PONDERING ON THE ABSTRACT MEANING OF THE COLOR OF MY CLOTHES ON THE AVERAGE DAY

 

[DermViser]

A few of our core rotations require them. I don't mind them I guess, but what perplexes me is that they're actually GRADED, and often you won't get full credit.

Wow, that's terrible, but not surprising. More and more it seems like MS-3 students are pulled away from actual clinical responsibility by their schools for "lecture" or "self-reflection" and then are completely unprepared for internship.

 

[PL198]

Wow, that's terrible, but not surprising. More and more it seems like MS-3 students are pulled away from actual clinical responsibility by their schools for "lecture" or "self-reflection" and then are completely unprepared for internship.

Academia baby, hell I bet soon they will get rid of actually any patient contact in 3rd or 4th years, and it'll all be on a computer. Good enough, right? As long as we understand to be empathetic.

Everybody gets a trophy, but nobody actually wins.

 

[DermViser]

Academia baby, hell I bet soon they will get rid of actually any patient contact in 3rd or 4th years, and it'll all be on a computer. Good enough, right? As long as we understand to be empathetic.

Everybody gets a trophy, but nobody actually wins.

Yup, it will all be done at simulator centers.

 

[Brain Bucket]

Imagine after you write a reflective paper and someone tells you it's wrong. No amount of .jpeg can qualify that moment.

At least you can have some fun with it.

 

[boogaloo]

Wow, that's terrible, but not surprising. More and more it seems like MS-3 students are pulled away from actual clinical responsibility by their schools for "lecture" or "self-reflection" and then are completely unprepared for internship.

Academia baby, hell I bet soon they will get rid of actually any patient contact in 3rd or 4th years, and it'll all be on a computer. Good enough, right? As long as we understand to be empathetic.

Everybody gets a trophy, but nobody actually wins.

I read a comment above about how empathy was pre-determined before starting med school, and I agree completely. I work with the most narcissistic group in our class (me included). No amount of self-reflective writing could possibly change that, but I guess the admins want to add the touchy-feely stuff to the curriculum for their own comfort.

 

[DermViser]

I read a comment above about how empathy was pre-determined before starting med school, and I agree completely. I work with the most narcissistic group in our class (me included). No amount of self-reflective writing could possibly change that, but I guess the admins want to add the touchy-feely stuff to the curriculum for their own comfort.

It's more a checkmark for the medical school, than for students. The public complains about doctors not being "empathetic" or "compassionate", so a medical school wants to make it look like they've addressed the problem. Kind of like sensitivity training in the work place for offenses.

 

[PL198]

At least you can have some fun with it.
View attachment 180976

Yeah right, "professionalism" would be all over that, yet there's been 10 emails sent to our whole class from other students that are so "unprofessional" i wouldn't say them aloud. The whole professionalism is just the ace up the sleeve so that a medical school can give you crap if they don't like you.

 

[Brain Bucket]

Yeah right, "professionalism" would be all over that, yet there's been 10 emails sent to our whole class from other students that are so "unprofessional" i wouldn't say them aloud. The whole professionalism is just the ace up the sleeve so that a medical school can give you crap if they don't like you.

If you write well, they can't do ****, otherwise they'll look like the dbs.

 

[Cytarabine]

I read a comment above about how empathy was pre-determined before starting med school, and I agree completely. I work with the most narcissistic group in our class (me included). No amount of self-reflective writing could possibly change that, but I guess the admins want to add the touchy-feely stuff to the curriculum for their own comfort.

I don't think this is entirely the case. Cynicism and related qualities universally pretty much worsen over the course of training. It's logical they could be improved somewhat too, imo. At the very least, you can teach the student the facade they need. How effectively schools do any of that, idk. There's a pretty interesting body of literature on the topic though

 

[PL198]

I don't think this is entirely the case. Cynicism and related qualities universally pretty much worsen over the course of training. It's logical they could be improved somewhat too, imo. At the very least, you can teach the student the facade they need. How effectively schools do any of that, idk. There's a pretty interesting body of literature on the topic though

That's because they are relative traits. That's like saying the difference in outlook between a soldier and a colonel about war gets more bleak and that's a problem. I'd say it's more like the people evaluating the medical field have a false connotation of what it should be like, and thus when compared to the real world views of attendings, they call that a problem. The attendings feel that way for a reason. It's not like they are all evil people that magically fail and are cynical. The fact that anyone can outright say these things need to be improved is scary IMO. Short of drugging them to remain happy and cheery, or sticking a shock collar on their leg to measure their hormone levels, I'm not sure what can be done to "improve" things, unless its more brainwashing about how medicine should be.

 

[Cytarabine]

That's because they are relative traits. That's like saying the difference in outlook between a soldier and a colonel about war gets more bleak and that's a problem. I'd say it's more like the people evaluating the medical field have a false connotation of what it should be like, and thus when compared to the real world views of attendings, they call that a problem. The attendings feel that way for a reason. It's not like they are all evil people that magically fail and are cynical. The fact that anyone can outright say these things need to be improved is scary IMO. Short of drugging them to remain happy and cheery, or sticking a shock collar on their leg to measure their hormone levels, I'm not sure what can be done to "improve" things, unless its more brainwashing about how medicine should be.

http://mobile.journals.lww.com/acad...ewer.aspx?year=2011&issue=08000&article=00024

You would view physician empathy the same way?

 

[PL198]

http://mobile.journals.lww.com/acad...ewer.aspx?year=2011&issue=08000&article=00024

You would view physician empathy the same way?

I'd call that outward empathy. I don't really see how someone could measure how empathetic a physician was, unless they were inside that physicians head. Appearing to be empathetic =!= empathetic. Me saying "I'm sure that would be difficult" in an interview doesn't mean I actually think it would be difficult.

 

[Cytarabine]

I'd call that outward empathy. I don't really see how someone could measure how empathetic a physician was, unless they were inside that physicians head. Appearing to be empathetic =!= empathetic. Me saying "I'm sure that would be difficult" in an interview doesn't mean I actually think it would be difficult.

Can't measure mental illness with that criteria either. Is empathy a desirable physician trait or no? If it is, is it something that should be fostered in medical training?

 

[PL198]

Can't measure mental illness with that criteria either. Is empathy a desirable physician trait or no? If it is, is it something that should be fostered in medical training?

Your original post that I responded to was talking about cynicism, not empathy. However to answer your post, yes empathy is desirable, but I don't feel it's something you can foster/teach. If anything, I'd say that medical schools attempting to teach empathy, just makes physicians less likely to actually be empathetic. It pisses me off that I'm graded for if I ask enough feeling questions during interviews. You bet that leaves a negative connotation with being empathetic in my mind.

 

[Cytarabine]

Your original post that I responded to was talking about cynicism, not empathy. However to answer your post, yes empathy is desirable, but I don't feel it's something you can foster/teach. If anything, I'd say that medical schools attempting to teach empathy, just makes physicians less likely to actually be empathetic. It pisses me off that I'm graded for if I ask enough feeling questions during interviews. You bet that leaves a negative connotation with being empathetic in my mind.

My original post mentioned cynicism and related qualities. I think empathy is fairly included in that. For the rest of what I'm saying, it's important to distinguish between displays of empathy and empathy itself, obviously one being more malleable than the other. I would say empathetic displays are relatively easily teachable, as you're saying with grading based on doing so. The displays themselves, so long as theyre perceived as genuine by the patient, are going to be beneficial to the patient. The actual malleability of empathy is something that imo is more likely not something touched significantly by the didactics of empathetic techniques. However, i think it could be targeted somewhat through practice and reward (practiced empathy rewarded by positive patient encounters). Even more so and in a much more long term perspective, i think empathy could be targeted via modeling. People higher up in the medical hierarchy have a significant impact on those below them. Even if empathetic behavior is just being practiced by an upper level individual, it could be internalized by trainees

 

[DermViser]

Your original post that I responded to was talking about cynicism, not empathy. However to answer your post, yes empathy is desirable, but I don't feel it's something you can foster/teach. If anything, I'd say that medical schools attempting to teach empathy, just makes physicians less likely to actually be empathetic. It pisses me off that I'm graded for if I ask enough feeling questions during interviews. You bet that leaves a negative connotation with being empathetic in my mind.

It would help if medical schools spent less time crushing the empathy and humanism out of their medical students, and then teaching them how they need to learn to be more "professional".

 

[dyspareunia]

Just the other day I wrote a reflective paper about how my clinical skills have improved over the year. I'm an MS1 with no clinical skills.

 

[PL198]

It would help if medical schools spent less time crushing the empathy and humanism out of their students, and then teaching them how they need to be more "professional".

Soul-less hopeless M1 checking in. I shall not take a guess at what form of monster I will be after another year passes.

 

[DermViser]

Soul-less hopeless M1 checking in. I shall not take a guess at what form of monster I will be after another year passes.

Now you know why approximately 30% of med students are affected by depression or anxiety in which medication can help wonders in this regard. That being said, depending on the specialty chosen - it does get much better.

 

[PL198]

Now you know why approximately 30% of med students are affected by depression or anxiety in which medication can help wonders in this regard. That being said, depending on the specialty chosen - it does get much better.

Sounds like shutter island to me, which oddly enough I had to write a paper on.

 

[DocVapor]

Sounds like shutter island to me, which oddly enough I had to write a paper on.

Was it abut how depressingly predictable that plot "twist" was?

 

[PL198]

Was it abut how depressingly predictable that plot "twist" was?

Did you think that the first time you saw it without reading the book and and hearing anything from friends? I didn't think it was predictable at all, even though obviously it appears to be so the second time around.

 

[DocVapor]

Did you think that the first time you saw it without reading the book and and hearing anything from friends? I didn't think it was predictable at all, even though obviously it appears to be so the second time around.

Yeah, I had never heard of the book before and none of my friends had seen it yet. I think I called it within 10 or so minutes into the movie.

Anyway, these reflective papers sound awful. I am surprised that MD students are having to write them while I, a DO student, have not. Seems they would fit the philosophy here pretty well.

 

[PL198]

Yeah, I had never heard of the book before and none of my friends had seen it yet. I think I called it within 10 or so minutes into the movie.

Anyway, these reflective papers sound awful. I am surprised that MD students are having to write them while I, a DO student, have not. Seems they would fit the philosophy here pretty well.

Feel free to take them off our hands, I'll send you a few prompts so that you can become a more well-rounded student.

 

[theseeker4]

I am not aware of any "reflection" papers required during the clinical years here, though they might be, have to wait and see. There is nothing like that for years 1 or 2 though. The closest was a "reflection" on a research project we were required to participate in regarding "interdisciplinary" exposure, which we had to answer in a couple sentences a few questions about our expectations, our experiences with it, etc. Other than that, there have been no reflection papers or anything like it for the pre-clinical years here.

 

[DocVapor]

Feel free to take them off our hands, I'll send you a few prompts so that you can become a more well-rounded student.

Nah. Maybe we don't do them because we DO students are automatically more well-rounded, empathetic, and holistic just by being DO students. 😉

 

[PL198]

I am not aware of any "reflection" papers required during the clinical years here, though they might be, have to wait and see. There is nothing like that for years 1 or 2 though. The closest was a "reflection" on a research project we were required to participate in regarding "interdisciplinary" exposure, which we had to answer in a couple sentences a few questions about our expectations, our experiences with it, etc. Other than that, there have been no reflection papers or anything like it for the pre-clinical years here.

BRB transferring

 

[atomi]

"Unprofessional" is the word used when big brother doesn't like something you have done but doesn't have any clear basis, legal or otherwise rational, for punishing you for it because the offense is completely subjective and often they can't even really define what it was that bothered them. You just did something to give someone a funny feeling that challenged some strictly held conservative idea or made them feel insecure. You know when you were a kid and you did something your parents didn't like and they told you that you better stop it before they count to three "or else"? Hinting that your behavior in medical school is "unprofessional" is the exact same thing. Or else what? Who knows. The only thing that's certain is that questioning why something is considered unprofessional is unprofessional itself. Genius.

 

[Psai]

"Unprofessional" is the word used when big brother doesn't like something you have done but doesn't have any clear basis, legal or otherwise rational, for punishing you for it because the offense is completely subjective and often they can't even really define what it was that bothered them. You just did something to give someone a funny feeling that challenged some strictly held conservative idea or made them feel insecure. You know when you were a kid and you did something your parents didn't like and they told you that you better stop it before they count to three "or else"? Hinting that your behavior in medical school is "unprofessional" is the exact same thing. Or else what? Who knows. The only thing that's certain is that questioning why something is considered unprofessional is unprofessional itself. Genius.

Yeah my school sent us an email telling us that not submitting a course evaluation was unprofessional so I just didn't do it. The course was pretty much beyond saving anyway.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

none of that at my school (MD). Sorry to hear it's happening to others, sounds terrible.

 

[KnuxNole]

I'd write the most oversexualized reflective paper if I was forced to do one. Hey, they did ask me to reflect, I can't help where my mind goes to :O

 

[AlmostAnMD]

I'd write the most oversexualized reflective paper if I was forced to do one. Hey, they did ask me to reflect, I can't help where my mind goes to :O

We had to write an ethics paper about ethics as a medical student. The topic could be "anything", so I wrote it on this movie:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Mary

Which I found just randomly browsing netflix. In summary, I wrote that she made the correct decision to drop out of medical school and become a full-time illegal body modification surgeon to the underworld.

I got an 80%.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

A few of our core rotations require them. I don't mind them I guess, but what perplexes me is that they're actually GRADED, and often you won't get full credit.

That defeats the purpose of a reflection essay. It transforms into more of a "get on your knees and blow the faculty" assignment to show how much you should be appreciating their so-much-wow! humanism curriculum. Does anyone honestly speak their mind when trying to earn the best grade?

We had BS reflective essays at my school, too, but fortunately they are just P/F, contingent only on whether you did the assignment or not.

 

[hmockingbird]

We do every so often, like if a patient comes in to talk to us, but it's for completion points.