How many people go to the Parties during orientation and after test?

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Arkangeloid said:
Well, I figured you were my enemy because you never said anything in my favor while "liking" everything critical of me. Perhaps I was mistaken.



Right, but isn't the game basically over for me at this point? 2 failed (and remediated) classes mean that no residency program bar the ones at the bottom will ever deign to consider me.

I just feel so horrible. So many people put their faith in me: my friends, family, tutors, undergrad professors, etc, and all I've brought them is shame and dishonor.

I'm thinking about leaving medicine permanently FWIW. The only problem would be that a lib arts degree means scant employment opportunities, plus I would have to explain this to prospective employers lol. Oh, and the shame and dishonor intrinsic to my failures I suppose.
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Don't give up yet bro. Wait to get your score back and then think about things. You should be 100% about your decision before dropping out of medicine.
 
Arkangeloid said:
I think I knew it but I couldn't apply it, the questions were just so abstract and weird, they threw me off completely.

Might drop out of med school and go get an engineering degree or something. Will prob be easier.
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This is kind of a stupid question because you're still preclinical, but do you think you would enjoy doing doctor things rather than just the idea of being a doctor?
 
circulus vitios said:
This is kind of a stupid question because you're still preclinical, but do you think you would enjoy doing doctor things rather than just the idea of being a doctor?
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I don't believe that's a stupid question at all. Preclinical education and Clinicals are just so different, IMHO. No matter how much med schools try to bridge the two (integrated preclinicals, etc.) it doesn't really work. Preclinical education is nothing like "being a doctor".
 
Took first big exams today, wasn't too bad. Anatomy is 1/3 of the way over with, I think one girl quit, she finished a 100 question exam in 30 minutes, well she either failed or she got honors. She probably failed though:meh:.
 
EMDO2018 said:
Took first big exams today, wasn't too bad. Anatomy is 1/3 of the way over with, I think one girl quit, she finished a 100 question exam in 30 minutes, well she either failed or she got honors. She probably failed though:meh:.
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There's a guy in my class who would finish most exams in 30 minutes when most people would take 1.5-2 hours. Pretty sure he's one of the top students in the class. If you read quickly and know the material cold, you can easily burn through 3 questions/minute. If it was a vignette-style exam, then that's less likely.
 
Ismet said:
There's a guy in my class who would finish most exams in 30 minutes when most people would take 1.5-2 hours. Pretty sure he's one of the top students in the class. If you read quickly and know the material cold, you can easily burn through 3 questions/minute. If it was a vignette-style exam, then that's less likely.
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I don't think that's the case here, the look on her face during the exam was one of grief and disbelief.
 
this thread just turned into the m1 hangout, I think I might say farewell for now.
 
EMDO2018 said:
I don't think that's the case here, the look on her face during the exam was one of grief and disbelief.
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she was disappointed about the difficulty of the exam
 
circulus vitios said:
This is kind of a stupid question because you're still preclinical, but do you think you would enjoy doing doctor things rather than just the idea of being a doctor?
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Yeah, I think I would enjoy doing those doctor things, from what I've seen of medicine. Plus I guess it's better than running a 7/11 or doing programming (my other potential career choices).

I just question if it's worth it, and I don't think it is anymore. It's barely over a year in, and my body's fitness level has gone to pot, I've become addicted to caffeine, and my old sense of optimism and happiness has slowly eroded away to nothing.

Let' not even get into the financial aspects of the situation: I'm a med student who has failed multiple classes, and I'm not stupid, I know nothing will erase the mark that has on my C.V. My residency prospects are minimal beyond FP or Peds. And while those are fine careers, I don't think they are fine enough to justify an upfront fee of $300K, a decade of lost income and investments, and the horrific effects that medical school has had on me as a person.

Ismet said:
Did you do any practice questions? If your school writes vignette-style questions, it's probably in your best interest to pick up a subscription to USMLERx or something so you can get used to thinking like that. Unless the exam writer is really really bad at writing exams for your level of education, there should always be enough material in the vignette that points you directly to the correct answer if you know what to look for and how to synthesize it. That's what the bulk of Step 1 is, and just like the MCAT, you have to learn how to approach the questions and do a lot of practice. It's not something you can just study and know the info cold, because it's not just memorization. What's helpful in Pulm is the labs, especially PFTs, and if you're not used to synthesizing the lab info with the clinical picture, figuring out the disease will be difficult.

Just calm down and relax until you get your score back and can look at the exam. Please talk to someone if you are feeling hopeless. And perhaps look into a Qbank (but not Uworld yet)
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Yea I used the Robbins Questions and Firecracker along with school-provided practice questions, I tried USMLE-Rx, but those didn't really match what was being tested so I decided to save them. I mean, when I failed some classes in MS1, I knew in the back of my head that I wasn't working hard enough, so I doubled my efforts and didn't fail anything else (and successfully remediated what I did fail). But now, I did everything I could, and I'm at wit's end as to what else I can do.
 
Arkangeloid said:
I just question if it's worth it, and I don't think it is anymore. It's barely over a year in, and my body's fitness level has gone to pot, I've become addicted to caffeine, and my old sense of optimism and happiness has slowly eroded away to nothing.

Let' not even get into the financial aspects of the situation: I'm a med student who has failed multiple classes, and I'm not stupid, I know nothing will erase the mark that has on my C.V. My residency prospects are minimal beyond FP or Peds. And while those are fine careers, I don't think they are fine enough to justify an upfront fee of $300K, a decade of lost income and investments, and the horrific effects that medical school has had on me as a person.
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I think you might have your answer right there. Nobody who's gone through the process would fault you for dropping out. I have escape fantasies all the time.

However, WAIT UNTIL YOU GET THE TEST BACK TO DO ANYTHING.
 
Serous Demilune said:
I think you might have your answer right there. Nobody who's gone through the process would fault you for dropping out. I have escape fantasies all the time.

However, WAIT UNTIL YOU GET THE TEST BACK TO DO ANYTHING.
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THIS. That being said - why hate Peds? You can subspecialize.
 
I feel like failing 2 preclinical classes isn't even that big of a deal TBH. Obviously it's not helping you out, but if you fix whatever your error's are, do well on step 1 and clinicals, I think that would be much more important. I haven't been in the application situation, but I don't really feel that failing a preclinical class or two is going to sink your ship entirely if you right the ship from there on. I agree you probably won't get into derm unless you got like a 260 on step 1 and honored a ton of rotations, but I doubt your only opportunities would be peds/fm. You have to remember that there are a lot of people that match with scores like 200-215 every year into things other than peds/fm, so if you got a higher score than that and had good clinical evals, I'm pretty sure you could make up the difference and be competitive.

Not saying you're in a good spot, but I don't think all is lost like you make it out to be.
 
PL198 said:
I feel like failing 2 preclinical classes isn't even that big of a deal TBH. Obviously it's not helping you out, but if you fix whatever your error's are, do well on step 1 and clinicals, I think that would be much more important. I haven't been in the application situation, but I don't really feel that failing a preclinical class or two is going to sink your ship entirely if you right the ship from there on. I agree you probably won't get into derm unless you got like a 260 on step 1 and honored a ton of rotations, but I doubt your only opportunities would be peds/fm. You have to remember that there are a lot of people that match with scores like 200-215 every year into things other than peds/fm, so if you got a higher score than that and had good clinical evals, I'm pretty sure you could make up the difference and be competitive.

Not saying you're in a good spot, but I don't think all is lost like you make it out to be.
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Not that there's anything in your post that's wrong, but I feel like the likelihood of Ark going from failing to crushing Step is borderline impossible. His focus is so scattered and he's constantly working against himself.

Ark, my impression is that you don't really want to be in medicine anyway. You want the women/wealth at the end but hate the science and will hate clinicals. Do you agree? Do you think you'd be happy long term in medicine?
 
Psai said:
I read every single post already
this is a thread about actual parties, it's not the ark pity party
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That discussion ended a while back. It's more the EMDO2018 pity party thread.
 
Wordead said:
Not that there's anything in your post that's wrong, but I feel like the likelihood of Ark going from failing to crushing Step is borderline impossible. His focus is so scattered and he's constantly working against himself.

Ark, my impression is that you don't really want to be in medicine anyway. You want the women/wealth at the end but hate the science and will hate clinicals. Do you agree? Do you think you'd be happy long term in medicine?
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The thing is that I actually think medicine is sort of cool. Back in first year, I used to tell everyone who would listen cool clinical tidbits that I'd learned in class.

The only thing I question is: is it cool enough to justify the amount of suffering (financial and personal) required for a career in it? That's something I'm on the fence about.
 
Arkangeloid said:
The thing is that I actually think medicine is sort of cool. Back in first year, I used to tell everyone who would listen cool clinical tidbits that I'd learned in class.

The only thing I question is: is it cool enough to justify the amount of suffering (financial and personal) required for a career in it? That's something I'm on the fence about.
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But did you like the idea of knowing factoids or the actual doing of medicine: physical exam, obtaining a history, etc.?
 
Wordead said:
Not that there's anything in your post that's wrong, but I feel like the likelihood of Ark going from failing to crushing Step is borderline impossible. His focus is so scattered and he's constantly working against himself.

Ark, my impression is that you don't really want to be in medicine anyway. You want the women/wealth at the end but hate the science and will hate clinicals. Do you agree? Do you think you'd be happy long term in medicine?
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I agree but I doubt that something like 230 would be impossible , and if he had a 230 and did fine in clinicals , I still feel like he could match in other stuff. I don't have any experience in the match though
 
DermViser said:
But did you like the idea of knowing factoids or the actual doing of medicine: physical exam, obtaining a history, etc.?
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Physical is cool, History is kinda stupid because patients are *****, but what can you do I guess.
 
Arkangeloid said:
Physical is cool, History is kinda stupid because patients are *****, but what can you do I guess.
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Medicine is more than just objective physical exam, ordering and evaluating tests and imaging, etc. History (which I realize is subjective and reliant on people's memories) dictates whether certain labs or imaging is ordered - and often times won't be reimbursed if the history doesn't fit it. It's not a check off list - based on physical exam findings alone.
 
DermViser said:
Medicine is more than just objective physical exam, ordering and evaluating tests and imaging, etc. History (which I realize is subjective and reliant on people's memories) dictates whether certain labs or imaging is ordered - and often times won't be reimbursed if the history doesn't fit it. It's not a check off list - based on physical exam findings alone.
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That's true, but right now the concern is trying to get through this crap.
 
Arkangeloid said:
I mean, I don't "hate" it, I just think it's annoying.
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Yes, but as a resident you'll be doing it all the time. Of course right now it's just annoying. Bc you're only doing it once in while. As a resident and attending, that's all you'll be doing in many specialties. The only places you can avoid history-taking is in Pathology and Radiology (but even in Rads, you'll be asking the consultant about certain parts of the history).
 
Anybody notice how stuck up most people in med school are? The extreme competiveness of admissions ensures anybody entering thinks really highly of themselves. In my opinion they shouldn't be stuck up, most of the people here are born atop mount privilege with physican parents or physicians in their family. Them being here is more of a result of their parents providing a great life for them. Its not like they had any real struggles.
 
EMDO2018 said:
Anybody notice how stuck up most people in med school are? The extreme competiveness of admissions ensures anybody entering thinks really highly of themselves. In my opinion they shouldn't be stuck up, most of the people here are born atop mount privilege with physican parents or physicians in their family. Them being here is more of a result of their parents providing a great life for them. Its not like they had any real struggles.
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Not really. I mean yeah most people come from pretty decent situations but that doesn't make it easy. Your parents making xyz per year isn't the reason you got a 36 on the MCAT or whatever. To perform at a high level, you have to think of yourself in a very positive way. I don't know many successful people that don't think highly of themselves. Now there's a difference between thinking that inwardly vs outwardly, however it's still going on. If you can get through medical school, you're working harder than 90+ % of college students at a minimum and in reality it's probably higher than that. You should think highly of yourself if you can do that.

I agree a lot of people are stuck up, but that's completely different than thinking highly of yourself. I think I'm pretty hard working and think highly of myself, yet I wear shorts and a t shirt every day when I don't have to dress up.
 
Arkangeloid said:
Physical is cool, History is kinda stupid because patients are *****, but what can you do I guess.
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Arkangeloid said:
I mean, I don't "hate" it, I just think it's annoying.
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If that's how you really feel about patients and about taking histories, you are going to be miserable in 3rd and 4th year and residency. Much of clinical diagnosis is based on an accurate history. I'd argue that it's more important than a physical depending on what the patient has. And you will be doing a LOT of it over the next several years until you have med students and residents of your own to do the history taking for you.

I'm not sure what prompted you go to into medicine if you think patients are stupid.

EMDO2018 said:
Anybody notice how stuck up most people in med school are? The extreme competiveness of admissions ensures anybody entering thinks really highly of themselves. In my opinion they shouldn't be stuck up, most of the people here are born atop mount privilege with physican parents or physicians in their family. Them being here is more of a result of their parents providing a great life for them. Its not like they had any real struggles.
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Why don't you get to know your classmates before passing judgment on them and their upbringing? They're not stuck up just because they don't approach you and talk to you. And yes, people who make it into medical school should think highly of themselves and be confident in their abilities, but confidence does not equal being stuck up. You got into med school too. You should think highly of yourself too.
 
PL198 said:
I agree but I doubt that something like 230 would be impossible , and if he had a 230 and did fine in clinicals , I still feel like he could match in other stuff. I don't have any experience in the match though
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A 230 would still be a stretch if he doesn't figure out what's going wrong with the way he studies and/or takes tests. I know on SDN a 230 is practically failing, but in the real world it's quite a decent score (and above average). You don't go from failing/barely passing pre-clinical to 230 on boards unless you completely overhaul your approach, which is what Ark needs to do.
 
Ismet said:
A 230 would still be a stretch if he doesn't figure out what's going wrong with the way he studies and/or takes tests. I know on SDN a 230 is practically failing, but in the real world it's quite a decent score (and above average). You don't go from failing/barely passing pre-clinical to 230 on boards unless you completely overhaul your approach, which is what Ark needs to do.
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True, and we can insert any number we want. My point is just that Ark can get a score better than a decent amount of people that match along with having decent clinical interactions to hopefully make up for a failure or two and still have a decent shot at more stuff than FM/peds.
 
Arkangeloid said:
Yeah, I think I would enjoy doing those doctor things, from what I've seen of medicine. Plus I guess it's better than running a 7/11 or doing programming (my other potential career choices).

I just question if it's worth it, and I don't think it is anymore. It's barely over a year in, and my body's fitness level has gone to pot, I've become addicted to caffeine, and my old sense of optimism and happiness has slowly eroded away to nothing.

Let' not even get into the financial aspects of the situation: I'm a med student who has failed multiple classes, and I'm not stupid, I know nothing will erase the mark that has on my C.V. My residency prospects are minimal beyond FP or Peds. And while those are fine careers, I don't think they are fine enough to justify an upfront fee of $300K, a decade of lost income and investments, and the horrific effects that medical school has had on me as a person.



Yea I used the Robbins Questions and Firecracker along with school-provided practice questions, I tried USMLE-Rx, but those didn't really match what was being tested so I decided to save them. I mean, when I failed some classes in MS1, I knew in the back of my head that I wasn't working hard enough, so I doubled my efforts and didn't fail anything else (and successfully remediated what I did fail). But now, I did everything I could, and I'm at wit's end as to what else I can do.
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Like @PL198 said earlier, failing a couple preclinical classes, isn't good, but it's not the end of the world. You need to stay optimistic, do well on all subsequent exams, go "ham" (for your sake) on Step 1, and rock the clinical years, all of which I'm sure with some motivation and good studying you can accomplish. Yes, you may not make AOA, who cares? Maybe do some research. It's not over buddy, you don't even have to settle for just peds or fm.
 
EMDO2018 said:
Anybody notice how stuck up most people in med school are? The extreme competiveness of admissions ensures anybody entering thinks really highly of themselves. In my opinion they shouldn't be stuck up, most of the people here are born atop mount privilege with physican parents or physicians in their family. Them being here is more of a result of their parents providing a great life for them. Its not like they had any real struggles.
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You're right. And the perfect solution is talking about how rich your classmates are, how much easier they have it bc they are rich, how much easier they have it bc their parents are physicians, etc. Maybe if you took the chip off your shoulder and actually tried to make friends with people, you wouldn't be as judgemental and think of how easy they have it.
 
DermViser said:
You're right. And the perfect solution is talking about how rich your classmates are, how much easier they have it bc they are rich, how much easier they have it bc their parents are physicians, etc. Maybe if you took the chip off your shoulder and actually tried to make friends with people, you wouldn't be as judgemental and think of how easy they have it.
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You know who the most successful people are? They are the ones who've never felt entitled once in their life, who've worked hard for every damn penny they've earned, never blamed anyone for their problems, amd never once though they were better than anyone else. That starts with not being judgmental and just trying to be nice and friendly. You don't have to kiss ass, but you have to friendly.
 
Ismet said:
If that's how you really feel about patients and about taking histories, you are going to be miserable in 3rd and 4th year and residency. Much of clinical diagnosis is based on an accurate history. I'd argue that it's more important than a physical depending on what the patient has. And you will be doing a LOT of it over the next several years until you have med students and residents of your own to do the history taking for you.

I'm not sure what prompted you go to into medicine if you think patients are stupid.
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I think this is a common misperception of premeds and preclinical medical students. They think that objective metrics - physical exam, imaging, lab tests dictate everything. And everything is black-and-white. Real medicine has sensitivity/specificity. Real medicine is not your basic science lectures.

History has a lot to do with medicine. If you don't like taking a history, you will have HUGE problems in MS-3. Even if you decide to do Radiology (you still have to do an internship year, which you have to be a functional intern in order to get thru). One can like medical information, and hate working with patients. But if that's the case, then you shouldn't be in medicine unless you want to do Pathology as a specialty.
 
DermViser said:
I think this is a common misperception of premeds and preclinical medical students. They think that objective metrics - physical exam, imaging, lab tests dictate everything. And everything is black-and-white. Real medicine has sensitivity/specificity. Real medicine is not your basic science lectures.

History has a lot to do with medicine. If you don't like taking a history, you will have HUGE problems in MS-3. Even if you decide to do Radiology (you still have to do an internship year, which you have to be a functional intern in order to get thru). One can like medical information, and hate working with patients. But if that's the case, then you shouldn't be in medicine unless you want to do Pathology as a specialty.
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brb praying for direct IR pipeline to open up by the time I graduate.
 
PL198 said:
brb praying for direct IR pipeline to open up by the time I graduate.
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You never know, it might happen. I think in a few years it's just going to be like rad onc, totally seperate specialty.
 
PL198 said:
lol I know I'm fine with that, I'd just rather avoid intern year
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Likely the intern year would be incorporated in it. Kind of like Psychiatry where it's 4 years to be BC in Psych but the first year isn't all Psych months.
 
DermViser said:
Likely the intern year would be incorporated in it. Kind of like Psychiatry where it's 4 years to be BC in Psych but the first year isn't all Psych months.
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drat
 
Ismet said:
If that's how you really feel about patients and about taking histories, you are going to be miserable in 3rd and 4th year and residency. Much of clinical diagnosis is based on an accurate history. I'd argue that it's more important than a physical depending on what the patient has. And you will be doing a LOT of it over the next several years until you have med students and residents of your own to do the history taking for you.

I'm not sure what prompted you go to into medicine if you think patients are stupid.
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I mean, patients are okay, perhaps I should rephrase that into saying that standardized patients are ******ed. At our school, the standardized patient exercises are conducted quite poorly, and are actually not standardized. Some people get cool and interesting cases, but other people get cases where the patient just says "no" over and over, even if you try to ask everything they told us to ask. Other students have complained about this lack of standardization too.

What makes it even worse is that sometimes the school makes up bizarre crap just to prove a point. For example, I once had to interview a lady who presented with headaches and ish, but whose actual problem was that her boyfriend was abusing her. She did not hint anything about that abuse even when I probed deeper into her relationship and tried to inquire about other possible (non-neurological) causes of her pain.

And I know this forum tell me that I'm an awkward sperglord ****** and I missed some subtle cues that apparently gave away a diagnosis of abuse, but I can't help but think that I got a raw deal compared to people with different patients. Plus, how should I have brought up "is your boyfriend beating you" when she gave a nonchalant response to "how is your relationship"?
 
Arkangeloid said:
I mean, patients are okay, perhaps I should rephrase that into saying that standardized patients are ******ed. At our school, the standardized patient exercises are conducted quite poorly, and are actually not standardized. Some people get cool and interesting cases, but other people get cases where the patient just says "no" over and over, even if you try to ask everything they told us to ask Other students have complained about this lack of standardization too.

What makes it even worse is that sometimes the school makes up bizarre crap just to prove a point. For example, I once had to interview a lady who presented with headaches and ish, but whose actual problem was that her boyfriend was abusing her. She did not hint anything about that abuse even when I probed deeper into her relationship and tried to inquire about other possible issues of her pain.

And I know this forum tell me that I'm an awkward sperglord ****** and I missed some subtle cues that apparently gave away a diagnosis of abuse, but I can't help but think that I got a raw deal compared to people with different patients. Plus, how should I have brought up "is your boyfriend beating you" when she gave a nonchalant response to "how is your relationship"?
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I'm pretty surprised they had that as a standardized patient as a 1st or 2nd year. I feel like schools generally try to avoid issues like that for the earlier parts of your career. We had ones about relationships affecting illness, but not involving violence.
 
Arkangeloid said:
I mean, patients are okay, perhaps I should rephrase that into saying that standardized patients are ******ed. At our school, the standardized patient exercises are conducted quite poorly, and are actually not standardized. Some people get cool and interesting cases, but other people get cases where the patient just says "no" over and over, even if you try to ask everything they told us to ask Other students have complained about this lack of standardization too.

What makes it even worse is that sometimes the school makes up bizarre crap just to prove a point. For example, I once had to interview a lady who presented with headaches and ish, but whose actual problem was that her boyfriend was abusing her. She did not hint anything about that abuse even when I probed deeper into her relationship and tried to inquire about other possible issues of her pain.

And I know this forum tell me that I'm an awkward sperglord ****** and I missed some subtle cues that apparently gave away a diagnosis of abuse, but I can't help but think that I got a raw deal compared to people with different patients. Plus, how should I have brought up "is your boyfriend beating you" when she gave a nonchalant response to "how is your relationship"?
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Domestic violence victims don't just come out and say they're being abused in real life. Many times they present with "pain". The same way some parents who abuse their kids bring their child to the ER and there are certain tell-tale signs when their story doesn't add up.

I believe there is a question that you ask like, "Do you feel safe and protected in your home" or you could just come out and ask.
 
PL198 said:
I'm pretty surprised they had that as a standardized patient as a 1st or 2nd year. I feel like schools generally try to avoid issues like that for the earlier parts of your career. We had ones about relationships affecting illness, but not involving violence.
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When else are you supposed to do standardized patients? It's the only time before you hit the wards in MS-3.
 
Arkangeloid said:
I mean, patients are okay, perhaps I should rephrase that into saying that standardized patients are ******ed. At our school, the standardized patient exercises are conducted quite poorly, and are actually not standardized. Some people get cool and interesting cases, but other people get cases where the patient just says "no" over and over, even if you try to ask everything they told us to ask Other students have complained about this lack of standardization too.

What makes it even worse is that sometimes the school makes up bizarre crap just to prove a point. For example, I once had to interview a lady who presented with headaches and ish, but whose actual problem was that her boyfriend was abusing her. She did not hint anything about that abuse even when I probed deeper into her relationship and tried to inquire about other possible issues of her pain.

And I know this forum tell me that I'm an awkward sperglord ****** and I missed some subtle cues that apparently gave away a diagnosis of abuse, but I can't help but think that I got a raw deal compared to people with different patients. Plus, how should I have brought up "is your boyfriend beating you" when she gave a nonchalant response to "how is your relationship"?
Click to expand...

Because there are proper follow-up questions to ask a woman about her relationships. It is absolutely okay to ask, "does your partner ever hurt you?" or "does your partner ever try to control you?" or "does your partner make you feel unsafe?" All while emphasizing to the patient that everything is confidential and the patient is in a safe and private place at the doctor's office/hospital room. Those are things I really didn't learn completely until 3rd year, but there are ways to screen for domestic violence and yes, they involve asking the patient directly because they're usually not going to offer that information on a platter. Victims of long-term domestic abuse might not even be aware that what is happening to them is wrong or abnormal. Or they're so afraid of the consequences of telling someone that they avoid saying anything.

And in general, if you are awkward and can't establish some form of rapport with a patient, of course they're not going to tell you all of their personal details. That goes for both SP's and real patients. Your patient needs to feel comfortable with you, which is why "bedside manner" is so important. Just because you have the title of "medical student" or "doctor" does not entitle you to get all the answers.

And please stop using the word "******." It is not a surrogate word for stupidity, and I would hope that a future physician would know to refrain from using it that way.
 
Ismet said:
And please stop using the word "******." It is not a surrogate word for stupidity, and I would hope that a future physician would know to refrain from using it that way.
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You don't use that word? It must be a guy thing.
 
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