How many prelims/TY did you interview at?

[echod]

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Now that interviews are almost over. Can we all post how many TY/prelims we went on? I went on 9 total. How many do you think is safe for matching a PGY1 spot?

 

[SJSM001]

5. No idea how many we should have gone on.

 

[math]

5. No idea how many we should have gone on.

I don't see why it would be so bad not to match at a PGY1. I am actually leaning towards entering the SOAP for a PGY1, for 2 reasons 1) You have better options geographically (okay, so you might not get that really cush year in suburban Timbuktu, but in general these things are the same, and I would rather work a little harder in a really great city), and 2) I kind of want to see what SOAPing is all about.

For the record, I went on 7, but I don't really like the locations (even though they are pretty cush), and I am seriously thinking about SOAPing to a surg prelim somewhere beautiful (LA, Miami, Hawaii, etc). You only live once.

 

[ramsesthenice]

This has been addressed before a lot. If you want Cush then do as many as you can. They are usually very competitive.

I know a couple people that used the SOAP and it was fine for them for getting a pre-lim spot.

A lot of people have near guaranteed spots at their home program (usually pre-lim spots) and do very few interviews.

This is nothing to worry about and there is no 1 size fits all. I have never even heard of someone losing their rad onc spot because they couldn't find a pgy1 spot. Worst thing that happens is you get scut for a year. You'd live.

 

[Sheldor]

This has been addressed before a lot. If you want Cush then do as many as you can. They are usually very competitive.

I know a couple people that used the SOAP and it was fine for them for getting a pre-lim spot.

A lot of people have near guaranteed spots at their home program (usually pre-lim spots) and do very few interviews.

This is nothing to worry about and there is no 1 size fits all. I have never even heard of someone losing their rad onc spot because they couldn't find a pgy1 spot. Worst thing that happens is you get scut for a year. You'd live.

I think this used to be true. I know two people who had to cancel their advanced position because they could not get a PGY-1 spot in SOAP. SOAP is crazy, and no one should every count on it. It is a terrible, difficult last resort.

So Math, please don't intentionally enter the SOAP. The people I know who did match threw it are miserable, and like I said I know multiple people who failed to get anything (All US grads.)

That said, I went on 9 0r 10 and that felt about right. I think it depends on whether you are interviewing in big cities or small cities and cush vs malignant.

Either way, rank all of them and hope for the best!

 

[ohioapplicant]

Sheldor is kind of a God around here. Listen to him.

 

[echod]

What advanced specialty did those friends match into and had to give up their advanced spot because of no prelims? How many prelim programs did they rank?

 

[math]

I think this used to be true. I know two people who had to cancel their advanced position because they could not get a PGY-1 spot in SOAP. SOAP is crazy, and no one should every count on it. It is a terrible, difficult last resort.

So Math, please don't intentionally enter the SOAP. The people I know who did match threw it are miserable, and like I said I know multiple people who failed to get anything (All US grads.)

That said, I went on 9 0r 10 and that felt about right. I think it depends on whether you are interviewing in big cities or small cities and cush vs malignant.

Either way, rank all of them and hope for the best!

Got it. Will do. Thx

 

[ramsesthenice]

Sheldor, are you serious? I believe you but it almost insults logic. I wouldn't want to do it either but even last year there were a lot of pre-lim sry spots that went unmatched after the SOAP. And I know several top Sry programs hold a pre-lim spot or two for the SOAP because they would rather have top applicants like us than second tier wanna be surgeons. Were these guys dead set on a geographical location or a sweet gig? This just defies logic. It might even be in the book of revelations as a sign of the end times. Wow. Glad all that is in the rear view.

 

[Sheldor]

Sheldor, are you serious? I believe you but it almost insults logic. I wouldn't want to do it either but even last year there were a lot of pre-lim sry spots that went unmatched after the SOAP. And I know several top Sry programs hold a pre-lim spot or two for the SOAP because they would rather have top applicants like us than second tier wanna be surgeons. Were these guys dead set on a geographical location or a sweet gig? This just defies logic. It might even be in the book of revelations as a sign of the end times. Wow. Glad all that is in the rear view.

The people I knew applied to some of those prelim surgery programs with spots open and heard nothing back, and then as each round progressed their spots stayed open. Our dean hypothesized that they had the spots open for very specific people but apparently the people applying weren't them!

Also EchoD, I'm sorry I don't know how many prelim spots they applied to personally. They were medical school classmates and so I only knew them on the surface level. The two who had to give up their spots, I know one of them was Radiology, I think the other one was Anesthesia?

The SOAP is those folks trying to make the best of a bad situation. Unfortunately, it is just a very rough process.

As an aside, I also know people who didn't match into FM and then happened to pull out more competitive specialties like Radiology in SOAP. So I don't mean to make it seem like its all bad, but I'd consider those folks lucky.

 

[Neuronix]

I agree with Sheldor. Sorry for delayed response--I was at a conference in SF. I got to meet Gfunk6 and he is awesome!

I don't see why it would be so bad not to match at a PGY1. I am actually leaning towards entering the SOAP for a PGY1, for 2 reasons 1) You have better options geographically (okay, so you might not get that really cush year in suburban Timbuktu, but in general these things are the same, and I would rather work a little harder in a really great city), and 2) I kind of want to see what SOAPing is all about.

For the record, I went on 7, but I don't really like the locations (even though they are pretty cush), and I am seriously thinking about SOAPing to a surg prelim somewhere beautiful (LA, Miami, Hawaii, etc). You only live once.

I think your post is naive. Relying on SOAP is risky. The people I've seen match in the SOAP in recent years have gotten brutal positions in not desirable, often rural areas. The odds of you getting your SOAP in LA, Miami, or Hawaii are very limited. You should be applying to these positions directly if you actually want them. All these stories you hear about people scrambling into cool internships are old news. Maybe 5 years ago that was true. We're graduating a lot more medical students and not expanding residencies. The competition even for internships is increasing. You can't just throw caution to the wind and expect to get what you want.

That said, "in general these things are the same" is completely untrue. I had an awesome first year with relaxed schedule, but with frequent didactics and very flexible electives for frequent learning and research productivity, internal moonlighting (so I still worked a bit harder and made more $$$ doing it), free food, free housing, etc. There are a number of programs like this. There are also many more brutal IM and surgery (where you never see the inside of an OR...) years with 10+ months of inpatient medicine that will frequently violate work hour rules and fire you if you even think of complaining. Maybe you have the energy to enjoy life in a city after 80+ hours a week, but I don't. The "cush" IM programs tend not to be in the SOAP at all. I rotated at malignant medicine and surgery programs when I was a medical student. The didactics at those programs were lousy because faculty are uninterested in prelims/interns and the interns are too busy to participate in the didactics regardless. Meanwhile, you're working on hardcore inpatient management of conditions which you will never manage again in your life, and will forget in a couple years after finishing internship.

TL;DR: Seeing what the SOAP is all about is like seeing what being kicked in the nuts is all about. You don't need to experience it to know it's unpleasant.

 

[Sheldor]

TL;DR: Seeing what the SOAP is all about is like seeing what being kicked in the nuts is all about. You don't need to experience it to know it's unpleasant.

Best TL;DR I've seen in a while. You sir, got an out loud laugh.

 

[medgator]

I think your post is naive. Relying on SOAP is risky. The people I've seen match in the SOAP in recent years have gotten brutal positions in not desirable, often rural areas. The odds of you getting your SOAP in LA, Miami, or Hawaii are very limited. You should be applying to these positions directly if you actually want them. All these stories you hear about people scrambling into cool internships are old news. Maybe 5 years ago that was true. We're graduating a lot more medical students and not expanding residencies. The competition even for internships is increasing. You can't just throw caution to the wind and expect to get what you want.

Completely agree. Not sure what "SOAP" even stands for but it did not exist 5-10 years ago and there was simply the "scramble" There weren't as many med schools open pumping out students. Basically there were guaranteed to be prelim med and surg spots every year.

Nowadays, not the case. I know someone who almost had to give up an advanced neurology position because they couldn't find a prelim med spot to fulfil the reqs after going through the "SOAP"

Edit: found something on the "SOAP"

http://www.studentdoctor.net/2010/10/using-soap-to-clean-up-the-scramble/

The competition to obtain a residency slot has amplified. According to the NRMP, last year was the largest Match in history: 30,543 applicants participated, vying for one of 22,809 first-year and 2,711 second-year residency positions. The competition is more intense for unmatched applicants: In the past nine years, the number of unfilled PGY-1 residency positions has declined from 2288 in 2001 to 1060 in 2010. Yet, in 2010, nearly 13,000 applicants participated in the Scramble. These numbers and the subsequent competition involved in matching applicants to unfilled positions mandated a streamlined system, which the current Scramble is not.