I'm a 4th year and want to go into anesthesiology. I've done a month at a private hospital under an anesthesiologist who used to work at my school's university hospital. It was a great month. I was the only student and got to do tons of stuff. I have another month lined up at the university where I would ultimately like to end up (of course pending things go well). After that I am not planning to do anymore months of anesthesia. My reason is I am confident it's what I want to do and I would like to use my time as a medical student to broaden my knowledge base in other specialties that will support a career in anesthesiology. Examples are Pulmonology, Cardiology, and ICU. What is your opinion on doing two months of anesthesia vs. using all my electives to do anesthesia? Some students from my school that graduated said they did 5-6 months of anesthesiology!!! Do program directors expect to see that on my transcript? I feel I have good reasons for my choices. I posted in the resident forum because you all have been through the process already and I need your feedback. Thanks.
How many rotations to do?
- Thread starter soon2b
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2008
- Messages
- 34,250
- Reaction score
- 917
I'd do 1-2 anesthesia rotations as a 4th year only (i did 2, wish I'd only done 1). I did do 1 cardio, 1 neuro, 1 palliative, 2 SICU's, in addition to required medicine sub-i, EM, ambulatory.
Spend the rest doing other rotations. ICU, cards, neuro, pulm... hell, whatever other fun stuff you can think of that you'd never get to do (i know some like forensic path, if you do, go for it... just an example).
putting a tube in isn't a priority, getting to experience the various other fields and learning from them is.
Spend the rest doing other rotations. ICU, cards, neuro, pulm... hell, whatever other fun stuff you can think of that you'd never get to do (i know some like forensic path, if you do, go for it... just an example).
putting a tube in isn't a priority, getting to experience the various other fields and learning from them is.
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2004
- Messages
- 2,230
- Reaction score
- 45
yeah 5-6 months is over kill, i did 2 also.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2005
- Messages
- 489
- Reaction score
- 2
i don't see a point in doing more than 2 rotations unless there is a specific hospital in a highly competitive locale ( ie, california ) that you're focused on matching at, or you've got a really rough step 1 score to make up for.
Applying broadly and having good letters +/- an away rotation or two is more than enough for most people.
Applying broadly and having good letters +/- an away rotation or two is more than enough for most people.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2004
- Messages
- 1,111
- Reaction score
- 1
In my opinion, you only need to do 1-2 months of anesthesia, unless you still need good letters, then do another month. If your letters are all lined up, take something interesting.
That said, here is my view on some of the common electives-
ER - take 1-2 months of this if you're at a place that will let you do alot of procedures like lines, suturing, etc. This is also a great place to learn how to properly place IV's. Important since you probably won't be doing too much of that as an intern. This is one skill that even most CA-1's and 2's struggle with.
Cards - bread and butter of anesthesia, especially arrhythmias. 1 month will be good. We end up being the cardiologists in the OR.
ICU - honestly, this is probably not that high yield unless you are at a place that makes you take overnight call with the residents. This is important as overnight, it's often just you and 1-2 others, so you actually get your hands dirty, as opposed to watching during the day when there is more that enough help around. Helps a bit for internship, but another month of IM would probably be more high yield.
Pulm - kind of low yield. Most pulm rotations focus on CF, sarcoid, etc. You should be able to learn about this at a decent IM internship. That said, if you plan to do a TY, this might not be too bad. You will probably never see a vent on this rotation. Maybe a bronch, but any competent CA-2 can bronch a patient.
Heme/Onc- actually a pretty high yield rotation. I mean, you'll be seeing a lot of bleeding in the OR with a lot of dyscrasias. Not to mention the fact that a vast number of your OR cases will be Onc related. Plus, the schedule is usually nice.
Radiology - will help for internship, not so much as an anes resident. Yes in the ICU, but you'll get enough as an intern for that.
Elective rotations in surgery - if you like 80 hour weeks, knock yourself out. I mean, yeah, trauma surg sounds like fun, but if you're the ER medical student, you see the same thing, without having to go to the OR where you'll spend 4 hours holding retractors.
That said, ortho rotations tend to be pretty good if you can put up with the personalities. They usually let you do a lot of stuff in the OR and will actually value your input (since you as a med student probably know more about internal medicine than they do - after a few ortho preops, you'll understand).
GI/ID - usually nice schedules if you have an interest in the topics.
Endo - OK, there are really only 3 things you need here - Adrenal insufficieny, Pheo's, and Diabetes. Yes, there is more to it, but it's so low yield for anesthesia. Don't spend a whole month on FNA and thyroid stuff that you will never use.
Wilderness med - just a fun rotation - wish i did it in med school.
Just my 2 cents...
That said, here is my view on some of the common electives-
ER - take 1-2 months of this if you're at a place that will let you do alot of procedures like lines, suturing, etc. This is also a great place to learn how to properly place IV's. Important since you probably won't be doing too much of that as an intern. This is one skill that even most CA-1's and 2's struggle with.
Cards - bread and butter of anesthesia, especially arrhythmias. 1 month will be good. We end up being the cardiologists in the OR.
ICU - honestly, this is probably not that high yield unless you are at a place that makes you take overnight call with the residents. This is important as overnight, it's often just you and 1-2 others, so you actually get your hands dirty, as opposed to watching during the day when there is more that enough help around. Helps a bit for internship, but another month of IM would probably be more high yield.
Pulm - kind of low yield. Most pulm rotations focus on CF, sarcoid, etc. You should be able to learn about this at a decent IM internship. That said, if you plan to do a TY, this might not be too bad. You will probably never see a vent on this rotation. Maybe a bronch, but any competent CA-2 can bronch a patient.
Heme/Onc- actually a pretty high yield rotation. I mean, you'll be seeing a lot of bleeding in the OR with a lot of dyscrasias. Not to mention the fact that a vast number of your OR cases will be Onc related. Plus, the schedule is usually nice.
Radiology - will help for internship, not so much as an anes resident. Yes in the ICU, but you'll get enough as an intern for that.
Elective rotations in surgery - if you like 80 hour weeks, knock yourself out. I mean, yeah, trauma surg sounds like fun, but if you're the ER medical student, you see the same thing, without having to go to the OR where you'll spend 4 hours holding retractors.
That said, ortho rotations tend to be pretty good if you can put up with the personalities. They usually let you do a lot of stuff in the OR and will actually value your input (since you as a med student probably know more about internal medicine than they do - after a few ortho preops, you'll understand).
GI/ID - usually nice schedules if you have an interest in the topics.
Endo - OK, there are really only 3 things you need here - Adrenal insufficieny, Pheo's, and Diabetes. Yes, there is more to it, but it's so low yield for anesthesia. Don't spend a whole month on FNA and thyroid stuff that you will never use.
Wilderness med - just a fun rotation - wish i did it in med school.
Just my 2 cents...
- Joined
- May 2, 2011
- Messages
- 962
- Reaction score
- 21
I did 3 anesthesia rotations - one at my med school which would've been my backup, and two "better" programs. I got into one of the better ones. I would take back the rotation at the other "better" program in hindsight, but how was I to know they were really malignant?
I also did a rotation in a Surgical ICU run by an anesthesiologist in a small university hospital, mostly to get a letter from that attending.
Radiology rotation is actually useful, on the days that you actually show up.
General surg was 1/2 trauma (*******s) and 1/2 bariatric (good anatomy)
Surgical subspecialties were useful and not that painful - urology and ENT - it's good to know what our surgical colleagues are doing and what they are worried about.
Peds Neurology -never again
Allergy/Immunology - I have bad allergies, so this was for my personal education
I also did a rotation in a Surgical ICU run by an anesthesiologist in a small university hospital, mostly to get a letter from that attending.
Radiology rotation is actually useful, on the days that you actually show up.
General surg was 1/2 trauma (*******s) and 1/2 bariatric (good anatomy)
Surgical subspecialties were useful and not that painful - urology and ENT - it's good to know what our surgical colleagues are doing and what they are worried about.
Peds Neurology -never again
Allergy/Immunology - I have bad allergies, so this was for my personal education
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2010
- Messages
- 1,671
- Reaction score
- 480
Remember, as a med student, your job is to figure out what you want to do. It's not really time to learn ABOUT what you want to do. If that makes sense at all.
In other words, learn what career you want to do. You will have the glory of four years of being a slave to actually learn about your practice. (I say slave but I enjoy it).
I did one rotation in anesthesiology, and that was enough. If you have a specific program in mind, try and do your rotation there. Shake hands. Be nice. Be earnest and proactive. But don't kill yourself or be overbearing. An important phrase to learn- "Is there anything I can help you with?" Lots of times you can really help some residents out if they are getting killed in quick turnover rooms or something.
In other words, learn what career you want to do. You will have the glory of four years of being a slave to actually learn about your practice. (I say slave but I enjoy it).
I did one rotation in anesthesiology, and that was enough. If you have a specific program in mind, try and do your rotation there. Shake hands. Be nice. Be earnest and proactive. But don't kill yourself or be overbearing. An important phrase to learn- "Is there anything I can help you with?" Lots of times you can really help some residents out if they are getting killed in quick turnover rooms or something.
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2008
- Messages
- 34,250
- Reaction score
- 917
I did my SICU rotations that were covered by the anesthesiology-CCM team. At one program, med students were only allowed to cover 2 patients. Thus, if we noticed a resident (who had to cover say 5-7) was behind due to an emergency code, or a stat line needing to be placed, we would help them by doing the necessary things: see the patient, fill out the progress note with vitals and their o/n ranges, labs, vent settings, key meds/abx the pt is on, Is/Os, drain output, line status, and see how the patient was doing compared to other days and how the patient was o/n. From there do my best to come up with a reasonable plan. I would then give the resident this progress note and give a brief run-down of the patient and they'd take that info and quickly see the pt themselves and make any adjustments to my "plan." I'd ask them for feedback on the pt, as well. This helped the residents immensely as they'd try to finish up everything before AM rounds.
So yes, while SICU could be "low yield" if you want it to be, you can make it very high yield if you put in some effort like others have mentioned.
I found that I learned a lot during my 2 months in the SICU than I did on many of my other rotations. This includes anesthesiology rotations. Sure, there's tubing and helping set up a room, pushing drugs and whatnot, discussing pharmacology and physiology a little bit, but I didn't feel that I was truly learning as a med student (sure, I read, but still). Of course, at this point, I've forgotten a good amount, but I imagine that a quick run-through and review while on a rotation would bring back a lot of the stuff I've "forgotten."
Maybe I should go into CCM in 4 years, but then again, I don't know if I really want to work in academia. I'll find out when I start, I guess
So yes, while SICU could be "low yield" if you want it to be, you can make it very high yield if you put in some effort like others have mentioned.
I found that I learned a lot during my 2 months in the SICU than I did on many of my other rotations. This includes anesthesiology rotations. Sure, there's tubing and helping set up a room, pushing drugs and whatnot, discussing pharmacology and physiology a little bit, but I didn't feel that I was truly learning as a med student (sure, I read, but still). Of course, at this point, I've forgotten a good amount, but I imagine that a quick run-through and review while on a rotation would bring back a lot of the stuff I've "forgotten."
Maybe I should go into CCM in 4 years, but then again, I don't know if I really want to work in academia. I'll find out when I start, I guess
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2004
- Messages
- 3,397
- Reaction score
- 10
Two months is sufficient to determine if you want to go into the field, IMO. It's also sufficient to obtain the necessary LORs, provided you have good exposure to the attendings (even if you don't you can still get one), and hopefully at least one would be at an academic institution with residents.
I'm a strong believer in using MS4 to strengthen your knowledge of MECIDINE. I would encourage a medicine sub-I over surgical. Your CA1-3 years will teach you anesthesiology, but use your time wisely to develop the skills which will set you apart from surgeons, which is a strong background in medicine. My opinion only.
Great electives, as you stated, are cardiology, pulmonology, ICU (any, really but surgical would be best).
good luck.
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2006
- Messages
- 7,313
- Reaction score
- 20,116
Can someone tell me how many LORs are from anesthesia on average? What other specialities are acceptable/unacceptable for asking for letters?
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2008
- Messages
- 34,250
- Reaction score
- 917
I had 2-3. But, not all were gen anesth.
I had 1 gen anesth and 2 anesth/crit care.
You're fine with 1 even.
Any specialty will be fine. Medicine/sub-spec and Surg are probably the best to get outside of anesth
Similar threads
