How many vegetarians?

[Pandacinny]

...I had Chick-fil-a for lunch.

I love vegetarians and many vegetarian dishes, but it's not the lifestyle for me.

I tried to be vegetarian for Lent last year and it was Chick-fil-a that did me in. Every time something went wrong (vet school denials, stressful day at the shelter), I would have it for dinner. Needless to say, I failed miserably at going veg.

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[Pandacinny]

My personal feeling is, I don't want the animal to see other animals being killed - right before its time of slaughter, and, I want the animal to die as quickly and painlessly as possible, and ideally, to have some semblance of a balanced life beforehand. If I could have that knowledge before putting the fork in my mouth, OK. But until I have reliable access to that kind of meal, I haven't eaten meat.

..............
Becoming a vegetarian has instilled in me even stronger feelings of respect and/or the knowledge that we need good food animal veterinarians and safety measures for the animal food supply. I know people are not going to stop eating meat (or eggs, milk, etc). With that thought in mind, safety and welfare are important to me.

Cookiebear, I just wanted to say what a nice, thoughtful response that was. I think you've summed up the concerns of a lot of the previous posters without being at all inflammatory or argumentative.

 

[thesonofdarwin]

However, my experience with hardcore vegans (usually PETA members to boot) has left me with a bitter taste in my mouth. They are generally hypocrites (*cough*like PETA*cough*) and usually don't know anything about what they are talking about except their regurgitations from PETA pamphlets. Note: I know not all vegans are this way. That has just been my experience with them.

Also note, not all PETA members are that way. The outspoken radicals are not representative of the whole. Quite similar to the radicals in almost every other group - religions, for example. I'm quite amazed at how the negative stigma attached to PETA has been so accepted that we are expected for some reason to distance ourselves from them. Needless to say I did not cancel my membership just because I'm a veterinarian student. Their goals ultimately don't conflict with job - not that our profession is or ever has been static.

As for the vegetarian thing - I think 15% of our class is vegetarian if I guesstimated right from the raised hands the other week when the class was asked. I myself have been for at least 9 years now. Some individuals still can't speak civilly about it, even [especially??] in Vet school so I wouldn't expect that to change. However, I don't see eating meat to be in conflict with our profession. I see it to be in conflict with other things, but I won't get into that.

PhunkeyPhish: Mine was VeggieBoy in high school Thankfully that is no longer the case. My mother likes to refer to me as an Ethiopian, though... not even sure where that came from, but it has unfortunately caught on *sigh*

 

[MooSuga]

I'm not a HUGE fan of red meat. I did eat alot of chicken, but nowadays...I stick to fish.

Being around my family is HARD when most of the dishes they serve is meat. I come from a Korean background, the signature dish is Gal-bi which is a Korean BBQ.

I'm not crazy about it.

But I rather have fish over meat

 

[Poochlover11]

Ya, I tried the vegetarian thing until on the first day I realized I just ate a pizza with sausage on it. What can I say. My question is how do you get all the nutrional requirements without meat? (and for vegans-without eggs, milk, cheese, etc?). I am diabetic and so meat is one of the few things that is carb free. I respect the vegetarians but it just isn't something I could do.

 

[BodhiBird]

It's actually pretty easy to get all the nutritional requirements. I have been vegetarian for over 5 years and I run nearly everyday and lift weights every other day... I'm certainly not suffering for nourishment. You just have to be sure to eat plenty of vegetables, hence "vege"tarian. Lots of new vegetarians make the mistake of eating high carbs which will only make for a fat vegetarian. I usually limit my carb intake to breakfast and then at dinner as well. And you have to be sure you are eating healthy carbs, like whole grain rice and pastas. I'll usually eat nearly zero carbs at lunch - usually make a big heaping salad. Protein is pretty easy too. I consume a lot of beans, eggs, cheese, and some milk. I try to only eat tofu occasionally. Actually protein is not usually something vegetarians have to worry about getting enough of. Iron and vitamin B are the biggest pit falls. But, I always start my day off with 100% of my daily iron requirements by eating grape nuts, and milk and eggs are a good source for vitamin B.

I like to point fingers at chimps and gorillas. Yes, chimps eat meat, but not nearly as much as humans do, and gorillas don't eat meat at all, yet these close relatives of ours still keep a hefty body figure

 

[Poochlover11]

It's actually pretty easy to get all the nutritional requirements. I have been vegetarian for over 5 years and I run nearly everyday and lift weights every other day... I'm certainly not suffering for nourishment. You just have to be sure to eat plenty of vegetables, hence "vege"tarian. Lots of new vegetarians make the mistake of eating high carbs which will only make for a fat vegetarian. I usually limit my carb intake to breakfast and then at dinner as well. And you have to be sure you are eating healthy carbs, like whole grain rice and pastas. I'll usually eat nearly zero carbs at lunch - usually make a big heaping salad. Protein is pretty easy too. I consume a lot of beans, eggs, cheese, and some milk. I try to only eat tofu occasionally. Actually protein is not usually something vegetarians have to worry about getting enough of. Iron and vitamin B are the biggest pit falls. But, I always start my day off with 100% of my daily iron requirements by eating grape nuts, and milk and eggs are a good source for vitamin B.

I like to point fingers at chimps and gorillas. Yes, chimps eat meat, but not nearly as much as humans do, and gorillas don't eat meat at all, yet these close relatives of ours still keep a hefty body figure

Haha, this is true. But you do happen to mention that you try to eat eggs, cheese, and milk for protein-Im just curious what the vegan does (beans? not a fan of beans, especially baked). I guess I already have to watch my diet (type one diabetes), so I don't really want to add being a vegetarian on top of it.

Haha-and I don't think I have ever seen a fat vegetarian before.....

 

[fargeese]

Just to clarify what an earlier VMRCVM poster said earlier- the vegan first year not only dropped out because of hating Anatomy lab but also because she was in terrible health.

We have lots of vegetarians and another Vegan in the class, who is doing just fine. The difference between the vegan who's left and the drop out though is that the one left (a) eats properly and is healthy and (b) she doesn't argue with the professors about animal rights. She provided entertainment, I'll give you that. Unfortunately she also looked terrible and was always missing class for vague medical reasons.

I guess my point is, vegetarianism or even veganism is fine if you are able to do it healthy and it doesn't impact what you have to do in school. But as the former lab partner of said drop-out, you need to pull your weight in Anatomy or surgery or whatever, because there are others depending on you, even if you have a problem with it morally.

 

[Groominator]

I like to point fingers at chimps and gorillas. Yes, chimps eat meat, but not nearly as much as humans do, and gorillas don't eat meat at all, yet these close relatives of ours still keep a hefty body figure

You shouldn't point too much, gorillas and many other primates that are primarily vegeterian have digestive systems that are made to digest plant matter very efficiently. This varies from different enzymes, and length of the gut that allows plant matter to remain in the GI tract long enough to break down. That's why many primates have those huge bellies, they need room for all that extra intestine length. Humans do not have this efficacy for plant matter and can only get so much out of a plant-based diet.

"Unlike humans, the digestive tract of gorillas is equipped to manufacture the essential amino acids and other vital nutrients. The human digestive system is not so equipped and we must rely on animal proteins. "

"One misconception about the gorilla diet is that it contains no animal products. On the contrary, all of the great ape groups take in some animal protein, whether overtly or inadvertently, by consuming insects, insect eggs and the larvae that nest on the plants and fruits they eat."
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/gorilla.html

 

[Beanjamime]

I'm not a HUGE fan of red meat. I did eat alot of chicken, but nowadays...I stick to fish.

Being around my family is HARD when most of the dishes they serve is meat. I come from a Korean background, the signature dish is Gal-bi which is a Korean BBQ.

I'm not crazy about it.

But I rather have fish over meat

I'm Korean and I've been vegetarian for 15 years. Haha all because of a really nasty hamburger I had when I was 12 years old. My family has always made something vegetarain for me when we get together so it has never been a problem. They always used to think it was a phase I would grow out of, but they've given up on that now.

 

[BB KitKat]

I am a vegan. I am not sure how respecting all life as a vegan is in contradiction to a career of saving and helping animals as a veterinarian. Being vegan does cause me to pay attention to animal use in vet schools, something the average non-veg applicant might not consider. Western and Tufts are the two top schools in this respect. I don't belive the vegan at VMRCVM can be representative of us all- a well informed vegan would reseach animal use when considering schools, and eats a healthy diet.
Being a healthy vegan is not difficult. For example, I don't even take iron supplements and my hemoglobin is in the 14 range.

 

[Selkie2283]

Haha-and I don't think I have ever seen a fat vegetarian before.....

I'm a fat vegetarian, and I've been a fat vegetarian for most of my life! I know lots of fat vegetarians. There are lots of "nutrient dense" vegetarian foods, shall we say? It's ridiculously easy to get -enough- nutrients as a vegetarian. On the contrary, I find that I generally eat a more nutrient-diverse diet than many of my omnivorous friends, who have never really had any reason to give thought to what they eat.

It seems popular that when vegetarianism, and especially veganism gets brought up, people start bringing up examples of unhealthy vegans they knew, or questioning how they get enough nutrients. What I find amusing about that is that there seems to be some assumption with this line of thought, that meat eaters are all eating well-balanced, nutritionally satisfying meals, which is definitely not the case. In fact, you're more likely to get asked about your nutrient intake as a veg* than you are as a low-calorie dieter! I probably consume 2000+ calories a day, and you're wondering where I'm getting my protein!? No worries, my friend! It's in there!!

 

[Poochlover11]

I'm a fat vegetarian, and I've been a fat vegetarian for most of my life! I know lots of fat vegetarians. There are lots of "nutrient dense" vegetarian foods, shall we say? It's ridiculously easy to get -enough- nutrients as a vegetarian. On the contrary, I find that I generally eat a more nutrient-diverse diet than many of my omnivorous friends, who have never really had any reason to give thought to what they eat.

It seems popular that when vegetarianism, and especially veganism gets brought up, people start bringing up examples of unhealthy vegans they knew, or questioning how they get enough nutrients. What I find amusing about that is that there seems to be some assumption with this line of thought, that meat eaters are all eating well-balanced, nutritionally satisfying meals, which is definitely not the case. In fact, you're more likely to get asked about your nutrient intake as a veg* than you are as a low-calorie dieter! I probably consume 2000+ calories a day, and you're wondering where I'm getting my protein!? No worries, my friend! It's in there!!

Haha-I hope you didn't take offense to my comment. I thought about that later and really hoped people would take it offensively. Most vegeterians that I know are slim. My brother's girlfriend decided to become a vegetarian and she has lost weight since then. I am sure there are vegetarians that get enough nutrients. I was just curious how you guys take care of protein. I know that there are lots of carbs and sweets still available to vegetarians-which can be a problem.

 

[Selkie2283]

I've been a vegetarian for 15 years now.

I wish everyone could get away from the notion of whether or not it's hypocritical to be <fill in the blank> in relation to <fill in the blank> We all get to choose where our lines will be drawn in the sand, and largely that is a combination of personal beliefs and personal abilities. I make as many lifestyle choices as I am "able" to stay in line with my beliefs. I left one undergrad program for another in order to have my beliefs on animal use respected. My intent is to attend Tufts (well, Cummings...I hate it when things change names) because they appear to have the most progressive program in terms of animal use in the classroom. I hope to become a holistic veterinarian, relying on fewer pharmaceuticals. I'm under no illusions that I can eliminate the shadow of animal testing from all aspects of my life and practice, but you don't have to take everything to the extreme to make a difference. My decisions and choices aren't always "perfectly" in line with my moral beliefs, but I really try to make sure the "big ones" are.

I think the really important thing is to have beliefs worth standing up for, worth making difficult decisions over.

 

[Poochlover11]

I've been a vegetarian for 15 years now.

I wish everyone could get away from the notion of whether or not it's hypocritical to be <fill in the blank> in relation to <fill in the blank> We all get to choose where our lines will be drawn in the sand, and largely that is a combination of personal beliefs and personal abilities. I make as many lifestyle choices as I am "able" to stay in line with my beliefs. I left one undergrad program for another in order to have my beliefs on animal use respected. My intent is to attend Tufts (well, Cummings...I hate it when things change names) because they appear to have the most progressive program in terms of animal use in the classroom. I hope to become a holistic veterinarian, relying on fewer pharmaceuticals. I'm under no illusions that I can eliminate the shadow of animal testing from all aspects of my life and practice, but you don't have to take everything to the extreme to make a difference. My decisions and choices aren't always "perfectly" in line with my moral beliefs, but I really try to make sure the "big ones" are.

I think the really important thing is to have beliefs worth standing up for, worth making difficult decisions over.

That is very respectable. I applaud you for that. I as well have my own beliefs and feel it is important to know where you stand. I have seen mentioned above that some people have had issues with certain labs in vet school. How do you think you will handle that in vet school, will it be an issue for you? Curious.

 

[Selkie2283]

No offense taken! It's a pretty common misconception, and I'm not much sensitive over my weight. There are many slim vegetarians, and vegans definitely have fewer tempting goodies. Depending on what your diet was like BEFORE going veg, it is pretty common to lose weight. If only cupcakes were made of baby bunnies, I would be far more slender indeed!

My protein largely comes from brown rice and whole grains, eggs, soy (in various incarnations), a product called "Quorn" (it's a meat substitute, non-soy), nuts, some beans, and high protein veggies like broccoli and spinach.

A typical dinner for my husband and I is stir-fried or curried veggies and tofu on a bed of brown rice, or marinated Quorn cutlets (the chicken-like) with an herbed pilaf of quinoa and steamed mixed veggies. Nothing too crazy!

 

[Selkie2283]

That is very respectable. I applaud you for that. I as well have my own beliefs and feel it is important to know where you stand. I have seen mentioned above that some people have had issues with certain labs in vet school. How do you think you will handle that in vet school, will it be an issue for you? Curious.

You can read Tufts' policy on animal use here: http://www.tufts.edu/vet/dvm/animal_use.html

They have eliminated terminal procedures, dissections (on dogs) are done on client-donated cadavers (companion animals euthanized for health reasons, and donated to the school) and surgical experience now starts on donated cadavers and live experience is gained in valuable community spay and neuter programs (instead of a terminal surgery), for starters. I don't think I could complete my veterinary education any other way. I know of only two programs that have committed to this, Tufts being one, and Western University. Western is private, IS/OOS makes no different, and I am most certainly OOS for Tufts. I am very commited to being accepted by Tufts

 

[Poochlover11]

You can read Tufts' policy on animal use here: http://www.tufts.edu/vet/dvm/animal_use.html

They have eliminated terminal procedures, dissections (on dogs) are done on client-donated cadavers (companion animals euthanized for health reasons, and donated to the school) and surgical experience now starts on donated cadavers and live experience is gained in valuable community spay and neuter programs (instead of a terminal surgery), for starters. I don't think I could complete my veterinary education any other way. I know of only two programs that have committed to this, Tufts being one, and Western University. Western is private, IS/OOS makes no different, and I am most certainly OOS for Tufts. I am very commited to being accepted by Tufts

I don't blame you. I do NOT like the idea of terminal labs. I use to work at the vet schools farm that kept large animals for research and dogs that were used for terminal surgeries at the vet school. It was so sad to interact with those dogs and know that someday soon they were going to the vet school where they would be euthanized after the surgery. I know I have heard the saying "one dies, to save hundreds more.'' But it is so sad when you actually get to know each of those dogs that the vet students work on.

There was one dog in particular that I loved so much. His name was Big Red and he was a mix betwen beagle and bassett, I think. He was such a sweetie. It was terrible when left, because I knew I would never see him again.

 

[Selkie2283]

I think the days of "one dies to save hundreds more" is over. I think most will agree that Tufts is no shabby university! If they can make these changes without sacrificing the quality of their program, ALL of the schools can. We're a very clever species, us humans. If we commit to ending these kinds of tragic procedures, there's no reason it can't be accomplished, without any sacrifice to the quality of doctors. And emphasizing and reinforcing compassion in future vets is a GOOD thing!

 

[Poochlover11]

I think the days of "one dies to save hundreds more" is over. I think most will agree that Tufts is no shabby university! If they can make these changes without sacrificing the quality of their program, ALL of the schools can. We're a very clever species, us humans. If we commit to ending these kinds of tragic procedures, there's no reason it can't be accomplished, without any sacrifice to the quality of doctors. And emphasizing and reinforcing compassion in future vets is a GOOD thing!

I wish it were true for more universities-including my in state university. May think about applying to tufts. I started crying thinking about that dog again because he was so special-wonder if the vets who worked on him knew that.

 

[Selkie2283]

Some schools will allow you to "opt-out" for some of the procedures, with alternatives. When I started my undergrad at WSU, there were two vet students there working very hard to get alternatives in place. The undergrad program there was so discouraging to me that I dropped, and am only now returning to a different school to finish my pre-vet. That may be worth looking into, as well. Here is a link with some information on how schools stack up in regards to humane education: http://www.avar.org/tech_school.asp

The comparison chart is a bit cumbersome, but I think you'll agree that worth your time as far as determing options. Good luck! You're not alone in how you feel!

 

[LadyHitokiri]

I wish it were true for more universities-including my in state university. May think about applying to tufts. I started crying thinking about that dog again because he was so special-wonder if the vets who worked on him knew that.

I know that Iowa State has a sort of special thing where you can request to adopt a certain dog after spaying or neutering it, to prevent this sort of issue from occurring. I know it is easy to get attached to an animal, even if you've only known it for a short time. I am sorry for your bad experience though.

Hah. I know that no matter where I go, that when it comes time to learn surgeries, I'm going to come home with SOME dog and my mother WON'T be thrilled.