How much debt will you be in?

[Moonpaw]

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My boss's advice for me for vet school: come out of it debt free. And how do you propose I do that?

It sounds like that book, "Rich Dad, Poor Dad." His solution for getting out of the rat race is to invest your money in assets that provide income, instead of relying on income from your job to survive. It's brilliant advice, but of course, he doesn't actually say how to do it. It seems like the way to make money is to write a book on how to make money.

 

[frozen_canadian]

As a Canadian, I am lucky enough to have cheap tuition ($7000/ year). I will come out of school with some debt, though it should be less than $30,000. I feel for people with much larger debt loads, but its a choice. I know for a fact that if I was facing >$100,000 in debt I would not have gone to veterinary school. I love the field, but I don't love it enough to be saddled with a 30 year loan payment. I think the DVM article was a very good one, and should be required reading for anyone considering vet school.

 

[laurafinn]

For anyone who is interested in further reading, if you can get your hands on "The Elephant in the Room" article, (as mentioned in the DVM news article) it is an interesting read--if not a bit depressing. .

Here the article and presentation are:

http://www.ohiostatevbma.org/inviting

 

[lailanni]

It sounds like that book, "Rich Dad, Poor Dad." His solution for getting out of the rat race is to invest your money in assets that provide income, instead of relying on income from your job to survive. It's brilliant advice, but of course, he doesn't actually say how to do it. It seems like the way to make money is to write a book on how to make money.

I read that book. He really really encourages people to buy his board game. For "only $120". Yeah, I'm going to start selling $120 board games.

He does stress getting assets that provide income. But I have no disposable income to purchase assets....

 

[PJlovin]

There's a really interesting (and rather depressing) article in this month's edition of DVM Newsmagazine about veterinary graduates' debt to income ratio. Its worth a read if you can get your hands on a copy.

Yeah... I read that article at my vet clinic last weekend. I can't get it out of my head. I was talking to one of the vets yesterday, he went to school and raised his daughter on his own while he was there and he was like...you just have to forget about it!! I looked at him and was like, "You took out loans, right? You're still paying them AND you have 2 kids now...and you're still smiling...right?!?"
With a big smile on his face, He goes, "I was poor before I started vet school...and I'm poor now...so really, nothings changed!" lol

But I STILL can't get that article out of my head!!! 🙁 I'm planning on going to Glasgow. Fortunate to have zero debt from undergrad or credit cards. Have a good amount in investments that will be spent before I start taking out loans....granted, I would have preferred to use that money for a down payment on a house after I graduate.....but in the end, I imagine I'll end up being around $160-170K in debt....it's a lot to swallow.

 

[vegetablesoup]

Count your blessing to the people with no or little debt coming out of vet school! (in fact, we should all count them since we'll be going to vet school, right?)

But for the rest of us living off loans and in high loan debt at the end, I'd say we do lottery pools together! Maybe one of us will win and we can distribute the cash amoung our classmates to help pay of the loans!

 

[birdvet2006]

..but in the end, I imagine I'll end up being around $160-170K in debt....it's a lot to swallow.

Really, PJlovin? I was at least $194k in debt after graduating from Glasgow (also no undergrad debt or beginning credit card debt). The tuition is higher for you, and the dollar value is lower...so I doubt you can keep your debt as low as you stated. 🙁

 

[VAgirl]

Really, PJlovin? I was at least $194k in debt after graduating from Glasgow (also no undergrad debt or beginning credit card debt). The tuition is higher for you, and the dollar value is lower...so I doubt you can keep your debt as low as you stated. 🙁

PJ mentioned having some savings that would be used before loans were taken out. That might be the difference.

 

[projekt]

It sounds like that book, "Rich Dad, Poor Dad." His solution for getting out of the rat race is to invest your money in assets that provide income, instead of relying on income from your job to survive. It's brilliant advice, but of course, he doesn't actually say how to do it. It seems like the way to make money is to write a book on how to make money.

A book with a better explanation of how to do this is Your Money Or Your Life by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin.

 

[tealamutt]

I for one am keeping my fingers crossed on idaho getting it together with a rural vet program...

 

[PJlovin]

Really, PJlovin? I was at least $194k in debt after graduating from Glasgow (also no undergrad debt or beginning credit card debt). The tuition is higher for you, and the dollar value is lower...so I doubt you can keep your debt as low as you stated. 🙁

I've got about $90K in the bank...so that, plus a $160-170K loan....sure hope it's not more than $260K!!!

 

[PJlovin]

PJ mentioned having some savings that would be used before loans were taken out. That might be the difference.

Exactly. I mean...I would MUCH rather keep my savings and buy a house after I graduate, but using it for vet school will reduce my loan amount and the amount I'll pay in interest thru the years.
So I'm planning on using the full amount I qualify for in subsidized loans and my own money for the remainder of the costs. This way I can avoid having to pay any interest on any of that....at least not until the grace period is over on the subsidized loans.

 

[reefervet]

I'm already nearly 70K in debt for undergrad, and I'm going to Western -- between its already high tuition and then its cost of living, I may be nearing $300K by the end. 😱 But hey, it's worth it, right? 😛

Wow, you must really love Western's philosophy, and really hate Oregon's.😱

 

[VAgirl]

Exactly. I mean...I would MUCH rather keep my savings and buy a house after I graduate, but using it for vet school will reduce my loan amount and the amount I'll pay in interest thru the years.
So I'm planning on using the full amount I qualify for in subsidized loans and my own money for the remainder of the costs. This way I can avoid having to pay any interest on any of that....at least not until the grace period is over on the subsidized loans.

That's my plan, too. Not that I have that much $$ in the bank (thanks, grad school and condo mortgage!), but I plan to take all the sub loans I get (free money until I enter repayment) and pay out of pocket for the rest of the cost for as long as I can. I actually specifically paid off my unsub loans from grad school as fast as possible while only paying the minimum on my sub loans, even once I'd finished paying off the unsub. That way I could stash money in the bank to use instead of taking out more unsub loans for vet school when my previous sub loans from grad school would become subsidized again anyhow. Thank goodness I've got a financially savvy person on my team (he figured that out for me, I just wanted to pay off all of my loans ASAP😛).

 

[PrimalMU]

I was lucky enough to have gotten through undergrad without any student loans. However, I really wish I'd decided to take out all the subsidized student loans I could and put them into a separate savings account to accrue interest. By the time 4 years was up, the interest alone would have paid off all the loan fees, etc, and I may have actually been ahead by a few hundred. At the very least it would have given me $40k of extra subsidized student loans, which probably would have made it possible to get through my schooling without any unsubsidized loans.

*shrugs* Hind-sight is 20/20 I suppose.

 

[PJlovin]

Thank goodness I've got a financially savvy person on my team (he figured that out for me, I just wanted to pay off all of my loans ASAP😛).

I wish I had someone like that. All this financial/loan mumbo jumbo is SO foreign to me. I hope I can figure it all out with no problems!

 

[PJlovin]

However, I really wish I'd decided to take out all the subsidized student loans I could and put them into a separate savings account to accrue interest.
.

This is a good idea! I'm definitely going to look into this!! 👍

 

[lcarter103]

How can a vet student intend to be $0 in debt at the end? Unless Mommy and Daddy are paying, I'm just not understanding that. Of course, there are the Army and USDS programs, but you are still in debt to them, just not monetarily.

I will be $0 in debt at the end of vet school. I am a student in Canada, so vet school is subsidized and thus much more reasonable here (about $7000/year). Plus I'm married and between my husband's salary and our savings we won't have to go into debt. I am very lucky, and really feel for those of you having to go so deep into debt!

 

[elkbrucellaguy]

I'm in the same boat with most of the people on this thread. I'm going to be OOS at Colorado State so after 4 years plus one semester at Emory University I am looking at a total debt of.... (drumroll please)

$237,456.00

SAWEET! It will probably be higher with unpaid interest on my un-sub loans and stuff.

Oh well, it will be worth it right?

 

[dyachei]

I'm in the same boat with most of the people on this thread. I'm going to be OOS at Colorado State so after 4 years plus one semester at Emory University I am looking at a total debt of.... (drumroll please)

$237,456.00

SAWEET! It will probably be higher with unpaid interest on my un-sub loans and stuff.

Oh well, it will be worth it right?

Did you go to Emory for undergrad or just one semester? I went there, so I'm just curious. Pre-vets are a rare breed there.

 

[elkbrucellaguy]

Did you go to Emory for undergrad or just one semester? I went there, so I'm just curious. Pre-vets are a rare breed there.

One semester as a MPH student, before I decided I didn't like their curriculum for epidemiology especially for the cost of 20K/semester. And actually the state vet for GA was the one that convinced me to go into vet med, so I should be thankful for that!

 

[athenaparthenos]

Wow, you must really love Western's philosophy, and really hate Oregon's.😱

Hate's definitely too strong a word (mainly nothing at Oregon really stood out to me) -- but I did really love Western's curriculum. 😍 Plus I won't have to live 1500 miles away from my boyfriend 9 months out of the year at Western, and that carries a lot of weight for me, as we've been together 3 years and I'd very much like to keep adding to that number. 😀

 

[david594]

Is anybody else terrified that the most popular response has been 200k+? Understandably so, since many people here have decided on schools like Penn and Tufts, but still! 😱

Tufts is my in state school. I wish it was cheaper, but its not. On a plus side though if I end up getting to choose between instate and out of state, money will play very little in the decision because both are very expensive.

Every option I have will be 200k+.

A semi serious plan of mine is to go to spend the 200k and go to school in canada. I would atleast be able to work there over breaks and during the summer as opposed to other international schools. In the mean time I would be taking out my loans in US dollars. After I graduate I would have a good shot at staying in canada, working their and loving that socialized healthcare. 🙂 Say a prayer the US dollar keeps crashing so that my students loans keep getting cheaper while I am raking in the loonies!

 

[Hobiecat1642]

I got into MN OOS and glasgow, so either way, I'm screwed for loans. Plus I have undergrad debt from my post bacc studies. I plan to just be as frugal as possible and hope that it all works out. Applying again to get IS (at UPENN, LOL) is obviously not an option.

 

[frozen_canadian]

So here's a different spin on the debt issue. Who is going to buy all the practices out there? 10 years from now will most practices by run by Banfield, simply because all the newly graduated vets are all in far too much debt to even think about buying into a practice, never mind a house?

 

[Moonpaw]

Possibly all the people who are going to have no debt coming out of school?

But that would also assume that they REALLY know how to manage their money well, since they still won't be making a whole lot.

 

[VelcroSky]

So here's a different spin on the debt issue. Who is going to buy all the practices out there? 10 years from now will most practices by run by Banfield, simply because all the newly graduated vets are all in far too much debt to even think about buying into a practice, never mind a house?

It would seem that that is the trend regardless of the debt issue. Just like so many industries, the vet business is going corporate.

 

[projekt]

I think the Banfield market will not eclipse the rest, simply because of the way they operate. What kind of vet wants to work there? The computers do the Dx, the support staff is paid market or below-market.

VCA, on the other hand, seems to have an expansionary model. I suppose they want to be HCA for the vet world, taking over the facilities and upping the prices.

Still, with all that going on, a little practice can stay afloat with a solid client list and some business savvy.

 

[Moonpaw]

I think the problem isn't that a practice can't stay alive, it's just that retiring vets looking to sell their practice won't be able to find a young vet who can afford it, and bigger corporations can.

 

[VAgirl]

I think the Banfield market will not eclipse the rest, simply because of the way they operate. What kind of vet wants to work there? The computers do the Dx

Um...that's not true. First off, computers cannot diagnose. They can be used as tools in diagnostics (machinery to run blood work, etc.), but that's all. At Banfield, the computer system is used for two major things: 1) To keep an electronic rather than paper version of the patient's chart, and 2) To prompt the techs/doctors on all of the body systems to check during a routine physical exam, giving them space to enter their findings as normal or abnormal, with comments.

I'm not singing Banfield's praises. There are lots of things about them that I dislike (worked there for a year, so I'm familiar with it). But c'mon, let's keep our issues with Banfield in the realm of the realistic. The doctors do the diagnosing there just as they do at any hospital. Now, perhaps you have an issue with how well they diagnose or some other related complaint. But it's hard to label the entire company; that kind of thing does vary somewhat from location to location depending upon the doctors.

 

[nyanko]

The problem I had when I worked at Banfield may have been isolated to my particular Banfield, but I didn't like the way that the techs did the initial "exam" and the doctor only went in and looked at what the tech marked "irregular" or whatever on the computer. At the non-corporate clinic where I worked for much longer, the doctors would come into the room and do a full exam on every patient regardless of what the major complaint was.

I also didn't like how the techs were expected to basically write up the records themselves in the computers. The doctors glanced at them every night, but honestly I don't think they really read over them to make sure that they were complete. I feel like there is a lot of room for error if you are trusting techs to do things like that, and isn't it the vet's license that's at stake ultimately? If I were a vet there I'd be paranoid about that.

 

[VAgirl]

The problem I had when I worked at Banfield may have been isolated to my particular Banfield, but I didn't like the way that the techs did the initial "exam" and the doctor only went in and looked at what the tech marked "irregular" or whatever on the computer.

I think the vets reviewed everything at the Banfield that I worked at, but paid special attention to what had been marked abnormal/irregular. But techs doing the exams with variable doctor follow up is certainly a valid complaint.

I was really just trying to address the claim that "computers do the Dx" claim.🙄

 

[sheep girl]

I am planning to take over a practice when I get out. My family vet (we are really close) told me if he is still has his practice when I graduate that I can have it.

I am just worried that changes in the cattle industry in southwest LA from Rita will limit my chances for success as a food animal vet.

 

[VAgirl]

To answer the original question, it looks like I could end up with $80K of debt. I tried to account for rising cost of tuition/fees and only considered tuition, fees, and books since the SO will be working and we won't need to take out "cost of living" loans. Also I didn't include year one in my calculations as we've figured we won't need to take out loans until year 2. Approx $64K of the $80K would be from vet school; I'll be coming in with ~$16K of grad school debt (subsidized, yay).

Sheesh, even though it's not a lot compared to some folks, it's still a lot! I'm definitely looking for ways to bring this figure down! (Um...legal ways. Just in case, you know, anyone has an overactive imagination. I don't go in for the bank robbing or anything.😉)

 

[lailanni]

Sheesh, even though it's not a lot compared to some folks, it's still a lot! I'm definitely looking for ways to bring this figure down! (Um...legal ways. Just in case, you know, anyone has an overactive imagination. I don't go in for the bank robbing or anything.😉)

Oh I dunno, the bank robbing seems like a good way to pay it all off at once.

If you need anyone to drive the getaway car.......😀

 

[Steelmagghia]

Oh I dunno, the bank robbing seems like a good way to pay it all off at once.

If you need anyone to drive the getaway car.......😀

See, I was totally thinking of stripping, man.
And then I thought about how utterly strange it would be to treat a "patron's" pet.

Totally kidding about that stripping thing, though. Seriously, I like clothing, it's good stuff man.

 

[Moonpaw]

Seriously, I like clothing, it's good stuff man.

I feel the same way. Too bad my roommate's boyfriend doesn't, and feels the need to walk around the room shirtless at all hours of the day/night.

 

[twelvetigers]

VCA, on the other hand, seems to have an expansionary model. I suppose they want to be HCA for the vet world, taking over the facilities and upping the prices.

VCA Antech is having a lot of turmoil in its corporate ladder, currently. Chiefly because of people getting fed up and quitting. You didn't hear that from me, though. 😉

 

[eatpinkpenguins]

http://www.ohiostatevbma.org/inviting

This thread is a little old, but here's the link to the Elephant in the Room if anyone is interested. Or wants to cry

 

[ReadyBeVet]

There's a really interesting (and rather depressing) article in this month's edition of DVM Newsmagazine about veterinary graduates' debt to income ratio. Its worth a read if you can get your hands on a copy.

I read the article. It is quite interesting. Though I'm not sure that their "answers" are realistic to all practices. For instance, I now work at a very new private practice (2 years old). They're still acquiring clients. There is no way to increase the number of appointments and maximize the doctors time if you don't physically have a bazillion clients yet.

 

[flyhi]

How can a vet student intend to be $0 in debt at the end? Unless Mommy and Daddy are paying, I'm just not understanding that.

Perhaps we have worked our tails off in the real world and saved some $$ 🙄. Or, we paid our mortgage religiously for years and years, built up equity and sold it for a profit? It is possible to actually pay out of pocket for education if you have been working for a while and managed your funds wisely.

Don't understand what would be wrong with Mommy or Daddy paying. Didn't happen for me, but would not have turned it down since I did get an athletic scholarship to college.

 

[nyanko]

Don't understand what would be wrong with Mommy or Daddy paying. Didn't happen for me, but would not have turned it down since I did get an athletic scholarship to college.

Happened for me in undergrad. 😀

But, another way someone could have 0 debt is if they were in a DVM/PhD program that pays for vet school.

 

[TSUJC]

I wish there was a facebook "share" link for that elephant in the room article. My friends are so clueless, at least once a week someone tells me that I am going to be rich, because vets make a ton of money! 🙄

 

[twelvetigers]

You can share that easily - just copy the URL and paste it in where you would put a status update. 🙂

 

[aprilm]

Gah. This whole thread is making me rethink, yet again, my decision to go to vet school. It just is not feasible to make a salary of $70k, paying $1k+/month in student debts for 30 years.

A lot of people have told me over the years, "Don't do vet med! Do human medicine!"

 

[twelvetigers]

If that's something you feel you could do, then you should certainly consider it. A lot of us have, you know. 🙂

 

[Caninerepro]

$260,000.00 between undergrad, graduate and vet school. It will take me 30 years to pay that off!

 

[calioutlaw1a]

I got through undergrad without any debt. The average UC Davis vet student is about $100,000 in debt upon graduation. However, one of the largest expenses is the cost of living, which is basically free for me. I'm guessing I'll be around $80,000 in debt, hopefully less.

 

[AidanEvieCleo]

I got through undergrad without any debt. The average UC Davis vet student is about $100,000 in debt upon graduation. However, one of the largest expenses is the cost of living, which is basically free for me. I'm guessing I'll be around $80,000 in debt, hopefully less.

Have you looked at the current budget for UC Davis? If prices stay the same we will be paying $108,459 just for tuition! Maybe you are a lucky one who already has money saved to go towards school.

You can see to budget here: http://budget.ucdavis.edu/studentfees/preliminary-fees

I think I will be at least $150,000 in debt🙁 Which I find quiet terrifying

 

[GeeQued]

I got through undergrad without any debt. The average UC Davis vet student is about $100,000 in debt upon graduation. However, one of the largest expenses is the cost of living, which is basically free for me. I'm guessing I'll be around $80,000 in debt, hopefully less.

I'm estimating Ill be around 80,000 as well at UCD. I took out a little more in loans that I had figured into my budget since it was my first time taking a loan (I worked all the way through undergrad so i would have one less debt to worry about too) and I wanted to cover my bases so at the most I'm figuring 120,000 at the very most but more thank likely 20,000/year in loans