MOHS_01

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The NYT is a worthless rag that, in a fair and just world, will befall the same fate as the Chicago Tribune.......

They mention that "direct comparisons between countries can be tricky"; I suppose that is the intellectually dishonest way of saying "direct comparisons between countries are inherently flawed and virtually worthless".
 

MOHS_01

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I would also like to point out that "pay" is more appropriately viewed in its relative sense; that is, we do not work for $x, we work for purchasing power. Purchasing power is relative to competing interests purchasing power -- therefore, the single best indicator of physician "pay" is the column that denotes the multiple of per capita GDP.

Also, it is amazing the number of physicians, much less the public, who have a poor understanding of elementary accounting and economics. News flash for the commenters (many of whom claimed to be practicing physicians) -- a 21% reduction in reimbursement does not translate into a 21% reduction in pay (you *****)... it is compounded as a function of costs. There are two sides to income statements and balance sheets.......
 

mwest

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I would also like to point out that "pay" is more appropriately viewed in its relative sense; that is, we do not work for $x, we work for purchasing power. Purchasing power is relative to competing interests purchasing power -- therefore, the single best indicator of physician "pay" is the column that denotes the multiple of per capita GDP.

Also, it is amazing the number of physicians, much less the public, who have a poor understanding of elementary accounting and economics. News flash for the commenters (many of whom claimed to be practicing physicians) -- a 21% reduction in reimbursement does not translate into a 21% reduction in pay (you *****)... it is compounded as a function of costs. There are two sides to income statements and balance sheets.......
MOH is right on target. I know personally lots of physicians ( interestingly a lot of them are PCPs) who do very well in SE Asian Countries (India, etc). If you quote $ amounts it wouldn't make any sense. What the NYT graph shows is misleading and can make the public to think US doctors are overpaid.
 

McGillGrad

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MOH is right on target. I know personally lots of physicians ( interestingly a lot of them are PCPs) who do very well in SE Asian Countries (India, etc). If you quote $ amounts it wouldn't make any sense. What the NYT graph shows is misleading and can make the public to think US doctors are overpaid.
Yeah, that's why ONLY developed nations are listed (minus Mexico and Hungary). Your point is invalid.
 

frank51

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MOH is right on target. I know personally lots of physicians ( interestingly a lot of them are PCPs) who do very well in SE Asian Countries (India, etc). If you quote $ amounts it wouldn't make any sense. What the NYT graph shows is misleading and can make the public to think US doctors are overpaid.
Do you have any idea about how much money doctors make in Singapore or UAE? From what I've read its substantially less than what doctor make in the US, albeit that my change in the near future, with pay cuts and higher taxes.
 

Mistress S

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The NYT articles mentions- towards the end and almost in passing- that "health care professionals in other O.E.C.D. countries pay much less (if anything) for their medical educations than do their American counterparts. In other words, doctors and nurses in the rest of the industrialized world start their medical careers with much less student loan debt compared to medical graduates in the United States." This is a significant point that bears much more emphasis than I think the general public realizes. Most people outside of medicine are shocked when I tell them how much I owe- and that is less than the average for my school. According to the AMA, the average med student debt in 2007 was over $139,000, and that number has likely only increased since then.

In my experience, most people not in the medical field have no idea that most doctors must essentially take out a mortgage to finance their education. While most physicians manage a decent standard of living once out of residency even with this kind of debt load, this article does a disservice to the public and medical profession by comparing doctor's salaries without making clear that US doctors don't just graduate with a tad more debt than other countries, but actually incur tens of thousands of debt (which we must pay back with interest) compared to a usually free education in other industrialized countries. This is not to mention the myriad other cost/reimbursement differences between here and other countries, such as malpractice costs and the high administrative overhead here required to deal with our numerous insurance companies, that the article does not address. The average person reading this article would get the impression that as a soon-to-be pediatrician I'll be living high on the hog- I'm sure I'll be comfortable (and should be, after spending 11 years of my life training to serve the public), but I'm not exactly going to be driving a bentley and vacationing in the south of france every year.
 

dilated

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Wow. Mind bendingly dishonest to not even MENTION hours worked, where American doctors work substantially more hours than doctors in other countries. Soon enough in the EU even residents won't have to work more than 48 hours a week. Guess we ought to make double what they do then, huh?

The NYT is a rag with an agenda. I have never seen anything about doctors in there that did not bash them for something. Its impending bankruptcy will be a day of happiness.
 

MOHS_01

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Interesting. What do you consider a reputable and trustworthy daily?
Definitely not the NYT. Actually, most are biased -- but not to the extreme of the NYT. There is not one single unbiased source for all info -- that is why one should assimilate info from multiple sources. Google news has been a Godsend for those who would like to take the world in through a variety of prisms.
 

MOHS_01

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wow. Mind bendingly dishonest to not even mention hours worked, where american doctors work substantially more hours than doctors in other countries. Soon enough in the eu even residents won't have to work more than 48 hours a week. Guess we ought to make double what they do then, huh?

The nyt is a rag with an agenda. I have never seen anything about doctors in there that did not bash them for something. Its impending bankruptcy will be a day of happiness.
:)
 

MOHS_01

audemus jura nostra defendere
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wow. Mind bendingly dishonest to not even mention hours worked, where american doctors work substantially more hours than doctors in other countries. Soon enough in the eu even residents won't have to work more than 48 hours a week. Guess we ought to make double what they do then, huh?

The nyt is a rag with an agenda. I have never seen anything about doctors in there that did not bash them for something. its impending bankruptcy will be a day of happiness.
:)