How much do publication HELP an MD/PhD app?

[Coclean]

Ok, I've read all the threads about publicaitons not being neccesary, but I am trying to make my list of schools and I'd like to know how much they HELP an application. A friend of mine who is at a tip-top program told me that if I apply to more than 15 programs with my stats I am "throwing my money away". I do not believe her.

I have 4 publications out, two first author (wrote the grants...all the way to the end product). More (1 first author, 1 co-first, one probable low authorship) are in press, so likely out-ish??? by the time apps go in. All in decent journals, best journals are PNAS and PLOS Med.

So, what will this do to my app? (numbers are excellent in most/all categories)

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[CattleBruiser]

What are your numbers? Your research is way above average if you have that many papers. And you say your numbers are excellent...maybe your friend meant you are an exceptional candidate and don't need to apply to more than 15 programs to get in somewhere?

edit: and yes it will help you a lot. More than it would help an MD-only app.

 

[Coclean]

Yeah, I am pretty sure that is what my friend was trying to say. I just can't be sure you know.

My GPA is above 3.8 across the board (but my transcript is not perfect.....basically 4.0 with 2 slips at a very high ranking school). My MCAT is complicated, but still in the "OK" range and I might retake (for the score that is not expired there was a sudden death just before I took it among some other things, but still OK). But this is not really what I am asking. My numbers are my numbers and at a lot/most schools they won't eliminate me from being interviewed probably.

But I want to know is how many places up the stack will my research pull me? There will be people with stronger numbers than me. That's inevitable...mine are probably good enough, but there are always better.

My research though.....I know that is good....so how far up, and at what point is the "excellent" star going to help me? When they are evaluating if my numbers are good enough or after I get past secondaries/to the interview.

There may be no answer, but I'm pretty earnest about everything, so I'm trying to be as informed as possible in making my list of schools to apply to. I'm still going to gamble at the "rank" schools that match my research interest.....but I just need to fill comfortable taking 10 or so lower picks of the list if possible. Thanks.

 

[CattleBruiser]

If I were you and actually we are very much alike in terms of numbers, I would still apply broadly. This cycle some of the lower "ranked" places rejected me almost instantly, yet I got interviews from several of the research powerhouses (but also rejections). I have to say my research was probably most responsible for my success because at this level pretty much every one has great stats. That said my research was not nearly as much as you have, but still above average among applicants I met and talked to. Most do not have publications, some had 1. Again your research will catch people's eye and get you looks. How much will it help? Can't say exactly...I don't think anyone can, but it will help significantly esp. at research powerhouse places. Forget the numbers game. After you pass a certain point, it's all the same and your ECs/research start to matter more. As long as your MCAT isn't lower 30s, I'd say you're in good shape although after applying I can honestly say even God cannot predict how well someone will do. So with that said...

...although your friend's comments are flattering I would still play it safe and apply broadly enough to make yourself feel safe. That said, apply broadly but do not apply to anywhere you are not interested in/wouldn't be happy attending.

Add-on: your research will help both in screening your app to get an interview, and if you can speak/present your research very well it will help you even more during interviews. When all the numbers look the same they will look at your research and be interested in talking to you.

 

[bd4727]

If you have a first author PNAS paper, it will help you out tremendously to make up for an otherwise average MCAT. If you have a very low MCAT for MSTPs (<29) then it will help you but you may have to do a bit of explaining about your MCAT.

Overall, you sound like a great candidate and assuming your MCAT is somewhere within 1SD of the average MSTP acceptance, then you should not have a problem getting mutliple acceptances. You would still be wise to apply to a handful of tip top places, a few middle tier and 1 or 2 "lower tier" MSTPs just because of the inevitable variability in the process. But overall, you should feel very confident-- there are many people who are granted a PhD from top schools without such impressive publication record....

 

[Coclean]

My MCAT is not 1SD below the average MudPhud acceptance, but death be hanged….I’m going to retake anyways. I've never scored as low on a practice test as I did on the actual test this time, so meh. This is what I want in life, so what are a few more months of studying to be sure I present who I am (I'll do great MS1 as a consequence, right?....don't contradict, I'm building myself up.)

First author PNAS is not out yet. It is co-first author too (with a senior scientist, but my name is on the list first with those little asterisks), it was reviewed favorably, but not yet accepted as per the status page this morning. PLOS MED was accepted yesterday. Woot.

What annoys me is the game of it all. But, that is the nature of life.

I’ll apply broadly, no matter if it is a waste of money/time. Luckily some of the schools that I really like are not super highly ranked…..unfortunately probably the “best” in my research field ARE very highly ranked. I doubt that a couple thousand dollars is one of those things I would look back and truly regret in life.


Thanks for the input. Its all speculation in the end anyways, no? Good luck making acceptance choices ya’ll

 

[Neuronix]

Dude chill. You have a solid app. Really, if you don't get in I'll be surprised. 15 programs sounds reasonable, maybe 20 if you're really paranoid. Apply to a range obviously, not just the top 15 places.

(for anyone who is confused, I know his MCAT score from PM. I won't share for privacy purposes, but it's not terrible.)

 

[Coclean]

She.
I'm a naturally un-chill person. It's something I work on.

 

[soundnin]

You would still be wise to apply to a handful of tip top places, a few middle tier and 1 or 2 "lower tier" MSTPs just because of the inevitable variability in the process.

not to hijack the thread, as i think the OP can benefit from this info as well, but i'm applying this cycle with more impressive research than stats too (even lower numbers than the OP). i feel like all mstp's and fully funded md/phd that aren't mstp are pretty competitive and there isn't as clear a differentiation between "tip top" to "lower tier" schools. would anyone be able to elaborate on this for me?

 

[bd4727]

not to hijack the thread, as i think the OP can benefit from this info as well, but i'm applying this cycle with more impressive research than stats too (even lower numbers than the OP). i feel like all mstp's and fully funded md/phd that aren't mstp are pretty competitive and there isn't as clear a differentiation between "tip top" to "lower tier" schools. would anyone be able to elaborate on this for me?

I agree with you that in practice there isn't a difference in what they will deliver once you are there (for the most part), but FWIW, it is much harder to get into Harvard and Cornell MSTP than it is Case Western, Vandy, Oregon, Iowa, etc (tried to just pick random places off the top of my head). All of these places are great and I don't think going to one over the other will have a significant effect on a persons career-- by this point it is more the person than the school that will dictate that, IMO-- but some are just harder to get into and that is the reality.

So, don't just apply to Harvard, Cornell and Stanford if you want to mitigate the risk of not getting accepted anywhere.

 

[kevinlu]

Hard to predict how things will go. Your research (especially the pair of great first-author publications) is going to open the doors for you much more than your MCAT score will. Trust me on this one. In fact, your research is going to help you get through those doors and into the "house"...which is definitely not something your MCAT will do.

MCATs are something programs use to screen out applicants.
Publications/research is what they use to decide who makes it into the accepted pool.

I would not recommend applying to more than 15 places. I applied to 22 (simply because I did not know where I stood amongst applicants) and interviewed at 16. It was way too much. The last 4 or so I couldn't get into it...I just wanted them to be over. I did myself and the programs a disservice.