How much does a FM doctor make in Midwest

[qwerty89]

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Dallas is great place to live IMO.

That home in Flower Mound is beautiful but a little pricey...

Well I guess this is why people hate Californians moving into their neighborhoods. Because I would come from CA thinking that house is amazing and cheap AF and offer to pay cash for it.

Also I only used 3 minutes on Redfin. I'm sure there are better deals.

 

[deleted1005514]

What size houses are y’all looking at? I’m thinking $300k max, and it had better come with a significant chunk of land. I wouldn’t want to have to clean and maintenance a huge $1 mil house!

 

[KnuxNole]

I second the PNW. Most beautiful nature, no real winter in most of OR and WA, relatively very cheap to have a house on the fringes of a city like Portland.

I think a lot of the coastal love comes from lack of exposure. My friends who went to college in LA/SF/San Diego stayed there to work. My classmates who grew up and went to college all in the big New England metros, same thing, they all want to match Boston and NYC and Philly.

If they'd spent a few years somewhere like Durham, Nashville, Atlanta, Austin, St Louis, Minneapolis, etc I think a lot of them would have been a lot more flexible about it. They talk about the Midwest and South like wastelands devoid of yuppies or things for yuppies to do. Really you can find all the usual entertainment in any cities that big, and when you drive a short while away from the city centers, you'll get 5x as much house per dollar.

*shudders* yuppies...😛

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

As a personal finance question, how expensive of a home could an FM reasonably afford after they finished paying off all of their loans?

The general rule is 2X income

 

[qwerty89]

Now the people who bought homes in CA a long time ago are killing it. Prop 13 limited property tax increases so they are paying pennies on the dollar.

Case in point: 204 S Carmelina Ave, Los Angeles, CA - 2 beds/2 baths

Bought in 1979 for $269,000 which corresponds to $956,376.52 in 2020 dollars.

But today its valued at 2.65 million...

Basically lived there for free for 40 years even after maintenance, HOA and paid property taxes.

Background on Prop 13:

"One Percent Rate Cap. Proposition 13 capped, with limited exceptions, ad valorem property tax rates at one percent of full cash value at the time of acquisition. Prior to Proposition 13, local jurisdictions independently established their tax rates and the total property tax rate was the composite of the individual rates, with few limitations.

"Reassessment Upon Change of Ownership. Proposition 13 replaced the practice of annually reassessing property at market value with a system based on cost at acquisition. Prior to Proposition 13, if homes in a neighborhood sold for higher prices, neighboring properties might have been reassessed based on the newly increased area values. Under Prop. 13, the property is assessed for tax purposes only when it changes ownership. As long as the property is not sold, future increases in assessed value are limited to an annual inflation factor of no more than 2%.

Therefore taking the above house as an example. If you assume the taxable value of the home increased by max 2% per year then after 40 years the home is being taxed as if it is worth only $582,316...*math may be incorrect*

Homeowner boomers are making a killing out in CA.

 

[efle]

Now the people who bought homes in CA a long time ago are killing it. Prop 13 limited property tax increases so they are paying pennies on the dollar.

Case in point: 204 S Carmelina Ave, Los Angeles, CA - 2 beds/2 baths

Bought in 1979 for $269,000 which corresponds to $956,376.52 in 2020 dollars.

But today its valued at 2.65 million...

Basically lived there for free for 40 years even after maintenance, HOA and paid property taxes.

Background on Prop 13:

"One Percent Rate Cap. Proposition 13 capped, with limited exceptions, ad valorem property tax rates at one percent of full cash value at the time of acquisition. Prior to Proposition 13, local jurisdictions independently established their tax rates and the total property tax rate was the composite of the individual rates, with few limitations.

"Reassessment Upon Change of Ownership. Proposition 13 replaced the practice of annually reassessing property at market value with a system based on cost at acquisition. Prior to Proposition 13, if homes in a neighborhood sold for higher prices, neighboring properties might have been reassessed based on the newly increased area values. Under Prop. 13, the property is assessed for tax purposes only when it changes ownership. As long as the property is not sold, future increases in assessed value are limited to an annual inflation factor of no more than 2%.

Therefore taking the above house as an example. If you assume the taxable value of the home increased by max 2% per year then after 40 years the home is being taxed as if it is worth only $582,316...*math may be incorrect*

Homeowner boomers are making a killing out in CA.

This is correct. It was considered wrong to tax retiree's houses out from under them, very few had the ability to pay real property taxes for 2mil homes. But if you were a yuppie that picked the right area code in the 90s, your house tripled in value while you paid nothing more

 

[JoaoMoutinho]

I could literally drink fry sauce

You and me both. Every time I'm in that neck of the woods, one of my first orders of business is a pastrami burger with a healthy dose of fry sauce on the side. Unfortunately, I don't get the impression that there are tons of physician scientist jobs out there.

 

[RangerBob]

This is correct. It was considered wrong to tax retiree's houses out from under them, very few had the ability to pay real property taxes for 2mil homes. But if you were a yuppie that picked the right area code in the 90s, your house tripled in value while you paid nothing more

Seattle has this issue now. Lots of retirees and others living in fixed income who are seeing their property taxes go way up. Same thing happened in CA which led to prop 13.

Hopefully Seattle comes up with a better idea. I live where I live, but it does upset me when my neighbor across the street in a bigger home pays about 1/10 the taxes I do. And benefits from a state pension and all the other stuff the boomers had great (like cheap college).

Then again, my dad paid for my undergrad (as did are most boomers for their kids) and I had a great childhood, so maybe me and the other millennials actually have it better. Who knows.

Life is short and unfair. Live where you’re happy. At the end of the day, if you’re basing your decision on where to live primarily around the cost, you might find more happiness in life if you focus less on money.

 

[Modstopizdy]

Middle aged lifestyle is having fresh nature and mountains to hike in, lakes to fish, and plenty of wood to make bonfires? I'll be middle aged forever then.

Your travel lifestyle can be done in any part of the country and frankly it's more cost effective doing it in the midwest due to low living expenses.

Dude, what mountains are you referring to, lmao? The lack of nature is precisely why I despise the midwest. It is the worst region in the country for the outdoors lifestyle by far. A bunch of flat, barren terrain infested by commercial farming operations as far as the eye can see. Hardly any trees to speak of aside from some fragmented woods where you are never more than a mile or two from the nearest road. Anytime you want to have a legitimate hiking or camping excursion you gotta go hit up the airport and leave the Midwest for greener pastures.

The coasts have beaches and mountains and forests, the Southwest has deserts and mountains, the mountain states are pretty self explanatory. The only reason to want to live in the Midwest as far as I am concerned is if you can significantly increase your salary by doing so. Otherwise, you get the worst of both worlds: subpar cities and literal bottom of the barrel landscapes.

 

[efle]

Dude, what mountains are you referring to, lmao? The lack of nature is precisely why I despise the midwest. It is the worst region in the country for the outdoors lifestyle by far. A bunch of flat, barren terrain infested by commercial farming operations as far as the eye can see. Hardly any trees to speak of aside from some fragmented woods where you are never more than a mile or two from the nearest road. Anytime you want to have a legitimate hiking or camping excursion you gotta go hit up the airport and leave the Midwest for greener pastures.

The coasts have beaches and mountains and forests, the Southwest has deserts and mountains, the mountain states are pretty self explanatory. The only reason to want to live in the Midwest as far as I am concerned is if you can significantly increase your salary by doing so. Otherwise, you get the worst of both worlds: subpar cities and literal bottom of the barrel landscapes.

There's lots of lakes and good ways to entertain oneself with a lake

 

[Modstopizdy]

There's lots of lakes and good ways to entertain oneself with a lake

Hence the "McMansion by a lake" post I replied to that started this whole chain of argument. There are better ways to set up your life than by centralizing it around the oversized lakefront residence. Midwestern lakes are cool in comparison to the alternatives the Midwest has to offer: rolling farmland. However, they're pretty lame compared to what the rest of the country has to offer. You'd have to pay me a lot more money to convince me to live in Ohio over Washington State as just one example, particularly as the latter has no state income tax.

 

[Mass Effect]

At the end of the day, if you’re basing your decision on where to live primarily around the cost, you might find more happiness in life if you focus less on money

Disagree. Where you live has to be a place you can afford. If you're living in a high COL area you can't afford because "omg, the city and omg, a mansion!" life is not going to be fun for you. There's this belief that doctors can live anywhere they like, but that isn't true for every doctor. Some have several kids they're paying for private schooling or they're saving up for college funds and maybe even wedding funds. Some have exes they're paying alimony to. Some are older and saving aggressively because they have nothing for retirement or they're trying to pay off their student loans. Some leave med school and residency with significant credit card debt. The answer to all that live in a city you can afford, not live wherever you want and don't focus on money.

 

[RangerBob]

Dude, what mountains are you referring to, lmao? The lack of nature is precisely why I despise the midwest. It is the worst region in the country for the outdoors lifestyle by far. A bunch of flat, barren terrain infested by commercial farming operations as far as the eye can see. Hardly any trees to speak of aside from some fragmented woods where you are never more than a mile or two from the nearest road. Anytime you want to have a legitimate hiking or camping excursion you gotta go hit up the airport and leave the Midwest for greener pastures.

The coasts have beaches and mountains and forests, the Southwest has deserts and mountains, the mountain states are pretty self explanatory. The only reason to want to live in the Midwest as far as I am concerned is if you can significantly increase your salary by doing so. Otherwise, you get the worst of both worlds: subpar cities and literal bottom of the barrel landscapes.

I felt the same when I first lived in the Midwest. The "state parks" were nothing compared to Yosemite and the parks of the Coastal/Mountain west. Then I moved closer to the Great Lakes and visited the UP and northwoods of Minnesota. They don't have the elevation of the Sierras/Rockies, but they're every bit as beautiful (and more in many ways).

 

[efle]

I'll also put out there that there's plenty of hobbies not based on mountains/hiking...

 

[Splenda88]

The general rule is 2X income

You must onw a mansion in SC since your spouse is also a doc... (2X income!)
.

 

[RangerBob]

Disagree. Where you live has to be a place you can afford. If you're living in a high COL area you can't afford because "omg, the city and omg, a mansion!" life is not going to be fun for you. There's this belief that doctors can live anywhere they like, but that isn't true for every doctor. Some have several kids they're paying for private schooling or they're saving up for college funds and maybe even wedding funds. Some have exes they're paying alimony to. Some are older and saving aggressively because they have nothing for retirement or they're trying to pay off their student loans. Some leave med school and residency with significant credit card debt. The answer to all that live in a city you can afford, not live wherever you want and don't focus on money.

Obviously there's a limit as money is finate, but overall I stand behind my statement. There are few cities a physician can't afford. Life is about more than money. I'm not saying it doesn't matter, but what matters more is prioritizing the important things. We wanted to have our son grow up with family, so we chose to move to a high COL area. We're buying an average home. We're sending our son to public school (they're all good here). We had a cheap wedding. And most important is I plan to keep my wife. We do have a ton of student loans--we made a mistake there. Can't get everything right.

I've been happy with all our decisions so far.

Obviously if you're someone who wants to retire as early as possible and keep as many dollars you make as possible, then you'd be grumpy living in a high tax/high COL place like CA. And it's fine for people to be like that if that's what matters to them. But I know when I'm old and dying, I'm not going to look back and say "I wish I lived in __ so that I could've paid less taxes and had a bigger home." I'll care more that I have the relationship with my son and family that I wanted. If they were in Ohio we'd have moved there, but they chose a more expensive area in CA. Oh well. It's just money.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

You must onw a mansion in SC since your spouse is also a doc... (2X income!)
.

Not quite (my wife is part time so 1.5X income). But our kids are in private school and we vacation about once/quarter so it balances out.

 

[deleted804295]

don’t worry about the cost unless your taking out more than 60k/year.

most residents will go into REPAYE plan after graduating which means half of the accrued interest during residency is paid by federal government.

280k in loans means 1400/month in interest.
1400/month x 36 = 50,400 and still at 280k in loans

saving 1400/month x36 in a high interest savings account with 1.8% interest = $52k With loan growing to $305k with half interest paid by government. Then $305-52= $253k plus you’ll have an emergency fund for any catastrophic event during residency. Go into REPAYE, pay minimums, then pay back after residency.

Is there a reason why residents should only pay minimums? if they can afford to pay more ie. If spouse is willing to pay for living expenses or if living with parents would it make more sense to pay more than minimum?

 

[deleted804295]

I used to live in the way out suburbs of St Louis. It was good to settle down in but not great for a single person.

Not a big nightlife or bar scene.

Not every single person is into nightlife/bar scenes. It gets boring and redundant after the first time.

 

[deleted804295]

Lmao my man, you cannot get a decent family home for 3500/mo in the expensive parts of CA

Zillow says a 1500 square foot 3bedroom in my area code is more than double that

You're probably not in one of the parts of the state that are described as "too expensive for a primary care doctor"

So what's your secret? How are you living there?

 

[deleted804295]

Now the people who bought homes in CA a long time ago are killing it. Prop 13 limited property tax increases so they are paying pennies on the dollar.

Case in point: 204 S Carmelina Ave, Los Angeles, CA - 2 beds/2 baths

Bought in 1979 for $269,000 which corresponds to $956,376.52 in 2020 dollars.

But today its valued at 2.65 million...

Basically lived there for free for 40 years even after maintenance, HOA and paid property taxes.

Background on Prop 13:

"One Percent Rate Cap. Proposition 13 capped, with limited exceptions, ad valorem property tax rates at one percent of full cash value at the time of acquisition. Prior to Proposition 13, local jurisdictions independently established their tax rates and the total property tax rate was the composite of the individual rates, with few limitations.

"Reassessment Upon Change of Ownership. Proposition 13 replaced the practice of annually reassessing property at market value with a system based on cost at acquisition. Prior to Proposition 13, if homes in a neighborhood sold for higher prices, neighboring properties might have been reassessed based on the newly increased area values. Under Prop. 13, the property is assessed for tax purposes only when it changes ownership. As long as the property is not sold, future increases in assessed value are limited to an annual inflation factor of no more than 2%.

Therefore taking the above house as an example. If you assume the taxable value of the home increased by max 2% per year then after 40 years the home is being taxed as if it is worth only $582,316...*math may be incorrect*

Homeowner boomers are making a killing out in CA.

So the smart move for millenials would be to purchase in the next Cali not to spill all their cash and their future savings in a garbage area of LA.

But millennials being millenials want to spend all their money in ugly parts of the country to experience a night life.

 

[efle]

So what's your secret? How are you living there?

Sheltering-in-place at my significant other's. My rent back at school is ~$650/mo for a room in a 4bed house (not in CA)

 

[deleted804295]

Sheltering-in-place at my significant other's. My rent back at school is ~$650/mo for a room in a 4bed house (not in CA)

So your SO is rich?

 

[ciestar]

As long as my husband has his job and (luckily) my residency will be close by, we’re staying put. We nicely have the option to head into the city for a “night life” but have a buffer otherwise.

I nightlife like 4x/year lol

 

[deleted804295]

As long as my husband has his job and (luckily) my residency will be close by, we’re staying put. We nicely have the option to head into the city for a “night life” but have a buffer otherwise.

I nightlife like 4x/year lol

Congrats on getting married!

 

[efle]

So your SO is rich?

They work at one of the silicon valley tech giants making around what a primary care doc makes here, coincidentally. And have a specialist physician father who paid for all their schooling, so the 30k is actually no sweat at all.

But a house here would be impossible

 

[Chromium Surfer]

don’t worry about the cost unless your taking out more than 60k/year.

most residents will go into REPAYE plan after graduating which means half of the accrued interest during residency is paid by federal government.

280k in loans means 1400/month in interest.
1400/month x 36 = 50,400 and still at 280k in loans

saving 1400/month x36 in a high interest savings account with 1.8% interest = $52k With loan growing to $305k with half interest paid by government. Then $305-52= $253k plus you’ll have an emergency fund for any catastrophic event during residency. Go into REPAYE, pay minimums, then pay back after residency.

This is a solid plan! What would you say to someone who has to take out 75k in loans per year and will graduate with a little over 300k?

 

[RangerBob]

Sheltering-in-place at my significant other's. My rent back at school is ~$650/mo for a room in a 4bed house (not in CA)

I didn't think I was that old--that's what I used to pay for a room in a semi-historical home in Berkeley. Great little room with space for a bed, small desk, dresser, and my body. Nothing else. I loved it though. The floor was great--a ball would roll to the other side. Not very encouraging in a seismically active area, but it was just settling of the floor due to a huge stone fireplace--the frame itself was still plumb and level somehow...

No parking though. The street sweeping tickets were a real pain. I forgot to move my car one day and got a ticket. So I moved my car to the other side of the street to avoid getting another ticket the rest of the day. Unfortunately that side of the street had street sweeping the following day, so I got another ticket the following morning.

 

[RangerBob]

This is a solid plan! What would you say to someone who has to take out 75k in loans per year and will graduate with a little over 300k?

Cry.

Seriously, it's a lot of money, but you'll be alright. I borrowed the same, maybe a bit more. But I'd encourage you to borrow as little as you can to be reasonably comfortable. Consider a roomate, renting a room in a house with other grad/professional students (undergrads are too noisy), drive a beater car, don't go overboard on going out, etc.

Paying additional money towards your loans in residency is a good idea, as most residents get paid plenty to have money left over after living expenses (unless you live in SF or NYC). However, if you think you might go for PSLF, it makes no sense to pay above the minimum payment.

 

[Chromium Surfer]

Cry.

Seriously, it's a lot of money, but you'll be alright. I borrowed the same, maybe a bit more. But I'd encourage you to borrow as little as you can to be reasonably comfortable. Consider a roomate, renting a room in a house with other grad/professional students (undergrads are too noisy), drive a beater car, don't go overboard on going out, etc.

Paying additional money towards your loans in residency is a good idea, as most residents get paid plenty to have money left over after living expenses (unless you live in SF or NYC). However, if you think you might go for PSLF, it makes no sense to pay above the minimum payment.

Thanks for the feedback! I don’t have any loans from undergrad and my car is relatively new (2016) but I paid it off with cash since I was the third owner! I’m definitely considering at least one roommate if not multiple! I’m fairly cheap so the main thing that’s driving us out the cost is the tuition ( $60k)

PLSF sounds nice but I feel like depending on whose in office that might be nixed. So I was assuming that I would have to pay for it all by myself. In your opinion is REPAYE still a good option in my situation?

 

[libertyyne]

~40% of Americans live within counties directly on the shoreline, These counties constitute less than 10% of the American land mass.


There are number of driving factors for people to continue to live in these places and the continued population growth of these areas. These are not limited to economic opportunity, family ties, cultural ties (large immigrant populations). Or other quality of life issues.

Contrary to what the Chicago school of economics and adam smith may say, many decisions people make are not 100% rational in terms of economic cost of living and not everyone tries to maximize ROI of their life. Many other considerations are incorporated into decisions. People in some of the areas I have lived in are perfectly comfortable spending 40-50% of their income on housing.

A lot of people who are willing to move away for opportunity will try to come back to these areas after they have kids, or to be closer to family and friends or for spousal opportunities. Some of these places also have great public schools, or QOL that people are used to in terms of temperate climate or cultural activities, or even infrastructure.

I dont think there is anything wrong with living in the midwest , I currently do , but being someone who lived on the east coast, I do think about moving back there once training is done because of some of the things i have mentioned. Will it be a an expensive economic decision, Absolutely, will the added expenses be worth it to me personally? Absolutely.

 

[RangerBob]

Thanks for the feedback! I don’t have any loans from undergrad and my car is relatively new (2016) but I paid it off with cash since I was the third owner! I’m definitely considering at least one roommate if not multiple! I’m fairly cheap so the main thing that’s driving us out the cost is the tuition ( $60k)

PLSF sounds nice but I feel like depending on whose in office that might be nixed. So I was assuming that I would have to pay for it all by myself. In your opinion is REPAYE still a good option in my situation?

REPAYE is great-it’s what I’m on. It effectively halved your interest rate (almost) during residency unless you have a high earning spouse. Don’t aim for REPAYE forgiveness though-it’s 25 years and currently taxable. REPAYE will also mean your payments during residency will be PSLF-eligible, should the program stick around and you end up getting an attending job that’s eligible.

By the time you graduate I think the forgiveness plans (including PSLF and PAYE/REPAYE/IBR) will possibly be all sorted out. They could of course change again...

 

[IntheClouds4ever]

Is there a reason why residents should only pay minimums? if they can afford to pay more ie. If spouse is willing to pay for living expenses or if living with parents would it make more sense to pay more than minimum?

I wouldn’t be paying anything extra until after residency when you can truly make headway on it. You won’t make any dent in the principal until you are paying more than $1400/month based on my previous example. Even then you are foregoing free money provided by Uncle Sam to go towards staving off interest. Just put the money into a interest earning account (high interest online savings, CDs, or MMA) to make a little money on it and do a lump sum payment after residency then refinance to lower interest rate. Residency is hard and you don’t want to worry about finances.. a nice safety net of tens of thousands will be great for any major unexpected life events..

 

[Postictal Raiden]

REPAYE is great-it’s what I’m on. It effectively halved your interest rate (almost) during residency unless you have a high earning spouse. Don’t aim for REPAYE forgiveness though-it’s 25 years and currently taxable. REPAYE will also mean your payments during residency will be PSLF-eligible, should the program stick around and you end up getting an attending job that’s eligible.

By the time you graduate I think the forgiveness plans (including PSLF and PAYE/REPAYE/IBR) will possibly be all sorted out. They could of course change again...

What do you envision happening after making payments for 25 years? They tell you "too bad" and still hold you responsible for the remaining balance (which could very well be as high as the principle amount if not more if your calculated payments barely covered the interests)?

 

[libertyyne]

What do you envision happening after making payments for 25 years? They tell you "too bad" and still hold you responsible for the remaining balance (which could very well be as high as the principle amount if not more if your calculated payments barely covered the interests)?

i mean, you could also drop dead during that time, win the lottery, or inflation could make the balance the equivalent of a cheap car.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

i mean, you could also drop dead during that time, win the lottery, or inflation could make the balance the equivalent of a cheap car.

Counting on this one. The longer we are in lockdown, the more likely this will happen

 

[Modstopizdy]

Counting on this one. The longer we are in lockdown, the more likely this will happen

lol...any scenario where the current lockdown results in inflation severe enough to do away with the average medical school debt burden implies an economic and social cataclysm the likes of which this country has never seen. You'd be rather foolish to hope for such an outcome, as the "debt relief" you'd gain from it would surely not outweigh the subsequent loss of living standards resulting from the third-worldization of the United States. The best we can hope for is that despite the Fed's printing presses going all out, the dollar continues to retain purchasing power long enough for our generation to accumulate hard assets.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

lol...any scenario where the current lockdown results in inflation severe enough to do away with the average medical school debt burden implies an economic and social cataclysm the likes of which this country has never seen. You'd be rather foolish to hope for such an outcome, as the "debt relief" you'd gain from it would surely not outweigh the subsequent loss of living standards resulting from the third-worldization of the United States. The best we can hope for is that despite the Fed's printing presses going all out, the dollar continues to retain purchasing power long enough for our generation to accumulate hard assets.

Relax. I was half serious when I made that comment above. I fully comprehend the implications of such monetary value depreciation.

The feds just printed $2.3T and there's a plan for printing another 2T. inflation and economic recession is inevitable. The dollar is going to lose its purchasing power. Debts will be less of a value, but so our salaries. It's a terrible situation all around.

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

After literally being jerked from place to place my entire life based on my parents' jobs, and then my own educational path (literally lived in 12 quite disparate places), the prospect of *choosing* where I want to live is wild 😱

I went to college in NYC and it was fantastic, but I think if you're not from there, it's a place that loses its shine after a few years. None of my transplant friends plan on staying long. On the flip side, my program is in a rust belt city that I am at best, apathetic to. There are really limited dating options for me and there's nothing to do - no real cultural venues, no good food, and its covered by snow most of the time. Need to find that balance, I guess.

 

[Sosaveli]

That is the exact opposite of what I see on SDN haha everyone wants to get to the coasts on here and anywhere in the midwest not named Chicago is like poison to match lists and such according to the people on here.

Forreal, I grew up in the midwest so I don't personally see the appeal of living in a heavily congested urban environment (CA, NY) beyond my life as a bachelor. Can't imagine paying that much in state taxes as an attending either.

 

[Sosaveli]

The thing is it doesn't have to be either/or. You can get the advantages of CA in other states that aren't nearly as expensive but still on the coasts. Parts of GA are beautiful and you have beaches and mountains within the state. Same with SC. If you're willing to put up with the seasons (and mild winters relative to midwest), NC and VA are amazing.

That also goes for those favoring the midwest due to prices and fresh nature. There are places on the coasts that give you plenty of nature and as rural or urban a lifestyle as you like (not like NYC or LA, but there's no shortage of dining and nightlife options). Some of my best summers were spent on the beaches, lakes, and mountains in some village in Maine where it was insanely cheap to live and plenty of outdoor activities. A few hours away was Portland that was very similar to some of the midwestern cities I lived in and comparable in price. I think depending on what you want, you can find a city to offer it almost anywhere in the country.

Personally as someone living the urban lifestyle right now, I can't wait to retreat to a smaller town. I haven't decided if that will be some place in the midwest (maybe Milwaukee?) or the east (maybe Maine?) or the south (maybe NC or SC?). I just can't stand the pollution, the crowds, the rush, rush, rush, the commute to...anywhere, the prices both in homes and in groceries, and the noise that's unbelievably annoying. Give me the sweet sounds of nature, hiking trails, a huge yet cozy home with a large deck to entertain, a 5-minute commute to work, and a large paycheck to boot and I'll be happy.

When you mentioned noise all I could think about was my apartment in UG which people loved to drive by on their loud ass motorcycles at 3 AM.

 

[jambro]

Relax. I was half serious when I made that comment above. I fully comprehend the implications of such monetary value depreciation.

The feds just printed $2.3T and there's a plan for printing another 2T. inflation and economic recession is inevitable. The dollar is going to lose its purchasing power. Debts will be less of a value, but so our salaries. It's a terrible situation all around.

An extra 4.3 trillion printed into an economy that has grinded to a halt will not necessarily be inflationary... think about it, were we worrying about inflation when the economy was running? If not, then by printing this money we're just getting our monetary supply back to "normal"

 

[Ttubule]

Interesting to read everyone’s thoughts on location vs COL....

I was SoCal or bust pretty much my entire life. Spent a lot of time in LA in undergrad and before med school, and went into the residency application process with every intention of getting out there for residency. Well, ended up matching at my first choice which is in an area of the Midwest with very low COL. I’ve got to say, having just put an offer in on a very nice larger home in a super desirable neighborhood for $250k I’m having a tough time remembering why I spent so long thinking I’d be happy living in poverty as long as I was in Los Angeles. To each their own, of course, but when it all becomes “real” there’s a lot to be said for the Midwest.

 

[deleted804295]

After literally being jerked from place to place my entire life based on my parents' jobs, and then my own educational path (literally lived in 12 quite disparate places), the prospect of *choosing* where I want to live is wild 😱

I went to college in NYC and it was fantastic, but I think if you're not from there, it's a place that loses its shine after a few years. None of my transplant friends plan on staying long. On the flip side, my program is in a rust belt city that I am at best, apathetic to. There are really limited dating options for me and there's nothing to do - no real cultural venues, no good food, and its covered by snow most of the time. Need to find that balance, I guess.

Rust belt? Isn't that like the bible belt? Plenty of dating options. You could find a cute southern belle at church

 

[efle]

Interesting to read everyone’s thoughts on location vs COL....

I was SoCal or bust pretty much my entire life. Spent a lot of time in LA in undergrad and before med school, and went into the residency application process with every intention of getting out there for residency. Well, ended up matching at my first choice which is in an area of the Midwest with very low COL. I’ve got to say, having just put an offer in on a very nice larger home in a super desirable neighborhood for $250k I’m having a tough time remembering why I spent so long thinking I’d be happy living in poverty as long as I was in Los Angeles. To each their own, of course, but when it all becomes “real” there’s a lot to be said for the Midwest.

Seconded. Silicon valley is great but when you think what $3000/month in mortgage or rent can get for you in the Midwest...makes it extremely hard to be happy in your cramped little studio.

 

[Mass Effect]

Rust belt? Isn't that like the bible belt? Plenty of dating options. You could find a cute southern belle at church

No, it isn't the Bible belt. The rust belt refers to upper midwest and northern U.S. Think PA, OH, MI, WI.

 

[Captain_Falcon]

No, it isn't the Bible belt. The rust belt refers to upper midwest and northern U.S. Think PA, OH, MI, WI.

So the dating options are then Quakers, Buckeyes, Chevrolets, and Cheese Curds. Can't say there's a lack of variety there

 

[qwerty89]

Obviously there's a limit as money is finate, but overall I stand behind my statement. There are few cities a physician can't afford. Life is about more than money. I'm not saying it doesn't matter, but what matters more is prioritizing the important things. We wanted to have our son grow up with family, so we chose to move to a high COL area. We're buying an average home. We're sending our son to public school (they're all good here). We had a cheap wedding. And most important is I plan to keep my wife. We do have a ton of student loans--we made a mistake there. Can't get everything right.

I've been happy with all our decisions so far.

Obviously if you're someone who wants to retire as early as possible and keep as many dollars you make as possible, then you'd be grumpy living in a high tax/high COL place like CA. And it's fine for people to be like that if that's what matters to them. But I know when I'm old and dying, I'm not going to look back and say "I wish I lived in __ so that I could've paid less taxes and had a bigger home." I'll care more that I have the relationship with my son and family that I wanted. If they were in Ohio we'd have moved there, but they chose a more expensive area in CA. Oh well. It's just money.

Bingo. That's why despite my earlier crap talking about California...

...I'm moving back.

Also helps that I'm in a higher paid specialty.

If I was interested in academic peds it would be a different story...
Case in point: the peds program director at UCLA makes $180k while the diagnostic radiology program director makes $526k, the urologic oncology director there makes $818k.

Source. Just google the names and enter them in for 2018.

 

[deleted804295]

Bingo. That's why despite my earlier crap talking about California...

...I'm moving back.

Also helps that I'm in a higher paid specialty.

If I was interested in academic peds it would be a different story...
Case in point: the peds program director at UCLA makes $180k while the diagnostic radiology program director makes $526k, the urologic oncology director there makes $818k.

Source. Just google the names and enter them in for 2018.

$180k at UCLA? That's evi.

 

[qwerty89]

$180k at UCLA? That's evi.

It is. Just like one of the other posters said not everybody can live comfortably in CA.

Big difference between a doc who graduates with 300-500k in med school debt and goes into academic peds and is the primary breadwinner for the family vs another doc who does ortho and marries a dermatologist...

In many other places in the country that's the difference between a nice 2500-3000sq ft house and good pubic schools and a nice Camry XLE vs a massive 6+BR 6000sq ft McMansion, fancy private school, and fancy BMW/Mercedes. There is a difference but its not cataclysmic. You will have a nice life even with the peds salary.

On the other hand in parts of coastal CA that's seriously the difference between owning a home and not owning a home.

At that point I don't care how much family you have in CA. It's just not worth it.