How much is too much for rent?

[Ronin786]

So I've been researching places to rent and I can't seem to get to a decision as far as what's too much for rent.

Take home salary is 2600 a month. I've read online that it shouldn't exceed 30% of monthly salary, but that seems very low for the area near my residency. I'm basically having trouble budgeting the rest of expenses, so I'd appreciate any insight as far as what some residents make do with rent.

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[Ronin786]

So it turns out I had miscalculated and take home pay is 3000 and not the 2600 I had previously thought. That makes things much easier

I'd still love to see what some folks are paying for rent and how they're budgeting. Search only seemed to show up the rent vs. buy question that always pops up, but I apologize if this is a duplicate.

 

[VenusinFurs]

I live in a town with really cheap rent. I have a lovely capacious two bedroom apt for $750/mo.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

So I've been researching places to rent and I can't seem to get to a decision as far as what's too much for rent.

Take home salary is 2600 a month. I've read online that it shouldn't exceed 30% of monthly salary, but that seems very low for the area near my residency. I'm basically having trouble budgeting the rest of expenses, so I'd appreciate any insight as far as what some residents make do with rent.

It all depends on (a) the local market and (b) what you want from a home.

I've found that residents and med students generally want a higher quality of living than what their current income would provide. So a lot of people go way over that "30%" guideline. Also, housing close to major universities/hospitals tends to command its own special premium so residents are a captive market for landlords.

If you live in a reasonable market, and are okay with a fairly bare bones place, you can probably manage something in the 30% range. My first three years I lived in a place that was closer to 40-50% of my take-home, but it was somewhere I really liked and I was okay with it. Then I moved in with my girlfriend and now I spend less than 20% (since we obviously split the rent, and my salary has gone up).

 

[colbgw02]

Considering that resident salary is pretty flat nationwide, it's pretty difficult to use that 30% rule without knowing what part of the country we're talking about here. I don't think I even want to know what $900 gets you in Manhattan.

 

[rokshana]

Considering that resident salary is pretty flat nationwide, it's pretty difficult to use that 30% rule without knowing what part of the country we're talking about here. I don't think I even want to know what $900 gets you in Manhattan.

a parking spot….

 

[SweetD2014]

I created a spreadsheet for monthly budget planning (starting with just the basic office-supplied template and adjusted accordingly). For me I'm moving across the country and don't have as much experience with COL there, I used numbeo.com to estimate what I might expect to spend on utilities and internet. I also counted as expenditures maxing out my 401K contribution (9% of my salary), and disability insurance. (Oh and of course those student loan payments :/ ) Be sure to talk to an agent who might be able to help you on that front, the white coat investor blog has some great tips in that regard (disability). After filling in all your projected expenditures, consider what you can really afford in terms of housing. For me I'm prioritizing location (prox to hospital) and safety (I'm a single female). With all of that I feel like housing will cost me about $150 more per month than I'm really comfy paying. So I'll plan to live frugally, and my dear patient parents have agreed to help me out in certain ways (keeping me on their cell phone plan and car insurance plan)... Barely noticeable costs to them (not to all families I know, I'm very lucky in that regard to have some amazing folks), big (albeit humiliating as a "doctor") help to me. I also plan on biking everywhere to save on gas and car maintenance... This is yet another great reason to live close to the hospital if you can. My fingers are crossed I'll still find a roommate, but failing that I have a plan to make it through intern year safely and comfortably, if still very frugally. Resist every temptation to live it up now that you're making a "real" salary... We're still making less than min wage on an hourly basis. 🙂

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

We're still making less than min wage on an hourly basis. 🙂

Not really. Even assuming you actually work 80 hours per week, every week, for 48 weeks out of the year (which very few residents do), we still make something like $11-12 per hour.

I'm not trying to say we get paid "well" while in residency, but I hate when people try to make out like we are under the poverty line or something.

 

[shan564]

Not really. Even assuming you actually work 80 hours per week, every week, for 48 weeks out of the year (which very few residents do), we still make something like $11-12 per hour.

I'm not trying to say we get paid "well" while in residency, but I hate when people try to make out like we are under the poverty line or something.

Yeah, I make more than most of my non-medical friends. I was hanging out with a group of friends from high school that includes one other doctor (who was an intern at the time), and he made a joking comment about the quality of a particular neighborhood, and the other friend said something like "hey, not all of us are DOCTORS like you." But that's in St. Louis, which is a pretty inexpensive place... I was able to buy a pretty nice townhouse in a great neighborhood near the hospital, and I still have plenty of money to buy random stuff whenever I feel like it.

I lived comfortably on $24k when I was just finishing college (only had to take 6 credit hours per semester in my senior year, so I worked full-time as a research lab tech), and that was including living expenses. Now I make over twice that, so I can spend $1200 on a mortgage and $400/month on IBR and still come out better than I was then.

The only people who seem to have a bit of trouble are the ones who grew up in a household with two doctors as parents, and they're not used to buying things only when they're on sale. If you learn to manage your money well, $50k can go a long way. I was lucky to have been growing up when my parents were grad students, so that was beaten into me... it's a bit more difficult for others, but definitely doable.

 

[Doctor Bob]

But that's in St. Louis, which is a pretty inexpensive place... I was able to buy a pretty nice townhouse in a great neighborhood near the hospital, and I still have plenty of money to buy random stuff whenever I feel like it.

The rental market in St. Louis seems to be a bit rougher than the purchase market... rents were comparable to what I saw in Ft. Lauderdale back in med school.
I think my rental contract in July is going to be about 50% of my monthly fellowship salary. But I was willing to go to a higher percentage because I have moonlighting opportunities to offset the cost, plus I've been saving a bit of my attending salary for the past year in expectation of the coming drop in income.

 

[SweetD2014]

Not really. Even assuming you actually work 80 hours per week, every week, for 48 weeks out of the year (which very few residents do), we still make something like $11-12 per hour.

I'm not trying to say we get paid "well" while in residency, but I hate when people try to make out like we are under the poverty line or something.

It's hardly about some sort of victim mentality, more like a prophylactic attitude adjustment in terms of "living like a doctor." And intern salaries vary, I'm on the lower end and actually will be making less than min wage. Far from the poverty line, certainly, but not enough to spend more than 30% of my income on rent. I'm very happy and fortunate to be doing what I love, no complaints here.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I'm on the lower end and actually will be making less than min wage.

No, you won't. The 1st %ile for residency salaries is about 35000 and is an extreme outlier. The 25th percentile is $47k. 35000/3840 is well above minimum wage. And again, that assumes that you ACTUALLY work 80 hours per week EVERY week.

https://www.aamc.org/download/265452/data/2011stipendreport.pdf

 

[SpartanWolverine]

Not a resident, but I do have experience with a relatively low salary in a similar situation.

In short, "too much" is a personal preference.

Similar to what @shan564 said, I lived for three years below 25k... in a major city. It's doable, and over those three years I went from paying 75% of my income for the first year (a tiny studio) to paying 30% near the end (sharing a place with my girlfriend). Was 75% of my income too much for rent? ... yes, in retrospect. However, I still made it work because I was willing to sacrifice other things to have my own place; that was my goal at the time.

With a 3k take-home each month, you should be able to live pretty well -- even on 30-40% -- in just about any area - perhaps just excluding Manhattan and the most expensive CA areas. Again, though, living well is relative to your expectations 🙂.

 

[shan564]

Not a resident, but I do have experience with a relatively low salary in a similar situation.

In short, "too much" is a personal preference.

Similar to what @shan564 said, I lived for three years below 25k... in a major city. It's doable, and over those three years I went from paying 75% of my income for the first year (a tiny studio) to paying 30% near the end (sharing a place with my girlfriend). Was 75% of my income too much for rent? ... yes, in retrospect. However, I still made it work because I was willing to sacrifice other things to have my own place; that was my goal at the time.

With a 3k take-home each month, you should be able to live pretty well -- even on 30-40% -- in just about any area - perhaps just excluding Manhattan and the most expensive CA areas. Again, though, living well is relative to your expectations 🙂.

Now that you mention "sharing a place," I've noticed that a disproportionate number of med students seem to be appalled by the idea of not having their own place. That's probably something that made a huge difference for me... if you can't bring yourself to have roommates, then life will be much harder for you. That's something I never understood, but I guess I can imagine why it would be hard to share a place if you've never had to do it before.

Somebody above mentioned the rental market in St. Louis. When I was debating between renting and buying, I was looking at places in the ~$700/month range, which would have been nicer than most of the places where I've lived since I started college and moved out of my parents' house. Then I found a friend who might want to stay with me, so we upgraded to the $900-1000ish range, with the assumption that I'd pay a bit more to get the bigger room because I made a lot more money than he did. But I eventually decided on buying a place with the help of the wonderful idea of the special mortgage programs for doctors.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

Now that you mention "sharing a place," I've noticed that a disproportionate number of med students seem to be appalled by the idea of not having their own place. That's probably something that made a huge difference for me... if you can't bring yourself to have roommates, then life will be much harder for you. That's something I never understood, but I guess I can imagine why it would be hard to share a place if you've never had to do it before.

Somebody above mentioned the rental market in St. Louis. When I was debating between renting and buying, I was looking at places in the ~$700/month range, which would have been nicer than most of the places where I've lived since I started college and moved out of my parents' house. Then I found a friend who might want to stay with me, so we upgraded to the $900-1000ish range, with the assumption that I'd pay a bit more to get the bigger room because I made a lot more money than he did. But I eventually decided on buying a place with the help of the wonderful idea of the special mortgage programs for doctors.

On the other hand, I know plenty of med students who are of the opinion that they spent the last 4+ years living with other students and they "deserve" to have their own place now. IMO, that's a silly frame of mind to have with no income... especially if the money financing a large apartment is all borrowed. My rule of thumb is to think about whether or not I would still buy something if it were double the price. If not, I won't use loan money to purchase it.

Of course, as I previously mentioned, the decision to spend money is a personal one, so my eventual desire to save more and sacrifice space is a tradeoff not everyone might be able to justify.

 

[shan564]

On the other hand, I know plenty of med students who are of the opinion that they spent the last 4+ years living with other students and they "deserve" to have their own place now. IMO, that's a silly frame of mind to have with no income... especially if the money financing a large apartment is all borrowed. My rule of thumb is to think about whether or not I would still buy something if it were double the price. If not, I won't use loan money to purchase it.

Of course, as I previously mentioned, the decision to spend money is a personal one, so my eventual desire to save more and sacrifice space is a tradeoff not everyone might be able to justify.

Yeah, this entire thread is probably not likely to help the OP much, since it's all about personal preferences. I spend a lot of money on fast cars and guitars. Some people spend a lot of money on food and wine. Others spend a lot of money on having a luxurious apartment.

Personally, "deserving" aside, I don't even want to live by myself. I find it boring.

But I think that the "deserve" mentality is a bit arrogant. You get your own place when you can afford it, not when you deserve it.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

Yeah, this entire thread is probably not likely to help the OP much, since it's all about personal preferences. I spend a lot of money on fast cars and guitars. Some people spend a lot of money on food and wine. Others spend a lot of money on having a luxurious apartment.

Personally, "deserving" aside, I don't even want to live by myself. I find it boring.

But I think that the "deserve" mentality is a bit arrogant. You get your own place when you can afford it, not when you deserve it.

I agree, but it's all to easy to conflate access to funds with the ability to afford spending all of it. Some students see a COA budget and take it as "permission" to spend a prescribed amount to attend school -- blowing out their refund and living a [relatively] lavish lifestyle... because why not, that's what the school said they needed, so it must be reasonable!

However, I'll keep my critique of consumer credit and loan accessibility to myself. 😉 Sorry for getting off-topic! All in all, 30-40% on rent is a good ballpark in order to have a balanced lifestyle while also being able to save for retirement (e.g., max out a Roth IRA) and make moderate discretionary purchases. If you spend more, you'll likely sacrifice in those other realms.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I personally don't see much of a need right now to max out 401(k) contributions or even save very much. I'll do the minimum but I don't see why current poor me should subsidize future wealthier me. You need safety and you need proximity, and if it costs a good amount of your monthly take-home to achieve it, fine.

And the vast majority of single residents in big cities have roommates. It's just the thing.

 

[rkaz]

Personally, "deserving" aside, I don't even want to live by myself. I find it boring.

Do any of you have any idea about how one would go finding a housemate? I am moving to a new city where I know nobody. The only people whose contact info I have are my fellow residents, but I hear it's not good to try to room with one of the residents in your own program in case there are personality differences. So I would like to find residents at the same university in different programs to share an apartment with. I have heard that there are sites that allow you to search for roommates, but I don't know if any of them are really legit. I don't want to live with someone off the street who may or may not be trustworthy. (I'm imagining the horror of living with some random person who does drugs, and has large parties late at night where the police are coming over due to the noise, and is always having random hookups sleeping over.) Shudder. I'd like to find another polite considerate professional person (a resident, or someone like that). How did you guys find your housemate? I asked my chief resident and he didn't know.

 

[shan564]

Do any of you have any idea about how one would go finding a housemate? I am moving to a new city where I know nobody. The only people whose contact info I have are my fellow residents, but I hear it's not good to try to room with one of the residents in your own program in case there are personality differences. So I would like to find residents at the same university in different programs to share an apartment with. I have heard that there are sites that allow you to search for roommates, but I don't know if any of them are really legit. I don't want to live with someone off the street who may or may not be trustworthy. (I'm imagining the horror of living with some random person who does drugs, and has large parties late at night where the police are coming over due to the noise, and is always having random hookups sleeping over.) Shudder. I'd like to find another polite considerate professional person (a resident, or someone like that). How did you guys find your housemate? I asked my chief resident and he didn't know.

Depends on the locale. In med school, I started out by staying with other students.

 

[Carlin]

I'm making 48k this year, and my rent is 900$/month. It leaves me plenty of money to go out for dinner, movies, etc and occassionally buy nice things. I have a roommate which made it much easier to find a nice place for a reasonable rent. It also cuts the electric/cable/gas bills in half!

I think your upper-limit of rent really depends on the lifestyle you hope to live. I'm a TY this year with a fair amount of free time, so I'm happy to have some extra cash to use for entertainment and travel (I'm in a long distance relationship so quick weekend trips are pretty common for me.) I could absolutely afford a couple extra hundred dollars in rent every month if I were more frugal. Anything in the realm of 1000$/month is perfectly reasonable. Getting much higher than that is going to mean you'll probably need to start scrimping and saving in other ways... But if you're a surgery intern working 100 hours/week, you may not miss that going-out money.

 

[Doctor Bob]

There are just too many personal input items so there's no hard-and-fast rule.
For me an acceptable rent is going to be higher than for others... but I have a wife and 2 school age kids so I'm looking for places in areas with good school districts. There were many lower rent places in closer to the hospital but the school systems were atrocious so they got crossed off my list. I ended up renting a house for $1750 a month (on a 60k/yr salary) in an area where the public school is nationally ranked. But that was the priority for me so I shelled out significantly more than I would have had I settled for a place in a different part of town. Where I'm renting would be a terrible place for a single person because there's no nightlife and it's a quiet sleepy neighborhood full of old rich retired people and yuppie families with young kids.

If I was single, what I would be willing to spend on an apartment would be significantly less and I'd want to be in a more active part of town. The rent would be less in general and then I'd look for someone to split the rent.

Everyone's situation is different and the factors important to you will affect how much you end up budgeting for rental.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I'm looking for safety and proximity to the hospital, privacy and space so my family can visit for a few days and stay in my apartment rather than a hotel, so my rent+utilities will be more in the range of $1300-1400, which comes to 40-45% of my income. Places 5+ miles from the hospital without gated security and numerous B&Es and thefts would probably be more like $950-1050 for rent+utilities. It really depends on what you're looking for.

 

[Ronin786]

Thanks for all the replies. For me the biggest problem has been budgeting monthly living expenses outside of rent when moving to an area I've never been to.

As rough estimates it seems possible to get away with 1200 rent and 1200 living expenses, which leaves a nice amount with a 3k monthly salary.

 

[shan564]

And $1200 is a lot for living expenses, unless you're including student loan payments in that amount.

 

[rokshana]

And $1200 is a lot for living expenses, unless you're including student loan payments in that amount.

not really…there is gas, electricity, cable internet, phone, car payments, insurance premiums(if your residency doesn't pay 100%), gas to commute, groceries…it can add up...

 

[Ronin786]

And $1200 is a lot for living expenses, unless you're including student loan payments in that amount.

Really?

Obviously you'd know better, given that you're currently experiencing it, but my calculations went like this:
Phone/Internet/Cable/Electricity 300
Food and groceries 400
Car Insurance 100
Fuel/Tolls/Maintenance 250

Thats $1,050 right there not counting miscellaneous costs (gym, parking at hospital), clothing and assuming utility is included with rent.

I did take the higher range for most costs, but I don't think $1,200 is a bad estimate.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Really?

Obviously you'd know better, given that you're currently experiencing it, but my calculations went like this:
Phone/Internet/Cable/Electricity 300
Food and groceries 400
Car Insurance 100
Fuel/Tolls/Maintenance 250

Thats $1,050 right there not counting miscellaneous costs (gym, parking at hospital), clothing and assuming utility is included with rent.

I did take the higher range for most costs, but I don't think $1,200 is a bad estimate.

Well let's see...I'll think about my expenses:
Phone/internet/cable: Agree about 300
Electricity: 60 in the summer, 100 in the winter
Fuel: I fill up my tank on avg 1x per month when in residency - so more like 50
Car insurance: I pay about half that per month - 50
Food: The hospital gives us $250 per month, and I eat 2/3 meals per day there. So my food costs were closer to 150 per month
Parking: 500 per year so ~40 per month
Gym: 25 per month

That's about 700 (and I included gym and parking). And add in a liberal social/clothing/misc budget and still well under 1200...

 

[rokshana]

Well let's see...I'll think about my expenses:
Phone/internet/cable: Agree about 300
Electricity: 60 in the summer, 100 in the winter
Fuel: I fill up my tank on avg 1x per month when in residency - so more like 50
Car insurance: I pay about half that per month - 50
Food: The hospital gives us $250 per month, and I eat 2/3 meals per day there. So my food costs were closer to 150 per month
Parking: 500 per year so ~40 per month
Gym: 25 per month

That's about 700 (and I included gym and parking). And add in a liberal social/clothing/misc budget and still well under 1200...

good for you…however that is probably not standard… many places don't give money for food …where i did residency we got $5 for every call day, 10 if it was overnight…so on regular days…nothing at q3 thats maybe 8-9 calls with 1-2 overnight so more like 50/month on service months…nothing on electives or non call services.
you're getting off cheap for utilities…
and its lucky you live close enough to the hospital or have a super efficient car…i live 10 miles from work and maybe fill 3x month…don't think 2-3 fills a month is unusual

and who is your car insurance with?? I want that company

and you made no mention of a car payment…many will have that as well

your budget is on the lower end…and its still ~ 700…the difference between 700 and 1200 isn't that much of a leap for someone who lives a little farther, has an older car, or a not very generous meal plan.

 

[shan564]

I spend $40 for phone, $30 for Internet, don't need cable, $50-80 for electricity, $100 for car insurance, $50 for fuel, $300 for car payments, free parking at hospital, $70 for health insurance, and probably $350ish on food. I bought a used Bowflex for $100, so I don't need a gym membership... also, the hospital/med school has a crappy gym where I can play basketball when I want cardio.

So maybe $1200 wasn't as liberal as I thought when I first mentioned it, but my car is way more expensive than what I need.

 

[eastcoastdr]

I agree with many of the other posters..I think it just depends on what your priorities are and what you are looking for.

My first priority was to live in a safe neighborhood. 2nd priority was to live by myself and 3rd, if possible, was a relatively "luxurious" apartment. Not saying I want a Park Ave penthouse, but I want nice functional appliances, laundry machines in unit or in building, walk-in closets and lots of natural light. I learned that I'd rather pay a little more to have a beautiful, comfortable apartment to come home to after a long stressful day at the hospital. Luckily, I'm starting residency in a city with a very low of cost of living. The cost of living played a HUGE factor in how I ranked programs because of my housing priorities. I'm able to have everything I want for approx $1050/mo (rent + parking in my building + utilities), which is about 30% of my take-home pay. The 30% rule worked out really well for me, because I'm left with enough to cover my loans AND cover whatever else miscellaneous expenses I'll have (shopping, dining out, weekend trips, etc).

That being said..I would try not to spend too excessively on rent esp if you have loans, but don't skimp for a place you know you wouldn't be happy living in either. I could have chosen to live in a place that was like $900 (the cheapest 1 bd/studio I found) but it was basically an unfinished basement apartment with no real windows. I'd rather spend the extra $150 for a nicer place. Obviously you have to see what's available in your city!

 

[Ronin786]

Well let's see...I'll think about my expenses:
Phone/internet/cable: Agree about 300
Electricity: 60 in the summer, 100 in the winter
Fuel: I fill up my tank on avg 1x per month when in residency - so more like 50
Car insurance: I pay about half that per month - 50
Food: The hospital gives us $250 per month, and I eat 2/3 meals per day there. So my food costs were closer to 150 per month
Parking: 500 per year so ~40 per month
Gym: 25 per month

That's about 700 (and I included gym and parking). And add in a liberal social/clothing/misc budget and still well under 1200...

Well as mentioned before, not every hospital has that sort of meal plan, so there's an extra $250 right there.
And even if you live just 10 miles away from the hospital, going in 26/month at $4 per gallon and with a 20 MPG car, you're going to end up paying at least $100 just going back and forth. That's not counting any extra trips.

$1,200 is probably on the higher side, but I guess something in between sounds about right.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Well as mentioned before, not every hospital has that sort of meal plan, so there's an extra $250 right there.
And even if you live just 10 miles away from the hospital, going in 26/month at $4 per gallon and with a 20 MPG car, you're going to end up paying at least $100 just going back and forth. That's not counting any extra trips.

$1,200 is probably on the higher side, but I guess something in between sounds about right.

I thought the food stipend was pretty standard - at least it sure seemed that way on the interview trail?

My car gets more like 30 mpg city driving. And my commute is less than 10 miles round trip. So I only fill up about once every four weeks.

 

[mvenus929]

Well as mentioned before, not every hospital has that sort of meal plan, so there's an extra $250 right there.

Some of us don't have a food budget of $400 per month (for a single person). Including eating out, I rarely go over $200.

So really, this whole discussion just comes down to priorities. You probably shouldn't spend more than 50% of your salary on rent, but if you're willing to make sacrifices in other places and make sure you account for food, utilities, parking/gas/maintenance, student loan payments, etc, then spend whatever you can afford.

 

[Modafinil]

Damn I didn't realize food stipends were rare. I have unlimited food, free parking, and fully paid health insurance. Apparently its common for residents at my hospital to go in on days off just to eat.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I thought the food stipend was pretty standard - at least it sure seemed that way on the interview trail?

We got $50/month in residency (only at the mothership) and then they took that away. Got nothing during fellowship (different program), so not sure it's standard.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Damn I didn't realize food stipends were rare. I have unlimited food, free parking, and fully paid health insurance. Apparently its common for residents at my hospital to go in on days off just to eat.

There was one hospital from the interview trail, I can't remember which one, where the system was just that after 6pm, residents could automatically get up to 10 dollars of food from the cafeteria. So the residents would all just swing by on their way home and pick up $10 worth of coke, milk, chips, etc, to take home.

 

[AlternateSome1]

No, you won't. The 1st %ile for residency salaries is about 35000 and is an extreme outlier. The 25th percentile is $47k. 35000/3840 is well above minimum wage. And again, that assumes that you ACTUALLY work 80 hours per week EVERY week.

https://www.aamc.org/download/265452/data/2011stipendreport.pdf

The people who claim to make "less than minimum wage" also tend to state that they would be making time-and-a-half during all hours above 40 per week, per federal overtime laws. In the real world they would likely be capped at 40 hours at one job, then would have to work the other 40 at another job.

If you assume the overtime the calculations would be 40 hours x 48 weeks = 1920 hours at "normal pay". Then 1920 hours of "overtime" at 1.5 pay = 2880. 1920 + 2880 = 4800 units of adjusted pay-hours.

$35,000 / 4800 = $7.29 per hour. This is assuming pretty continuously rigorous work hours and a very low initial salary. At that point you are still above the federal minimum wage, but may be below that of some states.

I guess if your program is one which has an 88 hour work hour exception you could, theoretically, cross that line. However, the old "minimum wage" argument was much more valid before the work hour restrictions.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

The people who claim to make "less than minimum wage" also tend to state that they would be making time-and-a-half during all hours above 40 per week, per federal overtime laws. In the real world they would likely be capped at 40 hours at one job, then would have to work the other 40 at another job.

If you assume the overtime the calculations would be 40 hours x 48 weeks = 1920 hours at "normal pay". Then 1920 hours of "overtime" at 1.5 pay = 2880. 1920 + 2880 = 4800 units of adjusted pay-hours.

$35,000 / 4800 = $7.29 per hour. This is assuming pretty continuously rigorous work hours and a very low initial salary. At that point you are still above the federal minimum wage, but may be below that of some states.

I guess if your program is one which has an 88 hour work hour exception you could, theoretically, cross that line. However, the old "minimum wage" argument was much more valid before the work hour restrictions.

And again - 35K is an exceptionally low estimated salary. The 25th percentile salary for interns is 47K and the median 49K.

 

[Ronin786]

I thought the food stipend was pretty standard - at least it sure seemed that way on the interview trail?

My car gets more like 30 mpg city driving. And my commute is less than 10 miles round trip. So I only fill up about once every four weeks.

From what I saw it was pretty hit or miss. Some programs gave $1,000 for the whole year while others had a monthly stipend or didn't mention anything at all.

I believe where I matched we get $10 per night of call, but I'm honestly not even sure.

 

[nick_carraway]

Are there federal payroll exemptions for residents? I'm asking because Intuit's payroll calculator for CA for $50k shows an $18k federal income tax which seems excessive. If true, it'd change possible rent from $1200 to $800.

 

[Perrotfish]

And again - 35K is an exceptionally low estimated salary. The 25th percentile salary for interns is 47K and the median 49K.

35K isn't just low, its also just flat out confusing. 50K of the 120K the hospital spends on you is 'direct reimbursement', which means they don't get reimbursed for it unless they pay it to you. I was always under the impression that the amount didn't vary much by region. I don't understand why anyone would get paid less.

 

[Ronin786]

Are there federal payroll exemptions for residents? I'm asking because Intuit's payroll calculator for CA for $50k shows an $18k federal income tax which seems excessive. If true, it'd change possible rent from $1200 to $800.

I've been using paycheckcity.com.

Based on 50k in CA it shows a take home of 1542 semi-monthly, so somewhere like $13k in taxes

http://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/salary/

 

[shiftingmirage]

Are there federal payroll exemptions for residents?

Not directly related to this question, but for this calendar year, since we are still in med school, we would get a education deduction of 4k, right?

 

[RangerBob]

Not directly related to this question, but for this calendar year, since we are still in med school, we would get a education deduction of 4k, right?

You can deduct the cost of tuition if it was billed in the same calendar year as you file taxes. Often, schools will bill you for spring tuition at the end of December. If you're fortunate enough to be billed in January, the odds are you will get most of your federal taxes back since you'll report half a year's salary on your first tax return (unless you spouse has been working as well, but you'll still get a good amount back).

 

[Raryn]

You can deduct the cost of tuition if it was billed in the same calendar year as you file taxes. Often, schools will bill you for spring tuition at the end of December. If you're fortunate enough to be billed in January, the odds are you will get most of your federal taxes back since you'll report half a year's salary on your first tax return (unless you spouse has been working as well, but you'll still get a good amount back).

Because I paid tuition in January 2013, I managed to claim an education credit on my tax return and get an extra $1100 back last year.

 

[rkaz]

Not saying I want a Park Ave penthouse, but I want nice functional appliances, laundry machines in unit or in building, walk-in closets and lots of natural light. I learned that I'd rather pay a little more to have a beautiful, comfortable apartment to come home to after a long stressful day at the hospital.

This is exactly what I am looking for in an apartment... my own laundry machines, big windows with natural light, etc. Maybe we should live together? 😉

I am also looking for hardwood floors/tile, high ceilings and a large balcony. I don't know why large windows and a balcony/patio aren't standard in all apartments. If I don't have a lot of natural light and windows I get restless and feel like I'm cooped up in a box. Unfortunately the apartments that have all these features I'm looking for are hundreds of dollars more than those that don't, so I may have to compromise somewhere. Although I could technically still afford this place on my salary, I'd then have to compromise on other activities that I'd like (such as going to a nice gym, engaging in other health related classes and activities to decompress outside of residency etc). And if I decide to spend the money on both the apartment and other niceties, then there is no longer money to make my IBR payments, which would be a problem. A one-bedroom apartment I love in the location I love will cost me $1500 a month, vs $1000 elsewhere in the city with less amenities. At some point I have to prioritize where I want to spend the extra money... whether on apartment or other interests. Bleh.

 

[Ronin786]

This is exactly what I am looking for in an apartment... my own laundry machines, big windows with natural light, etc. Maybe we should live together? 😉

I am also looking for hardwood floors/tile, high ceilings and a large balcony. I don't know why large windows and a balcony/patio aren't standard in all apartments. If I don't have a lot of natural light and windows I get restless and feel like I'm cooped up in a box. Unfortunately the apartments that have all these features I'm looking for are hundreds of dollars more than those that don't, so I may have to compromise somewhere. Although I could technically still afford this place on my salary, I'd then have to compromise on other activities that I'd like (such as going to a nice gym, engaging in other health related classes and activities to decompress outside of residency etc). And if I decide to spend the money on both the apartment and other niceties, then there is no longer money to make my IBR payments, which would be a problem. A one-bedroom apartment I love in the location I love will cost me $1500 a month, vs $1000 elsewhere in the city with less amenities. At some point I have to prioritize where I want to spend the extra money... whether on apartment or other interests. Bleh.

I'm in that same boat. Apartments with laundry in unit seem to be horribly difficult to find, and the ones that I've found are easily $200-300 more expensive than those without.

I also place high value on being in an area with good accessibility. Lots of food, groceries and utilities around. In the long term I believe that's just as valuable as a nice apartment. Thankfully walk score is awesome for that.

Unfortunately, most good places also seem to increase rent by at least 10% year to year. I guess that's what salary increase between PGY1 and PGY2 is, but it still sucks nonetheless.

 

[nick_carraway]

Unfortunately, most good places also seem to increase rent by at least 10% year to year. I guess that's what salary increase between PGY1 and PGY2 is, but it still sucks nonetheless.

At least you get an increase. My program averages out to ~2.7% over 5 years, but some years there is no substantial raise at all. I guess my GME office doesn't think inflation exists.

 

[gutonc]

This is exactly what I am looking for in an apartment... my own laundry machines, big windows with natural light, etc. Maybe we should live together? 😉

I am also looking for hardwood floors/tile, high ceilings and a large balcony. I don't know why large windows and a balcony/patio aren't standard in all apartments. If I don't have a lot of natural light and windows I get restless and feel like I'm cooped up in a box. Unfortunately the apartments that have all these features I'm looking for are hundreds of dollars more than those that don't, so I may have to compromise somewhere. Although I could technically still afford this place on my salary, I'd then have to compromise on other activities that I'd like (such as going to a nice gym, engaging in other health related classes and activities to decompress outside of residency etc). And if I decide to spend the money on both the apartment and other niceties, then there is no longer money to make my IBR payments, which would be a problem. A one-bedroom apartment I love in the location I love will cost me $1500 a month, vs $1000 elsewhere in the city with less amenities. At some point I have to prioritize where I want to spend the extra money... whether on apartment or other interests. Bleh.

Welcome to the exciting world of being an adult. Where you have finite resources and have to decide how to spend them.

Good luck.