How much of an effect does being URM do for an application?

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wolfie77 said:
lolz. Note the 500-100 yrs ago part (There are no Asians or Indians in the Western hemisphere in that time period because no large migration had yet occurred.)

At least read the two paragraphs following the quote. They're talking about Europeans.
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I'm waiting for you to make a point that actually helps your argument that racism is only from wjites
 
Sandstorm said:
Oh and way to shoot yourself in the foot...

"more significant impact THAN ANY OTHER FORM OF RACISM". So if you're suggesting westerners = whites, then your own quote suggests there are other forms of racism, ie from non- whites.
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Now you're just getting into semantics. On the one hand, you're admitting that the history of racism has been that white people are at the top. On the other hand you're insisting that racism doesn't have anything to do with white people.

Some people, like myself and a ton of other people who have done scholarship in this area, view the reality of racism on a global scale and decide to call racism as we see it (ie with white people on top).

You can disagree if you want but don't act like what we're saying isn't valid just because you don't like it.
 
sliceofbread136 said:
I posted the definition they gave. It is literally the first line on the website. Once again, stop being stupid.
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I really wish you'd stop being insulting and emotional just because you're not comfortable with what you're hearing.
 
wolfie77 said:
I really wish you'd stop being insulting and emotional just because you're not comfortable with what you're hearing.
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Oh I'm perfectly comfortable with it, I just think you're dead wrong.
 
wolfie77 said:
Now you're just getting into semantics. On the one hand, you're admitting that the history of racism has been that white people are at the top. On the other hand you're insisting that racism doesn't have anything to do with white people.

Some people, like myself and a ton of other people who have done scholarship in this area, view the reality of racism on a global scale and decide to call racism as we see it (ie with white people on top).

You can disagree if you want but don't act like what we're saying isn't valid just because you don't like it.
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We aren't saying any of that. We are saying it is possible to be racist to a white person based on the formal definition of racism and common sense. Your support is literally "I am right, deal with it".
 
wolfie77 said:
I really wish you'd stop being insulting and emotional just because you're not comfortable with what you're hearing.
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Maybe if you supported your claims in the least.... I'm pretty sure I'm being trolled... I guess you are a good one.
 
wolfie77 said:
Now you're just getting into semantics. On the one hand, you're admitting that the history of racism has been that white people are at the top. On the other hand you're insisting that racism doesn't have anything to do with white people.

Some people, like myself and a ton of other people who have done scholarship in this area, view the reality of racism on a global scale and decide to call racism as we see it (ie with white people on top).

You can disagree if you want but don't act like what we're saying isn't valid just because you don't like it.
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I agree. White people run ****. Its just the truth.
 
sliceofbread136 said:
We aren't saying any of that. We are saying it is possible to be racist to a white person based on the formal definition of racism and common sense. Your support is literally "I am right, deal with it".
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If by support you mean you want me to start rattling off dates and events of racism, I don't feel like I need to.

Dude, I'm assuming that you have some grasp of outlines of world history and that history is self-evident with respect to who has subjugated whom.
 
sliceofbread136 said:
Maybe if you supported your claims in the least.... I'm pretty sure I'm being trolled... I guess you are a good one.
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You're not getting trolled. Unless you want to start playing with the definition of "troll." LOL
 
wolfie77 said:
If by support you mean you want me to start rattling off dates and events of racism, I don't feel like I need to.

Dude, I'm assuming that you have some grasp of outlines of world history and that history is self-evident with respect to who has subjugated whom.
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Support for your redefinition of racism. Literally every definition of racism contradicts your claim that white people are the only ones who can be racist. I don't see how dates matter at all.

This really is textbook trolling. "I am right, you are wrong. I don't need to support it because I say so. Stop being so uncomfortable with the truth."
 
sliceofbread136 said:
Support for your redefinition of racism. Literally every definition of racism contradicts your claim that white people are the only ones who can be racist. I don't see how dates matter at all.

This really is textbook trolling. "I am right, you are wrong. I don't need to support it because I say so. Stop being so uncomfortable with the truth."
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So what you want is for me to start linking you places that back up what I'm saying?
Let me know if that's what you want and I'll do it.

I was thinking that trolling involved malicious intent to get a rise out of someone on the Internet.... Perhaps I got a rise out of you on the Internet, but I had no intent but to air my opinions on racism after getting tired of hearing people operating under a meaning of racism that I disagreed with.
 
wolfie77 said:
So what you want is for me to start linking you places that back up what I'm saying?
Let me know if that's what you want and I'll do it.

I was thinking that trolling involved malicious intent to get a rise out of someone on the Internet.... Perhaps I got a rise out of you on the Internet, but I had no intent but to air my opinions on racism after getting tired of hearing people operating under a meaning of racism that I disagreed with.
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No I want you to redefine words to fit the purposes of your argument without support. I think I'm gonna to stop wasting the energy of my fingers.
 
Lol I'm not sure if Wolfie is serious with these posts or not. If so..... Thank you for all the lulzzzz.
 
thread is still going? dudes lets call a truce. We Urms will be laughing our way to med school while you guys jump all those hoops. Happy?
 
Freesia88 said:
So because it is more likely that they will not complete medical school they should not be given a chance to even get in at all? Wow.

Since they are such losers, why do they even deserve to pollute the earth with their presence? Might as well kill them off. Sterilize them so they cannot keep reproducing the scum of the earth....Wait...that was done already. Remember the Eugenics program? Does Tuskegee sound familiar to you?
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First, way to take hyperbole to a whole new level.

Second, isn't a person with a 2.5 GPA less likely to be able to handle the rigors of medical school? Should we make sure to admit them too? Med schools can and should deny admission to those less likely to be able to handle the academics. Would you expect an employer to hire you if he thought you couldn't handle the job? And, of course, there is the applicant who might have been able to handle it, but whose spot was taken by someone who couldn't.
 
Shockwave456 said:
First, way to take hyperbole to a whole new level.

Second, isn't a person with a 2.5 GPA less likely to be able to handle the rigors of medical school? Should we make sure to admit them too? Med schools can and should deny admission to those less likely to be able to handle the academics. Would you expect an employer to hire you if he thought you couldn't handle the job? And, of course, there is the applicant who might have been able to handle it, but whose spot was taken by someone who couldn't.
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Funny thing is it was not hyperbole. Minorities were actually sterilized and and used as test subjects.

And I am not sure but I do not think the URM's being admitted to med school are those with 2.5 GPA's. Second, the spots do not "belong" to any applicant so nobody's spot was taken from them. They belong to whoever the medical school chooses for whatever reason to give it to.

This is my last post on this thread because it is going no where. We are all too blinded by our self -righteousness to really see things from the others viewpoints.

I hope we all achieve our goals in life.
 
Yonko Shanks said:
thread is still going? dudes lets call a truce. We Urms will be laughing our way to med school while you guys jump all those hoops. Happy?
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This is the kind of rub-it-in-people's-faces attitude that not only doesn't help but is also wildly inaccurate. If you think you're going to get in solely on URM, you're in for a big surprise.
 
sliceofbread136 said:
everyone who disagrees with your opinion is a racist idiot? How mature.

If it's all about economic range and being the first to attend college, then why not base it specifically on those factors instead of race? That specific information is already required on the application.

The urm advantage is so med schools don't get sued by angry minority groups. That is the sole reason, everything else they tell you is colorful bullcrap.
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+1
 
wolfie77 said:
This is the kind of rub-it-in-people's-faces attitude that not only doesn't help but is also wildly inaccurate. If you think you're going to get in solely on URM, you're in for a big surprise.
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I was being sarcastic.. I know urms won't get in with a 2.0 and 20 mcat.
 
Freesia88 said:
Funny thing is it was not hyperbole. Minorities were actually sterilized and and used as test subjects.

And I am not sure but I do not think the URM's being admitted to med school are those with 2.5 GPA's. Second, the spots do not "belong" to any applicant so nobody's spot was taken from them. They belong to whoever the medical school chooses for whatever reason to give it to.

This is my last post on this thread because it is going no where. We are all too blinded by our self -righteousness to really see things from the others viewpoints.

I hope we all achieve our goals in life.
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Yeah, I get it. The question is how does unfairly admitting URMs now help the victims of decades ago? Is that going to correct the injustices that were done?

And I did not say that URM's were the ones having 2.5 GPA. I was simply providing a counterexample to your argument that people less likely to complete medical school should be given the same chance of admission. I have nothing against URMs, but I'm disappointed in the application process that gives them an unfair advantage.
 
Yonko Shanks said:
thread is still going? dudes lets call a truce. We Urms will be laughing our way to med school while you guys jump all those hoops. Happy?
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eheheheheh. just making yourself look horrible. TERRIBLE.
 
wolfie77 said:
I told you it was uncomfortable. But just bc you don't like it, doesn't make it untrue.

Racism, on our planet, is a white-at-the-top enterprise. It could have been some other way, but for historical reasons it ended up this way.

Now, that doesn't mean that a non-white can't be hateful or discriminatory against a white person, but that doesn't make it racism.
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Talk about the ultimate confirmation bias. If blacks are discriminated against=racism. If whites are then it's not racism. Under this lens, you are literally unable to take information from the world and update your beliefs, which is the fundamental way of gaining knowledge.

3e643c8f00f16a170f3be87f0116b9cb.png
 
Shockwave456 said:
Yeah, I get it. The question is how does unfairly admitting URMs now help the victims of decades ago? Is that going to correct the injustices that were done?

And I did not say that URM's were the ones having 2.5 GPA. I was simply providing a counterexample to your argument that people less likely to complete medical school should be given the same chance of admission. I have nothing against URMs, but I'm disappointed in the application process that gives them an unfair advantage.
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Define unfair. The best of every race and ethnicity get admitted. Be among the best of your race/ethnity and you too can be admitted to medical school.

Should we continue the policies of the past? Well into the twentieth century, black physicians could not join the AMA because they were barred from membership in their state medical society. Black pre-meds had to go out of state to historically black medical schools because many states in the Deep South would not admit blacks to the state-sponsored medical schools. And, once licensed to practice medicine, many black physicians were limited to practicing out of their homes and making house calls because the hospitals would not give them admitting privileges. Elderly folks like my mother recall when hospitals separated patients by race and sex (a black female patient would have only other black female patients as roommates).
 
Yonko Shanks said:
I know.
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If someone was actually interested in facts on this issue, they would find that there has been very little progress. URMs are as underrepresented as ever. If you look at the AAMC data, (after stripping out Puerto Rico and HBMSs) URMs are a tiny fraction of the applicant pool and current student body. It should be a national embarrassment. Other overlooked facts are that the majority of URMs in the applicant pool have great stats and are competitive in any context and that the majority of matriculants with low stats are white.

This thread should be titled "How many unfairly addmited URMs in medical school can dance on the head of a pin".
 
Why don't I start a thread stating, "Does being a white male help me?" and then complain about my plight? Look at the facts man:

47.9% Overall Acceptance Whites; 39.6% Overall Acceptance Blacks, with URM help.

https://www.aamc.org/download/157958/data/table25-mcatgpa-grid-white-0911.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/157594/data/table25-b-mcatgpa-grid-black.pdf

This shouldn't be a racism debate, we just need physicians who are representative of the population; there's obviously a heavy white bias here, and URMs should have an advantage.
 
ShenanigansMD said:
Why don't I start a thread stating, "Does being a white male help me?" and then complain about my plight? Look at the facts man:

47.9% Overall Acceptance Whites; 39.6% Overall Acceptance Blacks, with URM help.

https://www.aamc.org/download/157958/data/table25-mcatgpa-grid-white-0911.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/157594/data/table25-b-mcatgpa-grid-black.pdf

This shouldn't be a racism debate, we just need physicians who are representative of the population; there's obviously a heavy white bias here, and URMs should have an advantage.
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Every coach is white? Tomlinson, mike brown, about 5 coaches in the ACC, plenty in the nba haha that's a stupid point completely unrelated to the thread. Sports is a seperate thing unrelated to this silly thread.
 
GrabSlamBoot said:
Every coach is white? Tomlinson, mike brown, about 5 coaches in the ACC, plenty in the nba haha that's a stupid point completely unrelated to the thread. Sports is a seperate thing unrelated to this silly thread.
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I meant mostly, you're right. I was just using it as an example, I didn't mean to derail the thread.
 
LizzyM said:
Define unfair. The best of every race and ethnicity get admitted. Be among the best of your race/ethnity and you too can be admitted to medical school.

Should we continue the policies of the past? Well into the twentieth century, black physicians could not join the AMA because they were barred from membership in their state medical society. Black pre-meds had to go out of state to historically black medical schools because many states in the Deep South would not admit blacks to the state-sponsored medical schools. And, once licensed to practice medicine, many black physicians were limited to practicing out of their homes and making house calls because the hospitals would not give them admitting privileges. Elderly folks like my mother recall when hospitals separated patients by race and sex (a black female patient would have only other black female patients as roommates).
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I just disagree that an applicant should have to best among of his/her race/ethnicity. He/she should be among the best of the total applicant pool. It's not broken down by disability status, sexual orientation, gender identity, or other demographics that are much more discriminated against today. Just because racial minorities are URMs does not mean they should only have to compete against other URMs.
 
LizzyM said:
Define unfair. The best of every race and ethnicity get admitted. Be among the best of your race/ethnity and you too can be admitted to medical school.

Should we continue the policies of the past? Well into the twentieth century, black physicians could not join the AMA because they were barred from membership in their state medical society. Black pre-meds had to go out of state to historically black medical schools because many states in the Deep South would not admit blacks to the state-sponsored medical schools. And, once licensed to practice medicine, many black physicians were limited to practicing out of their homes and making house calls because the hospitals would not give them admitting privileges. Elderly folks like my mother recall when hospitals separated patients by race and sex (a black female patient would have only other black female patients as roommates).
Click to expand...

My "abuelo" left the Army Air Corp in 1946 after serving through the war. He was decorated (he was most proud of his "before Pearl Harbor" ribbon) he had a new family and the GI Bill and wanted to make the most of his life. The Army told him he had a 140 IQ and could do anything he wanted. So he came back to Texas (his home) He could not attend the University of Texas (no Hispanics wanted), and he didn't live near one of the historically Hispanic colleges. So he tried a small private where he was harassed until he finally quit and took a job in life insurance. I can only guess how different my dad's life would have been if my abuelo had been allowed to attend college.
 
plumazul said:
My "abuelo" left the Army Air Corp in 1946 after serving through the war. He was decorated (he was most proud of his "before Pearl Harbor" ribbon) he had a new family and the GI Bill and wanted to make the most of his life. The Army told him he had a 140 IQ and could do anything he wanted. So he came back to Texas (his home) He could not attend the University of Texas (no Hispanics wanted), and he didn't live near one of the historically Hispanic colleges. So he tried a small private where he was harassed until he finally quit and took a job in life insurance. I can only guess how different my dad's life would have been if my abuelo had been allowed to attend college.
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This is heartbreaking and infuriating. This sort of institutional racism is something that is not publicized enough in this country.
However, anti-URM people are not going to give half a s*it. Many are blinded by their desire to achieve their goal and perceive (unrealistically) URMs as a threat.
 
wolfie77 said:
This is heartbreaking and infuriating. This sort of institutional racism is something that is not publicized enough in this country.
However, anti-URM people are not going to give half a s*it. Many are blinded by their desire to achieve their goal and perceive (unrealistically) URMs as a threat.
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spend a year in the application season and go sit on some waitlists and rejections. then check mdapps and see people with much lower stats get in.
 
kpcrew said:
spend a year in the application season and go sit on some waitlists and rejections. then check mdapps and see people with much lower stats get in.
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But kpcrew...you didn't ask them about their feelings...

Feelings trump all dontchaknow
 
kpcrew said:
spend a year in the application season and go sit on some waitlists and rejections. then check mdapps and see people with much lower stats get in.
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Exactly. It's a self-centered motivation behind a lot of the anti-URM sentiments.

However, I would warn you that there are definitely fake MDapps out there. I think I once saw a "Hispanic female" get into Stanford with like a 25 MCAT.......yeah pretty sure that didn't happen.
 
A little something from the archives. I first posted this several summers ago:

Q: If no URM were admitted to medical school, what proportion of those non-URM who do not matriculate in a given year (are not admitted to any school) would still be without an offer of admission?

A: I don't have my handy tables with me but I'm going to venture an estimate: The proportion of non-matriculants who would still be sitting out in the cold if no URM were admitted to any US medical school (including Howard and the other historically black institutions) is ~89%.

(about half of the ~35,000 applicants per year are not admitted to any school. About 10% of those who are admitted are URM and 10% of those who are not admitted are URM. So, currently ~15,750 non-URM do not get admitted to any school. If there were no URM, the number of non-URM who would not be admitted to any school would be ~14,000)
 
wolfie77 said:
Exactly. It's a self-centered motivation behind a lot of the anti-URM sentiments.

However, I would warn you that there are definitely fake MDapps out there. I think I once saw a "Hispanic female" get into Stanford with like a 25 MCAT.......yeah pretty sure that didn't happen.
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But being pro-URM isn't self-centered motivation?
 
Sandstorm said:
But kpcrew...you didn't ask them about their feelings...

Feelings trump all dontchaknow
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Kinda like when you and slice of bread's wittle feelings got hurt you both got a wittle mad when you didn't like the my interpretation of race dynamics? And you both just kinda stopped being reasonable and started to spew insults instead of reasoned argument?
 
Sandstorm said:
But being pro-URM isn't self-centered motivation?
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It's not. Have you seen (even on SDN) all the white ppl in favor? Furthermore, many of the URMs themselves support the system because they know it works for their communities, not just themselves.
 
kpcrew said:
spend a year in the application season and go sit on some waitlists and rejections. then check mdapps and see people with much lower stats get in.
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Yeah this must be hard-I don't know yet. But we all know in here that's
not all about numbers.
 
wolfie77 said:
Kinda like when you and slice of bread's wittle feelings got hurt you both got a wittle mad when you didn't like the my interpretation of race dynamics? And you both just kinda stopped being reasonable and started to spew insults instead of reasoned argument?
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You made no reasoned argument.
 
wolfie77 said:
Kinda like when you and slice of bread's wittle feelings got hurt you both got a wittle mad when you didn't like the my interpretation of race dynamics? And you both just kinda stopped being reasonable and started to spew insults instead of reasoned argument?
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My feelings weren't hurt I just think you're a damn fool
 
Sandstorm said:
My feelings weren't hurt I just think you're a damn fool
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Again, with the name calling. Is this what you resort to when you get too "emotional," even though you derided emotion in one of your most recent posts?
 
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