How much of your income are you investing?

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How much of your household annual income are you investing?

  • <50k

    Votes: 6 10.9%
  • 50-100k

    Votes: 14 25.5%
  • 100k-150k

    Votes: 13 23.6%
  • 150k-200k

    Votes: 8 14.5%
  • >200k

    Votes: 10 18.2%
  • I’m a super wealthy outlier

    Votes: 4 7.3%

  • Total voters
    55

Jabbed

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I’m specifically referring to actual long term investments (stocks, 401k/403b, real estate/REIT) rather than places that you’re just parking money (HY savings, T bills, CDs).

I’m maybe putting away $75k-100k a year in tax privileged retirement accounts that I have no intention of touching until retirement. I don’t have the inclination to get involved with real estate. We’ll certainly have a nest egg in 20-30 years, but I’m not on any sort of FIRE track as far as I can see.

All of our excess income goes into a HY savings account, but with the interest rates on that waning I’m at something of a loss as to where to put my cash.

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Why would you not be investing cash you don’t need in the short term?
Personally, I’m anticipating expensive home renovation costs over the next 3-5 years and am worried about market crashing during that time. My HY savings was at like 5% with 0 risk so was a no brainer at the time.

I’m starting to look at T bills and municipal securities now for my excess cash.
 
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I do a lot.. i max my 401k/PSP, DB plan, save in post tax accounts etc.. this is the way.. As Jay-z says… “financial freedom is my only hope”
 
Personally, I’m anticipating expensive home renovation costs over the next 3-5 years and am worried about market crashing during that time. My HY savings was at like 5% with 0 risk so was a no brainer at the time.

I’m starting to look at T bills and municipal securities now for my excess cash.
If you need the money in that time frame then that money shouldn’t be in the market anyway.
 
Some votes might be wrong like mine, I voted assuming you just meant free cash investing like stocks and options, didnt read later you meant including 401ks and stuff
 
The federal maximum (what is that? 65k?) plus 60k for a life insurance policy as an investment I can draw from if needed (and have), and 24k as just monthly blind stock market investment that I generally don't touch.
 
Usually, I max out my SEP and then put as much as I can into my non tax deferred brokerage account. Good years, it's around 120K. Bad years it's just the SEP ~70K. I haven't put anything in for the past year other than my SEP maximum due to moving, carrying 2 mortgages atm, lots of new home project expenses. Once things settle down after taxes and selling my old home, I'll try to get back to 100K.
 
Some votes might be wrong like mine, I voted assuming you just meant free cash investing like stocks and options, didnt read later you meant including 401ks and stuff
I’m pretty sure that you can change your vote.
 
I put 150-200. Im able to contribute 110k between my defined benefit and 401k plans. After expenses/mortgages/taxes I have 147k left over. I usually put half of that as additional house payment and invest the other half. I think I invested maybe a bit more last year though. I don’t have kids.
That’s awesome, keep it up!
 
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When I got out, I initially set a minimum goal of saving 150k/yr, but I counted paying off the single high-interest loan I had, and the first 2-3 years also put away some stuff to use as a house down payment.

After that, I did what most people seem to do above—
Maxed 403b + match
Back door Roth early in the year
Max Solo401k for any 1099 income [I’m w2, but some years have had 30-50k of additional side gig 1099 income]
Eventually got a 457b at 20k/year
Eventually got an HSA

So that structured retirement savings aside…

Anything left over at the end of the month about the minimal amount I like to carry in my checking gets swept to my brokerage account and invested. I probably keep 2-3mo of cash on hand in either checking or savings accounts. In my brokerage account I pretty much invest it similarly to my retirement accounts, though I do usually keep 5-10% in very safe, easy to access form (call it an emergency fund if you want). Currently money markets work fine, but I’ve used taxfree bonds and other vehicles at times. If I KNOW we have extra expenses coming up, I’ll just let the checking account balloon a couple months, then sweep to brokerage once the expensive thing is paid.

I personally think you shouldn’t sit on more than 3-6mo of cash (generally speaking) and should have any excess invested into SOMETHING. Precisely WHAT you chose can vary by risk tolerance and timeline to use, of course. For me around 15 years out from training, despite always maxing my available retirement accounts, my taxable brokerage account currently holds significantly more of my net worth… so I’m happy its been invested.
 
These results are pretty impressive, with more than 50% of respondents so far investing at least 100k per year.

Work for 20 years investing 100k annually at 8% interest, and you'd expect to have 4.5 million at the end of those big earning years. Typically this gets a new graduate to about 50-55 years of age and the "I'm done with this" portion of their career. Give them another 10 years of working the bare minimum to subsidize their lifestyle expenses and investing nothing, and they would "retire" with a nest egg of about 10 million, safely withdrawing 350k annually.

This is certainly a pathway to a wealthy, comfortable retirement.
 
I thought I saved/invested only 120k last year but after I added up everything (401k/roth 401k/roth IRA/HSA etc...), it was around 150k. I am a lowly hospitalist, so I think ED docs should be able to save/invest a lot more.
 
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These results are pretty impressive, with more than 50% of respondents so far investing at least 100k per year.

Work for 20 years investing 100k annually at 8% interest, and you'd expect to have 4.5 million at the end of those big earning years. Typically this gets a new graduate to about 50-55 years of age and the "I'm done with this" portion of their career. Give them another 10 years of working the bare minimum to subsidize their lifestyle expenses and investing nothing, and they would "retire" with a nest egg of about 10 million, safely withdrawing 350k annually.

This is certainly a pathway to a wealthy, comfortable retirement.
I actually think after 2-3 millions, people should consider working PT only to pay for their lifestyle expenses. It's a different story if they LOVE their job.

With your scenario, people would still retire with a 8 million. Not sure if retiring with 8 vs 10 mil make a huge difference in lifestyle.
 
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401k
BDR
HSA
Taxable
529

That gets me to about 75k. Trying to push it to 100k this year, but also trying to hit mortgage hard too.
 
If you have access to a cash balance plan you can put 50-200k+ in there alone. For me I Max out all i can pretax. Set the Max and I’ll hit it. One big benefit of a unicorn gig is money is good so saving is a little easier.

Regarding the 4.5M etc.. inflation… its a bitch.. thats 4.5M in todays money which will be a lot less than 4.5m in 20 years. Even with 2.5% inflation in 20 years it aint much. Much depends on what you want your life to look like. I have long ago hit CoastFI. I am FI now outside of some kid related expenses. Im fairly young.. i think every EM doc could retire with $10m NW. my aim is $10m in liquid assets not including real estate of any sort.
 
I invest about 12K per month. I’m early in my career, and my family has been able to comfortably live on a small amount of our income. Upfront I will say that we are both very blessed to not have any debt. Obviously that will change the math for many people. We’re currently a family of four and plan to have more kids. I’m the sole breadwinner, with my wife being a full-time homemaker. Rent in a Midwest metro area is less than 2K per month. We eat healthily and have money budgeted for fun and travel. We also budget for the gym (YMCA is unbelievable value for a family, they’ll watch your kids for 2 hours while you work out, and facilites tend to be great as far as I’ve seen). Car insurance for our two vehicles is less than $600 per month with our carrier, but tbh we haven’t shopped around so you could maybe do better (though our state has notoriously high rates).
 
If you have access to a cash balance plan you can put 50-200k+ in there alone. For me I Max out all i can pretax. Set the Max and I’ll hit it. One big benefit of a unicorn gig is money is good so saving is a little easier.

Regarding the 4.5M etc.. inflation… its a bitch.. thats 4.5M in todays money which will be a lot less than 4.5m in 20 years. Even with 2.5% inflation in 20 years it aint much. Much depends on what you want your life to look like. I have long ago hit CoastFI. I am FI now outside of some kid related expenses. Im fairly young.. i think every EM doc could retire with $10m NW. my aim is $10m in liquid assets not including real estate of any sort.
Yes, I am looking into creating a cash balance plan. The more I save from uncle Sam the better.

Anyone on here have a cash balance plan? If so, what are your thoughts? I am a single member LLC and looking into doing this.
 
Solo income household, estimates for this upcoming year, about 220k in total though I don't personally count the 529s as "mine", though I'd love if the kids got scholarships:

401k: 70k
HSA: 8.5k
BDRx2: 14k
2nd 401k: 10k
Taxable: 100k
529s: 20k

Didn't hit these numbers the first 3 years out because of building up emergency savings and paying down debt (only debt is a <3% mortgage now) including no more student loans and buying a long overdue replacement family car in cash. Now everything is on autopilot and can't wait for NW to really start heading up. I'm in this for maybe 10 more years full time before Coast FIRE, if I can even make it that long.
 
I invest about 12K per month. I’m early in my career, and my family has been able to comfortably live on a small amount of our income. Upfront I will say that we are both very blessed to not have any debt. Obviously that will change the math for many people. We’re currently a family of four and plan to have more kids. I’m the sole breadwinner, with my wife being a full-time homemaker. Rent in a Midwest metro area is less than 2K per month. We eat healthily and have money budgeted for fun and travel. We also budget for the gym (YMCA is unbelievable value for a family, they’ll watch your kids for 2 hours while you work out, and facilites tend to be great as far as I’ve seen). Car insurance for our two vehicles is less than $600 per month with our carrier, but tbh we haven’t shopped around so you could maybe do better (though our state has notoriously high rates).
You should definitely shop around. I pay $975 for 6 months (full coverage, one new car and one 6 years old). But they also do my home/umbrella.

YMCA is awesome for a young family.
 
Yes, I am looking into creating a cash balance plan. The more I save from uncle Sam the better.

Anyone on here have a cash balance plan? If so, what are your thoughts? I am a single member LLC and looking into doing this.
I have one but it is part of my group. I can point you in the direction of a TPA if needed. as a single member LLC you arent quite as restricted as others. I know in my plan someone in their later 40s can put in 160k+ people in their 50s are at over 200k a year AFTER 401k/psp and other stuff. this is all gravy and IMO supercharges your move into FI. feel free to DM me and I can share some more.
 
Investing between 200-300k for the last 5 years bare minimum.

Probably invested/saved a total of 1.5M in 5 years.

Now we’re probably around 150k of investment as incomes have somewhat gone down and the need to invest has somewhat diminished as we’re coast FI.
 
Are physicians truly underpaid if most of us are able to save 100k+/yr and coast FI after working for 10 yrs?
 
Are physicians truly underpaid if most of us are able to save 100k+/yr and coast FI after working for 10 yrs?
This forum is not a good cross section of EM docs. I deal with many docs and a crazy amount have little to no idea how much they are paid. I am also unsure how many people on here think they are underpaid. I mean underpaid relative to an avg citizen, I dont think so. Underpaid compared to ortho.. i do think so..
 
Are physicians truly underpaid if most of us are able to save 100k+/yr and coast FI after working for 10 yrs?
This forum is not a good cross section of EM docs. I deal with many docs and a crazy amount have little to no idea how much they are paid. I am also unsure how many people on here think they are underpaid. I mean underpaid relative to an avg citizen, I dont think so. Underpaid compared to ortho.. i do think so..
Many in my group have minimal insight into the difference in compensation within our own group based upon productivity, let alone the differences in compensation across the EM landscape or between specialities. Notably, I have a great SDG full of intelligent individuals even if not necessarily business savvy. Not that uncommonly, the difference in compensation within a speciality based upon area/location of practice is more significant than between specialities. I’ve found that many are just not overly compensation driven or focused. That tends to be a priority of those that have a shorter shelf life in EM or a higher degree of burnout. It also tends to be more so an amplified perspective on the internet perhaps as a result of those seeking out further answers. The reality is that it’s very easy to live an upper middle class or lower upper class life as a physician in the US. This is still true as an EP. Most lack of wealth issues in this category are due to spending issues rather than earning challenges.

Truly, the REAL benefit of an EP as a physician is the compensation in relation to time spent working. Yes, the hours are chaotic and terrible. However, you really receive valuable time to spend on your other endeavors and family. Certain surgeon’s income will blow your ROI out of the water when you see their compensation on a public 990 tax form. However, they earn their keep and don’t have the time freedom you do as an EP. They continue to spend a significant higher number of hours working post-training. The highest paid EP in our SDG makes double our lowest paid partner. This is directly related to hours worked, pph, and coding.

An interesting comparison involves the early compounding financial growth that an EP can receive (even despite argument of 3 vs. 4 year residency) versus the higher, delayed annual compensation of some surgical subspecialties (with post-graduate training that can easily last 6-9 years). There is a break even point. However, I’d argue you sacrifice your 30s in those fields taking away from valuable time spent with a young family that can’t be recovered. I also think there is currently a minimal ultimate lifestyle difference between $10M and $20M at retirement. You might need to get to $100M from $10-20M to see a significant change in it really impacting your life. That isn’t accomplishable for the average or above average physician even if financially savvy. I personally struggle with the ultimate financial goal, but also appreciate the opportunities afforded to me as an EP.
 
Are physicians truly underpaid if most of us are able to save 100k+/yr and coast FI after working for 10 yrs?

Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's the norm. I'm primary earner for my family in a HCOL area and despite saving a bunch and being somewhat frugal, I will not be coast FIRE in 10 years as post training. However I am I will continue to be comfortable.

Not everyone gets their med school and down payment from daddy and has another doctor spouse in a zero tax state
 
Many in my group have minimal insight into the difference in compensation within our own group based upon productivity, let alone the differences in compensation across the EM landscape or between specialities. Notably, I have a great SDG full of intelligent individuals even if not necessarily business savvy. Not that uncommonly, the difference in compensation within a speciality based upon area/location of practice is more significant than between specialities. I’ve found that many are just not overly compensation driven or focused. That tends to be a priority of those that have a shorter shelf life in EM or a higher degree of burnout. It also tends to be more so an amplified perspective on the internet perhaps as a result of those seeking out further answers. The reality is that it’s very easy to live an upper middle class or lower upper class life as a physician in the US. This is still true as an EP. Most lack of wealth issues in this category are due to spending issues rather than earning challenges.

Truly, the REAL benefit of an EP as a physician is the compensation in relation to time spent working. Yes, the hours are chaotic and terrible. However, you really receive valuable time to spend on your other endeavors and family. Certain surgeon’s income will blow your ROI out of the water when you see their compensation on a public 990 tax form. However, they earn their keep and don’t have the time freedom you do as an EP. They continue to spend a significant higher number of hours working post-training. The highest paid EP in our SDG makes double our lowest paid partner. This is directly related to hours worked, pph, and coding.

An interesting comparison involves the early compounding financial growth that an EP can receive (even despite argument of 3 vs. 4 year residency) versus the higher, delayed annual compensation of some surgical subspecialties (with post-graduate training that can easily last 6-9 years). There is a break even point. However, I’d argue you sacrifice your 30s in those fields taking away from valuable time spent with a young family that can’t be recovered. I also think there is currently a minimal ultimate lifestyle difference between $10M and $20M at retirement. You might need to get to $100M from $10-20M to see a significant change in it really impacting your life. That isn’t accomplishable for the average or above average physician even if financially savvy. I personally struggle with the ultimate financial goal, but also appreciate the opportunities afforded to me as an EP.
Great post.. I tend to agree. I will say in my group also an SDG our top earner makes 2x the group avg and probably 3x the lowest paid doc but again this is due to RVUs, shifts worked and pph. Everyone is on the same scale and gets an equal piece.

I have certainly reached coastFI and likely true FI. I haven't thought much about how much I need for retirement because it feels so far off. I'm in my late 40s but truly still like going to work. That being said for me personally, I have released the purse strings somewhat. We spend pretty freely but there are things I would like to spend on but it just feels a little too wasteful. My best friend who is FI thru selling his business keeps telling me I should fly first class. I just cant splurge on that as while I want to I just find it too wasteful. If I have $20m in the bank I think ill feel differently as by the time I get there (if I get there) Ill be older and the runway will be shorter and my kids will be older and hopefully self reliant financially.

I do think it would be great to give each of my kids a house assuming they are doing what they need to do. A huge leg up in life. Why have a bunch of money without spending it on those you love? I don't think anyone who knows my kids thinks they are spoiled today. Some of their friends are wearing $500 shoes and fancy clothes but we still hit up target and old navy. The older kids can spend their money on luxuries.

For me the next level of money would be the ability to fly a private jet. Thats the next level of money in my mind. Its fairly pricey and makes first class tix seem cheap. Then again, to me it is the ultimate sign of a luxurious life and not something I ever thought was an option as an EM doc.

I think $20m today at age 50 would let me spend on every and anything I wanted. No, not Zuck or Elon living.. but many of those things do nothing for me. a $250m yacht is of no interest especially when operating it costs $30m a year.

I do think for some crushing it doing locums keep it up. make hay when the sun is shining. for the few of us lucky enough to be in unicorn groups, I say the same. The higher up the mountain you are the more likely you are to fall. I have long thought that my good run would slow down but my group has good leadership and good docs and things keep on trucking.
 
Truly, the REAL benefit of an EP as a physician is the compensation in relation to time spent working. Yes, the hours are chaotic and terrible. However, you really receive valuable time to spend on your other endeavors and family. Certain surgeon’s income will blow your ROI out of the water when you see their compensation on a public 990 tax form. However, they earn their keep and don’t have the time freedom you do as an EP. They continue to spend a significant higher number of hours working post-training. The highest paid EP in our SDG makes double our lowest paid partner. This is directly related to hours worked, pph, and coding.
One of the biggest benefits, at least to me, is the ability to go part time almost indefinitely and be able to cover expenses while having minimal impact to your lifestyle, travel, etc. so you never touch your next egg. That may not be interesting to someone who doesn't plan on passing down an inheritance to heirs but few other specialties give you that option.
 
Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's the norm. I'm primary earner for my family in a HCOL area and despite saving a bunch and being somewhat frugal, I will not be coast FIRE in 10 years as post training. However I am I will continue to be comfortable.

Not everyone gets their med school and down payment from daddy and has another doctor spouse in a zero tax state

Ya I live in HCOL and I can say for certain most of the physicians I know here are not saving 100k per year. The wife usually goes part time or stays at home to take care of the kids, house is 2M+, 2 cars, other expenses that are higher in HCOL. It’s impossible for them to save once you run the math.
 
Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's the norm. I'm primary earner for my family in a HCOL area and despite saving a bunch and being somewhat frugal, I will not be coast FIRE in 10 years as post training. However I am I will continue to be comfortable.

Not everyone gets their med school and down payment from daddy and has another doctor spouse in a zero tax state
You can coast FIRE by maxing out your and your spouse retirement vehicles (401k, HSA and roth) ONLY. That is 1 mil dollars after 10 yrs assuming you invest all of it in an S&P500. Your money will double every 8 yrs, so you will have ~5 mil by the time you are 65.
 
You can coast FIRE by maxing out your and your spouse retirement vehicles (401k, HSA and roth) ONLY. That is 1 mil dollars after 10 yrs assuming you invest all of it in an S&P500. Your money will double every 8 yrs, so you will have ~5 mil by the time you are 65.

Oh, I guess we are using different numbers for coastFI. I have about 1MM in investment accounts at about 8 years out. With threat of inflation and further degradation of medicine and EM specifically, I am not yet satisfied with that number.
 
Oh, I guess we are using different numbers for coastFI. I have about 1MM in investment accounts at about 8 years out. With threat of inflation and further degradation of medicine and EM specifically, I am not yet satisfied with that number.
Assuming you are ~40, you can coast FIRE. That 1 mil will be >5 mil by the time you are 65. I think we are overestimating how much we need for retirement because we are high income earners.

I just put 1 mil in a compound interest calculator and after 25 years that 1 mil will be 10 mil at a 10% return without adding anything to it.
 
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Assuming you are ~40, you can coast FIRE. That 1 nil will be ~5 mil by the time you are 65. I think we are overestimating how much we need for retirement because we are high income earners.

I just put 1 mil in a compound interest calculator and after 25 years that 1 mil will be 10 mil at a 10% return without adding anything to it.

I feel like assuming continued 10% avg return is risky. Yes we've seen tremendous growth in the S&P 500 the last 5 years but that is no guarantee to continue.

I've also seen situations w friends and family recently who need long term care after medical disasters who are getting screwed financially because insurance doesn't pay for long term care and Medicaid will seize your assets. Partially trying to hedge against that for the future.
 
This forum is not a good cross section of EM docs. I deal with many docs and a crazy amount have little to no idea how much they are paid. I am also unsure how many people on here think they are underpaid. I mean underpaid relative to an avg citizen, I dont think so. Underpaid compared to ortho.. i do think so..

Who are these people? Almost all younger ER doctors I’ve come across are very money savvy, have negotiated their incomes, and some are fairly entrepreneurial as well.

I’ve personally maybe just come across maybe one doctor in life who had no idea how much he made.
 
I feel like assuming continued 10% avg return is risky. Yes we've seen tremendous growth in the S&P 500 the last 5 years but that is no guarantee to continue.

I've also seen situations w friends and family recently who need long term care after medical disasters who are getting screwed financially because insurance doesn't pay for long term care and Medicaid will seize your assets. Partially trying to hedge against that for the future.

I personally think we’re looking at a low return decade of maybe 5-6% return over the next 10 years.

There’s going to be a massive correction sooner or later given how the US market is valued currently.
 
I feel like assuming continued 10% avg return is risky. Yes we've seen tremendous growth in the S&P 500 the last 5 years but that is no guarantee to continue.

I've also seen situations w friends and family recently who need long term care after medical disasters who are getting screwed financially because insurance doesn't pay for long term care and Medicaid will seize your assets. Partially trying to hedge against that for the future.
The average return has been ~11% for the past 40+ years. Even with 7% return, which is very conservative, you will still have 5+ mil by the time you reach 65. Of course, you won't have a lavish lifestyle with 5 mil, but you won't be eating rice & beans.

I got your point that one has to be prepared for the worst.
 
The average return has been ~11% for the past 40+ years. Even with 7% return, which is very conservative, you will still have 5+ mil by the time you reach 65. Of course, you won't have a lavish lifestyle with 5 mil, but you won't be eating rice & beans.

I got your point that one has to be prepared for the worst.

Why do you think 7% is conservative. I think it’s exceptionally ambitious to think that you’ll get a 7% return in the next decade based on where the market is .


IMG_9288.png

IMG_9289.png



We are historically at some of the highest valuations in the history of the stock market. Based on where the cape ratio sits today and where valuations sit, minimal returns are likely for the next decade. And this is based on 100 years of data.

Current cape ratio Is below


IMG_9290.png
 
An interesting comparison involves the early compounding financial growth that an EP can receive (even despite argument of 3 vs. 4 year residency) versus the higher, delayed annual compensation of some surgical subspecialties (with post-graduate training that can easily last 6-9 years). There is a break even point. However, I’d argue you sacrifice your 30s in those fields taking away from valuable time spent with a young family that can’t be recovered.
I’ve written elsewhere about this. I did 6 years, then ~2.5 years making about what an average EM doc or hospitalist does, then another 2 or so very aggressively paying off a practice buy in with minimum payments that were more than double my mortgage at double the interest rate. You could argue I was at least 5 years behind, with you folks cooking me until like PGY11. Putting away $150k a year at 10% compounding gets you to about $2M then if you started with nothing. My net worth was mostly practice equity, an emergency fund, and some maxed out retirement at that point.

But that’s when I could just start throwing everything into savings/investments. Break point was right around PGY13 for liquid since I won’t count the practice. Even if I’d gone the private equity route, that pretty much fits or might even be a year too much. All of this depends on your spending habits, risk tolerance, etc.

3 extra years of training definitely sucked. Inefficient academic and county clinics took time away from home. Call was frequent and pretty busy. Attending life is completely fine. Neurosurgery, general, and any subsequent subspecialties can have it rough. Ophtho, ENT, Uro, and even ortho can be pretty chill, although total hours and the prospect of call are more than EM. I wouldn’t say you sacrifice your 30s unless you’re a non-trad.
 
Why do you think 7% is conservative. I think it’s exceptionally ambitious to think that you’ll get a 7% return in the next decade based on where the market is .


View attachment 399038
View attachment 399039


We are historically at some of the highest valuations in the history of the stock market. Based on where the cape ratio sits today and where valuations sit, minimal returns are likely for the next decade. And this is based on 100 years of data.

Current cape ratio Is below


View attachment 399040
We will see.
 
Why do you think 7% is conservative. I think it’s exceptionally ambitious to think that you’ll get a 7% return in the next decade based on where the market is .

I 100% agree with this sentiment. The market is completely disassociated from reality in basically what has become a pyramid scheme. Historical performance of the S&P 500 gives a steady ebb and flow up until around 2014, then it has exploded far out of proportion to productivity – likely fuelled by trillions of dollars of debt being issued by world governments. Then there's $3T of crypto out there literally conjured out of thin air.

Sure looks like a bubble – but where a "safe" haven for investment might be, I'm unsure.
 
I agree that the market may not have a ton of juice.. that being said it was either 1-2 years ago that Bill Bernstein and WCI said to expect under 5% returns (or something) yet the Sp500 has given us 20+% returns the past 2 years.. Thats almost 8 years of returns based on their guess.

I say all this to say 2 things..

1) no one knows what will happen.. keep firing.. We are entering a new world.. Crypto, AI, Quantum computing, also while the US market has been on fire, international has not.. So maybe its a matter of where you put your money.. but in the end create an investment plan, stick to it and reassess infrequently. Perhaps increased productivity, less govt waste, lower taxes, higher consumer spending (all may ba pipe dream).

2) I agree with everyone on here who is bearish. It all makes no sense.. my move though.. keep loading up where I can.. the market will be higher in 15 years than it is today.. in 15 years I'm likely retired. No one can time or guess the market.
 
I agree that the market may not have a ton of juice.. that being said it was either 1-2 years ago that Bill Bernstein and WCI said to expect under 5% returns (or something) yet the Sp500 has given us 20+% returns the past 2 years.. Thats almost 8 years of returns based on their guess.

I say all this to say 2 things..

1) no one knows what will happen.. keep firing.. We are entering a new world.. Crypto, AI, Quantum computing, also while the US market has been on fire, international has not.. So maybe its a matter of where you put your money.. but in the end create an investment plan, stick to it and reassess infrequently. Perhaps increased productivity, less govt waste, lower taxes, higher consumer spending (all may ba pipe dream).

2) I agree with everyone on here who is bearish. It all makes no sense.. my move though.. keep loading up where I can.. the market will be higher in 15 years than it is today.. in 15 years I'm likely retired. No one can time or guess the market.
You can't go wrong if you load up on MAG7 and/or S&P500.

People will continue to say that while the market still going up. The US continue to be almost a sure bet when it comes to investment.
 
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