How old is too old to get a residency?

[Kson]

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I will be 40 years old by the time I am able to apply for residency.
Am I considered to be too old?

I do NOT feel old 🙂

 

[Law2Doc]

You should probably ask this on the nontrad board, you will get very different answers and answers from those with personal experience. In most fields there are older residents, and no official cutoffs. Chronological age is not as concerning as physical fitness age -- you may have to be the guy running up three flights of stairs to a code. If you can do it, you are better off than some of the 25 year olds.

 

[Winged Scapula]

As L2 D notes, chronological age isn't as important as physical and mental age.

In addition to the concerns he's raised, I'll also mention that 40 is certainly not outside the range of acceptable for most residencies but you also need to make sure that you can handle the fact that you will be older than some of your attendings. Some people have difficulties taking instructions from those they see as their junior.

 

[Law2Doc]

... but you also need to make sure that you can handle the fact that you will be older than some of your attendings. Some people have difficulties taking instructions from those they see as their junior.

To be honest I've not met many nontrads who have had issues taking instructions from younger attendings. I think this is mostly myth. Nontrads from other fields are no stranger to hierarchy and have answered to bosses of varying ages and styles. I have however seen younger attendings uncomfortable about bossing around people their parents age, which I think is where most of the friction actually lies.
(The portion of WSs post I quoted is an example of why I think topic is probably going to get somewhat different responses if you asked it on the nontrad board.)

 

[Winged Scapula]

Most? No, that's why I said " some". I've seen it especially with non-trads repeating residency in a different field or IMGs who were attendings in their country.

YMMV.

 

[Kson]

Thank you all!

I've had teachers younger than me and most of our exams are oral, so taking instructions won't be any problem 🙂
For me it's not really about the age but knowledge in that specific field. I will ask the question in the non-trad board as well.

Thanks again for al the answers!

 

[Law2Doc]

Most? No, that's why I said " some". I've seen it especially with non-trads repeating residency in a different field or IMGs who were attendings in their country.

YMMV.

I think IMGs and other residents who were previously attendings are going to feel patronized/marginalized at times regardless of the age of the person "training" them. I'd put them in a totally separate category as it's the redo aspects, not the age aspects that make things uncomfortable. They aren't older because they are nontrads. They are older because they are redoing part of the training. It's not the being older aspect that's dominant here. It's the --"there's nothing this person can teach me" aspect. The fact that it's someone younger doesn't help things, but there would be the potential for friction regardless.

 

[rkaz]

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[Houmd]

I've definitely witnessed firsthand the nontrad phenomenon that WS has pointed out.

Please, please, PLEASE do not isolate yourself via age.

The best way to look at it is this, when you're in med school your age starts over.

Within the pseudo-hierarchy of medicine it doesn't matter how old chronologically you are, but moreso how long you've been in medicine.

If you were a billionaire hedge-fund manager prior to medicine then that's outstanding for you, but in medicine we don't care about much else than what is currently in front of us.

If you see yourself by position year, pay respect to those above (and alongside) you, have a genuinely likeable personality who is not afraid of being part of a TEAM, then you will excel. This is what I tell everyone, but for some reason I have come across a few nontrads that were unable to take advice/help from fellow students or residents for what appeared to be disregard of that advice based on the fact it was coming from someone much younger.

This definitely is not the majority of non-trads but I've witnessed it firsthand with two people. They also avoided fellow students and tried to be besties with attendings (even though the attendings mistook them as annoying kiss-*** medicals students) just due to age differentials.

 

[Law2Doc]

I've definitely witnessed firsthand the nontrad phenomenon that WS has pointed out.

Please, please, PLEASE do not isolate yourself via age.

The best way to look at it is this, when you're in med school your age starts over.

Within the pseudo-hierarchy of medicine it doesn't matter how old chronologically you are, but moreso how long you've been in medicine.

If you were a billionaire hedge-fund manager prior to medicine then that's outstanding for you, but in medicine we don't care about much else than what is currently in front of us.

If you see yourself by position year, pay respect to those above (and alongside) you, have a genuinely likeable personality who is not afraid of being part of a TEAM, then you will excel. This is what I tell everyone, but for some reason I have come across a few nontrads that were unable to take advice/help from fellow students or residents for what appeared to be disregard of that advice based on the fact it was coming from someone much younger.

This definitely is not the majority of non-trads but I've witnessed it firsthand with two people. They also avoided fellow students and tried to be besties with attendings (even though the attendings mistook them as annoying kiss-*** medicals students) just due to age differentials.

Again, this is an example of why the responses will be very different on the nontrad board. It's really a matter of perspective.

I'm sure there are some arrogant nontrads. Probably the two you know. But a lot of the time nontrads just get "painted" this way by arrogant younger trads. The younger attending might believe the former hedge fund manager isn't going to listen to him, even though that's not at all the case. It can be very hard to be the "boss" as you work your way more senior, and you sometimes aren't comfortable bossing someone around who is older than your dad -- we've all been there-- its just not the way most people are brought up. Respect your elders and all that -- very hard to send a parent age person to do scut or a DRE. So a lot of the time (more than you think) this gets put on the nontrad, because its easier to be uncomfortable with the situation if you can deflect blame to the other side if the equation. ie its more palatable to think it's not that you are uncomfortable being his senior, it's that he's uncomfortable taking orders from you... Rarely the case from what I've seen. Or the trad student thinking the nontrad is trying to be besties with an attending when in fact due to their respective ages, they move in common social circles and their kids play together. What seems like kissing up in the hospital might not reflect the dynamics outside of the building. Again, I think it's very different if we are talking about people doing second residencies or doctors from overseas -- these are people who have more reason to believe they already know how to be an intern, etc, so the friction might be very different. Not what most people are talking about when we use the term "nontrad" on here. But the 40 yo former hedge fund manager is probably a lot more amenable to taking orders from the 25 year old attending than the attending is comfortable scutting him out, from what I've seen. So if there are issues (most of the time there aren't) it might not be as one sided as will inevitably be described on a Gen Res board predominantly populated with trad grads.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

To be honest I've not met many nontrads who have had issues taking instructions from younger attendings. I think this is mostly myth. Nontrads from other fields are no stranger to hierarchy and have answered to bosses of varying ages and styles. I have however seen younger attendings uncomfortable about bossing around people their parents age, which I think is where most of the friction actually lies.
(The portion of WSs post I quoted is an example of why I think topic is probably going to get somewhat different responses if you asked it on the nontrad board.)

The people I've actually seen this issue the most with is MD/PhDs. When they come back from their lab time they seem to have some issues third year and intern year, particularly dealing with scut work.

 

[cheruka]

Traditional residents are th ones who seem to have trouble with the older residents. They just dont want to spend any extra time with older folks -- somehow you are expected to know more just becaus eyou look older even though you are fresh out of med school.

 

[Law2Doc]

The people I've actually seen this issue the most with is MD/PhDs. When they come back from their lab time they seem to have some issues third year and intern year, particularly dealing with scut work.

I'm not sure the guy who took an extra year or two to get a dual degree really counts as a nontrad or older resident. The MD/PhD is very much a traditional resident in terms of experience and age. It's just a slightly longer traditional program. This person has nothing in common with the 40 yo hedge fund manager hypothetical we are tossing around. Sounds like some of the posters on here don't really have issues with older residents per se, but issues with some people doing second residencies or dual degrees -- people who often aren't that much older and often have a whole lot more in common with traditional grads than nontrads .

But anyway, to the OP -- the issue isn't age, it's with acceptance of hierarchy. If you think you are too good to be scutted, either because if an advanced degree or prior medical training. There will be issues. If your seniors lump you in with these groups, fairly or unfairly, there could be issues (although that's really on them). In reality, you probably will be fine with the chain of command -- you've probably had inexperienced or younger bosses before, and it's probably not a big deal working in that role.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

In answer to the original question-- I think in surgical fields there is a strong and obvious age bias. In a field which requires a great deal of physical stamina and personal sacrifice, as well as requires a heavy years-long investment in an individual trainee, there will be a lot of reluctance to trust that someone with a substantially shorter working life as well as a firmly established personal life will be worth it. If you start residency at 45 instead of 25, your physical reaction to stress, fatigue and giving up seeing your probably-teenaged-kids and partner who are very used to having you around will be different. And if you finish at 50 instead of 30, you've got 15 years to contribute as a working surgeon, instead of 35.

// At my former institution there was a silver-haired, mid-40s PGY-3 radiology resident who was frequently, understandably mistaken for an attending. As such his prelim reads were always taken as gospel, even though he was a pretty junior radiology resident. He never bothered to correct anyone since he got off on it, patient care be damned.

 

[VCorp]

30.

 

[Top Gun]

There is no actual age cut-off for getting a residency. In med school, I had classmates who started residency at age 46. Age really is not an issue, as long as you have the physical and mental stamina to handle the demands of a residency.