How old is TOO old?

[StanMarsh1978]

This is a tricky question. What most people don't know is that there are really 5 sets of peeps that need to be addressed when trying to get through the admissions process.

1. The admin person (aka computer cut-off to even consider your app).
2. The program director who decides to invite you for an interview.
3. Your first interviewer (usually a faculty member - PhD or MD)
4. Your second interviewer (almost all schools have 2+ interviewers) - usually a med student
5. The whole adcom (at our school it's 24 people in a room that look at your app on the overhead and for the most part take what 3 and 4 have to say as long as your numbers aren't too low)

We all see your app and if even one of us says no, the app is done with.

So in analyzing that "five-step" process, it seems likely that the appearance of "pumping" one's GPA would only become an issue beginning at stage two. The computer would likely only see the cumulative GPA. And then when decision-makers start looking at applications that survived that first cut, you would need to make a coherent, compelling case for exactly why you took those initial post-bac classes. Ideally you would take the time to hammer them into your biographical information and statements aggressively, rather than defensively. And if you're plausible, it's unlikely they'll see it as a negative.

Of course, being plausible may be tough, especially if you took geology 101 or something. Thoughts?

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[Code Brown]

So in analyzing that "five-step" process, it seems likely that the appearance of "pumping" one's GPA would only become an issue beginning at stage two. The computer would likely only see the cumulative GPA. And then when decision-makers start looking at applications that survived that first cut, you would need to make a coherent, compelling case for exactly why you took those initial post-bac classes. Ideally you would take the time to hammer them into your biographical information and statements aggressively, rather than defensively. And if you're plausible, it's unlikely they'll see it as a negative.

Of course, being plausible may be tough, especially if you took geology 101 or something. Thoughts?

Yes, this is exactly how it works (at least at our program).

 

[0Complications]

P.s. cardiology is not a surgical field. To do cardiology, you need 4 years med school, 3 years of internal medicine residency, then 3-5 years of cardiology fellowship (the 4-5 year fellowship would be if you want to be the cardiologist who puts in stents or fancy pacemakers and defibrillators).

General surgery = 4 years med school + 5-7 years residency
Surgical subspecialties = 4 years med school + 5-7 years residency + however long the fellowships is (1-3 years?)
Neurosurgery = 4 years med school + residency of 5-7 years (I think usually 6-7).

Where you have NS listed with a 6-7 year residency would that be just general NS then an addition 1-3 for fellowship in whatever specialization from your previous list? It seems a little strange that a NS residency would be the same length as a general surgery residency.

Also, to the OP, I'm 31 (as of a 2 weeks ago) and am applying to med schools this year. I am also interested in entertaining the possibility of a demanding surgical specialty, but at our age you really really have to want it (not that you don't at other ages, but if you're younger you have a larger margin for error in terms of life pursuits, commitments, etc. Not to mention the fact that you'll have less time to practice in that field than a young whippersnapper).

I'm just guessing here, but assuming you haven't done med school prerequisites that you'll be applying to med schools at ~33-34 and unless you're an old worn out 33, which it doesn't seem like you would be, then you are definitely not too old for medicine (or a demanding specialty). But if I were you, I don't think I would commit myself to following one of those more demanding specialties until you have had an adequate amount of time to assess all of your specialty options, which you should get through years 3 and 4 of med school.

Either way, age is not going to be your limiting factor.

 

[StanMarsh1978]

But if I were you, I don't think I would commit myself to following one of those more demanding specialties until you have had an adequate amount of time to assess all of your specialty options, which you should get through years 3 and 4 of med school.

Thanks--agreed entirely. I am not committing to anything right now; just asking questions. Good insight.

 

[RainerMaria]

Have a friend who got into a top 5 med school at 45 yrs old. Know which schools like age diversity, and apply to those. 30 is not too old whatsoever, but be sure to have plenty of clinical/shadowing/volunteer experience, so that this just doesn't look like a quarter/mid-life crisis. Best of luck.

 

[z3po]

It took me 5 years to force myself to settle on one career. I have many interest/talents and I bore easily. Everyone thought I would be some computer scientist, but I am also good at a lot of other things. So it took me awhile to find out what can I make a career out of..and be needed, not just an 'expert' but useful. Anyone can become something, but what is my 'niche'.

Anyway, my passion shifted from CS to Engineering, to Physics, to Neuroscience. The brain is by far the most fascinating thing and it isn't simple like a computer. However, I don't want to be a 'nutty' professor forced to educate people who may not be 'all into' it..and risk being unemployed based on published works or failed schmoozing.

I thought it may be cool to do the MSAT on med-ed.virginia.edu... and I ranked Radiologist as my top specialty based on who I am. I skipped down the list to neurosurgeon..or neurologist. Neurosurgery looks very exciting, but reality is ..well it seems it can be depressing sometimes.

Getting to the point here: I thought radiologist (silly me) just operated the Imaging equipment. I scoffed at that as a career. Until I acturally saw a video of what they actually do, and that yes they are actually Doctors..and interpreting and making diagnosis based on patient info and equipment reads. Technology/Brain/Neuro..this is what I want. Not too much life/death responsibility..but not too 'administrative'.

Im 29..and now I want the BS in Neurobiology , and Med School.. I dont care about being 43 or so by the time I am 'officially' ready to be a resident doctor or hired as a Radiologist.

Though, I am scared that when I am 34 ish in med school, are they going to be OKAY with that so long as my marks are in the top 20%?

Its a huge sacrifice ... its just even without MED school I feel old just getting a BS. I work full time and I have seriously considered planning this with my boyfriend so I can afford school.

( I am a woman and children is financially not an option, nor is it something I see myself ever wanting since Im still trying to live for myself).

 

[gman33]

It took me 5 years to force myself to settle on one career. I have many interest/talents and I bore easily. Everyone thought I would be some computer scientist, but I am also good at a lot of other things. So it took me awhile to find out what can I make a career out of..and be needed, not just an 'expert' but useful. Anyone can become something, but what is my 'niche'.

Anyway, my passion shifted from CS to Engineering, to Physics, to Neuroscience. The brain is by far the most fascinating thing and it isn't simple like a computer. However, I don't want to be a 'nutty' professor forced to educate people who may not be 'all into' it..and risk being unemployed based on published works or failed schmoozing.

I thought it may be cool to do the MSAT on med-ed.virginia.edu... and I ranked Radiologist as my top specialty based on who I am. I skipped down the list to neurosurgeon..or neurologist. Neurosurgery looks very exciting, but reality is ..well it seems it can be depressing sometimes.

Getting to the point here: I thought radiologist (silly me) just operated the Imaging equipment. I scoffed at that as a career. Until I acturally saw a video of what they actually do, and that yes they are actually Doctors..and interpreting and making diagnosis based on patient info and equipment reads. Technology/Brain/Neuro..this is what I want. Not too much life/death responsibility..but not too 'administrative'.

Im 29..and now I want the BS in Neurobiology , and Med School.. I dont care about being 43 or so by the time I am 'officially' ready to be a resident doctor or hired as a Radiologist.

Though, I am scared that when I am 34 ish in med school, are they going to be OKAY with that so long as my marks are in the top 20%?

Its a huge sacrifice ... its just even without MED school I feel old just getting a BS. I work full time and I have seriously considered planning this with my boyfriend so I can afford school.

( I am a woman and children is financially not an option, nor is it something I see myself ever wanting since Im still trying to live for myself).

Get a UG degree in something of interest; that you could actually see yourself doing as a career. Does a BS in Neurobiology actually enable you to get a job or does it just prepare you for further study?

If in 4-5 years you still want to go to med school, do that.
Most people change their mind along the way.

It is way too early to be thinking about picking a specialty.
Don't even think about that at this point.
How can you pick a career based on no experience and you didn't even know it existed until a quick internet search.

And no, you are not too old, but it's a long road. Probably 15+ years.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
Getting to the point here: I thought radiologist (silly me) just operated the Imaging equipment. I scoffed at that as a career. Until I acturally saw a video of what they actually do, and that yes they are actually Doctors..and interpreting and making diagnosis based on patient info and equipment reads. Technology/Brain/Neuro..this is what I want. Not too much life/death responsibility..but not too administrative....

I agree with the prior poster that you are too far out and too uninformed at this juncture to pick a specialty. Not only do most med students change their minds at least once, but a good percentage of the class won't get a shot at a competitive specialty. Which is why most suggest you don't go to med school if you think you could only be happy in a single, competitive specialty. Also, the quote "not too much life/death responsibility" is naive. If a radiologist misses a cancer or a nidus of infection, a patient can get sicker or die. If a radiologist calls a likely benign finding concerning, a person can needlessly go under the knife, and again could die. It's not really an accident that this field pays one of the highest malpractice premiums of nonsurgical/nonOB fields. I don't think you can take the approach that you don't want too much life/death responsibility and choose medicine as a profession. That's sort of like saying you want to be a football player but don't want the responsibility of winning or losing games.

 

[n3xa]

I agree with the prior poster that you are too far out and too uninformed at this juncture to pick a specialty. Not only do most med students change their minds at least once, but a good percentage of the class won't get a shot at a competitive specialty. Which is why most suggest you don't go to med school if you think you could only be happy in a single, competitive specialty. Also, the quote "not too much life/death responsibility" is naive. If a radiologist misses a cancer or a nidus of infection, a patient can get sicker or die. If a radiologist calls a likely benign finding concerning, a person can needlessly go under the knife, and again could die. It's not really an accident that this field pays one of the highest malpractice premiums of nonsurgical/nonOB fields. I don't think you can take the approach that you don't want too much life/death responsibility and choose medicine as a profession. That's sort of like saying you want to be a football player but don't want the responsibility of winning or losing games.

Oh God, this.

 

[MakesSense]

A little background. I'm a new member here, and it's only in the past six months that I've begun to seriously consider the possibility of medical school. I'm 30--I have a resume as a lawyer and military officer. My experiences on deployment and in criminal cases have led to a desire to bring a more concrete skill to help the needy and wounded. My stats are quite good--an undergrad GPA of about 3.7, and an SAT of 1520 (800 verbal, 720 math).

The question. Assuming a desire to pursue a high-end surgical practice (trauma surgery, neurosurgery, general surgery, cardiology, etc.), how old is too old? I understand that it's really a ten/twelve-year-plus process considering school and residency. At what point does age upon entrance to medical school begin to become a serious impediment to entry to such elite practices?

I am interested in primary care, but I have just finished my 1st semester of medical school at age 52.

 

[Helen Wheels]

I am interested in primary care, but I have just finished my 1st semester of medical school at age 52.

Rock on, MakesSense! I have one semester under my belt and am 40. I am not even the oldest in my class. There are at least two students older than me and one is in his 50's.

My age has never been an issue, either in admissions or in the first semester. I am in a DO program (the DO schools do have a tradition of accepting a fair number of nontrads).

 

[montessori2md]

Yes, this is exactly how it works (at least at our program).

I don't know that this is the case at all programs, though. Your science gpa is calculated by AAMCAS automatically, so some schools may use both cummGPA and sciGPA for cut-offs, in addition to the all important MCAT.

Post bac gpa, in a true post bac program, will not be included in AAMCAS' undergrad calculations. Regardless of whether grad gpa is considered by a school, it would be an easy thing to be rejected due to that undergrad calculation. Also, post bac programs tend to be hard to get loans for and are expensive.

Otherwise agree with age recs. you are too old only if you feel too old, or won't live long enough to become an attending.

 

[DrMidlife]

Post bac gpa, in a true post bac program, will not be included in AAMCAS' undergrad calculations.

Except that it is. Schools get a report from AMCAS, which they can use any way they want. Schools also get the raw data, which they can use any way they want (such as auto cutoffs).

Here's what the AMCAS report looks like. Cumulative undergraduate includes postbac undergrad. Again, schools can use any line they like to make decisions.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I think the poster is confusing a PB with an SMP, while they accomplish the same goals, they are not the same thing. Even a formal PB program is still undergrad work, an SMP is a masters program and is graduate work.