How realistic is EM for me?

[futdoc251989]

Step 1 score: 233
COMLEX Level 1 score: 473
Current 3rd yr DO student. Repeated 2nd year for academic failures.

Is EM attainable for me? Things I can do to improve my chances?

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[FutureDoctor5000]

Yes it is. Will have to explain the failure but you can match somewhere

 

[hungrydoc710]

Red flag app with the academic failure, but nice Step score. Should be fine.

Crush Step/Level 2 since EM notoriosly prefers those.
Get HP/Honors in your EM rotation(s) and strong letters from those preceptors as well.

 

[allin1211]

Great step1 score. Obviously you will need to address the remediation of 2nd year in your personal statement and/or interviews. But as long as you crush STEP2/COMLEX2 and get great SLOE's, youll have no problem. You will be screened out from some places just due to the filters theyll use (i.e. any remediations); but you have a solid step1 so that should get you into the door with many places. Just make sure you kill step2 and do well in your audition rotations.

 

[Goro]

Step 1 score: 233
COMLEX Level 1 score: 473
Current 3rd yr DO student. Repeated 2nd year for academic failures.

Is EM attainable for me? Things I can do to improve my chances?

I've had multiple students with academics like your match into EM.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

EM PGY4 here who is actively involved in resident recruitment for the upcoming match cycle.


This is a question better asked in the Emergency medicine subforum rather than here, and I would take the advice of the other posters in this thread with a huge grain of salt. Not to offend anyone here, but assuming you can overcome a failed academic year with a 233 Step 1 score as a DO is pretty out of touch with reality.

EM isn't the most competitive field by any means, but it's still reasonably competitive (think on par with gen surg and OBGYN) and having to remediate an entire year is a massive red flag. You have an average Step 1 score, a mediocre COMLEX 1 and as a specialty we aren't generally that impressed with spectacular board scores (especially for someone who had an entire extra year to study for Step 1 relative to their peers) and they aren't the biggest part of your application. There are other ways to beef up your application - SLOEs, Step 2, research - however your academic failure and remediation is a big hurdle to overcome and will definitely cost you in the match.

Honestly speaking - even with a strong Step 2 score and good SLOEs, you will likely have to apply very broadly to match EM, and are still at a pretty high risk of not matching. I would strongly consider dual-applying in IM or FM if I were you, even if you perform well the remainder of the year.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

EM PGY4 here who is actively involved in resident recruitment for the upcoming match cycle.


This is a question better asked in the Emergency medicine subforum rather than here, and I would take the advice of the other posters in this thread with a huge grain of salt. Not to offend anyone here, but assuming you can overcome a failed academic year with a 233 Step 1 score as a DO is pretty out of touch with reality.

EM isn't the most competitive field by any means, but it's still reasonably competitive (think on par with gen surg and OBGYN) and having to remediate an entire year is a massive red flag. You have an average Step 1 score, a mediocre COMLEX 1 and as a specialty we aren't generally that impressed with spectacular board scores (especially for someone who had an entire extra year to study for Step 1 relative to their peers) and they aren't the biggest part of your application. There are other ways to beef up your application - SLOEs, Step 2, research - however your academic failure and remediation is a big hurdle to overcome and will definitely cost you in the match.

Honestly speaking - even with a strong Step 2 score and good SLOEs, you will likely have to apply very broadly to match EM, and are still at a pretty high risk of not matching. I would strongly consider dual-applying in IM or FM if I were you, even if you perform well the remainder of the year.

while I generally agree, the sloe is very important, theres soo many former DO programs too, also according to charting outcomes, EM is less competitive then obgyn and general surgery, I mean significantly less competitive then those two. OP has a decent shot at matching tbh, but the sloe is most important, even more than a failed year or step 1. Op has shown he has overcome his academic issues by having an above average step 1 score, also no one cares about comlex, or even knows what an average comlex score is LOL...

 

[Lexdiamondz]

while I generally agree, the sloe is very important, theres soo many former DO programs too, also according to charting outcomes, EM is less competitive then obgyn and general surgery, I mean significantly less competitive then those two. OP has a decent shot at matching tbh, but the sloe is most important, even more than a failed year or step 1. Op has shown he has overcome his academic issues by having an above average step 1 score, also no one cares about comlex, or even knows what an average comlex score is LOL...

A few things.


1. Your SLOE is arguably not more important than a failed year. I have seen people with stellar sloes and solid board scores fail to match EM from MD schools because of a remediated year. The idea that you can overcome a year of failures with one letter and a decidedly average step score as a DO is naive.

2. EM is less competitive than OBGYN and Gen surg for DOs because of the number of AOA programs this is true. For MDs its around the same.

3. OP hasn't shown theyve overcome their academic issues. Their step score is average and test-taking isn't the only marker of academic performance. Never mind the fact that they had 3 years to acquire the same amount of information that everyone else has to learn by their second year and just did average.

4. Nobody in the ACGME cares about comlex, but if you're a DO hoping to match into a former AOA program then your COMLEX score probably does matter a bit, although it isnt a dealbreaking.




Again, I'm not saying OP has zero chance. But to say that they will definitely match with those stats is dumb.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

A few things.


1. Your SLOE is arguably not more important than a failed year. I have seen people with stellar sloes and solid board scores fail to match EM from MD schools because of a remediated year. The idea that you can overcome a year of failures with one letter and a decidedly average step score as a DO is naive.

2. EM is less competitive than OBGYN and Gen surg for DOs because of the number of AOA programs this is true. For MDs its around the same.

3. OP hasn't shown theyve overcome their academic issues. Their step score is average and test-taking isn't the only marker of academic performance. Never mind the fact that they had 3 years to acquire the same amount of information that everyone else has to learn by their second year and just did average.

4. Nobody in the ACGME cares about comlex, but if you're a DO hoping to match into a former AOA program then your COMLEX score probably does matter a bit, although it isnt a dealbreaking.




Again, I'm not saying OP has zero chance. But to say that they will definitely match with those stats is dumb.

I mean every other person above you including myself know of people in OP’s shoes that matched, some with failed step scores that matched EM...op may have a very good reason why they failed a year as well, no one knows the entire story. We are just saying a good sloe will let OP match. Also the average step score is a 230, so by definition a 233 is ABOVE average, no other way to put it.. it definitely means that OP has the knowledge base to succeed in residency. Also there is no such thing as a DO program, they are all acgme, so a step score>>>>>>> comlex, bet you OP is competing with a few DO’s who didn’t even take step for those former aoa programs and OP’s above average step score means a whole lot more then any comlex score(including a high one)

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Also there is no such thing as a DO program, they are all acgme, so a step score>>>>>>> comlex, bet you OP is competing with a few DO’s who didn’t even take step for those former aoa programs and OP’s above average step score means a whole lot more then any comlex score(including a high one)

Bro what? Yes there absolutely is such a thing as a “DO program” so you can stop being pedantic with the whole “they’re all ACGME.” There are like 5 former AOA EM Programs affiliated with my school and Step means pretty much nothing to them.

A failed year and a sub-500 COMLEX is going to hurt. That’s just the reality. @Lexdiamondz is 100% right here. I’m not sure MD EM is very realistic with a failed year honestly, especially seeing EM traditionally doesn’t care about Step 1 all that much.

I’m glad OP has turned things around, but we must still be realistic with the fact a failed year is going to be a big red flag to a lot of places. Having turned things around WILL help, and I too have seen people match EM with red flags like that but I also know people who didn’t.

OP I would say to maximize your chances do very well on Level 2/Step 2, apply broadly and audition very hard at former AOA programs that are known to overlook scores and academics. There are programs like that out there that will take you 100% based on your audition.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

I mean every other person above you including myself know of people in OP’s shoes that matched, some with failed step scores that matched EM...op may have a very good reason why they failed a year as well, no one knows the entire story. We are just saying a good sloe will let OP match. Also the average step score is a 230, so by definition a 233 is ABOVE average, no other way to put it.. it definitely means that OP has the knowledge base to succeed in residency. Also there is no such thing as a DO program, they are all acgme, so a step score>>>>>>> comlex, bet you OP is competing with a few DO’s who didn’t even take step for those former aoa programs and OP’s above average step score means a whole lot more then any comlex score(including a high one)

And I actually matched the specialty in question, and I’m actively involved in reviewing apps and ranking applicants. So yeah.

Look, if you don’t think a failed year in a specialty with a 233 average step score and a single digit SOAP rate is a red flag that can sink an application then jokes on you buddy.



Look - this question is better fielded in a sub specialty forum where actual informed people can answer with some credibility what OPs chances are.

Also the average score is a 233.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

And I actually matched the specialty in question, and I’m actively involved in reviewing apps and ranking applicants. So yeah.

Look, if you don’t think a failed year in a specialty with a 233 average step score and a single digit SOAP rate is a red flag that can sink an application then jokes on you buddy.



Look - this question is better fielded in a sub specialty forum where actual informed people can answer with some credibility what OPs chances are.

Also the average score is a 233.

About the average, my actual score report on my actual step exam from jujy 2020, says the average is 230, so I am going to believe that lol

 

[Lexdiamondz]

About the average, my actual score report on my actual step exam from jujy 2020, says the average is 230, so I am going to believe that lol

The EM average step score in 233.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Reading comprehension is not a strong characteristic of many DO students

Even by your very own post, OP has a 233, which is indeed above average for DO’s for EM, since that average is a 228. The average step score for all takers regardless of specialty is a 230, that’s what I was referring to earlier. Also NO one is saying that OP is going to waltz into Hopkins EM, em has many many programs even MD community programs along with former aoa programs, depending on OP’s sloe, plus an above average step score for DO’s for EM, I would say op has a better than decent shot. A failed year will have to be explained thoughly but no one knows the exact circumstances behind that, a failed year due to simply slacking off/partying is way different then a failed year due to a medical issue, death in family, depression etc. if he can explain it, it can be overlooked by programs. Obviously, he/she needs to apply to many programs (75-100)and do several aways(both md and former aoa), and do really well on step2/level 2, with all that and a decent sloe op should have no issues matching though, it will come down to application strategy, those that don’t match EM usually have terrible step 2/ sloes and poor application strategy overall that does them in.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Even by your very own post, OP has a 233, which is indeed above average for DO’s for EM, since that average is a 228. The average step score for all takers regardless of specialty is a 230, that’s what I was referring to earlier. Also NO one is saying that OP is going to waltz into Hopkins EM, em has many many programs even MD community programs along with former aoa programs, depending on OP’s sloe, plus an above average step score for DO’s for EM, I would say op has a better than decent shot. A failed year will have to be explained thoughly but no one knows the exact circumstances behind that, a failed year due to simply slacking off/partying is way different then a failed year due to a medical issue, death in family, depression etc. if he can explain it, it can be overlooked by programs. Obviously, he/she needs to apply to many programs (75-100)and do several aways(both md and former aoa), and do really well on step2/level 2, with all that and a decent sloe op should have no issues matching though, it will come down to application strategy, those that don’t match EM usually have terrible step 2/ sloes and poor application strategy overall that does them in.

I think you're seriously underestimating how a failed academic year looks to programme directors, and you're making a bunch of statements qualifying OPs chances with essentially zero first hand experience either as an applicant or as someone involved in residency recruitment.


OP has a chance at EM. That being said, saying they have "more than a decent shot" is utterly ridiculous. On your side as a student, there's very little data that objectively tracks applicants who had to remediate a year. From my experience, a failed year usually results in an application going into the bin (unless there is a very, very compelling reason why the applicant failed). The general consensus in the EM forum is more or less the same Repeating 2nd year in DO school, what are my chances for EM?


I really don't think you (or anyone else in this thread really) can answer with any validity what OPs chances are. Like I said previously - this question is better answered in the EM forum where there are PDs and APDs who can give a more complete and nuanced answer to this question. A med student (particularly one who hasn't been through the match and hasn't applied this particular specialty) giving advice on this is just silly. You literally have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Even by your very own post, OP has a 233, which is indeed above average for DO’s for EM, since that average is a 228. The average step score for all takers regardless of specialty is a 230, that’s what I was referring to earlier. Also NO one is saying that OP is going to waltz into Hopkins EM, em has many many programs even MD community programs along with former aoa programs, depending on OP’s sloe, plus an above average step score for DO’s for EM, I would say op has a better than decent shot. A failed year will have to be explained thoughly but no one knows the exact circumstances behind that, a failed year due to simply slacking off/partying is way different then a failed year due to a medical issue, death in family, depression etc. if he can explain it, it can be overlooked by programs. Obviously, he/she needs to apply to many programs (75-100)and do several aways(both md and former aoa), and do really well on step2/level 2, with all that and a decent sloe op should have no issues matching though, it will come down to application strategy, those that don’t match EM usually have terrible step 2/ sloes and poor application strategy overall that does them in.

Only on sdn will someone with superficial knowledge of a subject try to refute an expert and then double down on their faulty assertions.

I think you're seriously underestimating how a failed academic year looks to programme directors, and you're making a bunch of statements qualifying OPs chances with essentially zero first hand experience either as an applicant or as someone involved in residency recruitment.


OP has a chance at EM. That being said, saying they have "more than a decent shot" is utterly ridiculous. On your side as a student, there's very little data that objectively tracks applicants who had to remediate a year. From my experience, a failed year usually results in an application going into the bin (unless there is a very, very compelling reason why the applicant failed). The general consensus in the EM forum is more or less the same Repeating 2nd year in DO school, what are my chances for EM?


I really don't think you (or anyone else in this thread really) can answer with any validity what OPs chances are. Like I said previously - this question is better answered in the EM forum where there are PDs and APDs who can give a more complete and nuanced answer to this question. A med student (particularly one who hasn't been through the match and hasn't applied this particular specialty) giving advice on this is just silly. You literally have no idea what you're talking about.

Worse yet, the poster in that thread you linked above failed to match EM and SOAPed to FM despite supposedly rocking multiple auditions. Granted, that poster had step scores in the 210-220 range, but that was also pre-merger so there were protected spots for DOs then. Sucks. This process is brutal.