How respected are clinical pharmacists?

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StriveForGlory

StriveForGlory

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I am always discouraged by stories of pharmacists just getting ignored by doctors who think they know everything and go against the pharmacists better judgment. And whats worse the pharmacists always seem to shrug their heads and say "well I told him, at least im covered."

I dont want to come out of intense schooling for four years, give someone my medical opinion, have it ignored, and be satisfied knowing that at least I wont get sued. I have too much of an ego for that. Especially knowing that I am smart enough to go to medical school.

So here is my question: How respected are hospital clinical pharmacists? I know that sometimes in retail you can have doctors ignoring your opinion, but is it different when you work on the floor with them? Or if you are specialized?

Ive heard specialized pharmacists are pretty respected by doctors and do make decisions (rather than suggestions) about patient care.

What has your experience been in these types of environments?

Im asking about clinical work because thats the type of work I am interested in getting into.
 
StriveForGlory said:
I am always discouraged by stories of pharmacists just getting ignored by doctors who think they know everything and go against the pharmacists better judgment. And whats worse the pharmacists always seem to shrug their heads and say "well I told him, at least im covered."

I dont want to come out of intense schooling for four years, give someone my medical opinion, have it ignored, and be satisfied knowing that at least I wont get sued. I have too much of an ego for that. Especially knowing that I am smart enough to go to medical school.

So here is my question: How respected are hospital clinical pharmacists? I know that sometimes in retail you can have doctors ignoring your opinion, but is it different when you work on the floor with them? Or if you are specialized?

Ive heard specialized pharmacists are pretty respected by doctors and do make decisions (rather than suggestions) about patient care.

What has your experience been in these types of environments?

Im asking about clinical work because thats the type of work I am interested in getting into.
Click to expand...

I've heard only a little about this, so I can't say much. From listening to clinical pharmacists talk at school, they say that some doctors are willing to work with them most of the time, while others are not (usually ones who have been out of school for a while). Those older doctors are not used to having a pharmacist around, so it may take them some time until they're willing to trust the pharmacist with more stuff.

The same clinical pharmacists also say that some doctors they work with will go with whatever recommendation the pharmacist makes without questioning anything. Other doctors will ask questions about what the pharmacist is recommending before making a decision.
 
StriveForGlory said:
I am always discouraged by stories of pharmacists just getting ignored by doctors who think they know everything and go against the pharmacists better judgment. And whats worse the pharmacists always seem to shrug their heads and say "well I told him, at least im covered."

I dont want to come out of intense schooling for four years, give someone my medical opinion, have it ignored, and be satisfied knowing that at least I wont get sued. I have too much of an ego for that. Especially knowing that I am smart enough to go to medical school.

So here is my question: How respected are hospital clinical pharmacists? I know that sometimes in retail you can have doctors ignoring your opinion, but is it different when you work on the floor with them? Or if you are specialized?

Ive heard specialized pharmacists are pretty respected by doctors and do make decisions (rather than suggestions) about patient care.

What has your experience been in these types of environments?

Im asking about clinical work because thats the type of work I am interested in getting into.
Click to expand...

Figure out a way to focus on patient care...and not your ego. You do that, and the physicians will follow suit.
 
Crazybob pretty much hit it dead on. It really depends on the physician. During my P4 rotations I noticed that the younger docs would listen to the clinical pharmacists and would often ask them questions. Some of the older physicians were the exact opposite and wanted nothing to do with a pharmacist's opinion. I was on the floor with my preceptor at a small hospital when my preceptor asked about vanc dosing for a patient. The trough was way high and the patient's renal function sucked. My preceptor asked the physician if he wanted some help dosing the patient's vanc. The doc said "no, i've got it." and that was that. The guy acted like a total prick, and I say this based on multiple encounters with this physician. Sometime after that, I went on rounds with a ICU physician. That guy told me that physicians have no business dosing a pt's antibiotics. He blamed the fact that so many patients get pushed into full blown renal failure in the hospital because of physicians dosing antibiotics. He went on to tell me that clinical pharmacists are the backbone of the hospital. I didn't even mention the prick physician that I met. I don't necessarily agree on the "backbone of the hospital statement" but I'm thinking a pharmacist saved his ass a few times. So yeah, it basically depends on the physician and the reputation you create for yourself. They will also respect you more if you don't embarrass them. If something is wrong, pull them off to the side to talk about it.
 
nursing is the backbone of hospital. dont you forget it.
 
StriveForGlory said:
I dont want to come out of intense schooling for four years, give someone my medical opinion, have it ignored, and be satisfied knowing that at least I wont get sued. I have too much of an ego for that. Especially knowing that I am smart enough to go to medical school.
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I predict big problems in your future. Good luck....you will need it.
 
nobody gives a shiet about u whether u r a staff or clinical pharmacist. Md have the final saying ... Period . Rn are a bunch of slaves who would pick on u
with jealous eyes since to them you r a bunch of useless and slow ******s
who can't even bring the meds up quickly enough and get paid ridiculously
high!
 
Its Z said:
nursing is the backbone of hospital. dont you forget it.
Click to expand...

I know, I'm just quoting this physician I met last October. He had a very high opinion of clinical pharmacy. I even said I didn't necessarily agree with him. The only issue I have with clinical pharmacy is that it is a luxury in the hospital setting. A hospital can get along without it. Sure, documenting interventions and cost savings may justify it, but the bottom line is that clinical pharmacists aren't necessary. The only staff that are truly necessary are the physicians and nurses. And staff pharmacists. So yes, I agree with you, that the nurses are really the backbone of hospital.
 
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rxforlife2004 said:
nobody gives a shiet about u whether u r a staff or clinical pharmacist. Md have the final saying ... Period . Rn are a bunch of slaves who would pick on u
with jealous eyes since to them you r a bunch of useless and slow ******s
who can't even bring the meds up quickly enough and get paid ridiculously
high!
Click to expand...

Hence why I don't like too many nurses I've met. Too many of them think they know everything. I like the dumb hot ones though. I think that's what I'm missing from my life right now. A dumb, hot nurse that can give me sponge baths all the time. I know that's a terrible comment. No one has to tell me.
 
GamecockPharmD said:
A dumb, hot nurse that can give me sponge baths all the time. I know that's a terrible comment. No one has to tell me.
Click to expand...

😱
I thought I was the only one that had my mind in the gutter! You totally need to be hosed down...:laugh:
 
From what I've seen at hospitals, the hot nurse thing is a MYTH. All the nurses I've seen at the hospital on my rotations have been generally overweight middle aged women.

The PA students and Nutrition students on the other hand....

horseman.gif
 
my friend, who's a med resident gets super annoyed at most of the nurses, especially the ones who apparently page him with stupid questions and think they know everything. but he also gets annoyed at the staff pharmacists, who also page him incessantly.

however my other friend who's still a med student, says most of the people he works with have a high opinion of the clinical pharmacists. in his words, "they're way better than the nurses".

this is all in california, btw.
 
patient: (at bed side) thank you very much for your help as well as explaining what and why I am taking these medication.

(pt looks a little closer at the name badge)

Patient: you are NOT a doctor? ( patient dosent want to listen to anything anymore after this point)

Clinical Pharmacist: uh..uh...f*ck!

This sort of things happens to NPs and PAs as well but patients don't care much since they are aware that they practice in these settings. Clinical pharmacists is a relatively new concept. I think it will take a while till it takes full hold. At the moment, the occasional awkward moments ensues...

The older MDs is another story, somehow they feel very threatened or their intelligence challenged. Change does not come easy.
 
Ditto on the Nutrition majors Sparda. Who knew so many great looking Asian women were also Nutrition majors?

To the OP: I think the best thing I've read on SDN regarding respect is that ultimately respect is earned, not given. If you're a good clinical pharmacist who makes good suggestions/good insight, Doctors will listen to you. If you don't, *shrug*
 
Sparda29 said:
From what I've seen at hospitals, the hot nurse thing is a MYTH. All the nurses I've seen at the hospital on my rotations have been generally overweight middle aged women.

The PA students and Nutrition students on the other hand....

horseman.gif
Click to expand...

Even in NICU/Peds/PICU? Those floors seem to have the cute nurses 😍

Also, from the limited exposure I have had seeing the clinical pharmacists I work with talk to doctors, it seems that the majority listen to the pharmacists so long as they offer guidance/advice but do not try to tell the doctor what to do. Some doctors/nurses go so far as to refuse to talk to any pharmacist besides their beloved floor pharmacist. If you are knowledgeable and respectful, your advice will be taken into account and respected in return.
 
Everyone's practice is different. It's up to you to build rapport and gain respect for your recommendations.
 
In my experience, the older attending physicians know and appreciate the pharmacist a lot more than these young hot shot residents. Although sometimes, a doctor completely going by your word can be annoying. One time I was on the floor just reading some charts to choose for a case, and then a doctor found me, gave me some fresh charts and asked for recommendations on those. After he realized that I'm an intern and not a pharmacist yet, he gave me like 45 minutes to come up with the recommendations for those charts (instead of wanting them right then).

The part that surprised me was that after I gave the recommendations, he did not ask any questions about why or the reasoning I used and whatnot, I saw him just copy whatever I wrote right into the medication order sheet. Especially surprised me since the preceptor was not there with me.
 
Sparda29 said:
In my experience, the older attending physicians know and appreciate the pharmacist a lot more than these young hot shot residents. Although sometimes, a doctor completely going by your word can be annoying. One time I was on the floor just reading some charts to choose for a case, and then a doctor found me, gave me some fresh charts and asked for recommendations on those. After he realized that I'm an intern and not a pharmacist yet, he gave me like 45 minutes to come up with the recommendations for those charts (instead of wanting them right then).

The part that surprised me was that after I gave the recommendations, he did not ask any questions about why or the reasoning I used and whatnot, I saw him just copy whatever I wrote right into the medication order sheet. Especially surprised me since the preceptor was not there with me.
Click to expand...

You just project awesomeness, the doctors can sense your superiority.
 
Sparda29 said:
In my experience, the older attending physicians know and appreciate the pharmacist a lot more than these young hot shot residents. Although sometimes, a doctor completely going by your word can be annoying. One time I was on the floor just reading some charts to choose for a case, and then a doctor found me, gave me some fresh charts and asked for recommendations on those. After he realized that I'm an intern and not a pharmacist yet, he gave me like 45 minutes to come up with the recommendations for those charts (instead of wanting them right then).

The part that surprised me was that after I gave the recommendations, he did not ask any questions about why or the reasoning I used and whatnot, I saw him just copy whatever I wrote right into the medication order sheet. Especially surprised me since the preceptor was not there with me.
Click to expand...

Terrifying...
 
Sparda29 said:
In my experience, the older attending physicians know and appreciate the pharmacist a lot more than these young hot shot residents. Although sometimes, a doctor completely going by your word can be annoying. One time I was on the floor just reading some charts to choose for a case, and then a doctor found me, gave me some fresh charts and asked for recommendations on those. After he realized that I'm an intern and not a pharmacist yet, he gave me like 45 minutes to come up with the recommendations for those charts (instead of wanting them right then).

The part that surprised me was that after I gave the recommendations, he did not ask any questions about why or the reasoning I used and whatnot, I saw him just copy whatever I wrote right into the medication order sheet. Especially surprised me since the preceptor was not there with me.
Click to expand...

i saw a surgeon say, "listen you are cleary very well read and know what you are talking about. if you see anything with the drugs that needs to be changed, just write it down in the chart, call me, and i will go and sign off on the orders"
 
StriveForGlory said:
I dont want to come out of intense schooling for four years, give someone my medical opinion, have it ignored, and be satisfied knowing that at least I wont get sued. I have too much of an ego for that. Especially knowing that I am smart enough to go to medical school.
Click to expand...

Do medicine if you have a big ego. Or Big Law.

Not that there aren't big egos in pharmacy or nursing. But it's a different kind of ego though, less natural and more self-rationalized (like those pharmacists who request to be called doctors). The MD doesn't have to go through that kind of self-torment, he just follows his roles.
 
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I agree with the general sentiment that the respect you receive is reflective of how good you do your job and how well you work with others (which goes for any job, not just pharmacy). With the experience I have had so far (2 years residency on the West Coast at a academic teaching hospital), I have generally found that most physicians have been very welcoming of recommendations and many will be willing to let you lead certain aspects of patient care (antibiotic dosing, TPN, drug monitoring, etc.). There are always going to be a few physicians that are not as pleasant to work with and may not respect what you do, but it seems to me that they don't want input from anybody else, not just clinical pharmacy. I have definitely felt that this is the minority and have had great experiences overall as a clinical pharmacist thus far.
When I have spoken with medical residents and physicians about their experience with clinical pharmacy and what they think about us as a profession, I have gotten mostly great feedback about our knowledge base, and our impact on patient care. The negative comments I have heard have been related to some clinical pharmacists being "egotistical" and trying to make things "black and white", which health care rarely is. I think the bottom line is that patient care should be team-based and while pharmacists play an integral, unique role on that team, other professions bring a unique aspect as well.
 
Its very physician dependent. Some have no problem with pharmacists, some don't like them much, but will listen if its important, some can't stand being questioned by anyone. I find that if you ask them rather than tell them what you think they should change most will be receptive. Get your point out as quick as you can and make it as easy for them as possible. Eventually they will come to be more receptive. You also can't take any sh** from them either. That's where so many pharmacists/nurses go wrong. If you let them treat you like you are worthless, you are just supporting their overblown egos. Single discipline healthcare is dangerous for patients. Its really not hard to prove that point.
 
If your going into pharmacy, check your ego at the door.

As far as your question, "How respected are clinical pharmacists?" Well, like anything else, depends on the pharmacist in question. Just like anything else, there are good ones, and plenty of bad ones. I feel very respected on rounds by the attendings, I really don't care what the residents think of me honestly, but I try to help them as much as I can.

I dont want to come out of intense schooling for four years, give someone my medical opinion, have it ignored, and be satisfied knowing that at least I wont get sued. I have too much of an ego for that. Especially knowing that I am smart enough to go to medical school.
Click to expand...

I've dealt with plenty of doctors, pharmacists, nurses, car salesmen, garbage men, etc., and many other people with your exact attitude.

It doesn't earn you respect.
 
I have too much of an ego for that. Especially knowing that I am smart enough to go to medical school.
Click to expand...

This is so lame it approaches troll territory.
 
StriveForGlory said:
I am always discouraged by stories of pharmacists just getting ignored by doctors who think they know everything and go against the pharmacists better judgment. And whats worse the pharmacists always seem to shrug their heads and say "well I told him, at least im covered."

I dont want to come out of intense schooling for four years, give someone my medical opinion, have it ignored, and be satisfied knowing that at least I wont get sued. I have too much of an ego for that. Especially knowing that I am smart enough to go to medical school.

So here is my question: How respected are hospital clinical pharmacists? I know that sometimes in retail you can have doctors ignoring your opinion, but is it different when you work on the floor with them? Or if you are specialized?

Ive heard specialized pharmacists are pretty respected by doctors and do make decisions (rather than suggestions) about patient care.

What has your experience been in these types of environments?

Im asking about clinical work because thats the type of work I am interested in getting into.
Click to expand...

Get the f* out of pharmacy as soon as possible if you think pharmacy will bring u all the respect. I mean it. The truth is nobody gives a shiet about u.
The LVN who has 8 month of vocational school can yell at you for missing meds, or delayed meds...RN do not care if you make mistakes...etc...In retail settings, patients treat you like dirt and doesn't care if you have to double check for drug interaction and call MD to alter other meds.....
 
rxforlife2004 said:
Get the f* out of pharmacy as soon as possible if you think pharmacy will bring u all the respect. I mean it. The truth is nobody gives a shiet about u.
The LVN who has 8 month of vocational school can yell at you for missing meds, or delayed meds...RN do not care if you make mistakes...etc...In retail settings, patients treat you like dirt and doesn't care if you have to double check for drug interaction and call MD to alter other meds.....
Click to expand...

lol, i used to hate your posts... now i can't help but laugh when i read them.
 
rxforlife2004 said:
Get the f* out of pharmacy as soon as possible if you think pharmacy will bring u all the respect. I mean it. The truth is nobody gives a shiet about u.
The LVN who has 8 month of vocational school can yell at you for missing meds, or delayed meds...RN do not care if you make mistakes...etc...In retail settings, patients treat you like dirt and doesn't care if you have to double check for drug interaction and call MD to alter other meds.....
Click to expand...

fact is nobody has respect anymore. physicians also encounter this as well. those same patients **** all over their physician. the nurses get away with murder due to nursing unions in the hospital and the female support network.

this is the reality. you wont get respect in healthcare.
 
You all are fools here. I'm a hospital pharmacist, and I can tell you that hospital (staff or clinical) pharmacy is anything but respect. Pharmacists are definitely less respected than doctors, midlevels or nurses. It blows my mind that every now and then somebody starts a thread about pharmacy respect, and how many people do actually care about it. What a bunch of shallow and insecure people.
 
konkan said:
You all are fools here. I'm a hospital pharmacist, and I can tell you that hospital (staff or clinical) pharmacy is anything but respect. Pharmacists are definitely less respected than doctors, midlevels or nurses. It blows my mind that every now and then somebody starts a thread about pharmacy respect, and how many people do actually care about it. What a bunch of shallow and insecure people.
Click to expand...

like i said, people dont respect anyone. everyone just wants their demands met including nurses with their vocational education (sorry it is true).

this about retail pharmacy. people dont care about counseling and all that other jazz, they just want their demands met and that's it.
 
Thumper17 said:
Even in NICU/Peds/PICU? Those floors seem to have the cute nurses 😍

Also, from the limited exposure I have had seeing the clinical pharmacists I work with talk to doctors, it seems that the majority listen to the pharmacists so long as they offer guidance/advice but do not try to tell the doctor what to do. Some doctors/nurses go so far as to refuse to talk to any pharmacist besides their beloved floor pharmacist. If you are knowledgeable and respectful, your advice will be taken into account and respected in return.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the hospital I'm at has only geriatrics.
 
Respect is mutual...I don't know about respect for other people, but i am sure i respect the naked korean massage girl than the constipated ICU nurse...One gives me pleasure, one just keeps pissing me off
 
No one has respected any one group of people in the US since the 1960s. Call it a national civic breakdown.

I don't respect the lazy DMV worker, and she doesn't respect me.

Pharmacists don't respect doctors, why should they demand respect from doctors?

If you're going into any career "for the respect," you're that sucker that is born every minute.
 
No one really respects anyone else's profession nowadays. We all complain about customers demanding that prescriptions be ready in 15 minutes.

Yesterday, I found myself to be one of those ******* customers (not in the pharmacy). I went to Men's Wearhouse last night to buy a suit. The event I need the suit for is tomorrow night (picking it up in a few hours). So basically, I'm pushing the tailor to have my suit ready within 24 hours even though there are probably a lot of people ahead of me.
 
vancouvergeorge said:
No one has respected any one group of people in the US since the 1960s. Call it a national civic breakdown.

I don't respect the lazy DMV worker, and she doesn't respect me.

Pharmacists don't respect doctors, why should they demand respect from doctors?

If you're going into any career "for the respect," you're that sucker that is born every minute.
Click to expand...

I think pharmacists typically respect doctors. I think being a physician is about the only profession most people, including the general public, do respect. Some nurses tend to think they exhibit some god-like aura as well. I could care less, I didn't go into pharmacy for respect. It would be nice to get a little respect every once in a while. However, the general public treats pharmacists like ****. That's how it is the United States at least. I've heard about pharmacists being revered in other countries. And other healthcare professionals think we are useless. No biggie though.
 
You wanna know which pharmacists are respected? The military and public health service pharmacists. When you're dressed like this guy, men are gonna look up to you and women are gonna be flocking you.

images

imgres
 
who gives a chit about being respected.....you wanna be repected then become a rocket scientist or brain surgeon. i dont really care if im respected...as long as im not disrepected.
 
and forget about all that superficial crap at work. just shut up and do ur job and do it better than others and quit whining.
 
only insecure girls ask "will he respect me in the morning" questions.
 
i dont understand the question.

are u buying 5D MKII?
 
Its Z said:
i dont understand the question.

are u buying 5D MKII?
Click to expand...

I decided to wait...there's no doubt I'm going to upgrade in next year or so. Just not sure if it'll be the MKII...or whatever comes next? There's a lot of features on the 7D that are pretty sweet, and would be excited to see on the next FF body. I'm in no super rush.

I'll be buying the 24-70 f/2.8L and 16-35 f/2.8L as well.
 
im not sure they can add the frames per sec like 7d to a FF but the focusing would be sweet. i decided against video fxn...so will go with 50D and keep using 5D.
 
1D MK IV would be the ideal body for outdoors for me tho.
 
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