How screwed is my friend?

[atomi]

white knighting for drunk drivers on an online forum ain’t it.

Had to go back to edit your post and get in another zinger of a strawman?

I know of a guy who drives drunk and actually tries to defend it. He told me it was fine to drink 6 beers because he doesn’t “feel” drunk and he only takes a cab when he “feels drunk” I called him on it and I certainly don’t “white knight” people like this. Stop misrepresenting my position.

It’s not surprising that you lost a friend to a drunk driver. Most people with such vehement reactions and complete refusal to objectively look at the crime tend to be rooted in something personal like this. I’d put myself in your shoes and say hey, it’d probably be hard for me to be objective too. But that doesn’t mean it’s ok or just.

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[deleted962973]

It’s pretty telling that between someone who lost a friend to a drunk driver vs an actual drunk driver, you’ll still act as though the one receiving consequences for his poor decisions is the real victim.

Nothing about my reaction is vehement. All I said was that I don’t feel sympathy for the OPs friend, but if he improves himself, it shouldn’t keep him out of med school if he applies in a few years.

You’re the one who came in with the incredibly hot take that drinking any alcohol whatsoever is just as bad as drinking and driving. Fam, I’m sorry about your past DUIs, but I just don’t care.

Anyway, I'm done here.

Happy new year y’all! Drink responsibly

 

[atomi]

Anyone who uses alcohol as an excuse to justify violent or reckless behavior is covering for themselves. If you beat your wife, drive drunk, get in a fight, etc, while drunk, these shady characteristics don't just go away when you're sober. What's that quote, "a drunk man's words are a sober man's thoughts"? So yeah, given that I'm a generally amiable and easygoing person sober, I'm pretty sure I'll never turn into the kind of person who willfully harms other people while drunk. Maybe if I stumbled out a window and fell on someone, sure, but that's quite different than willfully and consciously getting behind the wheel of a car, picking a fight, etc.

Your logic sucks. When you get drunk and beat your wife or a stranger, you are making an active decision to harm somebody. When you try to drive a car or ride a bike in traffic or stumble down the sidewalk, you’re not trying to hurt anybody, you’re just trying to mind your business and go home. Maybe you are trying to have fun and attach a sled to a 4 wheeler and tow your buddies around in the parking lot (seen it). Any of these things can result in physical harm that you never intended because you were a drunk idiot. Not because you were a violent drunk who was actively trying to hurt people.

It’s clear that can’t see the difference and don’t care to.

Also LOL if you think there’s much difference between a 22 year old and an 18 year old. A 22 year old is still a kid, especially in our society. Brains aren’t fully developed until 25 and mist people don’t start getting their **** together until 30 or so.

Sounds like you’ve still got some growing up to do. Getting old sucks, but at least it gives you some perspective. I remember when I thought I had it all figured out too and was all grown up. Wrong.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

When you get drunk and beat your wife or a stranger, you are making an active decision to harm somebody. When you try to drive a car or ride a bike in traffic or stumble down the sidewalk, you’re not trying to hurt anybody, you’re just trying to mind your business and go home. Maybe you are trying to have fun and attach a sled to a 4 wheeler and tow your buddies around in the parking lot (seen it). Any of these things can result in physical harm that you never intended because you were a drunk idiot. Not because you were a violent drunk who was actively trying to hurt people.

It’s clear that can’t see the difference and don’t care to.

Lol this might be one of the most *****ic argument's I've seen in a very long time. You keep saying that "you want to ruin OPs future." Guess what, OP did that themselves. Actions have consequences. No a single DUI shouldn't preclude someone from medical school, however there needs to be YEARS between the DUI and the application. This person should not be going to medical school anytime soon.

 

[atomi]

The best part is, I never even said I wanted to ruin OPs future.. I said he can show growth and try applying later ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

According to atomi, this is some kind of unreasonable, frothing-at-the-mouth reaction

Comment in question was “I hope his chances are shot” while providing no useful advice to op.

You’re the one who came in with the incredibly hot take that drinking any alcohol whatsoever is just as bad as drinking and driving. Fam, I’m sorry about your past DUIs, but I just don’t care.

Must be running pretty low on straw at this point. Again never said that or really anything even close to that. My points are:

1. Drinking and driving is not automatically the same level of crime as serial pre-meditated baby murder.
2. The dangers of extreme drunkenness in and of itself are underplayed. Ie there is this idea you can get responsibly blackout drunk.

Call me crazy.

I don’t care if you drink, and I still drink too and try not to over do it. However I recognize that getting drunk is dangerous. And while I have never had a dui, I have definitely put myself in situations with alcohol where harm could have resulted. Anyone who thinks they can get extremely intoxicated safely is delusional.

 

[Goro]

Must be running pretty low on straw at this point.

 

[puahate]

Atomi, thoughts on the costal elites?

 

[altblue]

Your logic sucks. When you get drunk and beat your wife or a stranger, you are making an active decision to harm somebody. When you try to drive a car or ride a bike in traffic or stumble down the sidewalk, you’re not trying to hurt anybody, you’re just trying to mind your business and go home. Maybe you are trying to have fun and attach a sled to a 4 wheeler and tow your buddies around in the parking lot (seen it). Any of these things can result in physical harm that you never intended because you were a drunk idiot. Not because you were a violent drunk who was actively trying to hurt people.

It’s clear that can’t see the difference and don’t care to.

Also LOL if you think there’s much difference between a 22 year old and an 18 year old. A 22 year old is still a kid, especially in our society. Brains aren’t fully developed until 25 and mist people don’t start getting their **** together until 30 or so.

Sounds like you’ve still got some growing up to do. Getting old sucks, but at least it gives you some perspective. I remember when I thought I had it all figured out too and was all grown up. Wrong.

Yes, it isn't equivalent to baby murder or any of the other topics you're contrasting it with. But a lesser offense is still an offense.

The issue is that driving drunk drastically increases the chances of injuring someone innocent yet is within your agency not to dk. You don't have to do it, but you nonetheless make the active choice to elevate the risk of severe injury or death to others. There is no moral justification for this other than "**** it, I gotta get home". Sure maybe one would be fine, but on a systemic scale with tens of thousands making the decision to drive drunk, people get injured. People die.

Going off general knowlegle but the kind of person to operate a vehicle under the influence may have a number of issues, like a propensitiy to take dangerous risks or to disregard the well being of others. Now that could be problematic.

 

[DrMcCoyDO]

Drunk people by definition can’t make good decisions.

I went to my work Christmas party with my wife a couple weeks ago and got hammered. You know what we did before hand? We planned for a way home afterwards, so we wouldn’t drink and drive. Drunk people often can’t make good decisions; even somewhat responsible people (and believe me, I am nowhere close to a super responsible person) think ahead and make sure they have a plan when they’re sober.

 

[RNtoMD87]

I want to go against the grain speaking merely on the morality of this issue. Playing devils advocate (Personally I hate drunk drivers. Personal experiences)

If drunk driving makes someone not a moral person, would not people who text and drive be equally bad? I think I trust drunk drivers more than I do texters, because at least they are LOOKING. And the amount of *****S texting and driving is so high. At least 1/3 of the people I see on the roads these days are texting or watching TV while driving.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

I went to my work Christmas party with my wife a couple weeks ago and got hammered. You know what we did before hand? We planned for a way home afterwards, so we wouldn’t drink and drive. Drunk people often can’t make good decisions; even somewhat responsible people (and believe me, I am nowhere close to a super responsible person) think ahead and make sure they have a plan when they’re sober.

Our family attended a cousin’s wedding recently. We knew that there would be lots of alcohol being served, cocktail hour, champagne toast, wine with dinner, cocktails while dancing. We left the rental car at our hotel, and Uber’d to and from the event.

Rarely do people attend events and not know that they’ll likely be drinking that day or not.

 

[863168]

@StanleyYelnats @atomi Can you guys stop you guys are just jousting at this point. Like if there's some great purpose you guys are fulfilling then that's great, but I don't see the point in arguing when it's clear that this conversation isn't going to lead anyone to a Messianic revelation anytime soon.

 

[altblue]

I want to go against the grain speaking merely on the morality of this issue. Playing devils advocate (Personally I hate drunk drivers. Personal experiences)

If drunk driving makes someone not a moral person, would not people who text and drive be equally bad? I think I trust drunk drivers more than I do texters, because at least they are LOOKING. And the amount of *****S texting and driving is so high. At least 1/3 of the people I see on the roads these days are texting or watching TV while driving.

Given the level of thinking in this post, I'm not exactly surprised by the ban lol.

 

[deleted962973]

@StanleyYelnats @atomi Can you guys stop you guys are just jousting at this point. Like if there's some great purpose you guys are fulfilling then that's great, but I don't see the point in arguing when it's clear that this conversation isn't going to lead anyone to a Messianic revelation anytime soon.

Haha sorry for the spam. Sometimes I can’t resist the temptation of internet arguments :/

 

[toooldtocare]

OP: you state "he got a DUI last month" and wonder if it will ruin his chances this cycle. So assuming he's submitted all the usual stuff and has a bunch of applications pending...
1. As a practical matter, does he have any interviews scheduled(or had any interviews)?
2. When you say "got a DUI" do mean he was a. arrested or b. convicted? If arrested, as others have pointed out, there are a lot of things that can occur, ranging from dismissal to conviction w/jail time. The key point here, unfortunately, is that DUI is considered a criminal offense, so he's been charged. Isn't there something in the application process which asks this question and requires updating? While most likely a misdemeanor(depends on the jurisdiction and assumes no previous DUIs), it's still considered a criminal offense.
3. So while he's charged, it's important to note he's not yet been convicted of anything. At this point, the broad range of results-from dismissal to acquittal at trial to conviction-are available. But he'd be taking quite a risk if he decides to roll the dice to see if he's convicted. There are those on this board who know(I'm not adcom), but I'd imagine if he gets accepted with DUI charges pending and hasn't told the school, the acceptance will be quickly rescinded.
4. But if you mean he's been convicted, he needs to inform all the schools to which he's submitted applications, as he now has a criminal conviction. The medical profession takes substance abuse issues which result in criminal convictions very seriously, as there is heightened scrutiny of dependent health professionals.

So to answer your question: it depends on what's going on-in other words, is he charged/convicted/acquitted? Has he been sent to a treatment program with promises of dismissal if completed satisfactorily? The status of his case will probably make a lot of difference. And depending on that status, the experienced folks here can give an educated opinion.