How screwed is my friend?

[MJToThePreMed]

All right, so I have a friend who's honestly an amazing person and a strong medical school candidate. He has >3.9 GPA and a 523 on the MCAT. He started his own non-profit, competed at the national level in a sport, and has a 3rd author publication, so basically the perfect applicant.

Here's the kicker: he got a DUI last month. Are his med school chances shot for this one mistake or will a med school still accept him? Does he need gap years with specific EC's or should he apply nect cycle?

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[deleted962973]

It's pretty flippant to call this "one mistake". It was a stupid decision that could easily have resulted in someone's death or permanent injury. Forgive me but for personal reasons I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who drive drunk. On top of that, an Uber is just one smartphone tap away, so I'd really start to question his judgement overall. Yes I would believe his chances are significantly diminished, but he can try to repair this by taking some gap years for service and proving that he is better than this. It will also depend heavily on the adcom reading his app and whether they have been personally affected by drunk drivers.

 

[JustaDO]

SDN sure has some good friends

 

[Goro]

All right, so I have a friend who's honestly an amazing person and a strong medical school candidate. He has >3.9 GPA and a 523 on the MCAT. He started his own non-profit, competed at the national level in a sport, and has a 3rd author publication, so basically the perfect applicant.

Here's the kicker: he got a DUI last month. Are his med school chances shot for this one mistake or will a med school still accept him? Does he need gap years with specific EC's or should he apply nect cycle?

Honestly, I'm not crazy about accepting someone who should have known better.

Unfortunately, sometimes one has to apply with the app one has, warts and all, and see how the app cycle shakes out. But people like your friend tend to kill families like mine, so he'd better have a Plan B. Taking some alcohol abuse or diversion classes might help, for starters.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Since (s)he has great stats, apply heavy DO, and hope for the best. If it doesn't pan out, get another profession for 3-5 years and put distance between the event. Apply then.

 

[Goro]

Since (s)he has great stats, apply heavy DO, and hope for the best. If it doesn't pan out, get another profession for 3-5 years and put distance between the event. Apply then.

Per chance, why do you think DO schools will be more forgiving of a recent DUI?

 

[deleted962973]

*insert ramble about seeing families ruined by DUI from personal experience that just sounds pretentious and unneeded*

Since (s)he has great stats, apply heavy DO, and hope for the best. If it doesn't pan out, get another profession for 3-5 years and put distance between the event. Apply then.

If you don't want to be on the receiving end of pretentious moral rants, then don't make grave moral failings- it's not that hard! DO schools aren't nearly that desperate for students

 

[candbgirl]

So where is your friend in the judicial Process? He shouldn't apply until that’s finished and he probably shouldn’t apply for a few cycles. In the meantime he should get into some kind of program that he’ll learn about drinking etc. and what it can do. He(and you) probably feel he doesn’t need it but he just might. He should also look for oportunities to volunteer at alcoholic treatment centers etc or speak to college/ high school kids about drinking and driving.etc.

 

[jarednogeek]

By the time he should apply he’ll probably have to retake that MCAT :/. If he got the dui 2 months ago he’s probably still in the legal process... he needs to finish it, take some alcohol awareness classes etc.. then show maturity and good judgement for a few years in my opinion, but still have a plan B.

 

[deleted645092]

At least has to wait until the legal process is complete. If somehow it gets dropped it technically doesn't have to be reported (I think), but if any sort of conviction occurs, meaning it stays on the record and some sort of punishment occurs, then they're screwed for the time being. It's going to be a good number of years showing significant maturation and activism (volunteering of some sort involving alcohol prevention, as well as substance use counselling).

I had a number of IAs that were limited to my undergrad that occurred freshman year, and they hurt my application pretty bad, but they weren't as bad since they occurred 5 years before I applied. A recent significant legal issue, ESPECIALLY a DUI or other substance use, is an application killer. You might hear this alot, but take it from someone with personal experience, that the first time you get caught is NEVER the first time an event/ crime has occurred, and that's what's important from the perspective of those reviewing the application.

 

[MyOdyssey]

At least has to wait until the legal process is complete. If somehow it gets dropped it technically doesn't have to be reported (I think), but if any sort of conviction occurs, meaning it stays on the record and some sort of punishment occurs, then they're screwed for the time being. It's going to be a good number of years showing significant maturation and activism (volunteering of some sort involving alcohol prevention, as well as substance use counselling).

I had a number of IAs that were limited to my undergrad that occurred freshman year, and they hurt my application pretty bad, but they weren't as bad since they occurred 5 years before I applied. A recent significant legal issue, ESPECIALLY a DUI or other substance use, is an application killer. You might hear this alot, but take it from someone with personal experience, that the first time you get caught is NEVER the first time an event/ crime has occurred, and that's what's important from the perspective of those reviewing the application.

How do you know it was the IAs that hurt you? How did the IAs hurt you?

 

[pillowfighty]

the first time you get caught is NEVER the first time an event/ crime has occurred, and that's what's important from the perspective of those reviewing the application.

Very true, I think the statistic is that people drive drunk on an average of 80 times before they are caught for the first time.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Are his med school chances shot for this one mistake

TBH, it’s probably unrealistic to think that the only time this person drove intoxicated was the one time he was caught.

As others have mentioned, Uber was just a couple clicks away from his phone.

Since med schools have numerous applications from other well-qualified students, there’s no reason for them to choose one with a DUI.

 

[deleted645092]

How do you know it was the IAs that hurt you? How did the IAs hurt you?

Because there were 3 of them and they tarnished an otherwise perfectly polished application that was prepared over the course of a whole year with multiple faculty members and physicians helping me prepare my application, personal statement, and secondaries.

 

[deleted480308]

All right, so I have a friend who's honestly an amazing person and a strong medical school candidate. He has >3.9 GPA and a 523 on the MCAT. He started his own non-profit, competed at the national level in a sport, and has a 3rd author publication, so basically the perfect applicant.

Here's the kicker: he got a DUI last month. Are his med school chances shot for this one mistake or will a med school still accept him? Does he need gap years with specific EC's or should he apply nect cycle?

I hope their chances are shot

 

[Dave1980]

Congratulations on getting a 3rd author publication OP.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

He should seriously considered a new profession. He certainly shouldnt apply for at least 3 to 5 years

Also needs to plan on something like Peace Corps, Teach for America, or maybe military service if that suits him. The recent DUI may well be lethal.

 

[medicineman1234]

Really amazes me how some people can have the capability and work ethic to achieve what your "friend" did but not have the common sense, care, or even risk aversion to spend 10-20$ on uber.

Also in this case how one's life can be completely turned around instantly. Which is fittingly similar to a drunk driving accident.

 

[Stellaartwa]

First things first, your friend needs to hire an excellent lawyer ASAP. There may some type of diversion that your friend could do so this wouldn't end up on their permanent record. Alternatively, a good lawyer could potentially help your friend plead this down to a lesser charge. That would be the absolutely best case scenario in terms of future application cycles. Regardless of what the permanent legal ramifications are, I think your friend needs to take some time off to assess his or her life. This is a very serious personal failing and I don't think now would be a good time to start medical school.

 

[FreeRadicals]

Any Caribbean school will definitely take him :troll:

 

[PreMedMissteps]

First things first, your friend needs to hire an excellent lawyer ASAP. There may some type of diversion that your friend could do so this wouldn't end up on their permanent record. Alternatively, a good lawyer could potentially help your friend plead this down to a lesser charge. That would be the absolutely best case scenario in terms of future application cycles. .

Yes, I thought about that recommendation, but wasn’t sure if removing it from permanent record meant that the student wouldn’t have to report it.

I’m also not in favor of erasing a serious flaw in judgement.

One of my friend’s daughter got a “public intoxication” arrest on a Friday night. She was doing the “right thing,” walking a couple blocks to her apt rather than driving, but her high heel caught in a crack and she fell, and a nearby cop noticed and suddenly she had a record for being “over the driving limit” (while walking). She was in the middle of her application cycle and of course, scared to death how this would affect everything. By Monday afternoon, an attorney had it all removed. All is good, she graduated last May.

 

[863168]

@MJToThePreMed It is possible to still get into an MD medical school with a prior DUI on record. There is a medical school in the United States that accepted a student who had a DUI on their record, but the student had extensively addressed the DUI directly and had framed it as being the elephant in the room on their personal statement when they applied again.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Sure. It is also possible to turn down an MD acceptance and get in, as we've seen before. It will likely kill the drunk driver's medical school chances for around five years - and that's with exemplary conduct. It is possible to shoot your own foot off and still win the race, although this is not a recommended strategy.

 

[atomi]

I knew people that habitually drunk drove in Med school and residency and never got caught. Even one guy who totalled his car and the cop let him go because he said he was a doctor (true story).

Ignore the judgement that people will automatically throw at you, because when some people hear DUI they hear baby murderer and lose their minds. you know you screwed up- let’s get beyond that. The issue is that you’ve you’ve added a lot of risk to your application now. Other people may be risky in lots of different ways, but they can hide it. You can’t. Only way to lower your risk is time. A few years at least. Some way to document sobriety will also help lower risk. This has nothing to do with the ethics of drinking alcohol. It’s about how you have labeled yourself as a risky applicant,

 

[altblue]

I knew people that habitually drunk drove in Med school and residency and never got caught. Even one guy who totalled his car and the cop let him go because he said he was a doctor (true story).

Ignore the judgement that people will automatically throw at you, because when some people hear DUI they hear baby murderer and lose their minds. you know you screwed up- let’s get beyond that. The issue is that you’ve you’ve added a lot of risk to your application now. Other people may be risky in lots of different ways, but they can hide it. You can’t. Only way to lower your risk is time. A few years at least. Some way to document sobriety will also help lower risk. This has nothing to do with the ethics of drinking alcohol. It’s about how you have labeled yourself as a risky applicant,

I get what you're trying to say and the advice you're trying to offer, but the reality is that many people don't take these risks. Many don't cheat, steal or drive drunk. They play by the rules and have little to hide.

I don't know anyone affected by a DUI, so I have no skin in this game. All I know is that a DUI tells me that someone can be irresponsible and willing to ignore the safety of themselves or others. It doesn't mean someone should be shut out from med school permanently, but I'd at least want this factor to be considered in a profession that values ethics.

 

[863168]

@Walter Raleigh The applicant in question didn't need to wait 5 years. They addressed the problem from the moment they got the DUI and did what needed to be done in order to show that they were regretful for their actions.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

@Pina Colada The applicant got admitted? Was the DUI turned into a lesser charge or expunged or something? If it remained a DUI: not only can one shoot off one's own foot and still win the race, but often one doesn't even need to wait for the stump to heal.

 

[863168]

@Pina Colada The applicant got admitted? Was the DUI turned into a lesser charge or expunged or something? If it remained a DUI: not only can one shoot off one's own foot and still win the race, but often one doesn't even need to wait for the stump to heal.

I'll ask them when I meet them again. The person in question is now an ED resident and afaik they didn't tell me that the DUI was expunged.

 

[deleted962973]

I get what you're trying to say and the advice you're trying to offer, but the reality is that many people don't take these risks. Many don't cheat, steal or drive drunk. They play by the rules and have little to hide.

I don't know anyone affected by a DUI, so I have no skin in this game. All I know is that a DUI tells me that someone can be irresponsible and willing to ignore the safety of themselves or others. It doesn't mean someone should be shut out from med school permanently, but I'd at least want this factor to be considered in a profession that values ethics.

I was interested in seeing outcomes for other premeds with criminal records, so I looked up some old SDN WAMC threads with a DUI conviction. On every single one of these threads, without fail, I’ve seen the user you’re replying to come in to defend drunk driving with the excuse that everyone does it. Obviously @atomi is trying to justify drunk driving to themselves (wonder why) so it’s not worth arguing with them.

 

[atomi]

I was interested in seeing outcomes for other premeds with criminal records, so I looked up some old SDN WAMC threads with a DUI conviction. On every single one of these threads, without fail, I’ve seen the user you’re replying to come in to defend drunk driving with the excuse that everyone does it. Obviously this user is trying to justify drunk driving to themselves (wonder why) so it’s not worth arguing with them.

I’m not defending drunk driving. I’m saying that some people are totally incapable of looking at it objectively when it comes to punishment fitting the crime. It’s a crime. Yes. It’s not black and white. Some drunk driving crimes are worse that others. It’s not pre meditated murder. You can have a dui and still be an ethical good person who contributes to society.

It’s a pet peeve of mine, yes.

 

[deleted480308]

I’m not defending drunk driving. I’m saying that some people are totally incapable of looking at it objectively when it comes to punishment fitting the crime. It’s a crime. Yes. It’s not black and white. Some drunk driving crimes are worse that others. It’s not pre meditated murder. You can have a dui and still be an ethical good person who contributes to society.

It’s a pet peeve of mine, yes.

Dui is the opposite of ethically good person. It might be more accurate to say that one can have a dui and make a complete change in their life to eventually become a ethically good person

 

[deleted962973]

I’m not defending drunk driving. I’m saying that some people are totally incapable of looking at it objectively when it comes to punishment fitting the crime. It’s a crime. Yes. It’s not black and white. Some drunk driving crimes are worse that others. It’s not pre meditated murder. You can have a dui and still be an ethical good person who contributes to society.

It’s a pet peeve of mine, yes.

Yeah of course people with DUIs can still contribute great things to society. My first political campaign donation was to Beto after all. But that’s only if the DUI is a single blemish on an otherwise spotless record demonstrating years of altruism to society. There’s good reason that a recent one can be an app killer- in the age of everyone owning a cellphone to call for a ride, there’s just no damn excuse for driving your car while inebriated other than being massively selfish and shortsighted. I’d honestly be much more forgiving of DUIs from 20 years ago when getting into your own car might’ve seemed like your only option.

It’s also pretty intellectually dishonest to act as though most people who drink have gotten behind the wheel drunk, which seems to be a favorite refrain of yours in an attempt to minimize this charge. As a former drinker with an alcohol violation from freshman year, this isn’t true of me or of any of my friends from that time.

 

[riverrunner]

Anyone who is confused about whether drunk driving is wrong should go to a victim impact meeting and have your eyes opened. Find a Victim Impact Panel - Mothers Against Drunk Driving Class
And assume everyone reading your application or interviewing you has had a personal and horrible experience with it.

 

[atomi]

Dui is the opposite of ethically good person. It might be more accurate to say that one can have a dui and make a complete change in their life to eventually become a ethically good person

Without fail, every time one of these threads gets posted somebody, often you, comes in here and chimes with holier than thou in that dui is a horrific crime and they deserve to have their life ruined. Without knowing literally anything about the circumstances, the individual, or the arrest report.

Drinking and driving increases the chance you will have an accident. That chance increase with the amount you drink. As a society we have set a limit that’s ok, and that limit is not zero. Disagree with this if you want. In some countries it’s zero.

There are lots of things that increase the chance you will have an accident besides drinking that people willfully engage in, and make the decisions while sober with full function of their capacities (unlike the decision to drive while intoxicated). Texting and driving. Driving with improper equipment (broken windshield wipers, flat tires, bad brakes). Speeding. Running red lights. Passing on the shoulder. Driving in icy conditions without chains. Etc. Etc.

It pisses me off that every time somebody comes here for advice we get a drive-by holier than thou teetotaler basically saying go kys.

If you drink alcohol to the point of inebriation and think drunk driving can’t happen to you, you’re a fool. Drunk people by definition can’t make good decisions. If you’re saying that drunk driving makes one unethical, then to be logically consistent you need to say that becoming intoxicated in and of itself is unethical.

I’m one of the many in society who rejects the scarlet letter concept of drunk driving perpetuated by groups like MADD and view it as only one factor in my judgement of a person. Maybe I’m just a bleeding heart. But it’s also how our legal system functions in terms of fitting appropriate punishment to crimes. Any DUI attorney will tell you that.

The collateral consequences that DUI carries are often, but certainly not always, unreaonsable in my opinion.

If I were an adcom, I’d look at things like history of other arrests, substance abuse history, repeat offenses, arrest report documenting BAC level, time since arrest, remorse and subsequent citizenship, etc. rather than just saying this person’s life is trash from here on out. The reality is that LOTS of people have driven drunk in their life at some point. The people that get caught are a very small fraction. I think it’s fair to take a closer look and see if this was a one time mistake or if there really is an underlying pathology of recklessness and disregard for others.

 

[deleted480308]

Without fail, every time one of these threads gets posted somebody, often you, comes in here and chimes with holier than thou in that dui is a horrific crime and they deserve to have their life ruined. Without knowing literally anything about the circumstances, the individual, or the arrest report.

Drinking and driving increases the chance you will have an accident. That chance increase with the amount you drink. As a society we have set a limit that’s ok, and that limit is not zero. Disagree with this if you want. In some countries it’s zero.

There are lots of things that increase the chance you will have an accident besides drinking that people willfully engage in, and make the decisions while sober with full function of their capacities (unlike the decision to drive while intoxicated). Texting and driving. Driving with improper equipment (broken windshield wipers, flat tires, bad brakes). Speeding. Running red lights. Passing on the shoulder. Driving in icy conditions without chains. Etc. Etc.

It pisses me off that every time somebody comes here for advice we get a drive-by holier than thou teetotaler basically saying go kys.

If you drink alcohol to the point of inebriation and think drunk driving can’t happen to you, you’re a fool. Drunk people by definition can’t make good decisions. If you’re saying that drunk driving makes one unethical, then to be logically consistent you need to say that becoming intoxicated in and of itself is unethical.

I’m one of the many in society who rejects the scarlet letter concept of drunk driving perpetuated by groups like MADD and view it as only one factor in my judgement of a person. Maybe I’m just a bleeding heart. But it’s also how our legal system functions in terms of fitting appropriate punishment to crimes. Any DUI attorney will tell you that.

The collateral consequences that DUI carries are often, but certainly not always, unreaonsable in my opinion.

If I were an adcom, I’d look at things like history of other arrests, substance abuse history, repeat offenses, arrest report documenting BAC level, time since arrest, remorse and subsequent citizenship, etc. rather than just saying this person’s life is trash from here on out. The reality is that LOTS of people have driven drunk in their life at some point. The people that get caught are a very small fraction. I think it’s fair to take a closer look and see if this was a one time mistake or if there really is an underlying pathology of recklessness and disregard for others.

Not a teetotaler, I like alcohol.

I also don’t ever drive drunk. Not changing my mind, don’t care what you think about the topic

 

[atomi]

Yeah of course people with DUIs can still contribute great things to society. My first political campaign donation was to Beto after all. But that’s only if the DUI is a single blemish on an otherwise spotless record demonstrating years of altruism to society. There’s good reason that a recent one can be an app killer- in the age of everyone owning a cellphone to call for a ride, there’s just no damn excuse for driving your car while inebriated other than being massively selfish and shortsighted. I’d honestly be much more forgiving of DUIs from 20 years ago when getting into your own car might’ve seemed like your only option.

It’s also pretty intellectually dishonest to act as though most people who drink have gotten behind the wheel drunk, which seems to be a favorite refrain of yours in an attempt to minimize this charge. As a former drinker with an alcohol violation from freshman year, this isn’t true of me or of any of my friends from that time.

I grew up in the country and went to school in a rural area. There was no public transportation. Nearly everyone who partied in college either drove drunk or rode with a drunk driver at some point. There was usually an effort to find a DD, but given time you’re rolling the dice if you choose to drink. You friends bail on you and you’re left alone somewhere, drunk, don’t realize you’re drunk then just make a bad choice. Just takes one time. Alcohol makes people make bad choices, even good people. This opinion of mine comes from the fact that most people don’t admit it to themselves. Yeah, I had 5 beers, but that was over 4 hours. I’m sure I was fine...

 

[atomi]

I also don’t ever drive drunk. Not changing my mind, don’t care what you think about the topic

Likewise. Perhaps if you don’t want to offer any useful advice to people like the OP, don’t respond to these threads if all you’ve got to say is you hope they fail.

If you’ve ever been drunk and made a bad decision while drunk, then I’ll just say you’re a hipocrife and a fool if you think this couldn’t happen to you. If you choose to drink to the point of being drunk, you open yourself up to this possibility. I think avoiding drunkenness is the best way to prevent all of this.

But we’ve got people who think it’s totslky fine to get drunk as long as you don’t choose to drive. Yeah, it doesn’t work like that. Cognitive dissonance.

 

[deleted480308]

Likewise. Perhaps if you don’t want to offer any useful advice to people like the OP, don’t respond to these threads if all you’ve got to say is you hope they fail.

If you’ve ever been drunk and made a bad decision while drunk, then I’ll just say you’re a hipocrife and a fool if you think this couldn’t happen to you. If you choose to drink to the point of being drunk, you open yourself up to this possibility. I think avoiding drunkenness is the best way to prevent all of this.

But we’ve got people who think it’s totslky fine to get drunk as long as you don’t choose to drive. Yeah, it doesn’t work like that. Cognitive dissonance.

I’ll post as I wish. You do the same

 

[deleted962973]

But we’ve got people who think it’s totslky fine to get drunk as long as you don’t choose to drive. Yeah, it doesn’t work like that. Cognitive dissonance.

... this has to be THE worst case of false equivalence I’ve ever seen. Yes it’s okay to drink within reason. No it’s not okay to drink and drive. Why is this so hard for you?

:troll:

 

[Goro]

If I were an adcom, I’d look at things like history of other arrests, substance abuse history, repeat offenses, arrest report documenting BAC level, time since arrest, remorse and subsequent citizenship, etc. rather than just saying this person’s life is trash from here on out. The reality is that LOTS of people have driven drunk in their life at some point. The people that get caught are a very small fraction. I think it’s fair to take a closer look and see if this was a one time mistake or if there really is an underlying pathology of recklessness and disregard for others.

This is how my Adcom looks at these types incidents, except for the BAC part. We don't usually see that type of info on the app form. And honestly, I can't recall any discussion in the Adcom that took sb247's viewpoint for a single, less recent offense, ie, one made when the candidate was 17-19 years old. As I have mentioned many times, a lot of us were young and stupid once.

 

[deleted962973]

This is how my Adcom looks at these types incidents, except for the BAC part. We don't usually see that type of info on the app form. And honestly, I can't recall any discussion in the Adcom that took sb247's viewpoint for a single, less recent offense, ie, one made when the candidate was 17-19 years old. As I have mentioned many times, a lot of us were young and stupid once.

I agree with this, except it looks like this applicant is on the verge of applying, making him 21-22 minimum. Imo this life decision means he doesn’t seem ready for med school yet. Don’t agree with sb247 that his chances should be shot forever, but they should be for this cycle.

 

[Goro]

I agree with this, except it looks like this applicant is on the verge of applying, making him 21-22 minimum. Imo this life decision means he doesn’t seem ready for med school yet. Don’t agree with sb247 that his chances should be shot forever, but they should be for this cycle.

Oh I agree. The OP is in trouble because of the very recent infraction. As I mentioned above, at this point in his life, he should have known better.

 

[Stellaartwa]

If I were an adcom, I’d look at things like history of other arrests, substance abuse history, repeat offenses, arrest report documenting BAC level, time since arrest, remorse and subsequent citizenship, etc..

What you're not accounting for is that there are thousands of other applicants who haven't shown this level of irresponsibility. If you were an adcom and a 3.6/512 with DUI crossed your desk and directly before him was a 3.6/512 with NO DUI, why would you put in the effort to dig into someone's criminal record to "judge" how egregious their crime was? Would you really have that much time? As a PP said, with a DUI or other similar low-level offense you have now labeled yourself as a "risky" candidate. We don't know if we can trust you. We don't know if you'll be a good investment and make it through school or if you'll likely have alcohol issues and fail out. Why take a chance on you (even though you may be a perfectly great person) when there are thousands of other equally qualified "good people" to take your spot? It's a numbers game.

 

[863168]

For clarification, the applicant that I'm referencing was wait listed from all schools after disclosing their DUI and was not accepted into any medical school despite being very much as close to a 4.0/528 applicant as you can get. They spent two or three years doing AA, becoming a leader, and also scheduling talks on college campuses about how they pretty much allowed poor decision making with alcohol to ruin their career in medicine. After doing all this, they still decided to give it one last go and applied to a wide range of schools disclosing all that good stuff. A big difference from him and all the other DUI posts you see in premed or /r/premed was that they were genuinely remorseful and acknowledged that it was a problem that they had been putting on the back burner because they thought it was part of how they were able to be successful in life. Then they figured out it wasn't the case.

 

[atomi]

... this has to be THE worst case of false equivalence I’ve ever seen. Yes it’s okay to drink within reason. No it’s not okay to drink and drive. Why is this so hard for you?

:troll:

Strawman. Please show me where I said it was ok to drink and drive.

SMH. Done here. Will never be able to reason with people like you. Getting drunk is dangerous and irresponsible, period. You are not fully in control of your actions when you are drunk. You can stumble in the street and cause a fatal traffic accident. It doesn’t make you a bad person, but it’s dangerous behavior in and of itself.

Avoid drunkenness. Tired of these ridiculous “I used to get shutfaced and black out but was morally superior and could always control myself and never ever drove and would never even think about it” posts. Umm, congratulations? No doubt you did something else stupid and reckless and just lack insight as to what really was going on. Or maybe you are just that awesome at holding your alcohol. I don’t know. Tired of the duplicity in society where people are cool with regular extreme drunkennness in youth but want to totally destroy somebody’s life for having a 0.08 behind the wheel.

The kid screwed up. His life is not over. Nor should it be. Thankfully most adcoms by their nature will take multiple factors into consideration.

See you on the next thread.

 

[deleted962973]

Strawman. Please show me where I said it was ok to drink and drive.

SMH. Done here. Will never be able to reason with people like you. Getting drunk is dangerous and irresponsible, period. You are not fully in control of your actions when you are drunk. You can stumble in the street and cause a fatal traffic accident. It doesn’t make you a bad person, but it’s dangerous behavior.

Avoid drunkenness. Tired of these ridiculous “I used to get shutfaced and black out but was morally superior and could always control myself and never ever drove and would never even think about it” posts. Umm, congratulations? No doubt you did something else stupid and reckless and just lack insight as to what really was going on. Or maybe you are just that awesome at holding your alcohol. I don’t know. Tired of the duplicity in society where people are cool with regular extreme drunkennness in youth but want to totally destroy somebody’s life for having a 0.08 behind the wheel.

The kid screwed up. His life is not over.l nor should it be. Thankfully most adcoms by their nature will take multiple factors into consideration.

See you on the next thread.

Where have I acted morally superior? I’m not cool with extreme youth drunkenness and neither was my college. As I mentioned, I got an alcohol violation for my actions, and I deserved it. The difference is the only thing I injured was my liver, unlike the drunk driver who killed one of my friends in college.

You really are quite a good troll! Hope you can sort out your priorities at some point, because white knighting for drunk drivers on an online forum ain’t it.

 

[atomi]

What you're not accounting for is that there are thousands of other applicants who haven't shown this level of irresponsibility. If you were an adcom and a 3.6/512 with DUI crossed your desk and directly before him was a 3.6/512 with NO DUI, why would you put in the effort to dig into someone's criminal record to "judge" how egregious their crime was? Would you really have that much time? As a PP said, with a DUI or other similar low-level offense you have now labeled yourself as a "risky" candidate. We don't know if we can trust you. We don't know if you'll be a good investment and make it through school or if you'll likely have alcohol issues and fail out. Why take a chance on you (even though you may be a perfectly great person) when there are thousands of other equally qualified "good people" to take your spot? It's a numbers game.

I agree with you completely. I was that PP that was talking about risk.

The holier than thou types want to sink people like this future based on a moral judgement of justice in their heads.

Adcoms typically aren’t making admit decisions based on casting moral judgement. They are using the information they have publucally available, such as arrest records, to minimize risk in applicants. Otherwise they would go to great lengths to evaluate candidates based on behavioral and personality traits to try and screen out the bad apples too that just haven’t had their number come up with the law yet.

 

[atomi]

Where have I acted morally superior? I’m not cool with extreme youth drunkenness and neither was my college. As I mentioned, I got an alcohol violation for my actions, and I deserved it. The difference is the only thing I injured was my liver, unlike the drunk driver who killed one of my friends in college.

You really are quite a good troll! Hope you can sort out your priorities at some point.

The problem is your absurd firmly held belief that the only one you could have possibly injured through extreme drunkenness is yourself. You got LUCKY. Period. Regardless, it sounds like you’ve learned your lesson and luckily for you there are people like me who are willing to not let your past ruin your future so that you can get a second chance to go to medical school and learn things like how alcohol affects the brain and decision making/impulsivity.

 

[Goro]

What you're not accounting for is that there are thousands of other applicants who haven't shown this level of irresponsibility. If you were an adcom and a 3.6/512 with DUI crossed your desk and directly before him was a 3.6/512 with NO DUI, why would you put in the effort to dig into someone's criminal record to "judge" how egregious their crime was? Would you really have that much time? As a PP said, with a DUI or other similar low-level offense you have now labeled yourself as a "risky" candidate. We don't know if we can trust you. We don't know if you'll be a good investment and make it through school or if you'll likely have alcohol issues and fail out. Why take a chance on you (even though you may be a perfectly great person) when there are thousands of other equally qualified "good people" to take your spot? It's a numbers game.

We ask this question all the time, and admissions is not a zero sum game.

If we feel that the candidate with the DUI has promise, and owned the transgression and led an exemplary life, then we accept both candidates.

 

[deleted962973]

The problem is your absurd firmly held belief that the only one you could have possibly injured through extreme drunkenness is yourself. You got LUCKY. Period. Regardless, it sounds like you’ve learned your lesson and luckily for you there are people like me who are willing to not let your past ruin your future so that you can get a second chance to go to medical school and learn things like how alcohol affects the brain and decision making/impulsivity.

Anyone who uses alcohol as an excuse to justify violent or reckless behavior is covering for themselves. If you beat your wife, drive drunk, get in a fight, etc, while drunk, these shady characteristics don't just go away when you're sober. What's that quote, "a drunk man's words are a sober man's thoughts"? So yeah, given that I'm a generally amiable and easygoing person sober, I'm pretty sure I'll never turn into the kind of person who willfully harms other people while drunk. Maybe if I stumbled out a window and fell on someone, sure, but that's quite different than willfully and consciously getting behind the wheel of a car, picking a fight, etc.

I will make an excuse for age (like say under 17-18), because you may still be learning how to handle alcohol and how to make adult decisions. The OP's friend, as a 22-year-old, obviously hasn't learned a thing about healthy drinking habits in his four full years of college, hence zero sympathy from me. Anyway, I'm done here.