How serious is this?

[rubisco88]

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Pages/stop-ACGME-training-limits-for-DOs.aspx

One of the allopathic docs that I shadowed says I should think twice about going to a DO school because I might not be able to get into an ACGME residency, which I guess are higher quality than an AOA residency. How serious are these changes? I'm thinking about going into a competitive field. He made it seem like in the future DOs won't get to pursue allopathic residencies anymore.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Serious proposal indeed, but as long as you do an ACGME internship, you'll be okay. Remember, most programs include internship in them. It's only a few programs, like Neurology, that split internship and residency is a PGY-2 position.

 

[HalfListic]

"The 2014 policy would affect primarily residents who anticipate they will live in one of the four states (Florida, Michigan, Oklahoma, and Pennsylvania) requiring an AOA-approved first year of training for state licensure and wish to enter into ACGME training. The 2015 policy would restrict DOs in AOA-accredited programs from direct entry into ACGME fellowships."

from the AOA website

 

[se20001984]

you can also get an apeal for those states

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Serious proposal indeed, but as long as you do an ACGME internship, you'll be okay. Remember, most programs include internship in them. It's only a few programs, like Neurology, that split internship and residency is a PGY-2 position.

So lets say you apply neurology and get in, do you have the choice to do IM for a year at that hospital? Or what?

 

[Goro]

Our students are having no problems getting into GOOD ACGME residencies, and AOA ones to boot.

Talk to a residency director, not just some Joe MD off the street.

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Pages/stop-ACGME-training-limits-for-DOs.aspx

One of the allopathic docs that I shadowed says I should think twice about going to a DO school because I might not be able to get into an ACGME residency, which I guess are higher quality than an AOA residency. How serious are these changes? I'm thinking about going into a competitive field. He made it seem like in the future DOs won't get to pursue allopathic residencies anymore.

 

[Mass Effect]

So lets say you apply neurology and get in, do you have the choice to do IM for a year at that hospital? Or what?

At some programs, the intern year (the year of IM) is built in, so if you match at that program, you match for all four years. At other programs, you have to apply separately to neurology and IM. It is possible to match into one and not the other.

 

[NeuroLAX]

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Pages/stop-ACGME-training-limits-for-DOs.aspx

One of the allopathic docs that I shadowed says I should think twice about going to a DO school because I might not be able to get into an ACGME residency, which I guess are higher quality than an AOA residency. How serious are these changes? I'm thinking about going into a competitive field. He made it seem like in the future DOs won't get to pursue allopathic residencies anymore.

See Goro's comment below.

From what I have gathered this policy is more aimed at FMG/IMG applicants, but it does bring up the concern of DO students needing to complete an ACGME residency for ACGME fellowships.

Our students are having no problems getting into GOOD ACGME residencies, and AOA ones to boot.

Talk to a residency director, not just some Joe MD off the street.

+1

"The 2014 policy would affect primarily residents who anticipate they will live in one of the four states (Florida, Michigan, Oklahoma, and Pennsylvania) requiring an AOA-approved first year of training for state licensure and wish to enter into ACGME training. The 2015 policy would restrict DOs in AOA-accredited programs from direct entry into ACGME fellowships."

from the AOA website

See se20001984's comment below.

you can also get an appeal for those states

+1

So lets say you apply neurology and get in, do you have the choice to do IM for a year at that hospital? Or what?

At some programs, the intern year (the year of IM) is built in, so if you match at that program, you match for all four years. At other programs, you have to apply separately to neurology and IM. It is possible to match into one and not the other.

+1. This is a matter of Prelim vs. Advanced vs. Categorical residencies.

http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/index.html

 

[HalfListic]

you can also get an apeal for those states

Awesome! Thanks for sharing this...

 

[NeuroLAX]

Awesome! Thanks for sharing this...

Just so we are all on the same page... this is Resolution 42.

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Education/postdoctoral-training/Pages/resolution-42.aspx/

 

[Bacchus]

Our students are having no problems getting into GOOD ACGME residencies, and AOA ones to boot.

Talk to a residency director, not just some Joe MD off the street.

If you'd like to weigh in. I will be applying to several dually accredited programs. The PD where I'm at now said as long as you go to a dually accredited program or an ACGME program you'll have no problem. Real or not real?

 

[TriagePreMed]

So lets say you apply neurology and get in, do you have the choice to do IM for a year at that hospital? Or what?

Sometimes. Sometimes you go to another hospital.

 

[AlbertVOligh]

If you'd like to weigh in. I will be applying to several dually accredited programs. The PD where I'm at now said as long as you go to a dually accredited program or an ACGME program you'll have no problem. Real or not real?

Which do you think is more likely? I guess it doesn't have to be limited to these choices either...

• ACGME rewrites the regulation and allows DO's to get ACGME fellowships with AOA residency training
• More AOA programs start becoming dually accredited so that DOs can pursue ACGME fellowships
• Nothing happens and AOA trained physicians in the future have harder time getting fellowship training

 

[Bacchus]

Which do you think is more likely? I guess it doesn't have to be limited to these choices either...

• ACGME rewrites the regulation and allows DO's to get ACGME fellowships with AOA residency training
• More AOA programs start becoming dually accredited so that DOs can pursue ACGME fellowships
• Nothing happens and AOA trained physicians in the future have harder time getting fellowship training

I don't know because I don't know if doing the AOA leg of a dually accredited program affords you the same rights as an ACGME residency. I was told it does, but I've also been told blatant lies in the past secondary to ignorance on a subject.

 

[MedPR]

It's serious enough to go the MD route if possible. Less "what if?"s.

Our students are having no problems getting into GOOD ACGME residencies, and AOA ones to boot.

Talk to a residency director, not just some Joe MD off the street.

I know you are just speaking from your experience, which is fine, but not all of us will attend your school. Not all of your students have "no problems" getting into ACGME/AOA programs because every school has students that don't get into "GOOD" ACGME programs. There are students who fail, students who don't match, and students who match into less than "GOOD" ACGME programs.

I'm not bashing DO. I'm saying that there are medical students in every school (MD and DO) that don't succeed. Nobody has a 0% attrition rate, and nobody has a 100% #1 program match rate.

 

[TriagePreMed]

It's serious enough to go the MD route if possible. Less "what if?"s.

I know you are just speaking from your experience, which is fine, but not all of us will attend your school. Not all of your students have "no problems" getting into ACGME/AOA programs because every school has students that don't get into "GOOD" ACGME programs. There are students who fail, students who don't match, and students who match into less than "GOOD" ACGME programs.

I'm not bashing DO. I'm saying that there are medical students in every school (MD and DO) that don't succeed. Nobody has a 0% attrition rate, and nobody has a 100% #1 program match rate.

I think the point Goro is making is that it's extremely unlikely that you will not be able to do ACGME residency due to a year of ACGME internship. Finding an internship year *somewhere* in the country isn't hard at all for D.O. Then your likelihood for PGY-2 residency is still the same had the rule not been implemented. The rule only messes up people that wanted to avoid doing ACGME internship because AOA would easily keep the doors open for states that require it. Nevertheless, you could appeal and get your ACGME approved by AOA.

The only ones truly hurt are those with AOA residency going into ACGME.

 

[cliquesh]

So lets say you apply neurology and get in, do you have the choice to do IM for a year at that hospital? Or what?

If you match a pgy2 spot, like anesthesia, neurology, or radiology, you have to find a one year internship somewhere. The internship can be at the hospital you're doing your residency or somewhere different. There are medicine, surgical, and transitional internships. Transitional are regarded as the best because they have lots of electives and you don't really belong to one department, so you have less responsibilities.

I doubt that proposal will change things that much. Not many people go from an aoa residency to an acgme fellowship. The only people that routinely to this, which is the same group that will be most affected by this proposal, are those in aoa surgical residencies. There are very few aoa surgical fellowships.

 

[MedPR]

I think the point Goro is making is that it's extremely unlikely that you will not be able to do ACGME residency due to a year of ACGME internship. Finding an internship year *somewhere* in the country isn't hard at all for D.O. Then your likelihood for PGY-2 residency is still the same had the rule not been implemented. The rule only messes up people that wanted to avoid doing ACGME internship because AOA would easily keep the doors open for states that require it. Nevertheless, you could appeal and get your ACGME approved by AOA.

The only ones truly hurt are those with AOA residency going into ACGME.

I agree with this. Unless you're a terrible student, you won't have a problem finding an ACGME residency. But even MD students can't always get into "good" ACGME programs.. whatever that means.

 

[Goro]

Quite simply, do well in medical school (makes B's or betters in everything), do well on your boards (USMLE and COMLEX, and if you doing well in medical school, you WILL do well on boards!) and do well in your rotations. By impressing your preceptors, you'll get good LORs.

And there you go.

I know you are just speaking from your experience, which is fine, but not all of us will attend your school. Not all of your students have "no problems" getting into ACGME/AOA programs because every school has students that don't get into "GOOD" ACGME programs. There are students who fail, students who don't match, and students who match into less than "GOOD" ACGME programs.

I'm not bashing DO. I'm saying that there are medical students in every school (MD and DO) that don't succeed. Nobody has a 0% attrition rate, and nobody has a 100% #1 program match rate.

 

[MedPR]

Quite simply, do well in medical school (makes B's or betters in everything), do well on your boards (USMLE and COMLEX, and if you doing well in medical school, you WILL do well on boards!) and do well in your rotations. By impressing your preceptors, you'll get good LORs.

And there you go.

I'm completely on board with this. I misinterpreted your original post.