How Should I Explain?

[Dreamcomet]

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Hi guys, I'm new here, I hope I can be a great contributor to the forums 🙂.

Last school year (my freshman year), I got caught drinking. Not only that, there's a rule in my school that if you blow over a certain number on the breathalyzer, you have to go to the hospital to sleep it off.

Well, when I got caught, I blew over that limit and was sent to the hospital.

In order to redeem myself from this, I signed up for our school's alcohol awareness class (I had to pay $ for that class and had to wake up 6 AM in the morning every Tuesdays) and did not miss a class.

This all happened last year, and here I am now, trying to apply to pharmacy school through pharmcas.

My question is: when I am explaining my case on the application, how should I write it????


Any replies would be GREATLY appreciated!!

Thank you

 

[atticus27]

Should you write about it? Well, even IF it was a profound life changing event in your life I would say no, don't ever mention it. but that's just me.

 

[Dreamcomet]

Well on the application it says:

"Were you ever the recipient of any action (e.g. dismissal, disqualification, suspension, probation etc.) by any college or university for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violations?

"

Doesn't this mean I have to explain my alcohol violation (my school put me on probation until December)? But now that I have read it again, it says, "academic performance or conduct". Does that even pertain to alcohol violation?? haha

 

[trailrider400]

How will they even know about the incident is it on you transcript? Even if that class is on you transcript I'd almost think you'd be better off not bringing it up. More info?

 

[Passion4Sci]

To ME, that falls under misconduct, and I would definitely write it on the application.

However, you have made amends, and you have proven that it was a terrible misjudgment, an error, and you've moved on in your life.

I don't think it'll be a big deal whatsoever. It might even get some sympathy from people, such as, "What the hell, you can't drink in college!?"... And if you DON'T submit that information and somehow they find out about it, then you're completely screwed, so it's not worth "lying by omission."

own up to it - You'll be fine.

 

[Dreamcomet]

If they asked me if I was in a violation of academic misconduct and if I said "no" even if I was, that would be lying :/ . Plus, I'm pretty sure schools would do background checks and they will find out eventually.


But selecting "no" wouldn't be a lie if "Were you ever the recipient of any action (e.g. dismissal, disqualification, suspension, probation etc.) by any college or university for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violations?

" did not pertain to alcohol lol.

So did I miread that question? Does "academic performance or conduct violations" include alcohol???

Thank you guys so far for your response!

 

[trailrider400]

Well on the application it says:

"Were you ever the recipient of any action (e.g. dismissal, disqualification, suspension, probation etc.) by any college or university for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violations?

"

Doesn't this mean I have to explain my alcohol violation (my school put me on probation until December)? But now that I have read it again, it says, "academic performance or conduct". Does that even pertain to alcohol violation?? haha

ohhh... if they put you on probation and theres a lapse in your coursework you're probably going to have to explain something. For the record I think its ridiculous to suspend someone for drinking. I they suspended everyone who drank they'd have half as many students. Unfortunately you got caught. Hopefully everything works out for you. Oh and how high did you blow? 🙂

 

[atticus27]

Well on the application it says:

"Were you ever the recipient of any action (e.g. dismissal, disqualification, suspension, probation etc.) by any college or university for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violations?

"

Doesn't this mean I have to explain my alcohol violation (my school put me on probation until December)? But now that I have read it again, it says, "academic performance or conduct". Does that even pertain to alcohol violation?? haha

Well, that changes the situation. And yeah "conduct violation" is inclusive of everything including alcohol. Just be honest (no lame excuses) and show that you learned from your mistake. I think the adcoms will find your honesty and straightforwardness refreshing. Also, you'll be less nervous come interview day if you have no skeletons in the closet. You'll be fine.

 

[Carboxide]

If they asked me if I was in a violation of academic misconduct and if I said "no" even if I was, that would be lying :/ . Plus, I'm pretty sure schools would do background checks and they will find out eventually.


But selecting "no" wouldn't be a lie if "Were you ever the recipient of any action (e.g. dismissal, disqualification, suspension, probation etc.) by any college or university for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violations?

" did not pertain to alcohol lol.

So did I miread that question? Does "academic performance or conduct violations" include alcohol???

Thank you guys so far for your response!

"Conduct", meaning behavior, would include your alcohol violation.

I would report it on PharmCAS and maybe briefly mention it in your PS if you want, but I don't see it as a big deal. If it was heroin..big deal. Booze? Eh.

 

[Passion4Sci]

If they asked me if I was in a violation of academic misconduct and if I said "no" even if I was, that would be lying :/ . Plus, I'm pretty sure schools would do background checks and they will find out eventually.


But selecting "no" wouldn't be a lie if "Were you ever the recipient of any action (e.g. dismissal, disqualification, suspension, probation etc.) by any college or university for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violations?

" did not pertain to alcohol lol.

So did I miread that question? Does "academic performance or conduct violations" include alcohol???

Thank you guys so far for your response!

OK, my wife the law student suggests it's going to be an interpretation:

There are two options when looking at this:

a. "Academic performance or academic conduct violations"
b. "Academic performance or any other conduct violations".

For me, I am leaning toward "a". The way it reads, to me, it is asking you if you've had any academic performance (I.e., Ac-Pro) or academic conduct violations (i.e., cheating). If you use interpretation "a", then your alcohol use infraction is not counted. If "b", then it is.

That's a very tough call, but I always err on the side of honesty and it's served me well so far.

REGARDLESS... like I said before, it won't be a big deal.

 

[aboveliquidice]

A simple risk analysis...

What is the worse thing that can happen if I disclose this information?

What is the worse thing that can happen if I do NOT disclose this information?

To this date, I have not seen an applicant punished for misconduct that they have owned up to. If you do not disclose something - and we learn of it - your application will go in the trash can.

Furthermore - it won't be just this year's application - The fact that you failed to disclose information would preclude your acceptance in the future as well (once a liar...).

Disclose it - explain it - and move on

 

[swift3260]

For me this one is as easy as pie to decide if you are supposed to mention it or not. If it is listed on your permanent record or transcript then you are supposed to mention it, if not then you are not supposed to list it.

You said they put you on "probabtion". Is this because you were arrested and put on probation by the state for underage drinking or did the school put you on "academic probation" for breaking the code of conduct? They are two completely different things and the pharmCAS is talking about academic probation. So...get a copy of your OFFICIAL trancript, if there is a notation of academic probation on it (and there will be if you were placed on academic probation) then you absolutely are supposed to list it and expain it. If there was no academic probation or notation on your transcript then you should not list it. Its really as simple as that. If it IS noted on you record though, dont worry about it, give a good explaination and DONT make excuses. It wont stop you from getting into pharmacy school trust me.

 

[CopToEM]

Well, unless your school staff has a breathalyzer (which, if so, is really weird) then I'm assuming you had either a run-in with campus or local police. If so, you better believe there's a record of it and it's not on your transcript.

If you were never arrested then there may not be a record of it anywhere. You should know, however, that being given a ticket is technically being arrested. So, if you were forced to answer for your actions in court, they will find it on a simple background check.

This is pretty much a given... disclose it to the school. I would bet a month's pay that you won't be the only one who's drank in the entering class.

Hell, in my opinion, it shows you matured and accounted for your actions almost immediately. You knew it was wrong, went above and beyond to learn from it, and you've moved on. Admitting it also shows a level of maturity some applicants might not have.

Best of luck to you!

 

[pharm B]

...it shows you matured and accounted for your actions almost immediately. You knew it was wrong, went above and beyond to learn from it, and you've moved on. Admitting it also shows a level of maturity some applicants might not have.

Best of luck to you!

+1

I guess I'm repeating everyone else here, but not admitting to it just leaves you hanging out waiting to be caught.

Integrity is something your school of choice, and the medical field in general, should appreciate, so I wish you luck in your truthful interviews.

 

[trailrider400]

I know this may be a little trivial since there is kind of an ethical dilemma here but is any of this going to show up on your transcript?

 

[FarscapeGirl]

Well, unless your school staff has a breathalyzer (which, if so, is really weird) then I'm assuming you had either a run-in with campus or local police. If so, you better believe there's a record of it and it's not on your transcript.

If you were never arrested then there may not be a record of it anywhere. You should know, however, that being given a ticket is technically being arrested. So, if you were forced to answer for your actions in court, they will find it on a simple background check.

This is pretty much a given... disclose it to the school. I would bet a month's pay that you won't be the only one who's drank in the entering class.

Hell, in my opinion, it shows you matured and accounted for your actions almost immediately. You knew it was wrong, went above and beyond to learn from it, and you've moved on. Admitting it also shows a level of maturity some applicants might not have.

Best of luck to you!

This is a good point. While not on your application, it could come up in a background check, which often does not get done until after you're conditionally accepted. I would go ahead and own up to it. If you have a good record and no other problems, and you took the awareness class, then things should probably work out. And you don't have to worry about it coming up later and causing problems later if you don't disclose it now.

 

[trailrider400]

This is a good point. While not on your application, it could come up in a background check, which often does not get done until after you're conditionally accepted. I would go ahead and own up to it. If you have a good record and no other problems, and you took the awareness class, then things should probably work out. And you don't have to worry about it coming up later and causing problems later if you don't disclose it now.

Who cares if it will show up in a background check. When they do background checks they are mostly screening to make sure you comply with the vulnerable adults act and to make sure you're allowed within 200 feet of a school. I've gotten an underage consumption before but I sure as hell didn't feel the need to explain something no one cares about that happened when I was 18. I know someone people are going to think its shady to not report it but if its not on your transcript I don't see any reason to bother. Passion4sci established that there are a few different interpretations. It seems clear to me that they are mostly taking about serious issues like cheating and plagiarism. Not that some rent a cop started hassling you when you were walking home from a party. You should explain stuff with your transcripts which could raise questions but theres something to be said about not saying any more than you have to.

 

[wes011]

Well on the application it says:

"Were you ever the recipient of any action (e.g. dismissal, disqualification, suspension, probation etc.) by any college or university for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violations?

"

Doesn't this mean I have to explain my alcohol violation (my school put me on probation until December)? But now that I have read it again, it says, "academic performance or conduct". Does that even pertain to alcohol violation?? haha

Honesty is the best policy. You can expand on this if asked about it by the college (and you probably will be) by stating that you wanted to be honest about your past because you are ethical and that experience made you realize that you will always be held accountable for the choices you make. This demonstrates that you have integrity, are ethical and accountable which are all excellent qualities pharmacists should posses.

Chances are they will laugh at you, but better to be laughed at for a silly decision than to be in direct violation of their code of conduct and rejected for a little white lie.

 

[Bowler11]

Underage drinking is not something you need to disclose in your information and it is not grounds of dismissal on a background check. This is because it is not a felony and like it says on the ticket you received, it can not be grounds for not getting a job ect....

I had an underage possession of alcohol ticket and it was never brought up and did show up on my background check.

No need to worry unless they asked about it (Which I don't see them doing)

And honesty is not the best policy when it comes to something not needing an explanation. Nothing to worry about!

 

[confettiflyer]

i wouldn't mention it if it weren't on your transcript, it sounds like your school is especially nazi about underage drinking. at my school, you'd have to do some BS community service and promise not to get caught/do it again next time.

i mean, to me...getting caught drinking on campus by some overzealous resident advisor when you're not 21 is like getting parking tickets... not worth mentioning (unless for some oddball reason it was listed on your academic transcript).

 

[CopToEM]

Yea, again, in addition to everything I said... you've just finished (possibly) 4 years of College... the chances that you've had an underage drinking ticket far outweigh the chances that you haven't. Ad Com's know that I'm certain.

 

[trailrider400]

Yea, again, in addition to everything I said... you've just finished (possibly) 4 years of College... the chances that you've had an underage drinking ticket far outweigh the chances that you haven't. Ad Com's know that I'm certain.

Ahhh the good old days of running like hell and hiding in a swamp at 3 AM until someone comes to pick you up... You guys got me all emotional and nostalgic 😳

 

[confettiflyer]

Ahhh the good old days of running like hell and hiding in a swamp at 3 AM until someone comes to pick you up... You guys got me all emotional and nostalgic 😳

I remember having to jump off a balcony onto a pile of mattresses when the police showed up at a party near UCLA. I was totally out of it running in some bushes. It was great.

 

[CopToEM]

I remember having to jump off a balcony onto a pile of mattresses when the police showed up at a party near UCLA. I was totally out of it running in some bushes. It was great.

When I was first in college, I had a buddy who kicked out some planks to a chick's above ground pool deck and hid under the deck from the cops. We had to smuggle him out about four hours later.

Needless to say... all my creativity during my partying days led me to finding some people in what they definitely would have expected to be excellent hiding spots. I knew all the tricks!

 

[bullsfan1986]

don't tell any school you're applying to. i was caught with a lot worse and did not make mention of anything. trust me, there are thousands of kids who want to get in to pharmacy school. If you and another candidate have similar stats, but the other candidate doesn't have a drinking ticket, who do you think the adcoms are going to prefer? good luck.

 

[tungsten87]

what exactly does the pharmacy background check consist of? if it's not on your transcript and you don't have a criminal record than how could they possibly know? this type of offense will definitely be on your "student" record with your school's office of student conduct but I'm not sure if the pharmacy schools actually have access to this information.

 

[CopToEM]

don't tell any school you're applying to. i was caught with a lot worse and did not make mention of anything. trust me, there are thousands of kids who want to get in to pharmacy school. If you and another candidate have similar stats, but the other candidate doesn't have a drinking ticket, who do you think the adcoms are going to prefer? good luck.

In one perspective, this guy is probably right. I've thought a lot about this since the question has popped up several times. Here's how I think I would handle it when it came down to it.

If the school specifically tells you that they're going to conduct a criminal background check you may as well come clean... that is, if you were ever charged with having something.

Now, if the charges were dropped, you don't have to worry about it. However, please understand the difference in charges being dropped (that is, never making it to court) and charges being nolle prosequi'd.

Nolle prosequi means that the charges are essentially being placed on hold but any further criminal action can result in the resurgance of the charges on top of new charges. It's like saying... Ok, we're gonna let this slide, but if you screw up we're bringing it back.

In the end, provide the information that the application asks you for. If it wants to know of any academic or misconduct penalties you faced in college... tell them. If it wants to know of any drug or alcohol charges you've ever faced... tell them. If it wants to know of any drug or alcohol charges you've been convicted of but your charges were dropped... don't tell them - same for nolle prosequi.

The application will tell you what they want to know. If they don't ask - don't tell. If they find out in the process but never asked you to reveal the information they can't try to say you hid something from them.

Never tell more than you have to. If it's asked of you, do it, otherwise go with the flow and address it when it becomes an issue.

 

[CopToEM]

what exactly does the pharmacy background check consist of? if it's not on your transcript and you don't have a criminal record than how could they possibly know? this type of offense will definitely be on your "student" record with your school's office of student conduct but I'm not sure if the pharmacy schools actually have access to this information.

Again, I think this depends on the pharmacy school. Traditionally, a background check will consist of all criminal charges you've faced. This does not include traffic violations except those that are part of the criminal statute... DUI, Reckless Driving, etc. A driving ticket will not show up on a background check but would show up on a driving transcript for example.

In most states, not guilty does show up on a criminal record. This is where the purpose of having a charge expunged comes into play. Most states still feel if necessary to show that yes, you were charged, but you were found not guilty. This could include underage possession of alcohol.

Technically, people aren't supposed to use that as a basis to refuse you anything. However, this is 2009. By expunging the record you remove it all together.

My understanding is that the school will not have access to your student record. They will have access to your transcripts because you provide them. However, unless you explicitly give them permission, I don't think your school can reveal your student information to anyone.

I know I went on several calls as a Police Officer where parents were pissed off that they were paying for Tom/Annie's college but the college wouldn't let them see their grades. My answer was always... tough luck, Tom and Annie are adults.

 

[confettiflyer]

I know I went on several calls as a Police Officer where parents were pissed off that they were paying for Tom/Annie's college but the college wouldn't let them see their grades. My answer was always... tough luck, Tom and Annie are adults.

FERPA ftw 👍

Good posts by the way. I had a friend with an alcohol charge, pleaded no contest...but it was expunged after 18 months and so no one knows anything essentially.

 

[CopToEM]

FERPA ftw 👍

Good posts by the way. I had a friend with an alcohol charge, pleaded no contest...but it was expunged after 18 months and so no one knows anything essentially.

No one ever will - law enforcement related agencies and courts are the only ones who can see it now.. and we had to dig to find them. If it's ever released to anyone he can file a lawsuit and will certainly win damages.