How should I move forward...? Requesting some insight.

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Adversum

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Hi everyone, hope you're all doing well. (Hopefully I've posted this in the right section).

Where to begin? Well I suppose it would be prudent to start at the beginning of relevant education.

I started my undergraduate in 2012 and finished my degree (a BA in Psychology) back in 2015 with a 2.5 total GPA. I won't sugar-coat it -- I did rather horribly due to some life-changing issues which lead to a decline in my mental well-being, to put it most simply. I was initially a biochemistry major, however due to such issues and a decline in my GPA, it was suggested I change majors to finish my degree - if at all. Fast forward to 2016 (after I was able to overcome the issues which were previously plaguing me), I did a post-bac over the course of two years and achieved a 4.0, which pulled up my total to 2.9 and my science to just above a 3.4. I took my MCAT last year and got a 509. My ECs aren't the best, but they aren't horribly below average either. I've maintained a steady volunteer experience for many years and regularly shadow two physicians for almost a year now.

I applied a little late last cycle, due to the timing of my MCAT and other required courses. I chose about 8 schools that I met the GPA requirements for and thought would be a good fit, and (retrospectively) not surprisingly, did not get into any of them. Due to pressures of my parents (and success stories they have heard from relatives who's children have succeeded), they have pushed me to apply for the top Caribbean schools. So far I have gotten interviews with Ross, SGU, and AUC. AUC is set to give me a decision this Thursday.

My issue with this is ultimately residency placement. I hear a lot of things on all sides. From people who went there and are now successful physicians to people who are applying to residency now to people who say I should not go at all, because it's too risky (residency placement is a huge issue/worry for me). If it helps any, I would like to do a residency in psychiatry. I know that can change in the future, but one of the physicians I shadow now is a psychiatrist and despite not finishing in biochemistry as planned, I developed a great love of psychology and its medical applications in psychiatry.

Going to the Caribbean is one option for me. Another option I have considered is a Masters/SMP in Medical Science or similar. Right now I am eyeing Boston University (I heard this one was very good, and as badly as I've done, I've talked to the admissions head and they encouraged me to apply as I do technically meet their requirements on a case-by-case basis), as well as a couple of others. While I understand the dichotomy between undergraduate and graduate GPA, I would like to show DO schools I am more than capable of handling the required work and that what happened in my initial undergrad work was something that does not define me as a student or as a person. Most importantly, I would like to use the opportunity to get into research and to involve myself in it. I have previously never had the opportunity for research. I did poorly in my undergraduate, so I did not have much time to devote to it, and in my post-bac, I found that my undergraduate GPA held me back when applying for research opportunities as they would often find more qualified candidates. Thus I feel the master's would help me kill two birds with one stone with the hopes of reapplying the cycle after the one that just opened a few days ago.

Right now I'm getting advice from my counselor(s) (those from my post-bac program and those from programs I'm looking to - Caribbean and Master's), but I just wanted to ask here and get the opinion of people who are...more actively living in the situation I'm in...so to speak. I am a firm believer in gathering as much information as possible before making a decision, and that's why I decided to make an account and ask.

If there's anything I need to add to this post to clarify, let me know!

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Due to pressures of my parents (and success stories they have heard from relatives who's children have succeeded), they have pushed me to apply for the top Caribbean schools. So far I have gotten interviews with Ross, SGU, and AUC. AUC is set to give me a decision this Thursday.

Ahhh, parents...doing their best out of love and sublime ignorance to destroy your medical career.
Do a search in these fora as to why going Carib is a terrible idea.

Then read this:
Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention
 
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*snipsnip*
Ahhh, parents...doing their best out of love and sublime ignorance to destroy your medical career.
Do a search in these fora as to why going Carib is a terrible idea.
*snipsnip*

Yeah...I've been lurking here for a while now. I generally know how people here feel about the Carib :oops:. While I understand most people here are against it, I want to make sure my other option is a wise one :hungover:.

Also, thank you for the link! I wish I had it sooner to be honest! Luckily, I've managed to follow most of the steps you outlined. My only issue is I'm uncertain of what to do now educationally to make myself more presentable for DOs. Applying this cycle is likely out of the question. Other than another semester of incoming grades to finish my post-bac, almost nothing has changed in my application other than maybe applying early rather than late like I did this past cycle.

I've done a post-bac and I'm working on ECs. More undergraduate classes seem inefficient (cost and time vs GPA of 5 yrs of school - each A affects my GPA less and less). I demonstrated the upwards for sure (2.5 from psych -> 4.0 with only sci courses in post-bac). I'm wondering what'll give my application the extra OOMPH it needs for an interview. An SMP would bolster my non-existent research experience as well as provide another, more rigorous dimension of classes, which is why I feel it's a good second option. All of this while continuing to work on my clinical and volunteer so that I can get back in there.

Should I continue with the SMP then, according to your advice? My post-bac included the basic bio/chem/phys I needed, and I took a couple extra semesters to take A and P, Micro, Genetics, and Biochem. The SMP would introduce me to more medical classes, I would assume...such as A&P, Histo, Immunology, etc...which is why I'm leaning that way...
 
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What 8 schools and how late?
Initial submission in late Jan. Everything in by first week of February this year.

ATSU - SOMA
LECOM - Bradenton and Erie (I counted this as 2)
University Incarnate Word - SOM
Arkansas COM
Alabama COM
Lincoln Memorial - Debusk
UNECOM
 
Yeah...I've been lurking here for a while now. I generally know how people here feel about the Carib :oops:. While I understand most people here are against it, I want to make sure my other option is a wise one :hungover:.

Also, thank you for the link! I wish I had it sooner to be honest! Luckily, I've managed to follow most of the steps you outlined. My only issue is I'm uncertain of what to do now educationally to make myself more presentable for DOs. Applying this cycle is likely out of the question. Other than another semester of incoming grades to finish my post-bac, almost nothing has changed in my application other than maybe applying early rather than late like I did this past cycle.

I've done a post-bac and I'm working on ECs. More undergraduate classes seem inefficient (cost and time vs GPA of 5 yrs of school - each A affects my GPA less and less). I demonstrated the upwards for sure (2.5 from psych -> 4.0 with only sci courses in post-bac). I'm wondering what'll give my application the extra OOMPH it needs for an interview. An SMP would bolster my non-existent research experience as well as provide another, more rigorous dimension of classes, which is why I feel it's a good second option. All of this while continuing to work on my clinical and volunteer so that I can get back in there.

Should I continue with the SMP then, according to your advice? My post-bac included the basic bio/chem/phys I needed, and I took a couple extra semesters to take A and P, Micro, Genetics, and Biochem. The SMP would introduce me to more medical classes, I would assume...such as A&P, Histo, Immunology, etc...which is why I'm leaning that way...
I don't think that you need an SMP. But how many credits have you taking during your post-bac?

What is your state of residence?

If you haven't done so already, shadow a DO and get LOR from same.
 
I don't think that you need an SMP. But how many credits have you taking during your post-bac?

What is your state of residence?

If you haven't done so already, shadow a DO and get LOR from same.
My undergraduate was 118 units at 2.5. - I had like 68 units from AP in high school, which let me graduate.
My post-bac was 48 at 4.0.

California.

Yes I have a feeling what hurt me was that the 2 physicians are MDs. They both wrote me wonderful letters, I'm sure...but they were not DOs.

Do you feel like I could aim for applying this cycle? I feel that not much in my application has changed other than the semester of classes I took while submitting the application. I'm still lacking research at this point in time - and my pre-med advisor made that a huge point of the discussion of my re-application.
 
My undergraduate was 118 units at 2.5. - I had like 68 units from AP in high school, which let me graduate.
My post-bac was 48 at 4.0.

California.

Yes I have a feeling what hurt me was that the 2 physicians are MDs. They both wrote me wonderful letters, I'm sure...but they were not DOs.

Do you feel like I could aim for applying this cycle? I feel that not much in my application has changed other than the semester of classes I took while submitting the application. I'm still lacking research at this point in time - and my pre-med advisor made that a huge point of the discussion of my re-application.
I think it's time to apply. You will be helped if you can get a DO lOR. Not having one doesn't hurt, but having one helps. IF you're in driving distance of Western (both), Touro-CA, or TUNCOM, perhaps go visit them and chat up the DO faculty.
I suggest the following:

UCD
UCI
UCR IF you're form the Inland Empire
Any DO school. I can't recommend Touro-NY, Nova, Wm Carey, LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide.
 
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I think it's time to apply. You will be helped if you can get a DO lOR. Not having one doesn't hurt, but having one helps. IF you're in driving distance of Western (both), Touro-CA, or TUNCOM, perhaps go visit them and chat up the DO faculty.
I suggest the following:

UCD
UCI
UCR IF you're form the Inland Empire
Any DO school. I can't recommend Touro-NY, Nova, Wm Carey, LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide.

I'm sorry, to clarify did you mean I should "apply" to these institutions or to look for a mentor DO to shadow from these institutions?
A major reason I decided to forego applying locally (other than ATSU), was the GPA requirement and the avg GPA of accepted students. While I understand it's just an average, I'm still more than a half total GPA point away from the average Western Pomona incoming student, for example. I also don't meet the 3.0 GPA for Tuoro.

Could you give me a solid reason as to why I should apply? Is it the fact that I would be applying early? Is it time? Is it something else? I just can't see my application being 'so' much different than last year that it warrants an interview at a DO school.

As for the DO LoR, I think I will make that my next goal, for sure.
 
I'm sorry, to clarify did you mean I should "apply" to these institutions or to look for a mentor DO to shadow from these institutions?
A major reason I decided to forego applying locally (other than ATSU), was the GPA requirement and the avg GPA of accepted students. While I understand it's just an average, I'm still more than a half total GPA point away from the average Western Pomona incoming student, for example. I also don't meet the 3.0 GPA for Tuoro.

Could you give me a solid reason as to why I should apply? Is it the fact that I would be applying early? Is it time? Is it something else? I just can't see my application being 'so' much different than last year that it warrants an interview at a DO school.

As for the DO LoR, I think I will make that my next goal, for sure.
You should apply to DO schools.

IF you have trouble finding a DO, AND a DO school is in driving distance, go visit them.

You have successfully reinvented yourself. If your GPA is still under the stated minimums, try contacting the Admissions deans and asking if your reinvention gets a bye. If not, scratch those schools off your list.

You still would have some 30+ schools to target.
 
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OP seems to me like you just need to apply this summer and you'll have a good chance. Finding a DO to shadow can be tough but I've personally found them to be really receptive to helping out pre meds interested in DO schools. Don't be afraid to do cold calls/emails.
 
Hi everyone, hope you're all doing well. (Hopefully I've posted this in the right section).

Where to begin? Well I suppose it would be prudent to start at the beginning of relevant education.

I started my undergraduate in 2012 and finished my degree (a BA in Psychology) back in 2015 with a 2.5 total GPA. I won't sugar-coat it -- I did rather horribly due to some life-changing issues which lead to a decline in my mental well-being, to put it most simply. I was initially a biochemistry major, however due to such issues and a decline in my GPA, it was suggested I change majors to finish my degree - if at all. Fast forward to 2016 (after I was able to overcome the issues which were previously plaguing me), I did a post-bac over the course of two years and achieved a 4.0, which pulled up my total to 2.9 and my science to just above a 3.4. I took my MCAT last year and got a 509. My ECs aren't the best, but they aren't horribly below average either. I've maintained a steady volunteer experience for many years and regularly shadow two physicians for almost a year now.

I applied a little late last cycle, due to the timing of my MCAT and other required courses. I chose about 8 schools that I met the GPA requirements for and thought would be a good fit, and (retrospectively) not surprisingly, did not get into any of them. Due to pressures of my parents (and success stories they have heard from relatives who's children have succeeded), they have pushed me to apply for the top Caribbean schools. So far I have gotten interviews with Ross, SGU, and AUC. AUC is set to give me a decision this Thursday.

My issue with this is ultimately residency placement. I hear a lot of things on all sides. From people who went there and are now successful physicians to people who are applying to residency now to people who say I should not go at all, because it's too risky (residency placement is a huge issue/worry for me). If it helps any, I would like to do a residency in psychiatry. I know that can change in the future, but one of the physicians I shadow now is a psychiatrist and despite not finishing in biochemistry as planned, I developed a great love of psychology and its medical applications in psychiatry.

Going to the Caribbean is one option for me. Another option I have considered is a Masters/SMP in Medical Science or similar. Right now I am eyeing Boston University (I heard this one was very good, and as badly as I've done, I've talked to the admissions head and they encouraged me to apply as I do technically meet their requirements on a case-by-case basis), as well as a couple of others. While I understand the dichotomy between undergraduate and graduate GPA, I would like to show DO schools I am more than capable of handling the required work and that what happened in my initial undergrad work was something that does not define me as a student or as a person. Most importantly, I would like to use the opportunity to get into research and to involve myself in it. I have previously never had the opportunity for research. I did poorly in my undergraduate, so I did not have much time to devote to it, and in my post-bac, I found that my undergraduate GPA held me back when applying for research opportunities as they would often find more qualified candidates. Thus I feel the master's would help me kill two birds with one stone with the hopes of reapplying the cycle after the one that just opened a few days ago.

Right now I'm getting advice from my counselor(s) (those from my post-bac program and those from programs I'm looking to - Caribbean and Master's), but I just wanted to ask here and get the opinion of people who are...more actively living in the situation I'm in...so to speak. I am a firm believer in gathering as much information as possible before making a decision, and that's why I decided to make an account and ask.

If there's anything I need to add to this post to clarify, let me know!

Go DO
 
Initial submission in late Jan. Everything in by first week of February this year.

ATSU - SOMA
LECOM - Bradenton and Erie (I counted this as 2)
University Incarnate Word - SOM
Arkansas COM
Alabama COM
Lincoln Memorial - Debusk
UNECOM
That was very very late. ARCOM requires a DO letter as well.
 
My undergraduate was 118 units at 2.5. - I had like 68 units from AP in high school, which let me graduate.
My post-bac was 48 at 4.0.

California.

Yes I have a feeling what hurt me was that the 2 physicians are MDs. They both wrote me wonderful letters, I'm sure...but they were not DOs.

Do you feel like I could aim for applying this cycle? I feel that not much in my application has changed other than the semester of classes I took while submitting the application. I'm still lacking research at this point in time - and my pre-med advisor made that a huge point of the discussion of my re-application.
You can apply this year, trust Goro on the school list. Your post bacc was impeccable.
 
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You should apply to DO schools.

IF you have trouble finding a DO, AND a DO school is in driving distance, go visit them.

You have successfully reinvented yourself. If your GPA is still under the stated minimums, try contacting the Admissions deans and asking if your reinvention gets a bye. If not, scratch those schools off your list.

You still would have some 30+ schools to target.

You can apply this year, trust Goro on the school list. Your post bacc was impeccable.

Would you guys say that doing an SMP in the meantime to fill my gap year would hurt? As I said I plan (hopefully) to do well there and get into research, but as of right now, I'm not sure I could get accepted/interviewed anywhere. I would also hopefully use this time (starting in Fall of this year), to find and shadow a DO for a LoR.

I just want an "insurance" plan so to speak if I don't get accepted and have to apply again in 2019 for 2020 admissions. My biggest fear is not moving forward with things like research and higher-level education because I was overconfident yet again that I could be accepted to a DO school.

Opinions? I understand there is a cost and time/effort involved in an SMP. I don't have unlimited money but luckily I have parents who are willing to help me out and access to student loans, albeit possibly unsubsidized.

As for the Caribbean, I am going to still do my best at interviews there. Even though it's one of my less desirable choices, I still don't want to lose the opportunity to make a good first impression...and at its most basal level the interview experience has been eye-opening.

This question is mainly for Goro: As for looking at schools and seeing if they will make exceptions to even LOOK at my application despite not making grade cut-offs, you suggested talking to the Admissions Dean. Is there anything else I can do to get them to make exceptions? Should I highlight my ECs to them, show my grade improvements, etc?

Thanks again for walking me through this. I'm a first-generation MD in my family and finding this kind of advice out has been a new and unfamiliar experience for me.
 
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As for the Caribbean, I am going to still do my best at interviews there. Even though it's one of my less desirable choices, I still don't want to lose the opportunity to make a good first impression...and at its most basal level the interview experience has been eye-opening.

This question is mainly for Goro: As for looking at schools and seeing if they will make exceptions to even LOOK at my application despite not making grade cut-offs, you suggested talking to the Admissions Dean. Is there anything else I can do to get them to make exceptions? Should I highlight my ECs to them, show my grade improvements, etc?

.

You could apply to SMPs and DO schools at the same time.

See bolded for the only thing that will really help relative to your last question.
 
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I think your main problem was applying in January. Apply in June and I'm sure you'll get in somewhere.
 
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Thanks so much everyone! I appreciate all your help.

So to recap, here's my plan:

I'm going to still go ahead with Carib interviews. At the very least they're good interview practice and I can turn down an acceptance and apply another time if I really must.

I'm going to apply in earnest for the SMPs.

I'm going to keep volunteering/shadowing. Hopefully I can find a DO through one of the physicians I shadow now or through the hospital I volunteer with. My volunteer coordinator is extremely helpful (she's the one who actually hooked me up with the psychiatrist I shadow now!).

And lastly I will go ahead with my application early for DO schools once again, looking for schools that will make GPA exceptions and casting a wide net in the hopes of getting a few interviews and hopefully an acceptance. If all else fails, I can finish the SMP I have hopefully gotten into and try again in 2019 for 2020 admission.

Again thanks for your help everyone. I'm really glad I decided to post here. It was really helpful.
 
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Apply TUNCOM for SMP if you wanted to go that route. As long as you get 3.5+ in SMP you will be guaranteed interview and most likely you will get into their DO programs. I can't put stuff here but PM me if you need more information for TUNCOM. For their SMP you must have 2.9 c/sGPA which you do have. If you have not applied yet I would suggest apply asap.

https://tun.touro.edu/prospective-students/admissions/applying-for-admission/mhs-admission/

Also go to Postbacc/SMP link here for more informations about, here is the link.
Postbaccalaureate Programs

All the very best!!!
 
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Hey guys, thanks for all the advice. Just an update:

I got accepted to AUC recently. At the very least I have something to fall back on.

And the psychiatrist I shadow has found another (DO) psychiatrist who is a colleague of his that I might possibly be able to shadow!

Working on my SMP applications and should be ready to submit all of those by the end of this week/middle of next. I should also be able to submit my AACOMAS by the end of next week as I'm getting into contact with schools and such to see if they can make exceptions!
 
Hey guys, thanks for all the advice. Just an update:

I got accepted to AUC recently. At the very least I have something to fall back on.

And the psychiatrist I shadow has found another (DO) psychiatrist who is a colleague of his that I might possibly be able to shadow!

Working on my SMP applications and should be ready to submit all of those by the end of this week/middle of next. I should also be able to submit my AACOMAS by the end of next week as I'm getting into contact with schools and such to see if they can make exceptions!
No. Just no. Trust us
 
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