How smart do you need to be to be a doctor?

[Hanse]

I'm not talking about specific GPAs or what you need to get into specific courses or schools or anything like that (I'm Australian anyway) but I was just after a broad generalisation about this. I'm currently halfway through a journalism degree that I started first year out of high school but have been thinking about changing for a while.

Anyway, I'm a good student with Humanities sort of subjects but this obviously isn't going to relate in any way to medicine as far as I can see.

But assuming that you read everything and study hard and revise etc how smart do you need to be? I know this is kinda ambiguous but anything you could contribute would be appreciated.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[HCW212]

Well...technically...you need to have just enough intellect to get into med. school; I think that tells you how smart you have to be. Because without med school you aren't a doctor. That's my opinion.

 

[Hanse]

lol. Well that is an obvious answer. 😛

I can change to it I believe assuming I get good enough marks for my bachelor of journalism I think so that isn't that interesting to me. But when actually getting the education, is understanding and comprehending all the info difficult?

 

[RxnMan]

I've been told by current students of similar academic credentials to mine (B.S. Chem. Eng.) that the material presented in med school is less difficult than ugrad, but the volume you are responsible for is huge.

 

[bobito]

Define smart.
You need to be able to accumulate a vast amount of knowledge and procedural skills. And be able to apply it correctly.
However, in most situations the necessity for creative intelligence is limited. That is unless you intend to do research, invent something, or do something creative.
An analogy is that being a physician is like being a carpenter,plumber, and electrician. But with humans. Same type of action, different materials.
Plenty of doctors are dumb as bricks. Experience trumps intelligence.

 

[Hanse]

Define smart.
You need to be able to accumulate a vast amount of knowledge and procedural skills. And be able to apply it correctly.
However, in most situations the necessity for creative intelligence is limited. That is unless you intend to do research, invent something, or do something creative.
An analogy is that being a physician is like being a carpenter,plumber, and electrician. But with humans. Same type of action, different materials.
Plenty of doctors are dumb as bricks. Experience trumps intelligence.

That is kinda what I was wanting to know. Thanks. Any other input welcome though.

 

[FenderHM]

I think its more a matter of your mental discipline than "intelligence." You just have to study hard enough to maintain a good GPA (At least 3.5) and do ressonably well on the mcat (28+).

I'd say its more important to have the patience to jump thru all the hoops than to be a genuis.

 

[Law2Doc]

Define smart.
You need to be able to accumulate a vast amount of knowledge and procedural skills. And be able to apply it correctly.
...
Experience trumps intelligence.

Well, not only this, but people skills and sound decision making abilities are pretty important too. Someone who works well with people, can assimilate a large quantity of info, and be able to make fast, smart decisions without ever having enough information. That is really the key. It's definitely not the same as IQ, but it is a skillset that not everyone is going to have.

 

[ZAZA67401]

You has gots to be really super dopper smart!

 

[needinformation]

Perhaps we glorify medical school too much. My premed supervisor told me this; med school is like trade school, they teach you to do X when you see A, do Y when you see B...etc. You need to be able to memorize and memorize, and occasionally, take that leap and make things practical. Of course, I think one has to be a genius to do research, but I think for an average dr. joe, it helps to be really smart (makes med schoo less miserable), but no genius level IQ needed.

 

[Law2Doc]

Perhaps we glorify medical school too much. My premed supervisor told me this; med school is like trade school, they teach you to do X when you see A, do Y when you see B...etc. You need to be able to memorize and memorize, and occasionally, take that leap and make things practical. Of course, I think one has to be a genius to do research, but I think for an average dr. joe, it helps to be really smart (makes med schoo less miserable), but no genius level IQ needed.

It's somewhat different than trade school, because no patient/procedure is going to be identical, and things can go bad fast. Very few trades require you to think as fast on your feet, and certainly fewer have death as the repercussion when you screw up. So no, you needn't be a genius, but you need to be able to improve and draw on skills other than just to be able to memorize and regurgitate. A lot of this can be taught, of course, but probably the best docs also have good instincts.

 

[jbing]

.

 

[dapmp91]

😱

 

[badlydrawnvik]

Einstein was a chump compared to the premeds on this forum.

 

[Shredder]

125 IQ
120 for DO

less and you will not get licensed or will get sued out of practice. These are only minima too. Certainly higher to achieve any prominence.

IMO

 

[Saluki]

I'm not that bright, and I'm doing it... If I can do it, anyone can 😛

 

[Gerrymandering]

most geniuses are not physicians...if this is what you want to know!!

i.e. look at engineers...they have to invent things in order to make things!! look at the airplanes today versus airplanes yesterday...they're a lot more improved electrically and mechanically which are made possible by engineers..

GENIUSES ARE EVERYWHERE...even janitors can be considered geniuses 🙂

 

[NonTradMed]

My opinion is that med school is more about hard work than about being smart. Sure, there are plenty of smart people in med school, but in order to succeed and become a doc, you have to be a hard worker, self-disciplined and able to sit down and study on Friday nights than the budding genius who self-taught calculus at the age of 5.

 

[Saluki]

GENIUSES ARE EVERYWHERE...even janitors can be considered geniuses 🙂

Like Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting- he was so hot 😍

 

[thesauce]

Plenty of doctors are dumb as bricks.

I think you take it too far with that comment.

There are not many, if ANY, "dumb doctors." There may be several with average IQs. YOU may be naturally smarter than many of them, but no matter who you are, you have to get past that USMLE to become a doctor and that test is HARD. And you have to get a 60% raw score just to pass.

Before you go around saying that doctors are stupid, go do 100 questions of a USMLE Step 1 question book and see if you can get a 60%.

 

[Gerrymandering]

Like Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting- he was so hot 😍

LOOOOOOOOL i cant say the same (of course im a man), but yeah did sound a little matt damonish

 

[americanpierg]

I'm not talking about specific GPAs or what you need to get into specific courses or schools or anything like that (I'm Australian anyway) but I was just after a broad generalisation about this. I'm currently halfway through a journalism degree that I started first year out of high school but have been thinking about changing for a while.

Anyway, I'm a good student with Humanities sort of subjects but this obviously isn't going to relate in any way to medicine as far as I can see.

But assuming that you read everything and study hard and revise etc how smart do you need to be? I know this is kinda ambiguous but anything you could contribute would be appreciated.

you dont have to be smart to be a doctor. einstein is smart. smart is being able to think out of the norm. anyone can become a doctor if they wanted to. it just takes mental discipline and effort.

 

[pnasty]

i agree with above....i suppose the smarter you are the easier it is to learn the material and the less work you have to put in, but as long as you work your ass off anyone could do it

 

[LJDHC05]

i agree with above....i suppose the smarter you are the easier it is to learn the material and the less work you have to put in, but as long as you work your ass off anyone could do it

And if you're dumb and lazy, you better be damned good looking if you want get in.

 

[bigred001]

125 IQ
120 for DO

less and you will not get licensed or will get sued out of practice. These are only minima too. Certainly higher to achieve any prominence.

IMO

I'm surprised that you haven't been attacked for this yet, as you clearly made those numbers up.

 

[LJDHC05]

I'm surprised that you haven't been attacked for this yet, as you clearly made those numbers up.

Naw I'd say they're right on... 😉

 

[MarzMD]

I'm surprised that you haven't been attacked for this yet, as you clearly made those numbers up.

He did not make them up. They are on the AAMC website.
AAMC

 

[Gentle]

you dont have to be smart to be a doctor. einstein is smart. smart is being able to think out of the norm. anyone can become a doctor if they wanted to. it just takes mental discipline and effort.

I know people who want to be doctors but they're not accepted by med schools. How come "anyone can become a doctor if they wanted to"?

 

[Shredder]

I'm surprised that you haven't been attacked for this yet, as you clearly made those numbers up.

Qualifying with an IMO wards off attacks. RPG style. Care to offer counter numbers? There will be exceptions but you have to give some confidence interval. I didn't entirely make them up--most IQ level charts you see will actually place professionals like lawyers and doctors in the 130 area, so I was somewhat conservative actually.

edit: nm I'm having trouble finding support. It's not terribly important anyway, consider it semi-BS but not totally. There is a certain IQ cutoff below which doctorhood is unrealistic.

 

[ucsb101]

I've been told by current students of similar academic credentials to mine (B.S. Chem. Eng.) that the material presented in med school is less difficult than ugrad, but the volume you are responsible for is huge.

completely agree

 

[45408]

You don't have to be a genius to get in, but you should be pretty smart. However, you CAN be quite naive to the ways of the world (or internet forums), as you can see here - http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=3549444&postcount=25

 

[Shredder]

yeah i guess that guys the real prowler, always looking for the jugular to attack on questionable posts heheh

 

[colt]

Qualifying with an IMO wards off attacks. RPG style. Care to offer counter numbers? There will be exceptions but you have to give some confidence interval. I didn't entirely make them up--most IQ level charts you see will actually place professionals like lawyers and doctors in the 130 area, so I was somewhat conservative actually.

http://us.geocities.com/rnseitz/Definition_of_IQ.html this site covers that topic. I don't know how credible it is, but a fun read none the less.

 

[colt]

I think that becoming a doctor is a combination of things other than pure intelligence. Work ethic can make up for slightly lower intelligence. Being poor can limit one's time for school. So having above average IQ and coming from an upper middle or better economic class is a good recipe for doctors.

 

[Shredder]

http://us.geocities.com/rnseitz/Definition_of_IQ.html this site covers that topic. I don't know how credible it is, but a fun read none the less.

yeah, there is the site is i pulled it from. i agree with your assessment of the site. being a doc does involve other things than pure intelligence, but there is still a practical cutoff. avg iq is about 100 and it takes quite a bit more than that to become a doc

 

[CTSballer11]

yeah, there is the site is i pulled it from. i agree with your assessment of the site. being a doc does involve other things than pure intelligence, but there is still a practical cutoff. avg iq is about 100 and it takes quite a bit more than that to become a doc

Yea that is true, but most people graduating college have the ability if they work hard to become a doc.

 

[gdk420]

According to this, the average IQ of a doc is 128, with a varying range according to the bar. Unfortunately it only uses the male species in the survey.

http://www.sq.4mg.com/IQ-jobs.htm

 

[Chan26]

I have graduated with a Pre-Nursing Degree, Healthcare Administration Degree and Public Health Degree. Can you tell me if this help me when I go to medical school and will medical schools recognize the PreNursing prereqs.

 

[njbmd]

125 IQ
120 for DO

less and you will not get licensed or will get sued out of practice. These are only minima too. Certainly higher to achieve any prominence.

IMO

Hi there,
IQ of 100 here. Licensed allopathic physician, AOA (Alpha Omega Alpha) in medical school and finishing General Surgery residency. IQ has nothing to do with medical practice or getting into medical school. If you are a good student, you can get in and out of medical school with an averge IQ (100).

njbmd 🙂

 

[Chan26]

Hi there,
IQ of 100 here. Licensed allopathic physician, AOA (Alpha Omega Alpha) in medical school and finishing General Surgery residency. IQ has nothing to do with medical practice or getting into medical school. If you are a good student, you can get in and out of medical school with an averge IQ (100).

njbmd 🙂

So I am a little behind on med school. Was medical school hard for you and could you work.

 

[americanpierg]

I know people who want to be doctors but they're not accepted by med schools. How come "anyone can become a doctor if they wanted to"?

then obviously their desire to become a doctor wasnt strong enough to make them do well in school and volunteering and whatnot. i know a TON of "dumb" people who gratuated highschool with a sub 3.0 gpa, then get the motivation in college when they realized that college was the end of the road, pulled their act together, and now have 3.8+ college gpas. do u have to be smart to pass anatomy? no, u just have to put in the time to memmorize all the stuff. if u dont get into med school, its because u didnt put enough effort into it, not because ur not smart enough.


The reason more indians are becoming doctors is not because they are smarter as a race, its becuase their parents understand the importance of knowledge and force the kids to spend more times with academics. Those that have seen poverty will have a stronger motivation to succeed.


there are many ways to define being "smart", but the way most people see it is the amount of knowledge someone has. the only way to be "smart" is through the effort put in to obtain that knowledge. Of two kids, kid 1 could be smarter than kid 2 becuase kid 1 grew up in upper class america while kid 2 is an immigrant with little formal education, but kid 1 could easily lose motivation to try hard and pulls through college with a 3.3 gpa and not make it into med school, while kid 2, wanting to move away from poverty, works his @ss off and gets a 3.9 in college and gets into med school and becomes a doctor

 

[bolnoi]

According to this, the average IQ of a doc is 128, with a varying range according to the bar. Unfortunately it only uses the male species in the survey.

http://www.sq.4mg.com/IQ-jobs.htm

damn, doctors are on the same level as accountants and lawyers🙁(

 

[americanpierg]

According to this, the average IQ of a doc is 128, with a varying range according to the bar. Unfortunately it only uses the male species in the survey.

http://www.sq.4mg.com/IQ-jobs.htm

How does an IQ test determine if you have to be smart to become a doctor??? Taking the average iq of a doctor to see if a person has to be smart to be a doctor is largely flawed. the only thing the statistics on that website says is that the more schooling you get the better the job ull get into

of course the average IQ of doctors is gonna be HIGHER than normal, what do u expect from having to go through 8 years of post secondary education, that ur iq will be the same as someone who only finished highschool??

the only way to tell if you have to be "smart" to become a doctor, if ur trying to use IQ as a measurement, is to measure the IQ of premed freshmen before they they ever take a college course and track which ones ultimately make it to becoming doctors

 

[bolnoi]

how does mcat correspond to your iq? i know average mcat for accepted medical students is 30. but many medical students score much higher...

 

[americanpierg]

how does mcat correspond to your iq? i know average mcat for accepted medical students is 30. but many medical students score much higher...

mcat = how much time and effort put into studying (which could be offset if u already took crazy advance science courses and studied ur @ss off in ur undergrad and still retain much of the information, which still counts as studying) ...period, no ifs ands or buts about it, its not a test of intellectual ability, its a test of memmorization and repetetion (verbal section)

 

[bolnoi]

mcat = how much time and effort put into studying (which could be offset if u already took crazy advance science courses and studied ur @ss off in ur undergrad and still retain much of the information, which still counts as studying) ...period, no ifs ands or buts about it, its not a test of intellectual ability, its a test of memmorization and repetetion (verbal section)

yeah, right. i'm sure premeds who have 4.0gpa's in all the prerequisite courses just didnt study enough for the mcat. everyone takes this test seriously.

 

[americanpierg]

yeah, right. i'm sure premeds who have 4.0gpa's in all the prerequisite courses just didnt study enough for the mcat. everyone takes this test seriously.

if ur a premed with 4.0 and get below a 30 on the test, either u got an unlucky test or ur grades are highly inflated (u came from a community college or someting), find me a 4.0 student from harvard that scored under average on mcat and ill convert to christianity

 

[bolnoi]

if ur a premed with 4.0 and get below a 30 on the test, either u got an unlucky test or ur grades are highly inflated (u came from a community college or someting), find me a 4.0 student from harvard that scored under average on mcat and ill convert to christianity

yeah, if you get a 4.0, you should be able to get a 30, unless your iq is very low. but there is no guarantee that you'll get a 40... also you mentioned harvard, but most people there have 1500+ on sat's, so it's a bit different from an average state school. and state schools are not grade-inflated, they actually pride themselves on having avg gpa's of 3.0 while harvard has something like 3.4.

 

[americanpierg]

yeah, if you get a 4.0, you should be able to get a 30, unless your iq is very low. but there is no guarantee that you'll get a 40... also you mentioned harvard, but most people there have 1500+ on sat's, so it's a bit different from an average state school. and state schools are not grade-inflated, they actually pride themselves on having avg gpa's of 3.0 while harvard has something like 3.4.

lol what does iq have to do with this...if stephen hawkings took the mcat right now, sure he'll rape the physics section, but how would he fare on orgo, or maybe even bio? smart=knowledge and knowledge=effort u put forth to obtain it.

the only time i see that a person is "smarter" than someone else is when they're able to learn stuff more easility than others and think outside of the box and more in an abstract manner, a higher intellectual capacity or someting, which u cannot measure with a written test. these people are those with crazy brain diseases that make them smarter (child prodigies), or people like di vinci, newton, einstein, hawkings, how "smart" us regular people are is just how much stuff u know, and the only way to know more stuff is to study more

 

[bolnoi]

lol what does iq have to do with this...if stephen hawkings took the mcat right now, sure he'll rape the physics section, but how would he fare on orgo, or maybe even bio? smart=knowledge and knowledge=effort u put forth to obtain it.

the only time i see that a person is "smarter" than someone else is when they're able to learn stuff more easility than others and think outside of the box and more in an abstract manner, a higher intellectual capacity or someting, which u cannot measure with a written test. these people are those with crazy brain diseases that make them smarter, or people like di vinci, newton, einstein, hawkings, how "smart" us regular people are is just how much stuff u know, and the only way to know more stuff is to study more

i'm sure if he had taken ochem and biology courses, he wouldn't find bio section any more difficult than physics. if you can "learn stuff more easily than others" and get a 4.0gpa, you should also be able to pawn mcat. yet most premeds are lucky to get a 30-35.