How soon can you reschedule orals?

[WashMe]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Took Applied exam a couple days ago. The more I reflect on some of what I said, the more it suggests to me that... I could have explained things better. Without saying anything specific/banned, I encountered a lot of what I would call “non-clinical” questions, such as basic science and very technical aspects of monitoring equipment. Surely killed no patients, but it was like death by a thousand papercuts in there. This is 100% a knowledge-based test, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

Anyway, the ABA site had a pdf that suggested you could reschedule 4 months after a failure, but do you guys know if that means I could take it again this year (after July) or will I have to wait until next year regardless?

 

[deleted171991]

Took Applied exam a couple days ago. The more I reflect on some of what I said, the more it suggests to me that... I could have explained things better. Without saying anything specific/banned, I encountered a lot of what I would call “non-clinical” questions, such as basic science and very technical aspects of monitoring equipment. Surely killed no patients, but it was like death by a thousand papercuts in there. This is 100% a knowledge-based test, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

Anyway, the ABA site had a pdf that suggested you could reschedule 4 months after a failure, but do you guys know if that means I could take it again this year (after July) or will I have to wait until next year regardless?

Took me 5 minutes:

Candidates who do not take or do not pass the APPLIED Examination for which they are scheduled, for whatever reason, may schedule their next APPLIED Examination no earlier than four months following the current scheduled examination

http://www.theaba.org/PDFs/BOI/2018-Policy-Book on page 33. This is the policy book, so this is the Law.

Unfortunately, there is an about 90% chance of passing that exam, so don't fret.

 

[pgg]

Took Applied exam a couple days ago. The more I reflect on some of what I said, the more it suggests to me that... I could have explained things better. Without saying anything specific/banned, I encountered a lot of what I would call “non-clinical” questions, such as basic science and very technical aspects of monitoring equipment. Surely killed no patients, but it was like death by a thousand papercuts in there. This is 100% a knowledge-based test, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

Anyway, the ABA site had a pdf that suggested you could reschedule 4 months after a failure, but do you guys know if that means I could take it again this year (after July) or will I have to wait until next year regardless?

Knowledge is a prerequisite, sure. I don't know why anyone would think it's not. By far the single most recurring point that was driven home during public exam debriefs at the oral board review course I took was knowledge gaps. People did dumb or dangeorus or simply wrong things because they didn't know not to. You can't display good judgment and adaptability if you don't know what to do and why in the first place. But it's not quite right to say it's 100% a knowledge exam.

Anyway, if you're confident that the questions you missed were more esoteric grab bag kind of questions ... you probably passed.

 

[acidbase1]

Took me 5 minutes:

http://www.theaba.org/PDFs/BOI/2018-Policy-Book on page 33. This is the policy book, so this is the Law.

Unfortunately, there is an about 90% chance of passing that exam, so don't fret.

I thought the fail rate for orals was MUCH higher than written

 

[crash2500]

Took it today... Made one glaring mistake with a big part of the anesthetic that i corrected after a few questions by the examiner to steer me down the right path. I would have said probable pass but now I I'm not so sure... Sigh

 

[crash2500]

Washme, if I remember correctly didn't you score high 40's on the ite? Ya I think your knowledge should be fine

 

[agammaglobulin]

I called the ABA to push back my exam date and they said they're booked for 2018. So if you/we fail, it might be a bit longer than 4 months before we can take it again.

 

[kidthor]

Took Applied exam a couple days ago. The more I reflect on some of what I said, the more it suggests to me that... I could have explained things better.

I was sure I failed... and yet I passed. Does anyone really think they passed the thing in the following dreadful days? (and do we want to be friends with such narcissists?) Anyway I bet you passed...

 

[narcusprince]

No narcissist here but I was sure I passed. It helped that the person I swip swapped staff with for my orals was someone I went to residency with and did mock orals with over facetime. I was sure when I left the room she said the exact same things that I said. Her and I took 8-10 mock orals together over skype. It was crazy when we lined up at the doors I saw her at the opposite swip swap room and I knew I was good.

 

[San Marzano]

I signed up for my exam a little over a month ago and exam dates are booked at least through April 2019. The ABA is a scam.

 

[WashMe]

Thanks for the reply about the four month thing, I had actually seen that, but I didn’t know if that applied to when you can register or when you can take the thing. Sounds like availability is a bigger issue than whatever the policy would say. And yeah I did score high 40s on the IT from CA1 year forward, but it did not help me this week.

 

[deleted171991]

The oral boards are not only a knowledge exam, but also a judgment and experience one. People don't realize how much it matters to have been exposed to the exact type of case before. From this standpoint, it's a pity we don't have a minimal practice requirement to register for the exam (e.g. 2 years).

That's why it's important to read and think about as many types of cases and co-existing diseases as possible, preferably during residency. Every case every day should be planned in an if-then-else manner, with a lot of what-if scenarios, exhausting as many scenarios as possible, even if not likely. Get comfortable with doing every single type of case, in every possible manner, and then the oral board exam will be simply about sharing your own knowledge and experience, just a friendly chat.

Almost nothing beats experience, except for luck. Not even knowledge. It drives me crazy when my CA-3 residents know just one way to do things, a few months before graduation. They "need" etomidate for inducing certain cases, or arterial lines, they only know to provide analgesia with certain opiates etc., because it's the [famous program] way they were taught for 3 years. And they don't know how to listen, how to learn from the experience of their attendings.

When people ask what's the best course to pass the oral boards, there is one that comes into mind: their residency. Every day, every case. Even the cocky arses who I wouldn't allow to provide anesthesia for me still pass their boards, so don't worry. The odds ratio is 9:1. Scary!

</rant>

 

[WashMe]

When everyone talks about the “a**holes” and “*****s” who pass, it does nothing but insult the people who don’t pass. It is also not reassuring, because it only makes the process and grading seem arbitrary.

When I took the test they showed a video, which is also on the website, that said 2 weeks until results. Looking back at posts from several years back, people had to wait 4+ weeks. Anyone have guesses on what sort of timeline to realistically expect? OSCE throws a wrench into things, but I wonder how long it took last year to get SOE results...

 

[deleted171991]

When everyone talks about the “a**holes” and “*****s” who pass, it does nothing but insult the people who don’t pass. It is also not reassuring, because it only makes the process and grading seem arbitrary.

Even the best can fail this exam. So don't feel bad about it, unless it becomes a habit.

 

[ambiturner]

I would wait until you have a failed result in hand before you do this, most people think they failed and most people actually passed (both were true of me). We tend only to dwell on what we think we missed and not on what we did well. You also may have gotten esoteric questions because the examiners had already gotten through their material and were looking to fill the time.

 

[narcotics999]

First, your chance to pass is very high. Don't worry too much.

Second, your chance to schedule again for 2018 is minimal. It does not matter how soon.

 

[acidbase1]

First, your chance to pass is very high. Don't worry too much.

Second, your chance to schedule again for 2018 is minimal. It does not matter how soon.

Again, I was under the impression orals had a higher fail rate than writtens, anyone have legit stats?

 

[crash2500]

80-85% for first time candidates

 

[vector2]

The oral boards are not only a knowledge exam, but also a judgment and experience one. People don't realize how much it matters to have been exposed to the exact type of case before. From this standpoint, it's a pity we don't have a minimal practice requirement to register for the exam (e.g. 2 years).

That's why it's important to read and think about as many types of cases and co-existing diseases as possible, preferably during residency. Every case every day should be planned in an if-then-else manner, with a lot of what-if scenarios, exhausting as many scenarios as possible, even if not likely. Get comfortable with doing every single type of case, in every possible manner, and then the oral board exam will be simply about sharing your own knowledge and experience, just a friendly chat.

Almost nothing beats experience, except for luck. Not even knowledge. It drives me crazy when my CA-3 residents know just one way to do things, a few months before graduation. They "need" etomidate for inducing certain cases, or arterial lines, they only know to provide analgesia with certain opiates etc., because it's the [famous program] way they were taught for 3 years. And they don't know how to listen, how to learn from the experience of their attendings.

When people ask what's the best course to pass the oral boards, there is one that comes into mind: their residency. Every day, every case. Even the cocky arses who I wouldn't allow to provide anesthesia for me still pass their boards, so don't worry. The odds ratio is 9:1. Scary!

</rant>

I agree in theory with the prospect of actually having some attending level clinical experience under your belt before taking an oral, but I think in the age of super specialization it just isn't feasible. Does a full time pain guy stand a chance of passing the exam 2 years out? One of my buddies is doing 100% critical care after fellowship- he's pretty sharp but he would still have to study his ass off and take a review course since his 2 yrs of clinical experience would have little to do with passing an average oral exam. Hell, even 8 months into CCM fellowship I found myself getting rusty when it came to a lot of general anesthesia esoterica and I had to dive back into Yao and jaffe before my exam.

 

[Shimmy8]

Test coming up soon. Haven’t done peds, OB, or cardiac since residency. Dusting off cobwebs 8-10 months out is hard enough, much less another year.

Oh, and the TEE portion of the OSCE. :🙄:

 

[deleted171991]

Respectfully, one shouldn't be board-certified in anesthesiology if one doesn't know how to practice most of it.

I do believe that we all should practice as much of it as possible (and preferably solo), right after residency, to develop good attending-level thinking. Then, and only then, switch to 100% pain/CCM/whatever.

However, there should be the alternative of pure subspecialty certification in CCM or pain for those who don't want to practice anesthesiology. Especially since, for example, one will have a much better career doing 100% CCM than trying to do both.

Also, this brings up the question whether all fellowships should be done immediately after residency (especially those that are basically other specialties).

 

[dannyboy1]

[QUOTE="FFP, post: 19798140, member: 17199

Also, this brings up the question whether all fellowships should be done immediately after residency (especially those that are basically other specialties).[/QUOTE]
no way I could go back to working for 60k a year after earning close to 400 as an attending. Even if I really wanted to I just .... couldn’t.

 

[pgg]

Respectfully, one shouldn't be board-certified in anesthesiology if one doesn't know how to practice most of it.

Well put.

Generalists don't get no respect, but it's not exactly an easy path. 🙂

Also, this brings up the question whether all fellowships should be done immediately after residency (especially those that are basically other specialties).

Pros & cons ...

As you know, I went back to fellowship after a few years. My circumstances were unusual in that as a military guy still on the military payroll, there was no opportunity cost or pay cut involved. That's a huge disincentive for people who have been out for a while and have a secure job and perhaps are partners someplace.

Lots of pros of course. General comfort with practice, good judgement learned from bad experience. Being board certified frees up substantial time and stress that fresh grads spend preparing for the written and oral exams.

An obvious con is going from a position of autonomy and by-default respect to being a trainee again. I imagine this alone dissuades a lot of people from returning for more training, particularly people who endured malignant residency programs and have justifiably turned their back and slammed the door on academia. I lean toward the mellow side, but even so there were times as a fellow when I asked myself just WTF I was thinking when I gave up my cushy attending life to be a fellow. But I think for most people this is a lot less of a big deal than it's made out to be. I mostly found it pretty easy to re-embrace the supervised learner role, and I was genuinely glad to have experienced, smart people there to teach me and back me up.

A less obvious con that I experienced first hand was that in some respects, I was behind my co-fellows who were new grads. I hadn't done any cardiac anesthesia in years. Almost no TEE. They were all coming out of strong residency programs where they'd at least done a few dozen of those cases in the previous year ... I know that a couple of the faculty regarded me as on the weak end of the class, at least for a while. (Which didn't exactly hurt my tender feelings, since I was there for me and not them, but it added a layer of unpleasantness to the experience nonetheless. I got over it.) The same phenomenon surely exists for people who go do a pain or CCM or peds fellowship after several years of doing no pain or ICU work, or only healthy peds ENT.

In the grand scheme of things my general opinion is that the best path is probably fellowship immediately after residency, and then a job providing solo care doing everything for at least a little while before limiting one's practice to one area.

 

[deleted171991]

no way I could go back to working for 60k a year after earning close to 400 as an attending. Even if I really wanted to I just .... couldn’t.

It's not (just) the money. @pgg put it very well. It's mostly the lack of respect, being treated like a lowly trainee. I actually wrote up a surgical attending who verbally abused me in public, for not immediately answering his unimportant messages in the middle of the night, while I was busy with some really sick patients. He got the message: don't treat a board-certified ICU fellow as if he were one of your minions.

Mostly, this was not an issue. Best year of my GME. I think it mattered a lot that I went into it after having been passionate about the field for years, so I already had a good amount of pre-existing specialty knowledge, I didn't waste time on the boards, and I was just happy to be there and be taught by some smart people.

I still think that board certification should not happen right after residency, though it's probably the best time to do a fellowship. Among others, why does the ABA dilute the fellowship experience with studying for the boards? Just to make more money?

And my hat off to all the true generalists!

 

[Robotic Wis-Hipple]

Test coming up soon. Haven’t done peds, OB, or cardiac since residency. Dusting off cobwebs 8-10 months out is hard enough, much less another year.

Oh, and the TEE portion of the OSCE. :🙄:

I’m assuming you’re a chronic pain fellow, I think you guys/gals have it the worst for sure when preparing for the Orals. But in regards to TEE in the OSCE, while I think in the future all Anesthesia programs should heavily train TTE and at least some monitoring TEE I can’t imagine the TEE clips in your OSCE being anything but blatantly obvious for anyone that knows what a heart looks like because we just aren’t there yet.

 

[aneftp]

In the mid 1990s the passing rate for both the written and oral exams was as low as the low 70s percent passing rate to low 80s.

These days the passing rate for first time test takers is mid 80s percent.

So are people getting smarter? Or just smarter at test taking.

And no. Before u say the mid 1990s was bad residents due to shortage of jobs. That would be incorrect. Remember it’s a 4 year revolving cycle. So those finishing in 1994-1996 went into anesthesia are it’s peak demand. (1990-1992). Highly competitive classes. The low end was those entering anesthesia in 1996 (thus finishing in 2000).

 

[vector2]

In the mid 1990s the passing rate for both the written and oral exams was as low as the low 70s percent passing rate to low 80s.

These days the passing rate for first time test takers is mid 80s percent.

So are people getting smarter? Or just smarter at test taking.

And no. Before u say the mid 1990s was bad residents due to shortage of jobs. That would be incorrect. Remember it’s a 4 year revolving cycle. So those finishing in 1994-1996 went into anesthesia are it’s peak demand. (1990-1992). Highly competitive classes. The low end was those entering anesthesia in 1996 (thus finishing in 2000).

I would say it's higher because they started standardizing the general algorithm for working through a stem and curving based on the historical difficulty of the examiner.

 

[acidbase1]

In the mid 1990s the passing rate for both the written and oral exams was as low as the low 70s percent passing rate to low 80s.

These days the passing rate for first time test takers is mid 80s percent.

So are people getting smarter? Or just smarter at test taking.

And no. Before u say the mid 1990s was bad residents due to shortage of jobs. That would be incorrect. Remember it’s a 4 year revolving cycle. So those finishing in 1994-1996 went into anesthesia are it’s peak demand. (1990-1992). Highly competitive classes. The low end was those entering anesthesia in 1996 (thus finishing in 2000).

Quality of residents entering Anesthesia are at a all time high, our program has had the highest AVERAGE board scores in history applying, mid 230s. (Some had 250s and we saw a couple 260s) These are applicants who could match surgical sub specialties (some not all). The ITE scores are also at an all time high. What use to be the 99th percentile is like the 80th

 

[aneftp]

Quality of residents entering Anesthesia are at a all time high, our program has had the highest AVERAGE board scores in history applying, mid 230s. (Some had 250s and we saw a couple 260s) These are applicants who could match surgical sub specialties (some not all). The ITE scores are also at an all time high. What use to be the 99th percentile is like the 80th

The 1990 entering class (those finishing anesthesia residency by 1994) (remember anesthesia income was still extremely lucrative) class was high quality.

Average board scores mean very little unless compared to same cohorts). Aka. Compare entering anesthesia residents board scores 1990 vs 1990 derm residents board scores. So saying 260 means nothing with comparing same medical school class vs other specialities

And compare 2017 anesthesia residents board scores vs 2017 derm residents board scores.

I’m just wondering why we have 86-88% first time passing rates these days.

I think the aba just decides to pass more people rather than people being higher quality.

Remember medical school is EASIER TO GET into these days since they got 17 new lcme med schools within the past 15-17 years. So the “record number of applicants” is very misleading

46k applicants for med school in 1995/1996 for 16k slots. Vs “record 50k? Applicants for 22k med school slots in 2016?” Get my drift?

 

[acidbase1]

^^^ not true. I’ve had an actual former board examiner tell me the applicants back in the day we’re sh** compared to what they’re seeing now. PDs during interviews said the same. Attendings have told me the same. Another attending who owns a board prep course also has said the same. Higher quality residents, period. The scores on ITEs are at an all time high right now. You may be able to attribute this to better prep material (ie qbanks or what not), but the evidence is clear and obvious. Higher quality residents are choosing a once lowly sought after specialty.

I have been told Anesthesia was in very high demand in the 90s, it probably just wasn’t as prounounced as it has been the past 5-10 years

 

[aneftp]

^^^ not true. I’ve had an actual former board examiner tell me the applicants back in the day we’re sh** compared to what they’re seeing now. PDs during interviews said the same. Attendings have told me the same. Another attending who owns a board prep course also has said the same. Higher quality residents, period. The scores on ITEs are at an all time high right now. You may be able to attribute this to better prep material (ie qbanks or what not), but the evidence is clear and obvious. Higher quality residents are choosing a once lowly sought after specialty.

I have been told Anesthesia was in very high demand in the 90s, it probably just wasn’t as prounounced as it has been the past 5-10 years

I wished I still have the match data from 1990. There were around 1000-1100 slots and all of them filled.

High quality applicants in the late 1980s/early part of 1990s due to lucrative income.

Big drop off during the 1996-1998 years (the interviewing class). Those finishing 2000-2002.

So my point is why were the passing scores not high for those finishing 1993-1995?

I just think the Aba is making it easier to pass overall.

Most new grads don’t even realize in the past if u failed ur written or orals 3x. U go all the way back to not even being eligible and having to pass the inservice exam JUST TO BE ELIGIBLE for the written exam again (even though u PASSED the real written exam). The aba MADE U retake inservice plus another written exam just to retake the oral board!

 

[AdmiralChz]

I wished I still have the match data from 1990. There were around 1000-1100 slots and all of them filled.

High quality applicants in the late 1980s/early part of 1990s due to lucrative income.

Big drop off during the 1996-1998 years (the interviewing class). Those finishing 2000-2002.

So my point is why were the passing scores not high for those finishing 1993-1995?

I just think the Aba is making it easier to pass overall.

Most new grads don’t even realize in the past if u failed ur written or orals 3x. U go all the way back to not even being eligible and having to pass the inservice exam JUST TO BE ELIGIBLE for the written exam again (even though u PASSED the real written exam). The aba MADE U retake inservice plus another written exam just to retake the oral board!

Today, most programs won’t let you advance/you’re out if you can’t pass the BASIC in 3 tries. Some, like my program, only gave you two opportunities.

I see the averages for board scores and the like in Anesthesiology, and I am convinced there is a bi-modal distribution. At our program (a reputable program in the South, but probably not on any top 10 lists), our average interviewee USMLE Step 1 score increased by 10-15 points in just the 4 years I was there. We even made a soft cutoff at 230, and a hard one at 220 and had tons of applicants left. The applicant pool continued to get more and more impressive subjectively, and I was on the committee my last two years. This just isn’t in line with NRMP data and I am sure other programs are more competitive so the lower programs are likely bringing the average down, I would think.

Someone posted on getting into medical school and how it’s gotten easier. That’s just wrong - it’s still exceedingly competitive, it MAYBE leveled off a couple of years ago but it’s still quite difficult (compare this to JD and MBAs where some schools can’t even beg people to matriculate and entire programs are closing). I am sure there is some data out there on this, I’ll try to find some info later tonight about it.

 

[pgg]

I wished I still have the match data from 1990. There were around 1000-1100 slots and all of them filled.

High quality applicants in the late 1980s/early part of 1990s due to lucrative income.

Big drop off during the 1996-1998 years (the interviewing class). Those finishing 2000-2002.

Yep, the nadir was a 46% pass rate in 2000.

So my point is why were the passing scores not high for those finishing 1993-1995?

I just think the Aba is making it easier to pass overall.

I don't. What I think you're missing is that the test prep materials are MASSIVELY better now than they were even 10 years ago.

There were NO qbanks when I was a resident 2006-2009. The state of the art was Hall (old even then), some "remembered questions" in Big Blue, and the 1993-1995 released exams from the ABA (which had no explanations).

I built an online qbank for my program in 2006 based on the released ABA exams that had rudimentary subject sorting, error tracking, metrics ... it was a game changer for us but I didn't share it with the world for fear of ABA copyright lawyers. These days you cough up a couple hundred bucks and far better resources are out there.

There are only so many questions about anesthesia that it's possible to ask. Today's residents may or may not be smarter but they absolutely get better test prep.

Most new grads don’t even realize in the past if u failed ur written or orals 3x. U go all the way back to not even being eligible and having to pass the inservice exam JUST TO BE ELIGIBLE for the written exam again (even though u PASSED the real written exam). The aba MADE U retake inservice plus another written exam just to retake the oral board!

That change was driven by ABMS not the ABA.

 

[acidbase1]

Agreed Pgg, the prep material is way better than it use to be and the overall level of applicants are stronger. This correlates with better pass rates. They definitely aren’t making it “easier” to pass.

Not to mention we have to take a board exam CA1 year, which is horrible. Then advanced with was brutally more difficult than the ITE or traditional written boards. Add on orals plus the OSCE, we definitely have a more difficult path to board certification.

 

[aneftp]

Yep, the nadir was a 46% pass rate in 2000.



I don't. What I think you're missing is that the test prep materials are MASSIVELY better now than they were even 10 years ago.

There were NO qbanks when I was a resident 2006-2009. The state of the art was Hall (old even then), some "remembered questions" in Big Blue, and the 1993-1995 released exams from the ABA (which had no explanations).

I built an online qbank for my program in 2006 based on the released ABA exams that had rudimentary subject sorting, error tracking, metrics ... it was a game changer for us but I didn't share it with the world for fear of ABA copyright lawyers. These days you cough up a couple hundred bucks and far better resources are out there.

There are only so many questions about anesthesia that it's possible to ask. Today's residents may or may not be smarter but they absolutely get better test prep.


That change was driven by ABMS not the ABA.

Gotcha thx for explanation.

Guess abms will soon mandate q6 Years recertification soon than as well!

 

[acidbase1]

I went to Jensen’s review course and it was absolutely horrible. I feel sorry for you old folks who solely had that to depend on

 

[BLADEMDA]

We had very limited resources back in the day. Typically, just the old ABA questions and our ITE questions. Jensen was one of the better review classes.

One major point to make was that you could practice in the 1990s and early 2000 without being Board Certified. The 5 year rule for Board Certification (a typical rule) upon graduation didn't exist at many hospitals. Hence, there was not the INCENTIVE there is today to study your arse off and pass the exams. That said, I was fortunate to be in a top program with highly motivated Residents who wanted to crush the exam not just pass it. That same knowledge goes with you to the other exams so being smart and well prepared helps with the Orals. Real world experience takes time depending on case mix and volume so this may mean years rather than 1 year of cases.

 

[Robotic Wis-Hipple]

It’s definitely the advancement of test prep resources, hell, a lot of residents these days don’t even read Anesthesiology texts, they simply buy year subscriptions to qbanks and do those. I’m not saying that’s better for overall real world knowledge, but it certainly makes for better test scores.

And as far as the orals, I think it’s got to be pretty difficult to fail, either you had a really bad day and your nerves got you making you unable to compose sentences, or you blatantly went against any semblance of standard of care.

 

[Star2285]

Hi- I am taking the orals in October. I am beyond nervous (hate speaking in front of others). I am doing JOB (26 mock orals), but reading UPB because I dont think the JOB manual is detailed enough. My question is- UPB goes into SO much more detail than the questions i am being asked during the JOB mocks. Would you say they go into as much detail about very specific diseases as they do in UPB? The two programs are giving me very different vibes. Thanks.

 

[pgg]

Hi- I am taking the orals in October. I am beyond nervous (hate speaking in front of others). I am doing JOB (26 mock orals), but reading UPB because I dont think the JOB manual is detailed enough. My question is- UPB goes into SO much more detail than the questions i am being asked during the JOB mocks. Would you say they go into as much detail about very specific diseases as they do in UPB? The two programs are giving me very different vibes. Thanks.

I don't have an opinion on which review course to take, but if you have a lot of anxiety speaking publicly, try getting a prescription for propranolol. Lots of performance artists take 10-20 mg of it for stage fright issues, and the oral boards are performance art. It absolutely will settle you down, kill the tremors, squash the catecholamine surge. Seriously, try it.

 

[narcotics999]

I don't have an opinion on which review course to take, but if you have a lot of anxiety speaking publicly, try getting a prescription for propranolol. Lots of performance artists take 10-20 mg of it for stage fright issues, and the oral boards are performance art. It absolutely will settle you down, kill the tremors, squash the catecholamine surge. Seriously, try it.

Is this doping?

 

[pgg]

Is this doping?

Well, the International Olympic Committee considers it a performance enhancing drug and its use is banned in athletes, so yes. 🙂

 

[nimbus]

Well, the International Olympic Committee considers it a performance enhancing drug and its use is banned in athletes, so yes. 🙂

Does that mean the ABA can take away your certificate if they find out?😉

 

[lizzers729]

Hi- I am taking the orals in October. I am beyond nervous (hate speaking in front of others). I am doing JOB (26 mock orals), but reading UPB because I dont think the JOB manual is detailed enough. My question is- UPB goes into SO much more detail than the questions i am being asked during the JOB mocks. Would you say they go into as much detail about very specific diseases as they do in UPB? The two programs are giving me very different vibes. Thanks.

I took mine a few months ago. I used UPB almost exclusively and passed; I highly recommend getting through as much of UBP as you can. I think overall, the answers are overly detailed, but that is what makes them worth it. Your answers on the real test will be a lot shorter but having the knowledge base gives you the confidence to walk in there and answer the questions correctly, as well as provide additional supporting information if asked (and just having read the information helps it stick somewhere in your brain). I also was super nervous... definitely recommend the propranolol idea from above. I'd also recommend trying it a time or two before the day of just to see how it makes you feel. Also, do a ton of mock orals with people who make you feel uncomfortable, and you'll be fine day of.

 

[DM27]

I personally found the orals to be a mildly fun, but definitely stressful experience. I hated the OSCE. I personally found the best way to approach the test is it's not a choose your own adventure and it is not necessarily logical. You are basically playing a verbal game on rails. For the most part whatever happens in the "case" happens regardless of your prior answers or decisions so you can't really look back on how you did it, and using the flow of the case to dictate your performance in real time will likely not be effective and just trip you up.

I viewed the oral boards as essentially a number of non-sequitur questions that were attempted to have some semblance of cohesion by being jammed into a clinical scenario. This approach made me a lot less jarred by interruptions and sudden abrupt changes in things because I was overall not viewing this as how a case naturally proceeds ,and it also kept me from getting involved or invested in it (contrary to how a high-fidelity simulation would proceed). I felt this allowed me to remain fairly objective and clinical in my responses.

In terms of prep: PRACTICE. I did all of a UBP bootleg with some friends, these scenarios do NOT represent the exam well, but do provide an excellent content overview. I spent the remaining few weeks exclusively going over the old ABA practice stems that are floating around. These scenarios mirror the exam flow almost perfectly, but they do not include any "answers" or "teaching points" so it's more of an excellent practice source but poor teaching.