How the hell does one get out of retail?

[joetrisman]

Well, it was worth it to me. The residency credential, a bit of ambition and a little risk taking lead to a job that's not available without extensive hospital experience. The break-even vs the typical retail pay is somewhere between 2-3 years.

Like any credential/training, it opens doors, but you can't just sit back and expect the goose that laid the golden egg to walk out of that door to you.

No?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Travex]

Well, I completely derailed this topic. Main point was, retail pharmacists can't just take BCPS certification and jump into a clinical position. I am not saying they wouldn't be capable but with the job market the way it is, most (if not, all) employers would be unwilling to give them a chance. Learning on the job is quickly becoming a thing of the past in our profession. I'm sure everyone here would love it if they abolished the residency system altogether but not much we can do about it. The employers have the power to do what they want with this saturation.

 

[confettiflyer]

Absolutely. I worked my way up from staffing. I have been an emergency medicine pharmacist and currently work as a clinical icu specialist. I will be taking BCPS this year....a little longer than I wanted bc I spent some of that time in medicine. I don't buy any resident thinking their better than me. I have the experience I learned through the school of hard knocks. You will continually learn as a pharmacist...its our profession. Whether you get their a bit faster through residency or take your time...your no better either way (even though some residents come out with that mentality). All I want is respect for what i have accomplished and do on a daily basis. I have b/n 300-400 interventions a month and that is in a medium size hospital. Much of this seems to be forgotten now a days with the surplus.

Again, refer to my "sucks to be you" post. For many in saturated markets, this door of working your way up without residency in a hospital is simply closed (exceptions abound, of course...waiting for the n=1 posts).

Hospitals just aren't physically hiring non-residency trained new grads due to the glut of PGY1's in some markets...might get better in the winter months when supply is different, but why bother hiring a new grad when a DOP has their pick of PGY1's?

Seasoned pharmacists operate in a different market, residency trained or not.

 

[Angela1234]

I'm going to start saying my prayers every night. However, I could get a nonretail job and have a really mean boss, but retail gets you ready for that, because a lot of my coworkers, bosses, and customers were really nasty.

 

[twester]

I am not posting for myself but I have a lot of friends who are miserable in retail! For those of you who got out, how did you do it? Network like mad? Go back to do a residency?

They should consider themselves lucky to have jobs.

 

[Dalteparin]

Lmoa... 3 years of clinical experience. Every time I hear that my eyes roll way back into my head.

Hospital sucks just as much. Replace the bitchy customers with bitchy nurses. Replace insurance calls with med rec sheets. You get paid less, too. I went from 50:50 clinical:staff to overnight pharmacy in retail (I fell ass backwards into it, let's be honest) and all I know is that I have half the stress and about 40% more pay.

Meh... I'd rather deal with 10 bitchy nurses and 10 med rec sheets than one insurance company (which is why I work hospital). It all depends on you and what kind of BS you can tolerate.

 

[dariasea]

A residency is just a low paying on the job training.

 

[confettiflyer]

A residency is just a low paying on the job training.

Yup, that's what I signed up for.

Why do people still post this when it's some new revelation?

Hey! bears **** in the woods!

 

[UHpharmd13]

Not necessarily true...I have friends in the Houston and Dallas area that started off making ~115,000 at private hospitals first year out of residency. They have M-F jobs with normal hours. Seems worth it to me.

 

[MountainPharmD]

Blood in Blood out. There is no other way.....

 

[Sparda29]

Meh... I'd rather deal with 10 bitchy nurses and 10 med rec sheets than one insurance company (which is why I work hospital). It all depends on you and what kind of BS you can tolerate.

I've never had to do a med rec sheet on any rotations while I was in school and none as a pharmacist.

 

[confettiflyer]

I've never had to do a med rec sheet on any rotations while I was in school and none as a pharmacist.

that's weird to me, and you had 2 years of rotations? i would think it would have popped up at least once.

besides, med rec should be the domain of technicians and interns/students...pharmacists shouldn't be wasting time doing them.

 

[Jazztastic]

for a retail pharmacist, is it a good option to volunteer part-time (no pay) as a pharmacist to get your foot through the door for an inpatient hospital pharmacy? would that give one a good chance if there is an opening?
OR
is it better to find a temp agency that pays to get your foot through the door for inpatient hospital pharmacy?

 

[Sparda29]

that's weird to me, and you had 2 years of rotations? i would think it would have popped up at least once.

besides, med rec should be the domain of technicians and interns/students...pharmacists shouldn't be wasting time doing them.

I've seen the med rec sheets, but they were always done by the nurses in every hospital I've been to.

 

[Angela1234]

Jazztastic, any and all of the above. Whatever it takes to get a foot in the door.

 

[Singuy]

For the op

1. First way is to go back to residency
2. Or, find a small hospital that's in the middle of nowhere just to get your feet wet, and then apply to a bigger hospital later.

This all depends on how many years out of school you are...3+ years, go back to residency, 2 years and under..try your luck with a smaller hospital. Most hospitals lack trust in the rph's ability to understand lab works or make on the spot interventions with MDs if they are out in retail for too long.

Every hospital is different and it depends on the clinical service required for that specific hospital. Some hospitals will make you into a glorified data entry person, while others require you to go on rounds every morning (yes even as a staff pharmacist).

Also your success depends on how proactive you were in retail. If you provided A+ MTM services to all your pts, read all the newest articles and bathed yourself in pharmacy information day in day out, then you shouldn't have a problem jumping into a hospital. However, I also knew retail RPHs with 28 years of experiences who circled NDC numbers all day, and forgot that a lisinopril is an ace inhibitor(he said it was a calcium channel blocker...yeahh....).

I've worked at Target for 9 months before becoming a clinical staff pharmacist. This was at a time when residency wasn't the end all be all. I feel like I have lost so much knowledge just by working in retail...but I sure knew the ndc number for metformin...

My current hosptial job is much more fulfilling. We calculate and titrate pulmonary hypertension meds, vancomycin, amioglycosides, insulin/pumps and iron dextran just to name a few. We also go on rounds with MDs, teach pt about warfarin/tikosyn/all heart failure meds, and participate in journal clubs with the pgys.

In contrast, I was trying to figure out how to get people to sign up for target credit cards in retail, while getting yelled at by the store managers because my credit card scores were too low...

My advice, get out of retail asap and get yourself some hospital experience so your choices wouldn't be so limited 10 years down the road. Sure the pay is slightly less, but at least you opened yourself to many more opportunities and freedom. Retail will always be there for you, but it's really hard to re-learn everything you have lost in retail after 10 years.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

besides, med rec should be the domain of technicians and interns/students...pharmacists shouldn't be wasting time doing them.

How, exactly? Can they really be trusted to analyze them and ensure proper drug therapy? A professional at some point has to look at it.

 

[VCU07]

I did Med recs as an essential part of my job when I worked in the ED. I had two students during that time and they both made big errors in doing them. Had i not looked at them they would have led to very dangerous situations. I can't even begin to tell you the incompetence of some of the techs i worked with.

 

[pharmd718]

Absolutely. I worked my way up from staffing. I have been an emergency medicine pharmacist and currently work as a clinical icu specialist. I will be taking BCPS this year....a little longer than I wanted bc I spent some of that time in medicine. I don't buy any resident thinking their better than me. I have the experience I learned through the school of hard knocks. You will continually learn as a pharmacist...its our profession. Whether you get their a bit faster through residency or take your time...your no better either way (even though some residents come out with that mentality). All I want is respect for what i have accomplished and do on a daily basis. I have b/n 300-400 interventions a month and that is in a medium size hospital. Much of this seems to be forgotten now a days with the surplus.

Brovo ....well said!

 

[pharmd718]

For the op

1. First way is to go back to residency
2. Or, find a small hospital that's in the middle of nowhere just to get your feet wet, and then apply to a bigger hospital later.

This all depends on how many years out of school you are...3+ years, go back to residency, 2 years and under..try your luck with a smaller hospital. Most hospitals lack trust in the rph's ability to understand lab works or make on the spot interventions with MDs if they are out in retail for too long.

Every hospital is different and it depends on the clinical service required for that specific hospital. Some hospitals will make you into a glorified data entry person, while others require you to go on rounds every morning (yes even as a staff pharmacist).

Also your success depends on how proactive you were in retail. If you provided A+ MTM services to all your pts, read all the newest articles and bathed yourself in pharmacy information day in day out, then you shouldn't have a problem jumping into a hospital. However, I also knew retail RPHs with 28 years of experiences who circled NDC numbers all day, and forgot that a lisinopril is an ace inhibitor(he said it was a calcium channel blocker...yeahh....).

I've worked at Target for 9 months before becoming a clinical staff pharmacist. This was at a time when residency wasn't the end all be all. I feel like I have lost so much knowledge just by working in retail...but I sure knew the ndc number for metformin...

My current hosptial job is much more fulfilling. We calculate and titrate pulmonary hypertension meds, vancomycin, amioglycosides, insulin/pumps and iron dextran just to name a few. We also go on rounds with MDs, teach pt about warfarin/tikosyn/all heart failure meds, and participate in journal clubs with the pgys.

In contrast, I was trying to figure out how to get people to sign up for target credit cards in retail, while getting yelled at by the store managers because my credit card scores were too low...

My advice, get out of retail asap and get yourself some hospital experience so your choices wouldn't be so limited 10 years down the road. Sure the pay is slightly less, but at least you opened yourself to many more opportunities and freedom. Retail will always be there for you, but it's really hard to re-learn everything you have lost in retail after 10 years.

*DING* *DING* *DING* ..........WE HAVE A WINNER!

.......................Loved the NDC for metformin remark

 

[PharmDstudent]

I've seen the med rec sheets, but they were always done by the nurses in every hospital I've been to.

Right. I've seen pharmacy interns and nurses do them but never pharmacists.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Right. I've seen pharmacy interns and nurses do them but never pharmacists.

Nurses do ours as well. Does that leave much to be desired? Of course. Now, when I was at the VA they had FTE pharmacists that did nothing but medrec all day, but government don't need to make a profit. This is what pharmacy schools fail miserably at teaching the students, most of business world comes down to dollars and cents. Check your idealized visions at the door and pick your battles.

 

[Stilltrying1288]

Nurses do ours as well. Does that leave much to be desired? Of course. Now, when I was at the VA they had FTE pharmacists that did nothing but medrec all day, but government don't need to make a profit. This is what pharmacy schools fail miserably at teaching the students, most of business world comes down to dollars and cents. Check your idealized visions at the door and pick your battles.

School can't teach all of that. If people by a certain age don't realize how the world works, they've probably either been living in a hole or naive.

 

[Dalteparin]

I've seen the med rec sheets, but they were always done by the nurses in every hospital I've been to.

At my hospital, the nurses do the initial med rec... and screw it up... and guess who gets to fix it? If you've never had to clean up a med trainwreck done by some idiot pre-surgery nurse, you are VERY fortunate!


[Disclaimer: No disrespect to RNs intended... you all do amazing work, just not on med rec.]

 

[NCW9682]

.

 

[Pharmavixen]

I got out of retail by going to work in a jail. It's been 17 years, and I'm still not missing handling money or customers screaming in my face because we've run out of the potato chips on sale, or their copay is too high.

 

[YourMD]

Doing a residency gave me a better schedule...I would not have my current position without it. I work the hours I want and have 4 weeks of vacation (having only been employed at my institution for 2 yrs). I don't have to deal with stupid RN calls, checking IVs, or anything like that. I'd much rather do clinical work as a pharmacist than retail or basement hospital.

Hey karm I'm curious what is your position?

 

[knight on horse]

Yes.. "work way up from staffing" implies older age. Times have moved on, in earnest

Sure, there could be that golden opportunity waiting for a golden boy - but then, you might as well have gotten hired as an intern / matched to a desired residency if you're that great and that set on pharmacy

 

[knight on horse]

Hmm.. owning at math, interacting with the docs, hitting on hot nurses, giving speeches and interviews

Makes hospital sound not too bad

 

[NCW9682]

I too am trying to do everything possible to avoid being stuck in retail. Im in pharmacy school and have worked in a hospital for just under 2 years. I have absolutely no interest in clinical (we have 50 pharmacists, one of which is clinical). We have pharmacists that have been here for 30+ years. The new pharmacists that work here all started as interns while in school. So all that joining as many clubs as you can crap just seems like a load of BS to me.

 

[pharmd 08902]

Retail pharmacist 5+ years looking to find out topics I would need to brush up on to land a per diem hospital position. Info needed for daily functions of a hospital pharmacy.

 

[Dr Wario]

Retail pharmacist 5+ years looking to find out topics I would need to brush up on to land a per diem hospital position. Info needed for daily functions of a hospital pharmacy.

I would recommend two general courses to help prepare you for the world of hospital pharmacy

1: Procedural guidelines on the proper technique of placing ones lips upon the gluteal muscles of your superior (101)
2. Navigating the turbulent aspects of the correct storage, handling and reconstitution of the excrement of the male bovine species (102)

That is all

 

[Son_Goku]

I would recommend two general courses to help prepare you for the world of hospital pharmacy

1: Procedural guidelines on the proper technique of placing ones lips upon the gluteal muscles of you superior (101)
2. Navigating the turbulent aspects correct storage, handling and reconstitution of the excrement of the male bovine species (102)

That is all

Goddamn.

Somebody get the bodybags.

 

[SClENCE]

Residency seems to me like a scam. Why work at half pay while accruing interest on student debt just for the opportunity to make significantly less money? There are jobs beyond retail that don't require a residency or even clinical knowledge for that matter.

Don't get me wrong, retail is no cakewalk but at least the bitchy customers come and go and you are the king of the castle while in the hospital you are dealing with the same bitchy nurse who thinks she's a doctor on a daily basis.

 

[Jbrl]

Residency seems to me like a scam. Why work at half pay while accruing interest on student debt just for the opportunity to make significantly less money? There are jobs beyond retail that don't require a residency or even clinical knowledge for that matter.

Don't get me wrong, retail is no cakewalk but at least the bitchy customers come and go and you are the king of the castle while in the hospital you are dealing with the same bitchy nurse who thinks she's a doctor on a daily basis.

For the clinical aspects. Some people don't see themselves being anywhere else - particularly retail. Money not as important. It's a way for people to have concrete evidence of clinical work on their resume, take the less risky path, fast-track their path to a clinical hospital job in a metro area, and/or shore up their qualifications amidst all the credential creep and oversupply that is not likely to change in the near future. If more and more hospitals will prefer or require PGY1 or PGY2, those without it will need to draw upon their personal networks or get left behind.

 

[FuturePharmD2]

USAJobs.gov like its your second job, it may take a while but you should eventually get an interview

 

[bacillus1]

We think we're special. On student research posters MD/DOs call themselves MS, OS, or medical student. DDS call themselves dental students. Vets call themselves veterinary students. Pharmacists call themselves PharmD Candidates. There's no reason to keep it consistent when they are two different things. Residencies are glorified rotations for pharmacists.

Notice, this is called the Student Doctor Network...so no, they do the same.

 

[gwarm01]

Look for jobs in smaller hospitals, non-teaching centers etc. Focus on your ability to manage workflow and employees, and your ability to research dosing or willingness to reach out to experienced colleagues. It's easier to get a hospital job fresh from school than as an experienced retail pharmacist, but I know plenty of people who have done it.

 

[BenJammin]

Notice, this is called the Student Doctor Network...so no, they do the same.

Yeah. Exactly. If you're a pharmacy student publishing an article, you better cite yourself as "Pharmacy Student".

 

[confettiflyer]

Yeah. Exactly. If you're a pharmacy student publishing an article, you better cite yourself as "Pharmacy Student".

I'm gonna write whatever my pharmacy overlords tell me to write, as a student. No use being a bitch for being a bitches sake.

 

[SELDANE]

Retail pharmacist 5+ years looking to find out topics I would need to brush up on to land a per diem hospital position. Info needed for daily functions of a hospital pharmacy.

The learning curve is not a great as you think. Have an appreciation or understanding of dilution. You'll be verifying compounded IV's and you'll want to know how much of whatever excipient was used to build the order. Also have a basic understanding of osmolarity, it's essential with respect to TPN's and with anything going to NICU or PICU. Keep in mind that just like in retail each hospital uses different software and it's going to take time to become familiar with it. Coming out of retail your employer should give you time to get up to speed.

 

[Farcus]

i really like how everyone here who haven't done a residency like to say its just project, guidelines, journal clubs and if you threw a community pharmacist in there after a couple years they'll magically be super awesome clinical pharmacist. Yes you're right but thats not what residency teaches you. Yes, you can probably find a community pharmacist that is highly self motivated and ambitious for such a job but the chances of this actually happening is very slim.

 

[moose10]

Did any of the resident pharmacists here get paid the base staff rate when they were putting in staffing hours in the pharmacy? This is how I believe it was at my old hospital...so for the ~10 or so hours of staffing you would make up some salary difference....

 

[PharmaSex]

No residency here. Had only 3 months hospital experience at one spot before I got axed then got another position at another place. Oh and I make more than the other two (the first was retail) jobs while doing A LOT less work. about 120K/year before my upcoming raise

 

[PharmaSex]

Worked retail for like 6 months before I switched to hospital...it was said that I interviewed well . It's only my second year since graduating