How to ask a letter writer nicely to hurry up?

[RussianJoo]

It's been a couple of weeks and there has been no word from my letter writers. I am getting a little worried because I really wanted to have my application complete by sept 1st. How do I remind them that they still haven't written my letter and that I really need their letters very soon.

I don't want to piss them off by being too pushy and then end up with a crappy letter.

thanks in advance for your ideas.

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[NotAProgDirector]

Ask their secretaries. Buy them flowers, or doughnuts, whichever seems like it will be more effective. Always be polite and self-effacing. If their secretary moves the letter request to the top of their stack, it will get done.

 

[Caesar11422]

Im having the exact same problem....my plan is on august first to shoot an email that begins with thanking them (again) for agreeing to write the letter then politely explaining that the deadline is fast approaching....im still working out the exact details but ur right its a very touchy issue....im hoping that these guys have written quite a few letters before and as people who were once long ago in my shoes they will understand the time sensitivity of these matters.

 

[SOUNDMAN]

you can still submit your application without having all your letters of recommendation in though. Atleast from my understanding.

 

[docdaname]

you can still submit your application without having all your letters of recommendation in though. Atleast from my understanding.

not only can you submit your application without your letters, you can get interviews before they are all in! at least i did. Have you given them a thank you note yet? In my opinion thats a good way to remind them! send them a thank you note saying how grateful you are that they are writing you a letter! Itll sometimes get them going.

 

[Winged Scapula]

While I agree with aPD's suggestions about how to get the letter faster, I think to expect it after only 2 weeks is unreasonable.

Frankly, I'd be a bit turned off that you were hounding me so soon after asking. If you do a search on this topic, you'll see that the conventional wisdom is that you should allow at least at month to get the letter.

Or as we say, lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.

And as others have noted, you don't have to have all your letters in by 9/1/09.

 

[Doctor Bob]

How do I remind them that they still haven't written my letter and that I really need their letters very soon.

Go to their office, kick in the door (it doesn't matter if they're in with a patient or not) and start flipping over tables. Then ask... no... demand that they write it now while you stand there and tell them what to say, or you'll break up their hands so severely that they'll never be able to write anything again unless they learn to hold a pen with their feet. By this point, if you intended letter writer hasn't soiled him/herself in fear, you're not shouting loudly enough. Consider showing them grainy polaroid crime scene photos of other people who didn't write you timely letters.

Option B, while less effective, is a little better from a P.R. standpoint. Wait a month after asking, then stop by their office (in person requests are always better than emails) at a time you know they are usually less busy, catch up (if they want to write you a nice letter, then they probably also are somewhat interested in knowing how 4th year is going for you), then just subtly remind them about the letter. Don't give them a deadline. A doc who will write you a good letter will get to it and have it in eventually.

Not everyone you ask will end up writing one. Don't expect 100% return rate on your requests for LORs. 70-80% might be more realistic.

 

[RussianJoo]

While I agree with aPD's suggestions about how to get the letter faster, I think to expect it after only 2 weeks is unreasonable.

Frankly, I'd be a bit turned off that you were hounding me so soon after asking. If you do a search on this topic, you'll see that the conventional wisdom is that you should allow at least at month to get the letter.

Or as we say, lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.

And as others have noted, you don't have to have all your letters in by 9/1/09.

yes well this letters are from my 4th year elective in the field i am applying to, and i did them as my first and second electives of 4th year. so it's not bad timing on my part it's just how things work out because those specialties are not cores.

 

[RussianJoo]

thanks for your help. i'll try talking to the secretaries.

 

[Winged Scapula]

yes well this letters are from my 4th year elective in the field i am applying to, and i did them as my first and second electives of 4th year. so it's not bad timing on my part it's just how things work out because those specialties are not cores.

I'm not sure how when you did the rotations or whether or not they are cores has anything to do with the admitted fact that you only asked for the letters 2 weeks ago and somehow its an emergency that you don't have them already.

Did you provide the letter writer your PS, a CV, etc. - information from which to write your letter?

I stand by my contention that 2 weeks is not long enough to expect an LOR.

 

[surg]

Why do you need their letters so soon if you are trying to get your app done by 9/1? Is all your stuff in already? 2 weeks is really the minimum time that one could even possibly expect a letter to get off my desk unless it was an emergency, which this isn't since you want your app ready by 9/1.

People seem to forget that attendings also have a ton of other stuff to do as well, and things get scheduled into a time when I can do it. Making me hurry the letter means that I don't have much time to write you a well thought out letter.

What can you do to help me get it done sooner and still get out a good letter?

1) give me a complete packet of all your info that I will need. that means a CV, an idea of your academic record, a draft personal statement (doesn't have to be final), and if it isn't immediately clear from your personal statement, I need to have an idea of your overall career goals (academics v. not, fellowship thoughts v. not, etc). Ideally, I already know you well enough to talk about you as a person, but if not, I need to meet with you for at least 20-30 minutes to remind myself of your greatest qualities.

2) give me all the paperwork I need to get your letter out (cover sheets with your ERAS number etc).

3) The date that you need it by noted prominently on the packet.

As to getting me to "hurry up" or to meet the deadline (which is really what you want). Having my assistant gently remind me is a good idea if she likes you. A short e-mail about 1 week before the deadline to say hi is ok to let me know that you have all your stuff in already and wanted to make sure I didn't need any more info to get my letter out in time is ok. Stopping by the office on a day that I am in (my assistant can tell you when that is) isn't a terrible idea either. If you know that I'm on service, contriving to bump into me in the hospital isn't a terrible idea either.

I know it's a stressful process for you so you are stressed and yes, attendings do sometimes forget to write the letter at all, so a reminder is not out of the question though. It hurts you much more than it hurts me if I forget, so most attendings are ok with a reminder and won't mind so long as it doesn't come off as demanding. Good luck.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thanks surg....good advice as usual.

 

[RussianJoo]

Why do you need their letters so soon if you are trying to get your app done by 9/1? Is all your stuff in already? 2 weeks is really the minimum time that one could even possibly expect a letter to get off my desk unless it was an emergency, which this isn't since you want your app ready by 9/1.

People seem to forget that attendings also have a ton of other stuff to do as well, and things get scheduled into a time when I can do it. Making me hurry the letter means that I don't have much time to write you a well thought out letter.

What can you do to help me get it done sooner and still get out a good letter?

1) give me a complete packet of all your info that I will need. that means a CV, an idea of your academic record, a draft personal statement (doesn't have to be final), and if it isn't immediately clear from your personal statement, I need to have an idea of your overall career goals (academics v. not, fellowship thoughts v. not, etc). Ideally, I already know you well enough to talk about you as a person, but if not, I need to meet with you for at least 20-30 minutes to remind myself of your greatest qualities.

2) give me all the paperwork I need to get your letter out (cover sheets with your ERAS number etc).

3) The date that you need it by noted prominently on the packet.

As to getting me to "hurry up" or to meet the deadline (which is really what you want). Having my assistant gently remind me is a good idea if she likes you. A short e-mail about 1 week before the deadline to say hi is ok to let me know that you have all your stuff in already and wanted to make sure I didn't need any more info to get my letter out in time is ok. Stopping by the office on a day that I am in (my assistant can tell you when that is) isn't a terrible idea either. If you know that I'm on service, contriving to bump into me in the hospital isn't a terrible idea either.

I know it's a stressful process for you so you are stressed and yes, attendings do sometimes forget to write the letter at all, so a reminder is not out of the question though. It hurts you much more than it hurts me if I forget, so most attendings are ok with a reminder and won't mind so long as it doesn't come off as demanding. Good luck.

thanks.. but for imgs ECFMG scans stuff onto ERAS for us not our school, and ECFMG can take up to 4 weeks to get it scanned to your application, thus i would like the letters asap.

How many of you actually write letters or have some standard letter all typed out and you just insert the students name and what specialty he/she is applying for. I, personally, would have 3 such letters and rank them as okay, mediocre and awesome student, and hand them out accordingly.

Also i have a manila folder with my name, email and cell phone on it that i give to all my letter writers the very same day that they agree to write me a letter; and inside is a photocopy of my id so that they can have a picture of me, a thank you/cover letter with instructions on what i need the attending to do with the letter, the ERAS LOR waiver form, my CV (which includes my step1 and 2 scores), addressed stamped envelope, and a PS. However, one of my attendings didn't want my CV and brought up a very good point. these are supposed to be LORs, you don't need to know how many publications a person has or what clubs he/she is a member of to write a good LOR, you just write about what the person did on your rotation and what as an attending you observed.

I personally think it take attendings no more than an hour to write an LOR, they're too busy to spend too much of time on them

 

[surg]

A good letter writer makes every letter a personal letter as best as he or she can. Yes, there are some stock phrases people fall back on, but if it isn't personalized, it's not worth my time to read it when I'm evaluating your application file. If anyone tells you they just fill in your name into a premade letter, get another letter. As someone who reads applications, I wouldn't give something that looked like that (and since I read applications EVERY year, I'd eventually catch on) any weight, and might consider it a negative actually.

I personally like having people's CV's, because they often have stuff in there I didn't know before, but can highlight/reinforce on their application. This is helpful in particular if I don't know you extremely well. But I understand the other perspective as well, and agree that you don't want a LOR to be a regurgitation of your CV.

 

[Elfy]

thanks.. but for imgs ECFMG scans stuff onto ERAS for us not our school, and ECFMG can take up to 4 weeks to get it scanned to your application, thus i would like the letters asap.

Also i have a manila folder with my name, email and cell phone on it that i give to all my letter writers the very same day that they agree to write me a letter; and inside is a photocopy of my id so that they can have a picture of me, a thank you/cover letter with instructions on what i need the attending to do with the letter, the ERAS LOR waiver form, my CV (which includes my step1 and 2 scores), addressed stamped envelope, and a PS.

Quote Winged Scapula:

Or as we say, lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.

And as others have noted, you don't have to have all your letters in by 9/1/09.

Just to echo Russian Joo's points:

How is it "lack of planning" on a FMG's part (whose designated dean's office is ECFMG) if ECFMG/ERAS only starts generating ERAS tokens, AAMC IDs and mandatory recommendation cover letters on July 1, and then strongly recommends that the letter writers get the letters in by August 1, warning candidates they take up to 4 weeks to scan documents? I don't know about AMGs (probably more or less the same situation minus the AAMC ID) but as a FMG even if I ask for a letter in June or in May or in January to show respect and consideration, I cannot physically submit my package to the letter writer until early July because I don't have an AAMC ID and a standard cover letter for his/her letter.

True, FMGs don't HAVE to have all LORs in by September 1, the way they don't HAVE to apply with the ECFMG certificate in hand (aka Steps 1, 2 CK, 2 CS and graduation verification). They MAY certainly apply just with Step 1 months from graduation like AMGs and see what happens. Most likely, they are being told, it will reflect on the number of interviews offered. FMGs are a lesser known quantity and they are repeatedly advised by the medical board, residency programs and third parties to submit all their documents early in order to maximize their chances.

This is not poor planning on the part of an individual applicant or another, this is an issue of multiple deadlines coordination which in part falls beyond the applicants' control.

 

[Elfy]

Why do you need their letters so soon if you are trying to get your app done by 9/1? Is all your stuff in already? 2 weeks is really the minimum time that one could even possibly expect a letter to get off my desk unless it was an emergency, which this isn't since you want your app ready by 9/1.

Because the real target date for LORs per announcements on the ERAS website is 8/1 not 9/1 (see above).

 

[Winged Scapula]

Quote Winged Scapula:

Just to echo Russian Joo's points:

How is it "lack of planning" on a FMG's part (whose designated dean's office is ECFMG) if ECFMG/ERAS only starts generating ERAS tokens, AAMC IDs and mandatory recommendation cover letters on July 1, and then strongly recommends that the letter writers get the letters in by August 1, warning candidates they take up to 4 weeks to scan documents? I don't know about AMGs (probably more or less the same situation minus the AAMC ID) but as a FMG even if I ask for a letter in June or in May or in January to show respect and consideration, I cannot physically submit my package to the letter writer until early July because I don't have an AAMC ID and a standard cover letter for his/her letter.

True, FMGs don't HAVE to have all LORs in by September 1, the way they don't HAVE to apply with the ECFMG certificate in hand (aka Steps 1, 2 CK, 2 CS and graduation verification). They MAY certainly apply just with Step 1 months from graduation like AMGs and see what happens. Most likely, they are being told, it will reflect on the number of interviews offered. FMGs are a lesser known quantity and they are repeatedly advised by the medical board, residency programs and third parties to submit all their documents early in order to maximize their chances.

This is not poor planning on the part of an individual applicant or another, this is an issue of multiple deadlines coordination which in part falls beyond the applicants' control.

As an IMG myself, I am quite aware of the above issues.

However, there is nothing stopping an IMG/FMG from asking for the letter earlier.

A letter writer does not need the cover letter, AAMC ID, etc. to actually sit down and write the letter but rather to submit it. The letter could be written, saved in a file, and then when the above is available, July 1, then added to the file and printed.

Since the OP states that he asked for the letters 2 weeks ago on 7/30/09, it means he waited until 7/15/09 or so to ask for the letter.

The deadlines are not insurmoutable. Even if they were, the point is that, as I and surg (both surgical attendings) have noted, 2 weeks is not enough time to ask a busy attending to write a letter unless you want some form letter where I just slap your name in.

This is not meant to be a blast against the OP ( and I apologize if it came across that way) who is seemingly a fine student and member of SDN. But rather to point out that this is a question asked every year and every year attendings say it takes longer than 2 weeks, so adjust your schedule accordingly, which means ask for the letters ASAP, even before materials are available from ERAS.

 

[geauxg8rs]

you could just ask them if you can write it yourself.

 

[Elfy]

As an IMG myself, I am quite aware of the above issues.

However, there is nothing stopping an IMG/FMG from asking for the letter earlier.

A letter writer does not need the cover letter, AAMC ID, etc. to actually sit down and write the letter but rather to submit it. The letter could be written, saved in a file, and then when the above is available, July 1, then added to the file and printed.

Since the OP states that he asked for the letters 2 weeks ago on 7/30/09, it means he waited until 7/15/09 or so to ask for the letter.

The deadlines are not insurmoutable. Even if they were, the point is that, as I and surg (both surgical attendings) have noted, 2 weeks is not enough time to ask a busy attending to write a letter unless you want some form letter where I just slap your name in.

This is not meant to be a blast against the OP ( and I apologize if it came across that way) who is seemingly a fine student and member of SDN. But rather to point out that this is a question asked every year and every year attendings say it takes longer than 2 weeks, so adjust your schedule accordingly, which means ask for the letters ASAP, even before materials are available from ERAS.

A letter writer does not need the cover letter, AAMC ID, etc. to actually sit down and write the letter but rather to submit it. The letter could be written, saved in a file, and then when the above is available, July 1, then added to the file and printed.

Agree that would be one reasonable way to look at it. Another perfectly reasonable way to look at it is for letter writers to respond busily "sure, I'll write it, contact me again when you have ALL your stuff together."

Maybe you like being given information/bureaucratic instructions piecemeal in exchange for a more generous deadline (and so do I). Others don't, perhaps because stuff submitted piecemeal tends to get separated in a busy office, perhaps because they have other concerns I can't speculate on especially when it comes to FMGs.

Since the OP states that he asked for the letters 2 weeks ago on 7/30/09, it means he waited until 7/15/09 or so to ask for the letter.


The days between 7/1 and 7/15 between the long holiday weekend and everyone trying to access the site and the phones were not pretty. (Once you allot a LOR slot you cannot edit/alter it in any way other than what program you assign it to, so you want to make sure you to talk to at least one live person).

As an IMG myself, I am quite aware of the above issues.

That, sadly, is one of the issues pertaining to IMGs (who can do some of their rotations in the US) vs. FMGs who benefit less often from that opportunity and for the most part do observerships. Many FMGs feel they have a stronger case to ask for a US letter after they have more exam results come in (again, Step 2 CK, Step 2 CS, "extra" stuff that normally AMGs eventually do breeze through but don't have to get themselves into an aggravated time crunch over at this particular time of the year).

You yourself said that LORs from observerships don't carry much weight in your eyes for a lack of objective direct clinical skills to talk about, they are generic letters etc. Even a generic letter is more comfortable mentioning at least something tangible as the fruit of the observership, as opposed to nothing. And Step 2 CS can take up to four months to schedule and takes up to two months for the results to arrive, etc, etc, etc. Hence the time crunches. It's a vicious circle.

 

[oompa loompa]

Because the real target date for LORs per announcements on the ERAS website is 8/1 not 9/1 (see above).

Whoa- why is it so early?? I've been telling my letter writers to get it in by the first week of September!

 

[Winged Scapula]

Whoa- why is it so early?? I've been telling my letter writers to get it in by the first week of September!

For IMGs, ECFMG needs about a month to get it uploaded.

 

[jiy76]

I got a problem. I asked for a LOR from an attending who was around 9 months pregnant. She never sent the letter in and at this point she has surely given birth and is on maternity leave until September. I asked her for the LOR because she knew me well and I had a good experience under her.The problem now is how should i remind her I need the letter. I dont want to be a jerk and email her while shes on maternity leave but she might not be back until the middle of september and by the time she sends it in and it gets processed it might be late in the game. What do you think I should do?

 

[lipomas]

My suggestions:

1) Wait for now.
2) When it gets to be october and still nothing, send them a letter/email/phone call saying that your application is now otherwise completed and submitted, and you wanted to thank them again for agreeing to write a letter on your behalf. Thus is a subtle nudge, but it only works once. You can't use that later on if you use it now.
3) If all else fails, talk to your deans office. They can often put the heat on for you (in a nice way!) without it coming from you.

But yes, it is too early to worry. Letters aren't often in until october or early november even.

 

[Gastrapathy]

I got a problem. I asked for a LOR from an attending who was around 9 months pregnant. She never sent the letter in and at this point she has surely given birth and is on maternity leave until September. I asked her for the LOR because she knew me well and I had a good experience under her.The problem now is how should i remind her I need the letter. I dont want to be a jerk and email her while shes on maternity leave but she might not be back until the middle of september and by the time she sends it in and it gets processed it might be late in the game. What do you think I should do?

This is the perfect time to call a secretary (if she has/shares one). Ask if she is checking her work email, stopping by the office, etc. She has more time now than she will when she gets back from leave. Either ask the secretary to mention that you stopped by to see about the letter or email the attending after that.

 

[jiy76]

She does have a secretary.I still need to go through the attending because odds are she hasn't finished the letter and the secretary has no clue about it.She is on maternity leave I would hate to remind her to write a letter while she is busy breastfeeding her newborn...seems like a bad move.

 

[Gastrapathy]

She does have a secretary.I still need to go through the attending because odds are she hasn't finished the letter and the secretary has no clue about it.She is on maternity leave I would hate to remind her to write a letter while she is busy breastfeeding her newborn...seems like a bad move.

She has more time now than she will when she gets back. Does the secretary have any contact with her? Having the secretary remind her would be your best bet, or just send her an email. If she's monitoring her work account (I bet you she is), she won't mind.