How to Attain Academic-Oriented Predoctoral Internship

[therapist89]

Hi all,

I would please appreciate any advice on this issue. I am currently choosing between a few counseling and clinical psychology programs, and I'd like to know what factors are most important to secure a predoctoral internship at sites that have a reputation for sending their students into academic careers (e.g., Brown, Yale, etc.). I quickly read over this guide, but I was wondering if there are specific things I should do throughout my graduate career to strengthen my apps for these particular sites, such as publishing a lot, getting certain types of clinical experience or clinical experience at certain settings, etc.

Two more specific questions include: 1) if I'm interested in working with a certain type of population or disorder during internship (e.g., substance abuse), I'm assuming I'd have to publish and/or get clinical experience with that type of population or disorder during my graduate training? And 2) I'm almost certain that I'll attend a counseling psych program, even over some of the most competitive clinical psych programs, just because of overall research/values fit. I'm aware that these internship sites might have biases against counseling psych, so what would you recommend I do to hopefully counteract these biases (i.e., what experiences could help me compensate for having a counseling psych degree instead of a clinical psych degree?)

Thank you for your advice in advance!

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[Kadhir]

This question should be focused more on post-doc placement and eventual job prospects. The program and the post-doc will set you up for an academic career, not the internship (in most cases). No matter where you go for internship, the vast majority of your time will be spent in clinical work because, well, that's what it's for.

 

[RejectClinical]

Where you do internship won't matter (and if it does, it won't matter much). I'd say that if you want an academic job, find an internship that values research. There are some sites that will give you a full day of research, which will help. If you really want to go into academia, my advice is to find a good internship that sticks to a 40 hour work week so you can get pubs out during your internship year.

 

[Ollie123]

The reason to go to academic-oriented internships isn't because it will help you get a faculty job, its about: 1) Quality of life during internship if you strongly prefer an academic environment and training of that type; 2) To have appropriate in-house post-doc opportunities so you can hopefully avoid moving. Otherwise, internship is basically a checkbox.

That said:
- Yes, obviously it helps to have experience in your population of interest. You want to be able to tell a story in your application. Having some way to integrate your research and clinical experiences helps with that.
- There is perhaps "some" bias against counseling psychology, but I think its overall a very small effect relative to the prototypical training/path that counseling students tend to take. Overall, they tend to publish a bit less (relative to the research-heavy clinical programs anyways), do research on issues less likely to garner substantial extramural funding and do clinical work in settings of lower severity. That is a gross generalization that was arguably more apt 15 years ago, but on average I think it still holds true. If that doesn't describe you, I wouldn't stress about the degree itself.

Be careful about the internships. Yale (for instance) had a research track several years ago that was the big draw for the research crowd. Now there is only maybe 1 track there I would consider "academic."

 

[EmotRegulation]

I might also add a counterpoint....I went into graduate school with the intention of pursuing an academic career and that is what happened, I'm now up for tenure (!) in a great department. But I also intentionally chose a non-research focused internship (I applied to both research-focused internships and more clinical training-focused internships) and it didn't hurt me at all on the job market. Publish as much and as wisely as you can during graduate school. Internship can be useful for securing a post-doc and/or making connections (again, often toward post-doc) but won't matter one way or the other for jobs. Not to mention it is EXTREMELY difficult to be able to accomplish any kind of research in a one-year internship. You're too busy doing clinical work and applying for jobs/post-docs, and hospital IRBs are notoriously cumbersome.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Like EmotRegulation, I went into my doctoral training with the intention of entering academia. I will start a position at a R1 school this fall after I finish my internship. I interviewed at some of places you mentioned but I also opted for a 'less prestigious' internship and I don't regret it. I find the time in the evening of a 40 hour week has allowed me to do more research than I would have at an 80-hour a week place, even with it emphasizing research.

The things that helped me go from starting my program to a newly hired faculty member had less to do with my internship (job applications start only a very few months into the position) and had more to do with my focus during graduate school on being a productive researcher. For me, here is what I did: I started to read the jobwiki early to understand the process I was throwing myself into, I created/cultivated several relationships to put out projects so that I was constantly part of products being created, I reviewed myself regularly to know where things were getting snagged so that I could manage those better, and I put in the time on evenings and weekends on a regular basis. The push for an academic position begins before internship.

 

[researchgirl]

The reason to go to academic-oriented internships isn't because it will help you get a faculty job, its about: 1) Quality of life during internship if you strongly prefer an academic environment and training of that type; 2) To have appropriate in-house post-doc opportunities so you can hopefully avoid moving. Otherwise, internship is basically a checkbox.

That said:
- Yes, obviously it helps to have experience in your population of interest. You want to be able to tell a story in your application. Having some way to integrate your research and clinical experiences helps with that.
- There is perhaps "some" bias against counseling psychology, but I think its overall a very small effect relative to the prototypical training/path that counseling students tend to take. Overall, they tend to publish a bit less (relative to the research-heavy clinical programs anyways), do research on issues less likely to garner substantial extramural funding and do clinical work in settings of lower severity. That is a gross generalization that was arguably more apt 15 years ago, but on average I think it still holds true. If that doesn't describe you, I wouldn't stress about the degree itself.

Be careful about the internships. Yale (for instance) had a research track several years ago that was the big draw for the research crowd. Now there is only maybe 1 track there I would consider "academic."

Mostly agree w/ Ollie, but will add that going to an academic-oriented internship can also help you build a reputation that makes you more competitive for the post doc or faculty job you want. I found it very valuable to go to an academically-oriented internship despite the fact that I did not consider staying there for post doc at all.

As for how to get one of those internships, agree w/ Ollie and add that broad clinical experience in different types of settings (e.g., not just a campus counseling center), experience with evidenced-based interventions, and a strong publication record will be most helpful.

 

[MCParent]

Job postings for academic jobs that you would take after your internship will start being posted before you even begin your internship. Interviews will happen as early as oct/nov of your internship year. Many people have the job finalized by dec/jan. There's not much time for internship to make a very big difference.

My suggestion is to defend your diss before you leave, go on internship with some more data (or learn how to do secondary data analysis), have an internship that does not have 18 hour days, and submit/prep a few papers during internship. Having your diss totally defended before you leave means that you don't have to be ABD when you apply to those early jobs, and that makes you a better bet.