How to Capitalize on Doctor's Social Status

[ruralsurg4now]

So why do we think that a 28 year old with a sedentary lifestyle and the personality of boiled cabbage is all of a sudden going to become Don Juan?

I don't know about you guys, but my medical school class had a lot of people in it, both men and women, who were decent looking. A lot of it was, sure, graded on a curve - as they say, take the hottest woman you'll find in medical school and there will be fifty women hotter in any random club, but that applies to almost every profession in the world, other than "Victoria's Secret model." Most of our class worked out. They weren't ripped or like the hot women you see on infomercials with flat abs, but they weren't fat slobs either. We did have our share of below-average looking people and a couple of overweight/frankly obese people, but it wasn't disproportionate to the general public.

It's sort of like how women used to be sedentary and now every woman is furiously working out, going to spin classes, doing pilates, and running. Now, a lot of them do that and somehow still manage to be not in shape (this, by the way, is literally incredible to me, since I cannot tell you how many women tell me all the stuff they do to work out and I'm like "uh ...you work out??"), but a lot of people are more active than in years past.

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[SouthernSurgeon]

I don't know about you guys, but my medical school class had a lot of people in it, both men and women, who were decent looking. A lot of it was, sure, graded on a curve - as they say, take the hottest woman you'll find in medical school and there will be fifty women hotter in any random club, but that applies to almost every profession in the world, other than "Victoria's Secret model." Most of our class worked out. They weren't ripped or like the hot women you see on infomercials with flat abs, but they weren't fat slobs either. We did have our share of below-average looking people and a couple of overweight/frankly obese people, but it wasn't disproportionate to the general public.

It's sort of like how women used to be sedentary and now every woman is furiously working out, going to spin classes, doing pilates, and running. Now, a lot of them do that and somehow still manage to be not in shape (this, by the way, is literally incredible to me, since I cannot tell you how many women tell me all the stuff they do to work out and I'm like "uh ...you work out??"), but a lot of people are more active than in years past.

We definitely had some social misfits, but I would agree with you that the fitness/attractiveness of my med school class outstripped that of the general public.

 

[michaelrack]

Before you go any further, I can assure you that it's not the case because otherwise 11-year-olds would be the most promiscuous people in society, far more so than 20-year-olds with more myelin sheaths.

very funny. I will resist the urge to bore everyone with a long post about the complexities of child/adolescent/young adult development (probably an area that only psychiatrists and family docs care about).

 

[ruralsurg4now]

very funny. I will resist the urge to bore everyone with a long post about the complexities of child/adolescent/young adult development (probably an area that only psychiatrists and family docs care about).

...and instead just use a generic Internet gif file in order to imply victory? OK.

 

[michaelrack]

...and instead just use a generic Internet gif file in order to imply victory? OK.

Oh, I thought you were joking when you mentioned the 11 year old. I don't see what the relevance is of talking about 11 year olds. That's like saying the fact that 6 year old's aren't sexually promiscuous proves your point.

 

[michaelrack]

EDIT: If that wasn't clear enough, maybe an example would help. Like, I've seen news stories where women who posed for "Girls Gone Wild" are now upset about it since they're older and are now "respectable" women who are in "mature" careers. As if they didn't know that taking off their shirts was a problem when they were "only" nineteen but they figured it out at some point now that they're 27. That's hilarious.

The articles I have previously cited argue that prefrontal brain development is not complete until approximately age 25 in males (perhaps a few years younger in females). The prefrontal circuits are involved in executive functioning- Improved executive functioning would make a 27 year old girl less likely to take off her shirt than a 19 year old girl.

 

[michaelrack]

...and instead just use a generic Internet gif file in order to imply victory? OK.

I am now declaring victory, not implying it.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

That's like saying the fact that 6 year old's aren't sexually promiscuous proves your point.

Why not? They have even fewer myelin sheaths, right?

 

[michaelrack]

Why not? They have even fewer myelin sheaths, right?

Because seeking sex is not a characteristic feature of childhood.

I don't disagree that social/cultural factors play a role, but the biology is also very important.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

I don't disagree that social/cultural factors play a role, but the biology is also very important.

I'd say that it's essentially exclusively social and cultural factors. Your myelin sheath statement may be true, but doesn't in any way demonstrate correlation. It's like saying responsible behavior is linked to height, since people continue to grow through adolescence. See how inane that would be? I'm sure you do.

 

[michaelrack]

I'd say that it's essentially exclusively social and cultural factors. Your myelin sheath statement may be true, but doesn't in any way demonstrate correlation. It's like saying responsible behavior is linked to height, since people continue to grow through adolescence. See how inane that would be? I'm sure you do.

I have linked to several articles supporting my point, but lack the familiarity with the relevant literature on adolecscent development to conclusively prove my point ( I am not sure if studies have been done that conclusively demonstrate that physical brain changes are responsible for improved executive functioning- although case reports looking at disinhibition associated with prefrontal brain injury would support my argument). I think that most psychologists, general psychiatrists, and child/adolescent psychiatrists would agree with me, but that doesn't prove anything.

I think our friendly argument is near an end, unless someone with a good knowledge of neuropsychology can come in and settle it. The articles I have linked demonstrate correlation. I can't conclusively prove causation.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

although case reports looking at disinhibition associated with prefrontal brain injury would support my argument

Not really, as that's not due to global demyelination but rather a reflection of the function of that cortical region of the brain.

 

[michaelrack]

Not really, as that's not due to global demyelination but rather a reflection of the function of that cortical region of the brain.

Depending on the type of brain injury, more than the prefrontal cortex could be affected- some blast injuries can also affect the the underlying white matter (myelin) tracts that along with deep gray matter structures and the prefrontal cortex form the prefrontal circuit. However, you are right that the classical case reports (Phineas Gage) look mainly at cortical injuries.

 

[MerickManual]

A heated debate about myelin?

 

[LesBois88]

The potpourri of personality disorders that is an average medical school class is not an inspirational speech away from being witty and charming.

Pardon me while I wipe the beer from my computer monitor.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Now, a lot of them do that and somehow still manage to be not in shape (this, by the way, is literally incredible to me, since I cannot tell you how many women tell me all the stuff they do to work out and I'm like "uh ...you work out??"), but a lot of people are more active than in years past.

Women lie about how much they work out more than gunners lie about how much they study...

 

[ruralsurg4now]

Women lie about how much they work out more than gunners lie about how much they study...

Yeah, I know. Based on what they say, you'd imagine most women were Olympic athletes, and yet a lot of these people are still overweight.

 

[Arcan57]

Yeah, I know. Based on what they say, you'd imagine most women were Olympic athletes, and yet a lot of these people are still overweight.

I think it's more an area of diet then exercise. The calories from your frou-frou Starbucks drink easily outweighs the burn from moderate cardio for a half hour to an hour. Also, most women don't have a huge amount of muscle to keep their basal metabolic rate high. Given everyone's batsh*t crazy ideas about portion size combined with an already lower caloric ceiling to maintain weight, it's not surprising that exercise doesn't make (most) women thin. Also, a special mention to the absolutely stupid ideas about nutrition (which our profession hasn't exactly been blameless about) which leads to things like eating a leafy green vegetable salad (no meat, no croutons, etc) for lunch but topping it with 3 packets of salad dressing.

 

[thefritz]

Also, a special mention to the absolutely stupid ideas about nutrition (which our profession hasn't exactly been blameless about) which leads to things like eating a leafy green vegetable salad (no meat, no croutons, etc) for lunch but topping it with 3 packets of salad dressing.

This is actually not that bad. Greens plus salad dressing has very few carbs, and if it's part of a low carb diet, it's a great way to stay lean. Unfortunately it's rarely part of a low carb diet. However, it is amusing how physicians are so conscious of what they are seen eating in the cafeteria. You would think drinking a regular coke is the same as chain smoking these days. Can't remember the last time I saw a doctor eat a slice of pizza and a coke. Doctor food = salad bar or sushi + zero calorie vitamin water. In terms of stupid ideas about nutrition, it still doesn't compare to the bullsh|t food allergy fad diets going around now. Oh, you're 'allergic' to gluten (you know, the stuff that sustained humans as we evolved over the millenia)? Oh, to dairy also? Oh, to eggs also? Oh, animal fats and grease give you hives? Why, what a convenient way to make you anoxeria socially acceptable. Genius! You are conveniently allergic to all the foods that make you fat. Funny how nobody is allergic to health and low-calorie foods. It's everywhere these days. An epidemic. So many female residents with BMIs of 16 these days... Something's up.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

Obviously where you are in life and what you're looking for will inform your decision. But it really makes very little sense to me. You spent a minimum of 8 years in school, put in hours that most people wouldn't be capable of, have demonstrated substantially above average intelligence, and I think all of that is worthy of some social status.

Physically, I'm not exactly top-notch. Maybe 5/10 is my realistic score. If I say I'm a janitor, people will subtract 2 and I'll be stuck dating/hooking up with 2-4/10. If that was all I could muster, I'd have to write myself an rx for slidenafil to accomplish anything in the bedroom. But I can easily date 8-9/10 *if they know I'm a doctor*. No viagra necessary there!

As far as concern that they are gold diggers....ummm.....well, I end up paying for dinners and trips anyway. Letting them know that I can actually afford it isn't such a bad thing. If they're going to try and get me to marry them and earn some alimony payment, GOOD LUCK haha, I'm not that kind of guy (at least for another 10-15 years). If someone sees me as a gold mine, the reality is that we're probably both going to get what we want, and its going to be over well before marriage is on the table. It is a win-win and I don't need viagra or a paper bag over their head.

Sounds like you need to meet better women. Just so you know, scheming to announce your occupation won't get you classier women. It'll just attract more of the type you're already dating.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

Neither do I, which is why I wrote what I did. But my point is the only difference between a 21-year-old and a 35-year-old is societal acceptance of hookup behavior. People seem to have this weird notion that people magically "get less horny" as time goes on, which, if it were true, would mean that nobody would be getting into affairs. Or they say "well, a thirty-year-old should know better." What? You mean 21 years passed and the 21-year-old's head is like a cheese grater full of holes? The only difference between the two is that the older person is told by society that "they should know better" is my point. So when people say "I could see you pulling this if you were 21, but you're 33!" it just makes me crack up. That's arbitrary thinking.

When you're 18, 19, or 20, you ARE a different person than the person you become with actual life experience a decade later. By your logic, 10 year olds should be allowed to vote since they're the same people they are at 18, eight year olds should be allowed to be drive since they're the same people they are at 16. People grow, they mature, they change, they decide they want different things out of life. At 18, most aren't thinking of marriage or where to settle down. They want to go to college, hang out with friends, and be free. By 30, many are considering long-term relationships and marriage, they're thinking about future goals, career goals, where they want to settle down, buying homes, etc. Their priorities change because what they want out of life changes.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

This is actually not that bad. Greens plus salad dressing has very few carbs, and if it's part of a low carb diet, it's a great way to stay lean. Unfortunately it's rarely part of a low carb diet. However, it is amusing how physicians are so conscious of what they are seen eating in the cafeteria. You would think drinking a regular coke is the same as chain smoking these days. Can't remember the last time I saw a doctor eat a slice of pizza and a coke. Doctor food = salad bar or sushi + zero calorie vitamin water. In terms of stupid ideas about nutrition, it still doesn't compare to the bullsh|t food allergy fad diets going around now. Oh, you're 'allergic' to gluten (you know, the stuff that sustained humans as we evolved over the millenia)? Oh, to dairy also? Oh, to eggs also? Oh, animal fats and grease give you hives? Why, what a convenient way to make you anoxeria socially acceptable. Genius! You are conveniently allergic to all the foods that make you fat. Funny how nobody is allergic to health and low-calorie foods. It's everywhere these days. An epidemic. So many female residents with BMIs of 16 these days... Something's up.

I eat pizza and drink regular soda. Also, I haven't seen a whole lot of stick-thin female residents. Usually, at best it's like the Dove commercials, where they're "healthy" (meaning, they're slightly overweight, but not disgustingly so).

 

[ruralsurg4now]

When you're 18, 19, or 20, you ARE a different person than the person you become with actual life experience a decade later. By your logic, 10 year olds should be allowed to vote since they're the same people they are at 18, eight year olds should be allowed to be drive since they're the same people they are at 16. People grow, they mature, they change, they decide they want different things out of life. At 18, most aren't thinking of marriage or where to settle down. They want to go to college, hang out with friends, and be free. By 30, many are considering long-term relationships and marriage, they're thinking about future goals, career goals, where they want to settle down, buying homes, etc. Their priorities change because what they want out of life changes.

A lot of what you're writing is actually exactly what I'm talking about. You're basically involved in a self-fulfilling belief. That is, you define 18-year-olds as immature, therefore, you accept immature behavior from them, therefore, they act immature because you accept it. Similarly, you define 30-year-olds as mature, therefore, you do not accept immature behavior from them. Before you say "of course," step back for just a second and consider that.

Let's say you want to be "non-judgmental" and say that random hookups and one-nights stands are no big deal or nothing bad for 18-year-olds. Then why is that a problem for an older person, such as the OP, to engage in simply because he's older (I don't know his age, but let's say he is)? It's funny because everyone is suddenly angered by his openness about just wanting to bang chicks and leave them or his interest in pornstars. So tell me, why is that "wrong" all of a sudden after a certain age, but "completely fine" before it? The answer is simply that you arbitrarily said "I personally accept that 18-year-olds engage in one-night stands or semi-promiscuous behavior, most likely because I did when I was that age." Now that you're older, the only thing that changed was that you are looking for a stable relationship, so you expect that men your age will behave similarly or else they're "immature" and "bad" people (i.e., they're just "losers" now who like to hang out at strip clubs or who have sex with you and then never call you again). In other words, you defined society based on your personal level of maturity -- when YOU were immature, it was fine for everyone else to be immature; when YOU are mature, then everyone else has to be mature.

The reality is that most everyone can be mature, even at a young age. Most people in medical school that I knew were more mature than the average person. They partied less, they weren't sexually promiscuous, many of them were even stably married by medical school. Why is that? Because they were superhumanly special, defying the laws of nature? No, they were just raised to be mature and had expectations and a desire to be that way. In other words, MOST person could be equally mature as them, but most people just hear the message "oh, it's OK to experiment with drugs" or "most people are sexually promiscuous" and accept it. Get my point?

 

[dorian baltar]

I am sorry to OP.
Apparently no one read his or her posts.
OP never used masculine pronouns to refer to him or herself. I guess that someone who wants to use his or her wealth to effect in social situations is masculine to everyone else here, but plenty of women can act like this as well. I admit, having a wing man makes me think OP is male, but girls have guy friends too.
Also, OP explicitly stated that he or she does not like women. Nice reading comprehension for everyone who continued to rail against OP's mistreatment (I assume that's the consensus) of people he or she doesn't even pursue.

The thread started with a legitimate question but the strong focus OP put on relationships and picking up people quickly derailed the thread.
Can't everyone forget the part about picking up people and answer the question? I'd like to know about this.
It won't change my mind about pursuing medical school, but it certainly could make life a little easier once I'm finished. Also, I'm pretty sure no doctor thinks they are as well compensated as they should be. Prestige is part of the "compensation package" of being a doctor. Why not find out how to more effectively use it to get out of some bank fees or something else?

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I am sorry to OP.
Apparently no one read his or her posts.
OP never used masculine pronouns to refer to him or herself. I guess that someone who wants to use his or her wealth to effect in social situations is masculine to everyone else here, but plenty of women can act like this as well. I admit, having a wing man makes me think OP is male, but girls have guy friends too.
Also, OP explicitly stated that he or she does not like women. Nice reading comprehension for everyone who continued to rail against OP's mistreatment (I assume that's the consensus) of people he or she doesn't even pursue.

Half right. OP definitely uses masculine pronouns to describe himself (Refer to the post about an incident with a bank teller calling him "Mr." instead of "Dr.") and discusses taking viagra for arousal.

However you are correct that he makes a post saying:

I didn't mention anything about women. I can assure you that your daughter, as well as everyone else's daughter, is safe from me. I most assuredly do not view women as sexual objects!

So using the old reading comprehension would lead one to believe he is a homosexual male. Which I think a lot of the posters concluded long ago. But it doesn't really change the advice or the character of the responses.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

So using the old reading comprehension would lead one to believe he is a homosexual male. Which I think a lot of the posters concluded long ago. But it doesn't really change the advice or the character of the responses.

I missed that part, lol. So he was banging gay pornstars? This is getting to be epic.

 

[michaelrack]

...and instead just use a generic Internet gif file....

I found another generic Internt gif file appropriate to this thread (I missed that the OP was after men also)

 

[ruralsurg4now]

I found another generic Internt gif file appropriate to this thread (I missed that the OP was after men also)

Man, it's impressive how specific these Internet gifs are. It's like they have one for every occassion!!

 

[dorian baltar]

Half right. OP definitely uses masculine pronouns to describe himself (Refer to the post about an incident with a bank teller calling him "Mr." instead of "Dr.") and discusses taking viagra for arousal.

Too right. I didn't reread that post. Thanks for pointing it out.
However, women take Viagra too. Jussayin'

 

[rkaz]

I am also guilty of contributing to this thread going off topic. Sorry OP.

As to your question, I do have many docs in the family. So growing up, I have seen them use their physician status when it helps (like in the bank situation, as you mentioned) and hide it when it can be a liability (such as buying a car and not wanting the dealer to know they are physicians, to avoid being overcharged). I was admittedly always a bit uncomfortable when my family members used their physician status to gain some kind of advantage, as I didn't think that was right.

One oddball experience was actually last year, when I was doing my OB/Gyn rotation. I had told one of my relatives (who is a retired physician) that I was having some difficulty doing the Pap exam as I didn't know how to click open/close the speculum without hurting the woman. I wanted to practice, but there wasn't much of an opportunity as I rarely got to do Paps, and when I did get the chance, it's not like the woman would have been thrilled with me clicking the speculum around to practice. Well, a few days later my relative presents me with a plastic disposable speculum for me to practice opening and closing. I asked "Where did you get this?" and my relative told me that they had gone to a local hospital (where my relative does not have privileges) and said "Hi, I'm Dr. [x] and need a disposable speculum." It was a little weird that being a doc could get you a free plastic speculum at a hospital you didn't work at.

 

[shopsteward]

Yup, got the OP's gender right but orientation wrong. Guess I was put off construing correctly by the quote about women with paper bags over their heads. Sorry OP. My earlier view still stands, subject to the gender correction.

 

[notinkansas]

For women, being a doctor is most often a detriment on the dating scene. I cannot tell you how many times me (and my fellow female physicians) have had experiences where a guy's interest rapidly and obviously vanishes when he finds out she is a doctor. Or, maybe you do have a date- then he keeps saying "I feel stupid with you because you're a doctor" or "I feel like I'm taking up your time because you're a doctor" It's easier to get past the initial resistance by simply saying you work at the hospital. Then, naturally, 99% of men will assume a female + hospital job = nurse.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

For women, being a doctor is most often a detriment on the dating scene. I cannot tell you how many times me (and my fellow female physicians) have had experiences where a guy's interest rapidly and obviously vanishes when he finds out she is a doctor. Or, maybe you do have a date- then he keeps saying "I feel stupid with you because you're a doctor" or "I feel like I'm taking up your time because you're a doctor" It's easier to get past the initial resistance by simply saying you work at the hospital. Then, naturally, 99% of men will assume a female + hospital job = nurse.

When female physicians say that, I want to ask who they're dating. Like, seriously, are you guys dating plumbers or something?

 

[SeekerOfTheTree]

Dating female physician = become stay at home dad for me.

 

[shan564]

I think one of the problems is the societal construct that the man generally should be at least as successful as the woman, so a lot of female physicians are pressured to date/marry another doctor. Men, on the other hand, often tend to avoid dating/marrying other people in the same profession... not because of success (I'd be totally happy with a more successful woman in another field), but just because we usually don't like to talk about work too much at home.

 

[TeddyBoomBoom]

Half right. OP definitely uses masculine pronouns to describe himself (Refer to the post about an incident with a bank teller calling him "Mr." instead of "Dr.") and discusses taking viagra for arousal.

However you are correct that he makes a post saying:



So using the old reading comprehension would lead one to believe he is a homosexual male. Which I think a lot of the posters concluded long ago. But it doesn't really change the advice or the character of the responses.

Hahahaha awesome

 

[JGimpel]

I like the "tipping the scales" paradigm presented above:

You "tipped the scales" in your favor somehow to get into medical school and again to get into your residency program; why not use any sort of advantage, including your medical career, to get the best possible match for yourself?

When you show up anywhere, you are evaluated by people very soon thereafter. If you can put them at ease about not being a criminal, having intelligence and cater to any degree of wanting to live comfortably in the future, why not do this when you interact with them? Being a doctor means that you've gone through a very rigorous selection process for the above. If someone already found you interesting enough to begin a conversation with, what you do after that to maintain that interest shouldn't receive so much judgement.

To quote a comedian I once heard, women lie about their age, weight, dating history, personality disorders, credit record, spending habits, appearance (makeup does do magic much of the time), etc., why should men have to withhold the truth about such an outstanding accomplishment in their careers? If you're tired of seeing absolute trolls dating people out of their league, man up and approach more women and put yourself in the best possible light when you do so.

 

[Mornhavon]

.

 

[shopsteward]

The way society works, the high achieving women end up barren and alone surrounded by cats, the men with some saggy used goods who decided to slum it with them at 35 before her ovaries clocked out for good.

This mainly applies to the people who treat adult life as an extension of high school.

Sadly, that applies to a significant proportion of the population.

 

[JGimpel]

Look at the misfits who:
1. buy the cheapest luxury car the day they sign their first medical contract, some as soon as they start residency (wtf!) so they can show "they've arrived,"
2. a new and expensive wardrobe that they won't be wearing much of the time considering most roads will eventually lead to scrubs and your schedule won't allow you to socialize in your casual clothes much (not all, but you get the point)
3. get the latest trifecta of iDevices even though they rarely use many of the functionalities after the first month or two
4. work the doctor angle in every situation possible, becoming quickly known as "that doctor"

You know what? All that crap does work, for some more than others, and this is the reality that that many won't grasp. I've had attendings tell me that they agree with my points, but "looking the part" is often what gets more of the attention of potential recruiters from private firms or office partnerships that need a good doctor out of the sea of doctors seen as a commodity. They've also let my in on how this stuff affected their social lives and, you guessed it, it works wonders there too.

I wouldn't care about all this stuff in my potential mate, but it does serve to shut down many that think they're better than you because they think they're out of most people's leagues for some reason or another.