Any suggestions on what I can possibly do to make this experience a little less painful? How can I show initiative and not appear 'lazy'?
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How to deal with a resident that just seems to have it out for you?
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I had this experience on a rotation with a resident (as did every other med student who worked with her). I would say just to work hard and don't give the resident any excuses to write you a bad eval. What I did was to try to really go out of my way to impress other residents/attendings so as to mitigate what that one resident might write about me.
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Since it sounds like you still want to get the most out of the rotation, you need to keep on top of your game, ask to help out/be proactive whenever possible...and, most importantly, keep your cool and stay professional.
Also, consider that the resident may NOT have it out for you...maybe you're misreading the situation...or maybe there's something bad going on in his/her life that has nothing to do with you...
Without more information it's tough offer any other advice, good luck.
Also, consider that the resident may NOT have it out for you...maybe you're misreading the situation...or maybe there's something bad going on in his/her life that has nothing to do with you...
Without more information it's tough offer any other advice, good luck.
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never do this. nothing good can ever come out of it. if you want to complain to someone then complain to the course director so when he/she gets a bad eval that contradicts all the good evals you've already covered urself by reporting a personality conflict
...and what about rotation sites where the attending is basically not there and the R2s and R3s supervising the show with students following the R1s? For my current location, I can probably count on one hand the number of times in the past 4 weeks where I've seen the attending outside of morning report/rounds and journal club. In that situation, there's a chain of command that has to be followed, and the next stop isn't the attending or course director. As a side note, personality conflicts and favorites is why the interns no longer grade the med students here.
Also, there's a difference between approaching a senior resident with "Dr. Intern is being an a-hole" and, "I'm having [insert problem. don't mention a name], any tips on how to prevent the situation from developing in the future?"
Of course any advice is going to be based on how the OP reads his/her program and how that program is set up.
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PS those shoes you said you were wearing aren't clinic appropriate per my google image search.
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the course director (the person assigning you a grade) should be the first stop once a conflict arises. the interns and residents may be a tight knit group and may be friends and are likely to figure out who it is you are complaining about in your seemingly anonymous complaint. you're just some dude who's passing by while that intern is someone they have to work with for hundreds if not thousands of hours over the next 3-5 years. it's unlikely that they're going to side with you. on the other hand the course director should be looking out for your best interest.
i will agree with you that programs vary. If you are at a med school that ships you out to random clinical sites then you're basically screwed but if you are rotating at your med school's hospital and the course director is a clinical professor at your school then the above advice holds.
I removed most of my original post because I just don't want most of it to be linked to me in case for some strange reason it gets back to her.
Here's one example of me being yelled at for no good reason:
She tells me to round with them at 7:30am, so I show up at 7:15am and wait for her by the patients room. I text her "I'm here and waiting for you in front of the patient's room." Her response, "we already rounded on her." WTF!!! Seriously???!?! Why do you tell me to show up at 7:30am then??? So again I get chewed out...
Statement of today that destroyed me the most:
She also goes on to tell me that I'm going to make her look bad to the attending because of the missed rounds and inability to use the EMR. She also goes on to say that she doesn't really care if I keep missing these things or not knowing what to do because it's my education, she's getting paid either way and she's writing an evaluation. <--Are you serious!!????!?!?
Dr Bowtie,
I'm not wearing the ones you probably saw. Mine are completely black and don't have the crazy platform because they are the 'mass' production version not the runway version.
Here's one example of me being yelled at for no good reason:
She tells me to round with them at 7:30am, so I show up at 7:15am and wait for her by the patients room. I text her "I'm here and waiting for you in front of the patient's room." Her response, "we already rounded on her." WTF!!! Seriously???!?! Why do you tell me to show up at 7:30am then??? So again I get chewed out...
Statement of today that destroyed me the most:
She also goes on to tell me that I'm going to make her look bad to the attending because of the missed rounds and inability to use the EMR. She also goes on to say that she doesn't really care if I keep missing these things or not knowing what to do because it's my education, she's getting paid either way and she's writing an evaluation. <--Are you serious!!????!?!?
Dr Bowtie,
I'm not wearing the ones you probably saw. Mine are completely black and don't have the crazy platform because they are the 'mass' production version not the runway version.
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I think you need to judge who the course director is. Some fields (ie OB) are fiercely protective of their brethren. If you think the course director seems reasonable, then possibly proactively discussing the issue could be an option. If not, it might be best to bite your lip, put up with the BS (as much as you want to curse the resident out and leave) and move on. If you only get one lukewarm eval (even if it does lower your grade), you will be golden. Evaluations are an imperfect science and (most) residency program directors understand it.
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Do you have her phone number or email address?
Do you know how to use craigslist?
Can you be patient for a month or two?
Do you know how to use craigslist?
Can you be patient for a month or two?
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"PS those shoes you said you were wearing aren't clinic appropriate per my google image search."
haha really? ok footlocker terminator
haha really? ok footlocker terminator
Go to the course director prophylactically before you get a bad evaluation. Also you need to gauge if the clerkship director is the type of guy who looks out for med students. If not then you need to just take it up the ass because you will never get clinical honors from that resident. In fact he may even fail you.
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Without the context of the edited out story from the OP, I realize my comment looks out of place. But s/he was chastised by an attending for the footwear.
So, I don't think I'm going to go to the course directors. One may be sympathetic, but I'm sure the other one will not be and this could turn into a huge mess for the rest of my rotation. I talked to some students who have this resident as part of their 'regular' team (I have her for a sub-specialty) and they think she's really nice. So I guess she just really doesn't like me...
On a positive note, yesterday was the last day I had to work with that resident. For the next 4 weeks, I'm with a different team of residents and they will be submitting evals too, so hopefully things will go much better with them and at least my overall grade in the rotation will just come out being passable.
It sucks because this is a specialty I was considering (sub-specialty too), but so far this experience has put a bad taste in my mouth and I'm not sure if I can view this specialty in the same light again.
I know people say that you have to have a thick skin when doing rotations because there will be people like this, but never did I expect people to attack my character...especially when I had only been on rotations for less than 1 week. Yesterday I swear I almost burst out in tears when I got yelled at in front of about 5 other residents and their students. Some of my classmates came up to me a little later and asked me if I was ok because apparently I looked so pale and distraught. Hmmm...yeah...I don't really like getting humiliated in front of other people.....
Anyway, if anyone wants to know specifics feel free to PM me, but I won't be posting the rotation I'm on or the sub-specialty. I also have plenty of other examples, but again I'm trying to keep some anonymity.
On a positive note, yesterday was the last day I had to work with that resident. For the next 4 weeks, I'm with a different team of residents and they will be submitting evals too, so hopefully things will go much better with them and at least my overall grade in the rotation will just come out being passable.
It sucks because this is a specialty I was considering (sub-specialty too), but so far this experience has put a bad taste in my mouth and I'm not sure if I can view this specialty in the same light again.
I know people say that you have to have a thick skin when doing rotations because there will be people like this, but never did I expect people to attack my character...especially when I had only been on rotations for less than 1 week. Yesterday I swear I almost burst out in tears when I got yelled at in front of about 5 other residents and their students. Some of my classmates came up to me a little later and asked me if I was ok because apparently I looked so pale and distraught. Hmmm...yeah...I don't really like getting humiliated in front of other people.....
Anyway, if anyone wants to know specifics feel free to PM me, but I won't be posting the rotation I'm on or the sub-specialty. I also have plenty of other examples, but again I'm trying to keep some anonymity.
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It's very strange that a resident as hostile as you describe is perceived by other med students as being nice. That's a big red flag to either reassess your own behavior or reinterpret the resident's behavior. Is it possible she just has a very dry sense of humor that you're not picking up on? Are you inadvertently getting on her nerves somehow (e.g., when I read the text you sent her before rounds, it sounded a tad impatient/pushy to me - "I'm here and waiting for you" instead of "I'm here").
Obviously I'm only getting fragments of one side of the situation, so I have no idea either way.
Obviously I'm only getting fragments of one side of the situation, so I have no idea either way.
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We need more context. Was she on call overnight and had a really busy night and had to start rounding early in order to get everything done? In that case, getting your text, which sounds like a gum-smacking teenager going "I'm HEEEERE, where ARE you?" is going to seem really obnoxious.
Well, yeah. I don't care what you do. It's not about you helping me. I can't remember the last time I had an M3 that decreased my work in the slightest. It's always additional work for me, which I don't mind when I have the time, because I like teaching, but this is your opportunity to learn, not mine. I am getting paid either way...
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I'd say it's best not to let it get to you. Just getting yelled at the first week of rotations doesn't mean you're going to get an awful eval. And even if you do get an awful eval, well, it's one awful eval. Chances are it won't even show up in your Dean's letter.
This was the second time that she told me to show up at one time and when I got there, they had already rounded. So that is why in the above example I decided to text her to actually inform her that I was there instead of letting her assume I just skipped for some reason. I did later find out that that morning was resident reviews or something of that nature...
I don't mind being corrected or chastised for doing something wrong, but how is it fair for me to get yelled at for showing up at the time the resident told me to, but missing rounds because it they decided to go earlier? Am I just expected to show up everyday to the hospital at 5am and sit there and just wait for them?
Well for what it's worth, on the third day, I showed up at 5:15am, pre-rounded on the patient by myself and wrote a note before the resident even got there. Oh and guess what? She tore my note to apart because I didn't know how to insert lab values into the note or have a very good 'plan' written...if I knew how to manage patients on the 3rd day of rotations, I might as well just take step 2 now.
I really think I'm trying to put in a good effort, but to be called 'lazy' and that I don't 'show initiative' drives me insane. Thursday was supposed to be an 'study day' (I have no idea why one was so early in my schedule...) for me, but I still showed up and worked with her the entire day without saying a word about it.
________
And to the above poster, I have tried what you suggested. That's when she told me that I appear 'lazy' and that I don't show initiative or effort. So yeah, it's done and over with. I don't care about trying to please her anymore. I'm moving on and trying to keep a good attitude through the rest of my rotation.
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Welcome to third year. And don't ever volunteer for extra work. She's right about you learning everything yourself though, honestly it's better you look it up yourself instead of getting some half-right explanation from a resident and then told you're dumb. There must be a book out there that explains how to write a good SOAP, if it were me I'd rather learn it from a book then some bitch resident.
I'm telling you, post her picture, e-mail and phone number on the craigslist personal section if it bothers you so much and/or she fails you. Maybe add in where she works for good measure. Ha ha, just kidding. Right.
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And there's also
http://www.vitals.com/
http://www.healthgrades.com/
What's to stop you from creating 20 different accounts and raking her name over the coals? That's right, nothing
http://www.vitals.com/
http://www.healthgrades.com/
What's to stop you from creating 20 different accounts and raking her name over the coals? That's right, nothing
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Unnecessary.
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It depends on the resident. There were some last year who went out of their way to teach me and split the work equally with me. There were those who didn't teach much but were easygoing and let me do my work. Some were lazy and let me do my work and theirs, but were easygoing as a result and taught me what they knew and/or let me do procedures.
Then there were residents who disappeared for days and let me write notes for 20+ patients and then when they showed up would decide to show me my place while they kissed the attendings ass. And/or they would teach me something, but it would only be when there were many other residents or attendings around, and when I ****ed up they'd pound me to the ground. Those are the residents who are in for a surprise. I am going to rip them apart in due time.
Yes, it is.
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What exactly are you going to do? It sucks, and I found this out in 3rd year, but your opinion as a med student is pretty worthless to most everyone above you.
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I like this guy.
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Have you missed all his other posts on this page?
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I doubt it. And if you're still referring to those online review sites, that would be both unprofessional and juvenile. You'd actually be stooping way below their level. If you had it in you, you'd tell them to their faces.
In the mean time, you sound like this guy:
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Then unfortunately, you got stuck with a resident who either is not interested in teaching, or is unaware that this is your first rotation. If it is the latter, have you tried explaining that to her? Residents and attendings are generally more forgiving of students who are beginning their first rotation. But if she is aware, then she is being a bitch. She may trash you on your eval, but since you worked with her for only a week, I don't think she can do too much damage. I think you should just move on, and work hard with your next team, and ace the shelf. If its any consolation, you get to do an eval on your residents at the end of the rotation as well. This is your opportunity to trash her.
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...and not use some evaluation website for patient reviews of physicians.Then unfortunately, you got stuck with a resident who either is not interested in teaching, or is unaware that this is your first rotation. If it is the latter, have you tried explaining that to her? Residents and attendings are generally more forgiving of students who are beginning their first rotation. But if she is aware, then she is being a bitch. She may trash you on your eval, but since you worked with her for only a week, I don't think she can do too much damage. I think you should just move on, and work hard with your next team, and ace the shelf. If its any consolation, you get to do an eval on your residents at the end of the rotation as well. This is your opportunity to trash her.
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No kidding. I can all but guarantee none of them would be doing that to you.
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I did tell them to their faces. Almost failed my last rotation because of it. And I realized that that was pretty dumb of me, to do something that invited repercussions.
I don't care whether it's juvenile or unprofessional or whatever. All I know is that I was 95% less pissed off after I wrote them and can now function in my day to day activities.
I don't care whether it's juvenile or unprofessional or whatever. All I know is that I was 95% less pissed off after I wrote them and can now function in my day to day activities.
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That just shows that the problem was with you and not with them.
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Overall terrible advice. You've got some issues, man. I would recommend working those out while you're still a student, because passive-aggressive interns are the worst.
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Not a good choice. Asking to do stuff allows three things to happen:
1) You learn more, especially if you learn best by doing/seeing stuff
2) You get a tiny scrap of street cred...and when there's a procedure or something cool comes up, you're more likely to be asked to be involved
3) You get to know your attendings, residents and patients more, and thereby better understand if the field you're rotating in may be something you want to do for a career
Obviously you don't want to be a nuisance, but ask to do stuff when it's opportune.
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Right, I should just let residents **** all over me when they want to because they're higher up.
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I guess I should clarify, because I agree with your post.
It depended on the resident with me. I volunteered for extra work when I got along with the resident, which was most of my year, and for the most part they obliged. I did the bare minimum when they were *******s.
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Rotations really do run the gamut from great learning experience to gulag, and I don't think enough people understand that.
It's stressful enough being required to be in the hospital up to 18 hours a day, and when someone is literally going out of their way to ruin your life you can go a little crazy, and that's entirely understandable.
It really isn't always the medical student's fault. Some of these residents really should just not be ever placed in a position of power or authority because they're the same spoiled douches they were in medical school, and the only thing they enjoy more than kissing the asses of their supervisors is crapping all over the medical students.
This seems to be more prevalent in academia, in my experience. For whatever reason, some of the most immature, arrested development kind of personalities I have ever had the unfortunate experience of encountering seem to flock to academic internal medicine.
So if you never had a nightmare rotation, don't assume they don't exist. I had great evals for every part of my third year, commending every aspect of my work ethic and abilities except for one guy who wrote something to the effect that I was going to kill every patient in the hospital....
It's stressful enough being required to be in the hospital up to 18 hours a day, and when someone is literally going out of their way to ruin your life you can go a little crazy, and that's entirely understandable.
It really isn't always the medical student's fault. Some of these residents really should just not be ever placed in a position of power or authority because they're the same spoiled douches they were in medical school, and the only thing they enjoy more than kissing the asses of their supervisors is crapping all over the medical students.
This seems to be more prevalent in academia, in my experience. For whatever reason, some of the most immature, arrested development kind of personalities I have ever had the unfortunate experience of encountering seem to flock to academic internal medicine.
So if you never had a nightmare rotation, don't assume they don't exist. I had great evals for every part of my third year, commending every aspect of my work ethic and abilities except for one guy who wrote something to the effect that I was going to kill every patient in the hospital....
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Deserved or undeserved, poor evaluations suck. But you don't have to take them to heart. It's up to you to decide whether you believe the evals or not, and whether to do something about what residents/ attendings say are your weakness or not.
I still say just don't let it get to you.
I still say just don't let it get to you.
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I'd love to see where I said that.
You implied that you had trouble functioning with your daily activities until you posted some Internet tirade against them. That's not normal.
Here's an update in case anyone is interested:
So, I met with one of my course directors today. The resident had already approached him regarding my situation/interaction. Apparently, she did have some criticism of me, but he told me that she did also say positives as well. Frankly, I'm shocked. After that horrendous week with her, I was expecting to also get lectured during my meeting today. My course director also assured me that if there was any sort of issues in the future, he would be more than willing to help. Furthermore, he mentioned that his dept rarely (ie never) gives anyone a bad eval...it will be written as neutral instead if need be.
Anyway, I'm really glad I had this meeting today. I have a much better attitude about this rotation now and hopefully I can finish up on a strong note!
So, I met with one of my course directors today. The resident had already approached him regarding my situation/interaction. Apparently, she did have some criticism of me, but he told me that she did also say positives as well. Frankly, I'm shocked. After that horrendous week with her, I was expecting to also get lectured during my meeting today. My course director also assured me that if there was any sort of issues in the future, he would be more than willing to help. Furthermore, he mentioned that his dept rarely (ie never) gives anyone a bad eval...it will be written as neutral instead if need be.
Anyway, I'm really glad I had this meeting today. I have a much better attitude about this rotation now and hopefully I can finish up on a strong note!
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Glad things worked out for you. Maybe she was just being tough on you because she felt you had potential.
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And that's why a smear campaign is unnecessary.
I'm disturbed by the lack of maturity and professionalism in your previous posts. Please don't do any of the things you suggested earlier in the thread. The "be nice to me or I'll make your life hell" approach has already been used out by nurses.
The truth is that most functional adults are able to swallow their pride and deal with these situations without stooping super-low and threatening the viability of a young physician's career.
Your suggestions regarding vitals.com and craigslist may have been facetious and I'm over-reading it. If you were serious, though, that's sociopathic behavior.
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It took me awhile to realize this, but as a 3rd year there is basically nothing you can do in this kind of situation. Going to the course director is a good preemptive strike for getting her evaluation removed if it's really different from everyone elses (even then it probably won't work), but mostly you're stuck. In a real job you can generally make your life easier by doing your job well and making their job easier. However as a medical student you have no job to do, so that's out. Sometimes, if you have a cringe inducing lack of self respect, you can adapt to her personality and endear yourself by playing up to her interests ("tell me more about your wedding dress, boyfriend, and cat!") but the majority of residents who behave this way don't have any personality to speak of so that probably won't help. Try your best, stay optimistic, but the real lesson is that you can't internalize anything that happens this year. The reviews are random and the people are rude and you need to accept that that has nothing to do with you. When you start to have some real responsibilities your competence will start to shine th
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If she has a cat she probably isn't engaged 😛
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The way I'm interpreting this, you're probably just being overly sensitive to the comments your resident is making. She's probably not being as mean as you think. I don't think either of the comments in #9 really sound that bad.
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Or she really is being that mean. I think asking someone to show up at 7:30 and then pissing all over them because they actually did that (and rationalizing it by the tone of a text message hardly matters) is pretty awful behavior.
I totally understand how stressed residents can be sometimes, but it's never ever a reason to be a jerk. I had a fellow that I worked with once on a consult service who was stressed to all hell and STILL found time to teach without being a jerk. In any other profession people who treat the med students like that and screw their coworkers over would have been fired, but some fields of medicine attract truly horrid personalities.
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