HouTX

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set your expectations and only if they are dumb enough to not listen do you fail them
 

Ackj

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Cherry picking the easy ones to fill is one thing, but actually throwing them out? I don't have a clue why somebody would do that. What is their response when the patient shows up and the rx is nowhere to be found?
 

awval999

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Have an IPPE student. Caught the student throwing out labels for prescriptions that would take more time to fill. Insta-fail?
Instant dismissal. Do not come back. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

I would prefer they steal the benzos than that honestly. At least you can explain that.
 
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BMBiology

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Have an IPPE student. Caught the student throwing out labels for prescriptions that would take more time to fill. Insta-fail?
I wouldn't fail the student. If he keeps on doing it then yes.

I also don't believe you should throw stones when you live in a glass house. People always try to get back at you so don't let something like this comes back to haunt you one day. Knowing how your pharmacy operates and how you do things, I am sure there will be plenty of opportunities.

You should check the board of pharmacy website. Plenty of pharmacists got into trouble. It is obvious someone ratted them out.
 
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Sparda29

Sparda29

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I wouldn't fail the student. If he keeps on doing it then yes.

I also don't believe you should throw stones when you live in a glass house. People always try to get back at you so don't let something like this comes back to haunt you one day. Knowing how your pharmacy operates and how you do things, I am sure there will be plenty of opportunities.
Nah, I informed the owners about their compounding process. Told them I will only make compounds that they can provide proof have been proven to work. They're cool with it.
 

BMBiology

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Nah, I informed the owners about their compounding process. Told them I will only make compounds that they can provide proof have been proven to work. They're cool with it.
It doesn't matter. What is done is done.
 

wagrxm2000

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Unless this is a joke, why is the student filling?
 

trailerpark

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So if Mrs. Medicaid has an rx for Gabapentin #360, the student throws the label in the garbage instead of filling/counting it out? Why do I always feel like I'm missing something...

 

Dalteparin

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Because it's free help? Why wouldn't they be filling?
Yes, especially since they're an IPPE. They need to understand workflow, and they don't know enough to do very much counseling.

Back on topic, yes, if I caught one of my IPPEs doing something like that, they'd get an F so fast they wouldn't even know what hit them.
 

Corpseman

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Do they know what they are doing is wrong? It seems obvious to those of us who have stepped foot in a pharmacy before or have common sense, but those two things are not the norm for the extremely young students. Just sit them down and talk to them about it, failing them without engaging them would lump you in with the worst of the worst preceptors.
 
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y0ssarian87

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Have an IPPE student. Caught the student throwing out labels for prescriptions that would take more time to fill. Insta-fail?
No. But it did cause several angry patient phone calls later about missing meds.
This sounds like either the student is incredibly stupid or something got lost in translation. Did you actually catch the student in the act of throwing away prescriptions, or did you find many prescriptions unfilled? How did it go down? This is incredibly baffling to me, and I've never worked in a community pharmacy except for my few days in IPPEs.
 
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wagrxm2000

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Because it's free help? Why wouldn't they be filling?
I never have interns fill, its a waste of their time. They should have things they need to do/experience at least that's what the schools do here.

Well unless we are extremely busy.
 
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pillpharmer14

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I never have interns fill, its a waste of their time. They should have things they need to do/experience at least that's what the schools do here.

Well unless we are extremely busy.
You're 100% right on that, but I think for preceptors most of the time the free help is too hard to pass up. I'd like to think I wouldn't do that a student, but in the heat of the moment the whip might come out :D
 
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Sparda29

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I never have interns fill, its a waste of their time. They should have things they need to do/experience at least that's what the schools do here.

Well unless we are extremely busy.
You're 100% right on that, but I think for preceptors most of the time the free help is too hard to pass up. I'd like to think I wouldn't do that a student, but in the heat of the moment the whip might come out :D
It's an IPPE not an APPE. This particular student never worked as a tech before pharmacy school, pretty much went straight from stockboy/cashier to pharmacy school. Might as well let them learn some stuff about what techs do first.
 

TheBlaah

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I agree that filling is something he should be doing for his IPPEs.

I dunno how I feel about sending him home. Basically gave him the day off rather than forcing him to stay and do what he's supposed to. He needs to learn right now that this is unacceptable behavior and if/when he becomes a pharmacist that he can't just pawn off work whenever he feels like it.

I would document it for now, and if he doesn't show any signs of improvement in his overall behavior/attitude, I'd report it.
 
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Sparda29

Sparda29

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I agree that filling is something he should be doing for his IPPEs.

I dunno how I feel about sending him home. Basically gave him the day off rather than forcing him to stay and do what he's supposed to. He needs to learn right now that this is unacceptable behavior and if/when he becomes a pharmacist that he can't just pawn off work whenever he feels like it.

I would document it for now, and if he doesn't show any signs of improvement in his overall behavior/attitude, I'd report it.
That's time he's gotta make up now. I wouldn't have been peeved if he cherry picked which prescriptions to fill and gave the harder ones to the tech or me. It's the fact that he just tossed it away.
 

pillpharmer14

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It's an IPPE not an APPE. This particular student never worked as a tech before pharmacy school, pretty much went straight from stockboy/cashier to pharmacy school. Might as well let them learn some stuff about what techs do first.
Got it. I somehow missed the IPPE part after it was mentioned 3 times above. Was think it was APPE
 

rph3664

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Tell that student that you know what they are doing, and that they cannot do that and if you find out it's happened again, they are gone and you will tell their professor.
 

Digsbe

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And this person want's to be a pharmacist... just wait until they are responsible one day for CII inventory or have inventory days. It's mundane and boring as all get out but you still have to do it, you can't "toss" that away.

If I ever precept students I'd probably talk to them professionally and fail them if it happened again.
 
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wagrxm2000

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And this person want's to be a pharmacist... just wait until they are responsible one day for CII inventory or have inventory days. It's mundane and boring as all get out but you still have to do it, you can't "toss" that away.

If I ever precept students I'd probably talk to them professionally and fail them if it happened again.
I think the hardest thing is failing a student. An IPPE student is just there for experience, it would be very hard for me to screw someone over and fail them. The same goes for APPE, some preceptors fail students if they don't think they have the knowledge. Well they just went through 5 years of school, if they don't have the knowledge that's the schools fault. If they work hard, I pass them and allow the naplex to decide if they have the knowledge to be a pharmacist.
 

Apotheker2015

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Sparda29,

I believe that I would have also sent the student home. Most importantly, I would have contacted the office of experiential education/rotations (etc) and shared the situation in detail with them. I think that what the student did is definitely irresponsible. However, it is pretty clear that the student does not have a clue about how a community pharmacy works. Therefore, this is a great teaching moment for you and the student. I do not think that failing the student is the way to go. I think the student is highly unaware of the repercussions of his/her actions. We all know there are many pharmacy students who have never actually *needed* a job and thus, have never had a real job and this could be the case.

To comment on the fact that you asked your student to fill prescriptions, I would say that is part of the pharmacy world and part of an IPPE experience, especially, if the student is inexperienced and could greatly benefit from it. This seems to be the case in this instance. I can speak for personal experience and can tell you that one of my duties during my first IPPE was to fill prescriptions at a small community pharmacy. It was greatly beneficial to me because I had never actually been behind the counter at a pharmacy until that point. I got into pharmacy school without knowing what Lisinopril and Simvastatin were. I had NO idea about what happens at a pharmacy and getting a chance to experience each station; i.e., drop-off, pick-up, production & consultation was very beneficial to me. Of course, you don't want your student JUST filling. Asking them to fill when it gets crazy busy is part of the experience. If your student ends up going into retail one day, he/she will have to ask the same of students. I would, in fact, expect students to eagerly volunteer to help in any shape or form during busy times.

Best,

Apotheker2015
 
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Sparda29,

I believe that I would have also sent the student home. Most importantly, I would have contacted the office of experiential education/rotations (etc) and shared the situation in detail with them. I think that what the student did is definitely irresponsible. However, it is pretty clear that the student does not have a clue about how a community pharmacy works. Therefore, this is a great teaching moment for you and the student. I do not think that failing the student is the way to go. I think the student is highly unaware of the repercussions of his/her actions. We all know there are many pharmacy students who have never actually *needed* a job and thus, have never had a real job and this could be the case.

To comment on the fact that you asked your student to fill prescriptions, I would say that is part of the pharmacy world and part of an IPPE experience, especially, if the student is inexperienced and could greatly benefit from it. This seems to be the case in this instance. I can speak for personal experience and can tell you that one of my duties during my first IPPE was to fill prescriptions at a small community pharmacy. It was greatly beneficial to me because I had never actually been behind the counter at a pharmacy until that point. I got into pharmacy school without knowing what Lisinopril and Simvastatin were. I had NO idea about what happens at a pharmacy and getting a chance to experience each station; i.e., drop-off, pick-up, production & consultation was very beneficial to me. Of course, you don't want your student JUST filling. Asking them to fill when it gets crazy busy is part of the experience. If your student ends up going into retail one day, he/she will have to ask the same of students. I would, in fact, expect students to eagerly volunteer to help in any shape or form during busy times.

Best,

Apotheker2015
Apotheker2015,

That is wonderful advice.

Best,

RxStudentatUBaltimore
 
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genesis09

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It is fairly common practice in an early community IPPE to have the student do some filling. As a pharmacist, you need to know workflow. Also, most pharmacists will fill when needed. One of the goals of our first community IPPE is to participate in all aspects of filling a rx; from typing it in to seeing it leave.
 

fewaopi

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Jan 9, 2009
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I didn't catch anywhere in the thread about whether Sparda told the student or engaged with the student about throwing away scripts he didn't know how to fill.

Did Sparda notice the behavior, told the student, if there's something you don't know how to count/fill, ask me and I can teach you or I'll do it? (since you're a preceptor after all? or at least can step in as a mentor?)

Regardless, the fact that the student didn't ask for help on how to do something or isn't interested in learning and just throwing things away especially when he/she is new to pharmacy workflow shows a lack of will to take on challenges or ask for help and learn. It would be enough to warrant a low grade if I had already talked about it. But I'm not sure if Sparda has even talked to the student. If they weren't taught, I'd tell them if you're not sure, ask. If they bug and annoy you, that's better than making an error. Can't really hand a verdict because I don't think we're being told the whole story.

I'm kinda curious what school (type of school) student is from. Doesn't seem that bright.
 

pillpharmer14

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Mar 17, 2015
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I still don't really know what to make of this whole situation.

Is it possible due to lack of understanding of workflow that the student didn't realize that by throwing the labels away that they would gone forever? Maybe he thought they would still be qued up in the computer and that was essentially "cherry picking" without completely discarding the RX.