How to determine is residency is good?

[ProEra]

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We can still apply the data, but make sure to add about ~ 5 points to these Step 1 and Step 2 scores to apply them to the current cycle. Seems like the overall step averages climb about 1 point every year. However, anesthesia competitiveness may have decreased slightly within the preceding 5 years.

 

[osumd]

@BLADEMDA give us some top 1/3 programs

 

[anbuitachi]

We can still apply the data, but make sure to add about ~ 5 points to these Step 1 and Step 2 scores to apply them to the current cycle. Seems like the overall step averages climb about 1 point every year. However, anesthesia competitiveness may have decreased slightly within the preceding 5 years.

according to the main match data... step 1 score went up by 2 points from 2009-2011, step 2 went up by 5 points in same two years. if trend continues avg step 1 score this year should be ~230, and step 2 should be around 250

 

[BLADEMDA]

@BLADEMDA give us some top 1/3 programs

Here are Programs which typically require HIGH Step Scores to match:

1. Johns Hopkins
2. Brigham
3. Duke
4. Stanford
5. Mass General
6. UCSF
7. Beth Israel (BID)
8. Mayo (Rochester)
8. Wash U
9. Cornell
11 Columbia
12 Vanderbilt
13 Virginia Mason

Also high up there:

Wake Forest
Univ of Alabama
Rush
Univ of Chicago
UCSD
UCLA
UNC

Another good group:

Mt Sinai (NYC)
Emory
Dartmouth
Yale
NYU
Univ of Michigan
Penn



I apologize if I left off a few programs which I'm certain I did. Back in my day I easily matched into one of those TOP programs (Vandy was a bottom program back then) as it wasn't nearly as difficult.

Today, I bet that my match would find me in the "good group" category which would be more than adequate for training a Med Student into a fine anesthesiologist.

 

[anbuitachi]

Here are Programs which typically require HIGH Step Scores to match:

1. Johns Hopkins
2. Brigham
3. Duke
4. Stanford
5. Mass General
6. UCSF
7. Beth Israel (BID)
8. Mayo (Rochester)
8. Wash U
9. Cornell
11 Columbia
12 Vanderbilt
13 Virginia Mason

Also high up there:

Wake Forest
Univ of Alabama
Rush
Univ of Chicago
UCSD
UCLA
UNC

Another good group:

Mt Sinai (NYC)
Emory
Dartmouth
Yale
NYU
Univ of Michigan
Penn



I apologize if I left off a few programs which I'm certain I did. Back in my day I easily matched into one of those TOP programs (Vandy was a bottom program back then) as it wasn't nearly as difficult.

Today, I bet that my match would find me in the "good group" category which would be more than adequate for training a Med Student into a fine anesthesiologist.

Mt Sinai is that low? I guess it's more of a famous regional program? I think ppl here rank it similar to Columbia and Cornell

 

[BLADEMDA]

I listed many upper 1/3 programs but not all of them.

 

[POW16]

That list also doesn't mean much. Otherwise why would Rush be above Sinai, Penn and even UMich?

 

[possibledoc]

Hey Blade, thanks for your posts they help a lot! Do you have a list of the low tier programs?

I am having a hard trouble deciding taking November or December month off for interviews. Any input from anyone? I have low step 1 if that matters. In which month are there more anes interviews offered?

Thanks for you help guys!

 

[ProEra]

Mt Sinai is that low? I guess it's more of a famous regional program? I think ppl here rank it similar to Columbia and Cornell

From what I've heard nowadays, Sinai has definitely become the most competitive New York program. Outside of MGH, BWH, and UCSF, I would guess Sinai has become one of the most sought after programs from a student's perspective. Every student and resident I've talked to who wanted to stay in the northeast has put the program at the top of their rank list.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Blade what is the source for the Step scores you provided? I think some of the information provided is misleading , if not downright wrong.

 

[Anesthesiaholic]

Blade what is the source for the Step scores you provided? I think some of the information provided is misleading , if not downright wrong.

He is copying the first part of each program's profile from matchapplicants.com

 

[ProEra]

Unfortunately most of the entries from the matchapplicants.com profiles came from 2007-2009 match years. Plus the sample sizes are quite small for many programs.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

He is copying the first part of each program's profile from matchapplicants.com

It looks like the data is self-reported so I wouldn't put much stock into it.

 

[Limetime]

This is a great question that I am struggling with too. I am hoping that once interviews roll around it will be easier to get a feel for what programs are a good fit for me, but getting to that point by just looking at program websites is mind numbing.

Arch - Do you have any thoughts?
Blade - thanks for the input.

I am a bit of a lurker, but as an applicant this year, I really do appreciate all the advice you all have to offer!

 

[BLADEMDA]

This is a great question that I am struggling with too. I am hoping that once interviews roll around it will be easier to get a feel for what programs are a good fit for me, but getting to that point by just looking at program websites is mind numbing.

Arch - Do you have any thoughts?
Blade - thanks for the input.

I am a bit of a lurker, but as an applicant this year, I really do appreciate all the advice you all have to offer!

Good to see you post. Remember that 90% of the programs are the same quality/difficulty to match they were in 2009. Maybe, a few like Mt Sinai moved up 10 notches but most are within 1-2 of where they were in 2009.

This means if they had an average Step 1 score of 210 and Step 2 of 220 they are still likely bottom 1/3 programs. Similary, if they were 240 Step 1 and 250 Step 2 they are likely top 20 programs. This way you can gear your applications to at least TEN programs which fit your profile. The lower your profile the more important it is to GEAR your application to the right programs and apply to a minimum of 20 which are a decent fit for your stats. This way you are likely to match.

 

[ProEra]

I found a few actual numbers reported by websites:
Northwestern 2014 match averages: Step 1: 242, Step 2: 249

Vanderbilt 2013 match average: Step 1: 245

These are suprisingly high.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I found a few actual numbers reported by websites:
Northwestern 2014 match averages: Step 1: 242, Step 2: 249

Vanderbilt 2013 match average: Step 1: 245

These are suprisingly high.

The top 15-20 programs are VERY High. Expect Step 1 of 240 and Step 2 of 245. FYI, you can include Northwestern in my top program list and Mt Sinai (based on what you all report) is top 20 these days.

Even if you have those scores I advise that you apply to FIVE mid tier programs as back-up.

 

[ProEra]

The top 15-20 programs are VERY High. Expect Step 1 of 240 and Step 2 of 245. FYI, you can include Northwestern in my top program list and Mt Sinai (based on what you all report) is top 20 these days.

Even if you have those scores I advise that you apply to FIVE mid tier programs as back-up.

Thanks for your help Blade. Are you a program director by any chance?

 

[anbuitachi]

Thanks for your help Blade. Are you a program director by any chance?

He's way too rich to be a program director

 

[anbuitachi]

The top 15-20 programs are VERY High. Expect Step 1 of 240 and Step 2 of 245. FYI, you can include Northwestern in my top program list and Mt Sinai (based on what you all report) is top 20 these days.

Even if you have those scores I advise that you apply to FIVE mid tier programs as back-up.

Just 5 midtiers? That will be enough? I was thinking of applying to 5-8 community programs

 

[IlDestriero]

I found a few actual numbers reported by websites:
Northwestern 2014 match averages: Step 1: 242, Step 2: 249

Vanderbilt 2013 match average: Step 1: 245

These are suprisingly high.

Everyone says anesthesia sucks, and is dead, and will be filled with IMGs again, but the lifestyle oriented generation Y or Z or whatever they are still look at anesthesia as a better lifestyle field than many.

 

[ProEra]

Everyone says anesthesia sucks, and is dead, and will be filled with IMGs again, but the lifestyle oriented generation Y or Z or whatever they are still look at anesthesia as a better lifestyle field than many.

My generation of students is definitely obsessed with "lifestyle", but I just assumed that with all the "sky is falling" rhetoric about anesthesia over the last several years that competitive students would have migrated much quicker to other specialties.

But then again, Northwestern and Vanderbilt are top programs in desirable locations and they will always be super competitive.

 

[Gern Blansten]

At least one of the below had three straight 2 year review cycles for their RRC reviews. Another is largely considered one of the weakest in their state. A couple of others have gone unfilled in the match within the last 4 years. You have identified several strong programs, but your list has some definite question marks in my mind. As you mentioned, most programs are good and everyone's list will differ greatly. I would take anyone's "top 20" list with a grain of salt. Everyone's list depends on their own biases and desires for a program (research vs clinical training vs big name faculty vs work hours vs location). There are really only a handful that are really troubled residency programs. Make your own lists based on the aspects that are most important to you.

Here are Programs which typically require HIGH Step Scores to match:

1. Johns Hopkins
2. Brigham
3. Duke
4. Stanford
5. Mass General
6. UCSF
7. Beth Israel (BID)
8. Mayo (Rochester)
8. Wash U
9. Cornell
11 Columbia
12 Vanderbilt
13 Virginia Mason

Also high up there:

Wake Forest
Univ of Alabama
Rush
Univ of Chicago
UCSD
UCLA
UNC

Another good group:

Mt Sinai (NYC)
Emory
Dartmouth
Yale
NYU
Univ of Michigan
Penn



I apologize if I left off a few programs which I'm certain I did. Back in my day I easily matched into one of those TOP programs (Vandy was a bottom program back then) as it wasn't nearly as difficult.

Today, I bet that my match would find me in the "good group" category which would be more than adequate for training a Med Student into a fine anesthesiologist.

 

[ProEra]

At least one of the below had three straight 2 year review cycles for their RRC reviews. Another is largely considered one of the weakest in their state. A couple of others have gone unfilled in the match within the last 4 years. You have identified several strong programs, but your list has some definite question marks in my mind. As you mentioned, most programs are good and everyone's list will differ greatly. I would take anyone's "top 20" list with a grain of salt. Everyone's list depends on their own biases and desires for a program (research vs clinical training vs big name faculty vs work hours vs location). There are really only a handful that are really troubled residency programs. Make your own lists based on the aspects that are most important to you.

I've been looking through past year's threads and haven't found the answer as to why some elite programs go unfilled from time to time. For example BWH, Michigan. I have no doubt they're great programs, but why are some unable to fill? Do they refrain from ranking all the candidates they interview? Do they not interview enough students? Do they purposefully go unfilled to add applicants who do not match in other specialties?

It seems odd that programs would allow this to happen on multiple occasions because it paints the program in a negative light, when in reality, they may be a great residency.

 

[Gern Blansten]

I've been looking through past year's threads and haven't found the answer as to why some elite programs go unfilled from time to time. For example BWH, Michigan. I have no doubt they're great programs, but why are some unable to fill? Do they refrain from ranking all the candidates they interview? Do they not interview enough students? Do they purposefully go unfilled to add applicants who do not match in other specialties?

It seems odd that programs would allow this to happen on multiple occasions because it paints the program in a negative light, when in reality, they may be a great residency.

Just as candidates need to have a variety of programs that they interview with (some top tier, some mid tier, safety programs, etc ) programs must also have diversity in strength of their candidates. If they only interview the best candidates, the other top programs are also interviewing those candidates and they will only win a handful of those recruiting battles. It is hard to fill your program with only top quartile, super high step score candidates. Many programs fill these interview spaces with candidates that have geographic ties to the area who are acceptable candidates who may otherwise be considered average candidates on paper. I think some programs get a bit arrogant and do not interview enough candidates or the right candidates or enough "next tier" candidates. In addition, when interviewing is done, the people making the rank list have to make tough decisions. Would they rather have an unfilled spot or have to spend the next four years with a candidate who was interviewed but felt to be of too low a caliber for their program? Most programs interview a handful of candidates that they end up not ranking because they would rather have the unfilled spot than that candidate. The candidate never knows unless both the program and the candidate go unmatched/unfilled. Ultimately, the program director must know their place in the competitiveness market to make sure they invite the correct caliber of students to optimize the strength of candidates that they match into their program. The fact that some solid programs go unfilled underscores how difficult it can be to judge the market place each year.
I will say that I do not consider a program "elite" if they have gone unfilled. They may still be a solid program, but they would not make my "elite" list. My list has many similarities to Blade's, but quite a few big differences as well.

 

[floridaboy18]

Don't let this stuff scare you too much. I was in the 230's on both my steps. I had almost zero research. Did one project that didn't pan out. No publications, one poster presentation at med student research day. Applied to like 29 programs and heard from 26. Only three I didn't hear from were Mount Sanai (laughable) and MGH and Brigham. Otherwise had interviews at wake, hopkins, beth-israel, wash u, cornell, columbia, vandy, duke, UVA, UAB... All of my top 5 all but guarunteed me a spot. Matched at number 1.

Scores don't mean everything. Don't fret. If you have other interesting things in addition to scores, you will be fine. Also, writing/calling a program with which you have a particular interest (family in the area, etc) is helpful.

 

[anbuitachi]

Don't let this stuff scare you too much. I was in the 230's on both my steps. I had almost zero research. Did one project that didn't pan out. No publications, one poster presentation at med student research day. Applied to like 29 programs and heard from 26. Only three I didn't hear from were Mount Sanai (laughable) and MGH and Brigham. Otherwise had interviews at wake, hopkins, beth-israel, wash u, cornell, columbia, vandy, duke, UVA, UAB... All of my top 5 all but guarunteed me a spot. Matched at number 1.

Scores don't mean everything. Don't fret. If you have other interesting things in addition to scores, you will be fine. Also, writing/calling a program with which you have a particular interest (family in the area, etc) is helpful.

What? This sounds too good to be true. You must've had something that made you stand out. Did you honor all your classes? Are you a olympic athlete? Celebrity??

Your top 5 choices guaranteed you a spot?? How does that work. They sent you a letter?

And when did you apply???

 

[Ronin2258]

I would be more curious to see how they did with first pass on the written board/oral boards. "If I get in, will the teaching in that program give me the best chance to pass the board?" We all know there is a failure rate to the boards. Which ones have the most failures in their graduating classes? To me, and I will confess not being the brightest light in the marquee, being able to get a resident to board certification is no small task.

I would have to agree with Glen, some of those schools do raise question marks based being good programs based on just their Step score status. I know one on that list was just south of my program, and I could tell through talking with them that they were clueless on some things. Heck, CRNAs that did per diem between the two cities feared that program's residents.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Those who do well on tests tend to well on board examinations; hence, programs that look for high Step 1 and 2 scores (over 240) will have a very high board pass rate. It's called selection bias.

What you really want to see is a program with an average step of 220 with a board examination pass rate of 99 percent.

As for "rankings" I'm not the person who requested to list the "top" programs. As I've stated many times a good mid tier program will allow a motivated med student to become an outstanding Anesthesiologist. University of Pittsburgh is just such a program.

Emory
Pitt
Miami
UT southwestern

These are just examples. The reason rankings matter is because they influence med students who then decide that is "the" program to match into. Mount Sinai is the perfect example. I know the program well. The reason it is top 20 has nothing to do with case load or teaching and everything to do with lifestyle (easiest program with a good name in NYC). Generation Y or Z wants easy over quality/hard work so that is the reason for Sinai's meteoric rise up the list.

Med students determine Step scores for each program (high step scores means more desirable based on med student reasoning) which influenced rankings.

For example, for decades Vanderbilt had a terrible anesthesia program. It was weak and bottom 1/3. But the name recognition allowed it to quickly rise up the list even though the teaching lagged the ranking. Yes, Vanderbilt has a good program now but even when it was mediocre med students still went by the name rather than the quality of the education/training.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I found a few actual numbers reported by websites:
Northwestern 2014 match averages: Step 1: 242, Step 2: 249

Vanderbilt 2013 match average: Step 1: 245

These are suprisingly high.

No. Med students have determined these programs are top 20 and apply accordingly. Do these programs deserve their status? Is the name recognition worthy of a 240 plus step score? Who knows. The truth is perception matters more than reality and med students have a huge say over what programs are the best.

For example, if a program had a fancy name, worked the resident 35 hours per week, had 10 hours of lecture per week and offered a $5,000 per year bonus for a high in service exam score I'm pretty sure med students would rank that place in the top 10. But, the reality is a program like Cleveland Clinic which works Residents harder than average is probably a better program. But, those with a step score of 245 may be looking for a fancy name, prestige, limited work hours and connections in the specialty more than the training itself.

I'm not bashing any programs but rather trying to explain why a better program (in my opinion) may actually require a lower step score to match than the supposedly top 20 program.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Don't let this stuff scare you too much. I was in the 230's on both my steps. I had almost zero research. Did one project that didn't pan out. No publications, one poster presentation at med student research day. Applied to like 29 programs and heard from 26. Only three I didn't hear from were Mount Sanai (laughable) and MGH and Brigham. Otherwise had interviews at wake, hopkins, beth-israel, wash u, cornell, columbia, vandy, duke, UVA, UAB... All of my top 5 all but guarunteed me a spot. Matched at number 1.

Scores don't mean everything. Don't fret. If you have other interesting things in addition to scores, you will be fine. Also, writing/calling a program with which you have a particular interest (family in the area, etc) is helpful.

I disagree with your post. Scores matter a great deal and the majority of med students won't match at a program where their step scores are way off from the median. This means apply strategically but allow yourself a few Hail Mary applications.

One last thing to mention is that Step scores, dean's letter and other letters, clerkship grades, interview, etc all play a role in where you match. Step scores aren't they only factor but they do matter... A lot.

 

[anbuitachi]

Those who do well on tests tend to well on board examinations; hence, programs that look for high Step 1 and 2 scores (over 240) will have a very high board pass rate. It's called selection bias.

What you really want to see is a program with an average step of 220 with a board examination pass rate of 99 percent.

As for "rankings" I'm not the person who requested to list the "top" programs. As I've stated many times a good mid tier program will allow a motivated med student to become an outstanding Anesthesiologist. University of Pittsburgh is just such a program.

Emory
Pitt
Miami
UT southwestern

These are just examples. The reason rankings matter is because they influence med students who then decide that is "the" program to match into. Mount Sinai is the perfect example. I know the program well. The reason it is top 20 has nothing to do with case load or teaching and everything to do with lifestyle (easiest program with a good name in NYC). Generation Y or Z wants easy over quality/hard work so that is the reason for Sinai's meteoric rise up the list.

Med students determine Step scores for each program (high step scores means more desirable based on med student reasoning) which influenced rankings.

For example, for decades Vanderbilt had a terrible anesthesia program. It was weak and bottom 1/3. But the name recognition allowed it to quickly rise up the list even though the teaching lagged the ranking. Yes, Vanderbilt has a good program now but even when it was mediocre med students still went by the name rather than the quality of the education/training.

Thats odd. Students at my school believe Mt sinai to be one of the top if not the top quality training program in NYC. We were also told that they work hard, harder than they do in NYU, but not as hard as Cornell/Columbia.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Thats odd. Students at my school believe Mt sinai to be one of the top if not the top quality training program in NYC. We were also told that they work hard, harder than they do in NYU, but not as hard as Cornell/Columbia.

For 2 decades Mt. Sinai has been a "lifestyle" oriented program while the other NYC programs relied heavily on their reputations to convince Med Students that working harder was the way to go. These days Med Students want "lifestyle" and Sinai delivers in spades. This will force other NYC programs to cater more to Residents and decrease workloads. Perhaps, NYU has already realized it has no choice but to do so. The training at Sinai is good but is it better than Cornell or Columbia? doubtful.

 

[ProEra]

For 2 decades Mt. Sinai has been a "lifestyle" oriented program while the other NYC programs relied heavily on their reputations to convince Med Students that working harder was the way to go. These days Med Students want "lifestyle" and Sinai delivers in spades. This will force other NYC programs to cater more to Residents and decrease workloads. Perhaps, NYU has already realized it has no choice but to do so. The training at Sinai is good but is it better than Cornell or Columbia? doubtful.

So if my primary goal is to become a badass anesthesiologist right out of residency, would you agree that going to a hard-working program with higher workloads is the best to achieve this? If we put lifestyle on the backburner, does going to a harder working program lead to positive results as an attending?

 

[BLADEMDA]

So if my primary goal is to become a badass anesthesiologist right out of residency, would you agree that going to a hard-working program with higher workloads is the best to achieve this? If we put lifestyle on the backburner, does going to a harder working program lead to positive results as an attending?

Like most things in life there is a bell-shaped curved; that said, the answer is that most Residents benefit by doing more cases and working harder provided the program gives you the challenging cases as a CA-3. If all you get as a CA-3 is more bread and butter then there is limited upside. With a good attitude and a match at a Mid tier Program or higher the odds favor you becoming a well-qualified Anesthesiologist.

 

[BLADEMDA]

So if my primary goal is to become a badass anesthesiologist right out of residency, would you agree that going to a hard-working program with higher workloads is the best to achieve this? If we put lifestyle on the backburner, does going to a harder working program lead to positive results as an attending?

Sinai has a good program. I think it is a great balance of work vs lifestyle and produces Excellent Anesthesiologists. Perhaps, Cornell and Columbia need to make the working conditions better so Med Students want to match there over Sinai.

 

[ProEra]

Here's some more fodder for residency rankings/quality:

Doximity Anesthesia rankings
https://www.doximity.com/residency_navigator/programs#residency_specialty_id=40

1.UCSF
2.MGH
3.BWH
4.Duke
5.Stanford
6.Hopkins
7.Penn
8.Mayo
9.Michigan
10.Pitt

 

[deleted171991]

Can you really decide which surgical residency program is right for you using Doximity's Residency Navigator?

I don't think so, and here's why.

The rankings of residency programs were obtained by surveying surgeon members of Doximity. They were asked name the five top programs for clinical surgery training. When the survey was announced in June, I predicted that most respondents would probably overlook the word "clinical" and focus on the usual famous academic institutions.

I also pointed out that anyone not intimately familiar with a program would be unable to judge whether it is good or not and suggested that reputation would be the main driver of results.

In fact, that is exactly what happened. Of the top 40 programs listed, all are based at university hospitals, as are 66 of the top 70. Back in June, I speculated about the top five programs and got the first two correct but in the wrong order.

Board passage rates for programs, which are available online, were omitted for some and were not clearly identified as the percentage of residents who passed both parts of the boards on the first attempt only.

The percentile rankings of alumni peer-reviewed articles, grants, and clinical trials are displayed prominently. What do those data have to do with the research question—which residency programs "offer the best clinical training"?

http://skepticalscalpel.blogspot.com/2014/09/more-ratingsthis-time-its-residency.html

I would expect anesthesia rankings to be as relevant as the surgical ones.

 

[gassyPants]

Unfortunately, outside of the brand names, I really didn't have a good idea of how a program was until I visited it - or at least talked to other applicants about it. I was routinely surprised by what I found. The interview selection/ranking is a total black box, or, in the case of my program, a total meat market - they show pictures and resumes of interviewed applicants on a screen, the interviewers discuss what they think and everyone in the department who feels like showing up that evening ranks them.

My advice is to agonize less, unless you are a total badass and think you'll do fine with the top-whatever programs. Just apply to however many programs that seem fine/are in places you can live, go to whatever interviews you get, then rank them in the order that you think they'll give you the best training. You'll catch good fish in that net.

I'll add the caveat that if you want to stay in the same location as where you are doing your training, you may want to factor in the demand in the local job market as well as the availability of nearby fellowships. I wish I'd thought of that.

 

[IlDestriero]

If you want to be a badass anesthesiologist, you need to go to a major or at least regional referral center that offers full service care and routinely does complex cases (Trauma or transplant, neuro, lots of cardiac and vascular, etc.). Any dunce can do bread and butter cases, even a nurse can learn to do them efficiently. 😉
What separates the men from the boys is who can manage the complex cases and act now or die disasters easily. Do you need to manage these cases in your slick PP job in the fancy hospital? No. HOWEVER, when the stool hits the fan and the patient is circling the drain, those old habits come back and your cold as ice demeanor and dusty ninja skills may make a big difference.
I have worked and/or trained at a couple 10/10 programs and a 5/10 program. The average program emphasized teaching, lots of required lectures, had a near 100% pass rate, decent hours, and did some reasonably complex cases. The 10/10 program had longer hours, was much larger, relied more in self study and as a result had some people fail the first attempt, but the cases that were done there on a regular basis were an order of magnitude more complex than the other program. They attract leaders in their fields that get the worst referral cases and push the envelope. That's where you want to cut your teeth.
Then you can chill at your boutique practice with "healthy" hearts and private insurance.

 

[gassyPants]

Duplicate.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Arch - Do you have any thoughts?

It has been over 10 years since I was on the interview trail so I am probably not much help. The top programs probably don't vary too much over the years and the bottom-feeders probably don't either. Most other places are probably perfectly adequate places to train. A couple of dozen of them could probably make a claim to being in the top ten.

I would figure out what geographic area of the country you want to be. Search past posts here. Talk to other people. Figure out where you stand in the pack academically. Talk to advisors (if you have them). Do some away rotations if you want. Apply to a good mix of programs. Pick and choose where you want to interview. Good luck.

Every year things are touted to be getting more and more competitive, but I can remember folks saying the same things over 10 years ago.

I had a Step I of 200 and I interviewed at 2 of the perpetual top 10 programs, and 2 programs that should arguably be in the top 10 - all of which flies in the face of almost everything you read in this forum.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Here's some more fodder for residency rankings/quality:

Doximity Anesthesia rankings
https://www.doximity.com/residency_navigator/programs#residency_specialty_id=40

1.UCSF
2.MGH
3.BWH
4.Duke
5.Stanford
6.Hopkins
7.Penn
8.Mayo
9.Michigan
10.Pitt

Solid programs.. all of them. But, Pitt in the top ten? Really? I'm glad others have recognized that is a great program in a not so great location.

 

[Limetime]

I would figure out what geographic area of the country you want to be. Search past posts here. Talk to other people. Figure out where you stand in the pack academically. Talk to advisors (if you have them). Do some away rotations if you want. Apply to a good mix of programs. Pick and choose where you want to interview. Good luck.

Arch - Thanks so much!

 

[imfrankie]

Solid programs.. all of them. But, Pitt in the top ten? Really? I'm glad others have recognized that is a great program in a not so great location.

Are you kidding? UPMC must certainly be one of the best places in the world to train in anesthesia. Their ICU, Peds, Transplant, Regional, and big ole gnarly case volume must rival any institution anywhere. Gimme a break, they are not world-class my backside.

 

[imfrankie]

Are you kidding? UPMC must certainly be one of the best places in the world to train in anesthesia. Their ICU, Peds, Transplant, Regional, and big ole gnarly case volume must rival any institution anywhere. Gimme a break, they are not world-class my backside.

Maybe the Eton toffs would turn it down, but I sure wouldn't.

 

[B-Bone]

What if for personal or practical or other reasons you end up at a lower tier program -- is it still possible to come out a badass anesthesiologist if you work your ass off, make the most of every opportunity even if the opportunities are slim, etc.?

In other words, how much of the "badassery" depends on the program (e.g., providing complex cases as IlDestriero notes, didactics) and how much on the person (e.g., strong work ethic, not complaining but just getting the job done, working well with all colleagues and staff including surgeons, CRNAs if there are any, the janitorial staff, etc., doing one's utmost to learn from all sorts of available opportunities even if they are not ideal)?

It's hard to get good at hearts if you do the ABA minimum. Same goes for peds, blocks, and pretty much everything. Do you need to do 20 liver transplants to be a badass? Nope, but it sure helps. If you do 40 peripheral blocks totally during your residency (the ABA minimum) you're probably not super slick at any particular block. You can make up for a lack of didactics with dedication and self study, but you can't make up the cases or the procedures on your own.

 

[floridaboy18]

What? This sounds too good to be true. You must've had something that made you stand out. Did you honor all your classes? Are you a olympic athlete? Celebrity??

Your top 5 choices guaranteed you a spot?? How does that work. They sent you a letter?

And when did you apply???

I am not saying that scores don't matter. They certainly do. It seems that most of the top programs score cut off for step exams are >230 or 235, or at least they were when I went through the process three years ago (just started my CA-2 year). Some clearly required you to be AOA if your scores were in the 230s. I was student body president of my medical school and played collegiate sports (Div II), and had some additional leadership stuff that made me stand out. Aside from that, I interview well and had strong letters.

You need to make cut offs for step scores. That and letters in my opinion (from being on the recruitment committee for my residency) are what get you in the door. What you don't understand is that who determines that you get an interivew at a lot of programs is the residency coordinator/secretary. You don't really think that a program director has the time to go through 1000 applications, do you? Now the assistant program director might mine through some borderline applications looking for some gems, but they don't look at them all. I can guarantee you that.

Once in the door, your interview skills and interpersonal skills are what get you a spot. Once deemed "admissible" (i.e. scores, letters, and grades prove you are intelligent/skilled enough in their opinion to succeed) the next question they are trying to answer is whether they want to work with you for the next four years (are you a "team player," hard working, fun to be around, etc).

So, in my case...my scores, letters, and grades were good enough to be "admissible." That certainly doesn't mean I was the brightest or most intelligent applying. It simply implies I was intelligent/skilled enough where they didn't need to worry about me succeeding. Then, I interviewed well, and my top programs thought I would be an attribute to their respective program. So, they offered me a spot if I wanted it.

 

[likeaboss]

blade- what about UCLA, USC and Cedars?

Thanks!!

 

[Bryan O’Blivion]

Are you kidding? UPMC must certainly be one of the best places in the world to train in anesthesia. Their ICU, Peds, Transplant, Regional, and big ole gnarly case volume must rival any institution anywhere. Gimme a break, they are not world-class my backside.

I interviewed there, and I thought that it seemed really good. Programs I interviewed at that I would recommend highly are Virginia Mason, UVA, and Pitt. Each of them have different aspects that make them really good choices depending on what you want. They don't have the name recognition that the top ten list has, but I think that they are good places to apply to, and that one would get good training. OP, if you are looking for a few more places, I would add these. As far as gauging your chances of interview, it's hard to say. Generally, it seemed to me that having good Steps will always help (Captain Obvious to Ground Control), but not having stellar grades is OK. That was my experience. Good luck.