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No. and if its been expunged, then i think you dont even have to report it.
how to get into a phd program? rejected from 17 programs
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No. and if its been expunged, then i think you dont even have to report it.
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There is a semantic difference. Crimes which occur as a minor are typically adjudicated. This process differs from the way adults are charged with crimes. When a crime is adjudicated it is different from what we think of as a conviction and is technically not a conviction. What happened in your friends case is that his case was adjudicated and when he turned 18 assuming nothing else occurred in the interim he was off the hook. There is no "charge" or "record" to expunge. Expungement is when a criminal conviction is "sealed" or "wiped-off" of someones record.
The only people who will EVER be able to see that he was arrested and adjudicated are, as you mentioned, federal law enforcement. I am not sure the standards adhered to by the VA in hiring but I would imagine it is a pretty typical process involving little more than the livescan....
I'm sorry to hear about your application experience-- how disappointing and frustrating. People have given some really great suggestions. I had a couple other thoughts...
The lab I'm in employs about 12 post-bacc RAs. I have seen a LOT of extremely bright and motivated people get passed over, including many who did everything right-- numbers, research experience, posters/pubs, letters. What seems to make a huge difference in their success is a combination of match + personal connection. It's one thing to have your letter writers say nice things about you, it's quite another if they actually suggest people you should apply to, and help you make that connection. I don't think it's just nepotism. It shows that your letter-writer has so much faith in your ability that they'll stake their reputation on you, and it also suggests the likelihood of a good intellectual match. I don't really know how faculty members wade through all of the applications-- they have to have some heuristic, and a personal recommendation from a trusted colleague is probably pretty reliable. And this is probably a way to get around the issue with the misdemeanor.
The second thing to consider (and forgive me if this sounds harsh-- not my intent)... is that you're a bit of a gamble. If you don't have an academic background in psychology and you don't have research experience in clinical psychology, it might be hard for faculty to see why you want to be a clinical psychologist... since presumably, if you were interested, you would have pursued these experiences. It's sort of like you enjoy golf so much you decided you want to be a tennis pro. You have to have something to back it up.
As for being 40 before your career starts... being broke sucks, and it's a lot to sign on for another decade of being a junior colleague. But I think it makes sense to view every step between now and graduation as part of your career. Find a research job that has a clear fit with your goals for graduate school, and use that time to develop expertise in something and develop professional relationships Those skills and connections will help you when you start graduate school.
The lab I'm in employs about 12 post-bacc RAs. I have seen a LOT of extremely bright and motivated people get passed over, including many who did everything right-- numbers, research experience, posters/pubs, letters. What seems to make a huge difference in their success is a combination of match + personal connection. It's one thing to have your letter writers say nice things about you, it's quite another if they actually suggest people you should apply to, and help you make that connection. I don't think it's just nepotism. It shows that your letter-writer has so much faith in your ability that they'll stake their reputation on you, and it also suggests the likelihood of a good intellectual match. I don't really know how faculty members wade through all of the applications-- they have to have some heuristic, and a personal recommendation from a trusted colleague is probably pretty reliable. And this is probably a way to get around the issue with the misdemeanor.
The second thing to consider (and forgive me if this sounds harsh-- not my intent)... is that you're a bit of a gamble. If you don't have an academic background in psychology and you don't have research experience in clinical psychology, it might be hard for faculty to see why you want to be a clinical psychologist... since presumably, if you were interested, you would have pursued these experiences. It's sort of like you enjoy golf so much you decided you want to be a tennis pro. You have to have something to back it up.
As for being 40 before your career starts... being broke sucks, and it's a lot to sign on for another decade of being a junior colleague. But I think it makes sense to view every step between now and graduation as part of your career. Find a research job that has a clear fit with your goals for graduate school, and use that time to develop expertise in something and develop professional relationships Those skills and connections will help you when you start graduate school.
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately it seems the things holding me back from getting into a PHD program are also holding me back from getting a research job. I really thought you could get into a master's program with qualifications like mine.
As far as getting a research job, I asked the two clinical professors I had and they told me I could simply contact labs on campus and at other campuses around me. But they couldn't put me in touch with anyone specific. Basically the labs around here basically tell me they fill those positions with either work study students or graduate students. Seems if they are going to pay someone they want to pay someone who has actual experience. And if you are doing basic grunt work they can just get undergraduate volunteers or work study students for that. My profs also told me a few websites to look and I have been applying to various positions around the country, sometimes just contacting labs even if they don't have an advertisement for a position (my one professor said this couldn't hurt). Basically same deal. The vast majority of them I do not meet their requirements, sometimes I apply anything. For the most part I hear nothing back, sometimes get a reply saying they have filled the position with someone who's background and experience better meets their needs.
Kind of looking like this is the kind of thing you HAVE to get into during undergraduate otherwise you'll never been able to get the background experience unless you're at a point in you're life where you are financially comfortable enough to be able to volunteer
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"Kind of looking like this is the kind of thing you HAVE to get into during undergraduate otherwise you'll never been able to get the background experience unless you're at a point in you're life where you are financially comfortable enough to be able to volunteer "
Disagree. I wasn't a psych major at all, and I'm now finishing up an MS program and entering into a quality research-based PhD program. Sorry if some of my advice is redundant, as I've only vaguely been reading this thread since it started
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Nontraditional paths can work. They key is building the skill-set through various opportunities, and then making that clear through your CV and personal statement. At my first FT job, I learned a lot about data, writing code, and analyzing/presenting data and projects... even though the subject matter wasn't Psychology. In my second FT job, I learned a lot about research, data collection, writing and submitting manuscripts, working with the IRB, medicine, etc.... again, not in Psychology. While working FT, I volunteered in Psych labs, took Psych classes in person and online, read a lot of books, and talked to a lot of professors and grad students- which helped me develop a psych foundation. I also made it clear in my pstatement how my interests evolved over time. You need to figure out your "story" that you're going to "sell" in your next round of applications.
Here's what i would do if I was you:
- Keep working in your cog psych lab, at least PT, and make clear that your end goal is getting at least one manuscript and one poster. Try proposing a project that would fit in with their research but stretches it into psychology (legit come with a sketched out research proposal- minimize the workload on them). Try adding on a piece to a project that is already existing. Come with your own ideas and make it proactive. For example, if your lab studies xyz, then you can propose in your next round of applications that you're interested in studying schizophrenia + xyz. Or anxiety + xyz. Makes you unique, and gives you a niche compared to the other applicants.
- Contact PIs nearby in closer research areas to yours with a note and your CV and tell them you're looking for volunteer opportunities on nights/weekends/whatever fits into your schedule, and that you're willing to do anything. You never know- if you do some data entry for a prof at night and do a great job, when an opportunity opens up- he's going to be thinking about offering it to you first, over a stranger. Or perhaps mention some research ideas in conversation after you've worked with him for a bit, and see how he takes it- whether or not he'd be open to you pursuing your own projects in his lab. Make it clear that you're very interested, and again- be proactive.
- Make sure you have all foundational courses. If not, take them- at a graduate level. Harvard Extension School does decent online courses, or go to a university near you. You might even be able to find a nontraditional scholarship to cover the cost.
- Look at all the online job websites- craigslist, monster, indeed, etc. Also look at the job listings at individual universities, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, research organizations- whatever you can find that is related. Apply to all of them, with a great cover letter and well-checked resume/CV.
Honestly, I think the key is to get great research experience and skills that result in publications/posters, make connections with people in your field, and show that you have potential. Literally every person applying has a decent GPA and a year or two of research experience- you have to stand out from the pack. Whether it's by a name of someone you worked with on your CV, by having some posters/publications, skills in certain areas (data, stats, whatever), or an interesting niche- who knows.
And older students likely have an advantage in my opinion- that came up multiple times during my interviews.
Disagree. I wasn't a psych major at all, and I'm now finishing up an MS program and entering into a quality research-based PhD program. Sorry if some of my advice is redundant, as I've only vaguely been reading this thread since it started
.Nontraditional paths can work. They key is building the skill-set through various opportunities, and then making that clear through your CV and personal statement. At my first FT job, I learned a lot about data, writing code, and analyzing/presenting data and projects... even though the subject matter wasn't Psychology. In my second FT job, I learned a lot about research, data collection, writing and submitting manuscripts, working with the IRB, medicine, etc.... again, not in Psychology. While working FT, I volunteered in Psych labs, took Psych classes in person and online, read a lot of books, and talked to a lot of professors and grad students- which helped me develop a psych foundation. I also made it clear in my pstatement how my interests evolved over time. You need to figure out your "story" that you're going to "sell" in your next round of applications.
Here's what i would do if I was you:
- Keep working in your cog psych lab, at least PT, and make clear that your end goal is getting at least one manuscript and one poster. Try proposing a project that would fit in with their research but stretches it into psychology (legit come with a sketched out research proposal- minimize the workload on them). Try adding on a piece to a project that is already existing. Come with your own ideas and make it proactive. For example, if your lab studies xyz, then you can propose in your next round of applications that you're interested in studying schizophrenia + xyz. Or anxiety + xyz. Makes you unique, and gives you a niche compared to the other applicants.
- Contact PIs nearby in closer research areas to yours with a note and your CV and tell them you're looking for volunteer opportunities on nights/weekends/whatever fits into your schedule, and that you're willing to do anything. You never know- if you do some data entry for a prof at night and do a great job, when an opportunity opens up- he's going to be thinking about offering it to you first, over a stranger. Or perhaps mention some research ideas in conversation after you've worked with him for a bit, and see how he takes it- whether or not he'd be open to you pursuing your own projects in his lab. Make it clear that you're very interested, and again- be proactive.
- Make sure you have all foundational courses. If not, take them- at a graduate level. Harvard Extension School does decent online courses, or go to a university near you. You might even be able to find a nontraditional scholarship to cover the cost.
- Look at all the online job websites- craigslist, monster, indeed, etc. Also look at the job listings at individual universities, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, research organizations- whatever you can find that is related. Apply to all of them, with a great cover letter and well-checked resume/CV.
Honestly, I think the key is to get great research experience and skills that result in publications/posters, make connections with people in your field, and show that you have potential. Literally every person applying has a decent GPA and a year or two of research experience- you have to stand out from the pack. Whether it's by a name of someone you worked with on your CV, by having some posters/publications, skills in certain areas (data, stats, whatever), or an interesting niche- who knows.
And older students likely have an advantage in my opinion- that came up multiple times during my interviews.
Thank you Lisa for the detailed reply. Unfortunately that research position was through work study and funds are not available to continue. I think you had a really good idea about how I could have utilized my time there better by conducting a study like you mentioned.
UPDATE:
I was accepted to a master's program in general psychology. I would have to take out loans in order to complete it. Do you think this would be a good way to get more research experience and maybe complete a publication or present at some conferences?
It looks like a few past students have been published or were able to present at a conference while in the program.
UPDATE:
I was accepted to a master's program in general psychology. I would have to take out loans in order to complete it. Do you think this would be a good way to get more research experience and maybe complete a publication or present at some conferences?
It looks like a few past students have been published or were able to present at a conference while in the program.
Personally, I don't think it's worth paying to get research experience, given that there are paid research positions available and volunteer positions that offer the same benefits. Additionally, if you get the master's degree and run into same "red flag" problem, you'll be in the same position you're in now, but with more debt and an impractical degree.
I think you need to go back to the drawing board and find out what's preventing you from getting a paid research position.
I think that comes down to lack of network connections, lack of actual psychology research experience, and not being a psychology major (even though I have completed all the core courses).
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No, it's completely possible without connections, psychology research experience, and not being a psych major (I'm proof- plus many other people are too).
It's something else. Review your cover letters carefully, and your CV carefully. Have multiple people proofread. Take your semi-related experiences and explain how those make you qualified for the job, and maybe even MORE qualified than people who have a more traditional path. There's always something you can draw on.
Make sure you're casting a wide enough net- don't just apply to the most convenient ones- apply to as many places as possible. When I left my RC job at a major hospital we had hundreds of applications for my position. Sometimes it's just a numbers game- the more you can apply to, the more likely someone will read your CV or cover letter, like what they hear, and invite you to interview.
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Others may disagree with me, but my answer is YES!
Go to that masters program, stand out and improve every weakness you have. Get published, work on your understanding of methodology, writing skills, and strive to get into clinical programs in the next two years. I'd even consider applying to clinical (if it's still what you want to do) after starting your MA/MS program. Doing something like that gives you an oppourtunity to greatly strengthen your skills, vita, letter of rec, and focus for the future.
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I would recommend more than having someone merely proofread. For the CV, I would have people you trust provide feedback on the formatting, the experiences you choose to list, the detail you provide, and the overal aesthetics of the document. I have put a good amount of time into my CV over the years, and I believe it has paid off. Multiple people have wanted to emulate the style of my CV, and I landed a great postdoc where they specifically mentioned how nicely I presented the information on my CV. I have seen numerous examples of CVs where someone seriously under-represents their experiences or the format is unappealing or hard to read...for some, it could be the deal-breaker among CVs of those with similar experiences.
For your cover letters, I would ask multiple people to provide you with feedback on how well you present yourself, how clearly you convey your interest and fit, and if they have any suggestions for rewording any pieces that may be slightly unclear or awkward.
Hope this helps. I'm a huge nerd when it comes to tweaking my CV.
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This has been my experience as well (and I have a minor offense as a minor). I've been through various and extensive background checks, including some with the NSA, and they never dinged me for it.
I'm going to have to agree with bmed. I think, in some situations, a master's may not be worth it. But, if research experience is a deficit for you and you're unable to locate paid research experience elsewhere, then I'd say go for it. I might caution about a general psych, however, and attempt to find a program that is experimental in nature and/or that requires a thesis in the least. This may actually benefit you, if oh, say you leave your doctoral program earlier than anticipated (i.e., you don't graduate). My experimental master's (in addition to experience) has gotten my app past the door on some very well-paying positions.
If I didn't have it, I might be stuck working at Culver's (who won't hire me anyway because I have too much education/work history). This has been my experience as well (and I have a minor offense as a minor). I've been through various and extensive background checks, including some with the NSA, and they never dinged me for it.
I'm going to have to agree with bmed. I think, in some situations, a master's may not be worth it. But, if research experience is a deficit for you and you're unable to locate paid research experience elsewhere, then I'd say go for it. I might caution about a general psych, however, and attempt to find a program that is experimental in nature and/or that requires a thesis in the least. This may actually benefit you, if oh, say you leave your doctoral program earlier than anticipated (i.e., you don't graduate). My experimental master's (in addition to experience) has gotten my app past the door on some very well-paying positions.
My mistake, I should have clarified. They call it "general research psychology" but it does seem to be experimental in nature because a thesis is required.
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