how to get into a phd program? rejected from 17 programs

[Mellitus]

I want to do a phd in clinical psychology because I want to do research but after some setbacks I'm unsure of the best way to proceed.

I applied to 15 phd programs, rejected to all.
also rejected from 2 master's programs (1 in general psyc, and 1 in clinical) as well which was rather surprising.

I ended up with a 3.6 gpa from a top 30 school (top 15 public), 163v, 154q, 4.0aw, and I had research experience of 2 years but it was in a cognitive psychology lab. I guess the biggest thing I thought would hurt me is that I was a humanities major and only minored in psychology, but I thought the minor and the research experience would be enough.

All my professors I talked to said they thought I would get into a phd program, they were impressed with my letters and SOP's. So I don't know if one of them lied when they said they'd be happy to write me a positive letter or if not having the major/more closely related research exp. hurt me that much.

i am still waiting to hear from 2 other terminal master's programs (one in clinical psyc, and one general) but i'm wondering if it is worth it as it seems like they will let almost anybody in and i would almost surely have to take out loans in order to do them.

I have tried finding paid research assistant positions in departments more closely related to clinical but I have not had any luck. I am not financially able to volunteer at this point in my life. I lack a lot of connections in clinical psychology so that could be hurting me from acquiring a position like that. Also I'm 27 y. old could they be hesitant to accept someone this much older than most students?

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[kcm146]

did you get any interviews at all? I find it hard to believe w your credentials that you wouldn't get any interviews. (btw, 27 is NOT old. at least that's what I tell myself every day...)

 

[Mellitus]

0 interviews. i'm really quite confused by all this. especially after getting rejections to the master's programs. I feel like there is something on my app that is souring it to the admissions committees but I have no idea what. When I asked all my recommenders I was clear to ask if they "would be comfortable writing a positive letter for me" and they all said yes and were very encouraging.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

One thing you could try doing is contacting the programs to which you applied and seeing if they'd be able to offer any constructive feedback. If there were a particularly red flag, one of them might be willing to point it out.

 

[phillydave]

That seems really strange to not even get a single interview. Just to rule out a couple other possibilities, do you have any sort of criminal record? Is there possibly anything on your applications that does not match your academic transcripts or SOP?

 

[Mellitus]

One thing you could try doing is contacting the programs to which you applied and seeing if they'd be able to offer any constructive feedback. If there were a particularly red flag, one of them might be willing to point it out.

Thanks, I will probably do that.

That seems really strange to not even get a single interview. Just to rule out a couple other possibilities, do you have any sort of criminal record? Is there possibly anything on your applications that does not match your academic transcripts or SOP?

I have a misdemeanor from 2008 (very minor, had to pay an 85 dollar fine) which I explained in the applications that asked about it. it didn't hurt me getting into my undergrad so i don't think it would be that big of a deal now, especially since more time has passed. And actually for a few of the schools once they saw i had a criminal conviction i had to submit documentation to campus security before my app was forwarded back to the department for review. For every school that did this my app was reapproved and sent back to the department, so it looks like it wasn't an issue. Can't think of anything unusual on my transcripts, never made below a C, never on academic probation or anything like that

 

[phillydave]

In terms of the second question, about your transcripts, I was wondering if you had maybe accidentally stated something on your applications that did not match your transcripts or something in your SOP. E.g. your GPA, or extra-curricular activities, research experience, etc., something that made them think you were intentionally trying to misrepresent yourself.

 

[fallen625]

It's strange that you didn't get interviews. A couple of things that come to mind:

1. How long ago did you graduate and what have you been doing since? If you are in a completely unrelated field and not willing to take an RA position, this might be working against you.

2. What was the quality of your research experience like? Did you have any presentations/pubs?

3. What did you talk about in your SOP? Is there something you could have mentioned that killed your chances?

 

[LucidMind]

It is odd. One of the biggest things I learned from the application process last year was FIT...how well the program fits into your interests and vise versa. Did you emphasize how good of a fit you were for each specific program in your statement of purpose...or did you have a generic statement of purpose that you sent out too all of the schools??


Another thing to consider, did you make sure your POIs were accepting new students before you applied??

 

[HomeworkHelper]

Thanks, I will probably do that.

If you're committed to finding out why you did not get interviews, "probably" isn't good enough, you have to email or call the schools you applied to. We can speculate all we want on here, but the schools that did not offer you an interview are the ones that would know if there was a red flag somewhere or a combination of factors that went into their decision.

 

[phillydave]

Also, in thinking about your prior misdemeanor/conviction from 2008, I'm wondering (depending on what the crime was) if it would have an impact on applying to grad school more than undergrad. PhD and Masters programs are dealing with the risk of sending you into clinical work, while your undergraduate institution was not, especially given that your major was in humanities.

 

[Mellitus]

It is odd. One of the biggest things I learned from the application process last year was FIT...how well the program fits into your interests and vise versa. Did you emphasize how good of a fit you were for each specific program in your statement of purpose...or did you have a generic statement of purpose that you sent out too all of the schools??


Another thing to consider, did you make sure your POIs were accepting new students before you applied??

It's strange that you didn't get interviews. A couple of things that come to mind:

1. How long ago did you graduate and what have you been doing since? If you are in a completely unrelated field and not willing to take an RA position, this might be working against you.

I just graduated in December. I started late, but once I started I was full-time for the entire 4 years so they can see I am committed to being a student full-time even though I'm older.

2. What was the quality of your research experience like? Did you have any presentations/pubs?

I guess quality may be sub par as far as tangible things I can show for it. No presentation or publications, and I did not design any of my own experiments, but my professor seemed really pleased with the work I did.

3. What did you talk about in your SOP? Is there something you could have mentioned that killed your chances?

I tailored each one to each program, mentioning particular professors and their research (and made sure they were accepting students). I know I applied to a lot of schools but I'm not at all limited by geography and I really wanted to get accepted this year. I made sure each professor I applied to was in the line of work I want to do. I've read a few statements by other people and I guess the "fit" section of my letters could have been more in depth, maybe mentioning particular research ideas I had. But I'm still surprised I fared this poorly.

Also, in thinking about your prior misdemeanor/conviction from 2008, I'm wondering (depending on what the crime was) if it would have an impact on applying to grad school more than undergrad. PhD and Masters programs are dealing with the risk of sending you into clinical work, while your undergraduate institution was not, especially given that your major was in humanities.

In terms of the second question, about your transcripts, I was wondering if you had maybe accidentally stated something on your applications that did not match your transcripts or something in your SOP. E.g. your GPA, or extra-curricular activities, research experience, etc., something that made them think you were intentionally trying to misrepresent yourself.

I don't think so but I'll check through again. I appreciate these ideas. To know for sure though I guess I'll have to contact some schools and hope to get a response.


As far as where to go from here... do you think a master's program in clinical psych or general psych would increase my chances? Or should I just hope to eventually find another research assistant position? Rework my applications and reapply (not too keen on this one because I just absolutely wasted 2k+ applying this year?

 

[bcliff]

Given how competitive clinical PhD programs are (especially as compared to undergraduate admissions), I imagine that your criminal record may have been the deciding factor. University's have hundreds of applicants to pick from, and if they're choosing between an applicant with 'good' stats (which are most applicants) with a criminal record vs. without a criminal record, then (I would think) they're much more likely to take the applicant without the record.

I believe that if your applications weren't extremely specific to each POI in addition to your criminal record, then it may have been difficult for universities/faculty to 'justify' accepting you when there were other students with similar stats that either a.) fit better or b.) didn't have a remarkable legal history.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

Two things:

1) Where did you apply? Did you apply to 17 very competitive programs in metropolitan areas? Or, did you have some safety schools in there? If they are all very competitive, your chances are very slim, even if you applied to 17 of them.

2) You are unclear about your research experience. What did you do? Did you produce anything (publications, posters)? Did you develop your own project(s)? Is there anything in your CV that draws a connection to the POI's research, or did you just state an interest?

I agree that the criminal record, depending on what it is (and/or what they know about what it is), could be a red flag. Although it's not a felony, it could hinder your ability to get licensed in the future, and no program wants that.

ETA: Volunteering to get research experience is almost a necessity. I'm older than you, so I get the need to get paid, but honestly it's so competitive that you're going against applicants who've been bankrolled and hand-held to get research experience that is impossible otherwise. You may need to suck it up and volunteer, or at least work for a measly wage to get the experience. So many of us have done that.

 

[Mellitus]

Two things:

1) Where did you apply? Did you apply to 17 very competitive programs in metropolitan areas? Or, did you have some safety schools in there? If they are all very competitive, your chances are very slim, even if you applied to 17 of them.

2) You are unclear about your research experience. What did you do? Did you produce anything (publications, posters)? Did you develop your own project(s)? Is there anything in your CV that draws a connection to the POI's research, or did you just state an interest?

I agree that the criminal record, depending on what it is (and/or what they know about what it is), could be a red flag. Although it's not a felony, it could hinder your ability to get licensed in the future, and no program wants that.

ETA: Volunteering to get research experience is almost a necessity. I'm older than you, so I get the need to get paid, but honestly it's so competitive that you're going against applicants who've been bankrolled and hand-held to get research experience that is impossible otherwise. You may need to suck it up and volunteer, or at least work for a measly wage to get the experience. So many of us have done that.

Yeah I applied all over, many low ranked programs, rural areas, etc. My breakdown was probably 20 percent upper echelon, reach schools, 40% middle, 40% lower. I didn't produce anything myself although I think I got acknowledgements on some research. I was just an assistant, helped set up experiments, run participants, enter data. Also I have some computer skills so I did programming of new experiments to use in the future. I didn't design my own projects because it was a cognitive psyc lab which is not a field I am interested in.

And wow that is crazy about the criminal record. One minor mistake when you're a kid and it can ruin your career chances this far into the future? Is there a place where you can see what convictions will keep you from getting licensed?

 

[bmedclinic]

And wow that is crazy about the criminal record. One minor mistake when you're a kid and it can ruin your career chances this far into the future? Is there a place where you can see what convictions will keep you from getting licensed?

I can only speak to 1 instance where I know a person's criminal record kept them from gaining admission. In that case, the person also had very strong antisocial tendancies and it wasnt hard to get that vibe from him. In addition, his crimes were pretty offensive to some people and certainly multiple in nature. He ended up getting a MA in sociology (via connections) and has been blackballed pretty much since then from what I understand.

 

[PHD12]

And wow that is crazy about the criminal record. One minor mistake when you're a kid and it can ruin your career chances this far into the future? Is there a place where you can see what convictions will keep you from getting licensed?

1) People don't take criminal records lightly, especially in a field where you are responsible for mentally ill and disabled individuals. Were you over 18 when had this conviction? I'm actually surprised by your casual reaction.

I would recommend against clinical psychology as a career option. Even if you get into a program this will be a huge problem for you during the internship match (you have to disclose misdemeanors in the application from what I recall) and it will also need to be disclosed during licensure. This field is very competitive and unforgiving in many ways. As a psychologist, you are also working with the most vulnerable in our society so I honestly understand why this may be perceived as a problem, particularly when there are a 100 people without records who are dying to take your spot (I am not saying that this is fair and I don't know what your conviction is).

UPDATE: I just checked my APPIC internship application and they ask the following," Have ever been convicted of any offense other than a minor traffic violation?"

 

[phillydave]

If my math is right, you were about 22 when you were convicted? I just realized this, I originally figured you were a teenager when this happened. Unfortunately, the programs you applied to won't see you as having been a 'kid' when you were convicted. Hate to say it but I have to second what's been mentioned above, clinical psychology might be the wrong option at this point.

Not saying you should quit pursuit if you are really passionate about it, but it's not going to be an easy endeavor.

 

[G Costanza]

If my math is right, you were about 22 when you were convicted? I just realized this, I originally figured you were a teenager when this happened. Unfortunately, the programs you applied to won't see you as having been a 'kid' when you were convicted. Hate to say it but I have to second what's been mentioned above, clinical psychology might be the wrong option at this point.

Not saying you should quit pursuit if you are really passionate about it, but it's not going to be an easy endeavor.

I was thinking the same thing. Why take some with a record when there are 100 applicants that don't have one.

 

[erg923]

1) People don't take criminal records lightly, especially in a field where you are responsible for mentally ill and disabled individuals. Were you over 18 when had this conviction? I'm actually surprised by your casual reaction.

I would recommend against clinical psychology as a career option. Even if you get into a program this will be a huge problem for you during the internship match (you have to disclose misdemeanors in the application from what I recall) and it will also need to be disclosed during licensure. This field is very competitive and unforgiving in many ways. As a psychologist, you are also working with the most vulnerable in our society so I honestly understand why this may be perceived as a problem, particularly when there are a 100 people without records who are dying to take your spot (I am not saying that this is fair and I don't know what your conviction is).

UPDATE: I just checked my APPIC internship application and they ask the following," Have ever been convicted of any offense other than a minor traffic violation?"

Slow ya roll...phd12

If the fine was 85 bucks, it was just a probably noise violation or a disorderly or something. God knows I could have gotten multiple of those every time my alma matter got to the final four...

There is no reason anything like that should keep you out of a program, much less getting licensed, unless it happened yesterday or something.

I'd happily take a student who's spent a couple hours in the drunk tank one time back in college. Gives one perspective, puts hair on your chest...etc.

 

[futureapppsy2]

There is no reason anything like that should keep you out of a program, much less getting licensed, unless it happened yesterday or something.

I actually agree--something like a noise violation as no bearing on one's ability as a clinician. For violent crime, sex offenses, fraud, or serious or repeated substance-related offenses, you could make that argument, but something like a singular MIP or noise violation shouldn't be a blackmark for life, IMO, especially if there's no pattern of behavior.

 

[LucidMind]

I actually agree--something like a noise violation as no bearing on one's ability as a clinician. For violent crime, sex offenses, fraud, or serious or repeated substance-related offenses, you could make that argument, but something like a singular MIP or noise violation shouldn't be a blackmark for life, IMO, especially if there's no pattern of behavior.

I agree in theory..I think it shouldnt matter...but the reality of it is that life isn't fair. Why would you take one qualified applicant with black mark on his/her record when there are 500 equally qualified applicants with no black marks?

It really sucks, but good programs are sooo competitive, they just don't have room to ignore things like that

 

[PHD12]

I actually agree--something like a noise violation as no bearing on one's ability as a clinician. For violent crime, sex offenses, fraud, or serious or repeated substance-related offenses, you could make that argument, but something like a singular MIP or noise violation shouldn't be a blackmark for life, IMO, especially if there's no pattern of behavior.

Do people really get misdemeanors for noise violations? I would have been arrested multiple times as a teenager and so would all my friends if this was really the case. I don't even think you can get a misdemeanor for a DUI? Misdemeanors span a huge range of offenses, including shop lifting, theft, violent crime and many drug offenses so we really don't know what he means by "minor."

 

[phillydave]

I'd happily take a student who's spent a couple hours in the drunk tank one time back in college. Gives one perspective, puts hair on your chest...etc.

It would be neat if most institutions thought that way, doesn't seem realistic given the risk an institution takes in putting their stamp on clinicians they send into the field. A noise violation? Yeah I agree, that would be a pretty silly reason to reject an application. I am really curious as to what the misdemeanor actually was.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

Yeah, impossible to project about the adcom's decision about the conviction, BUT....a misdemeanor *conviction* could be so many things, including a plea bargain for a first-time felony, for heaven's sake! I seriously doubt it was a conviction if it was something superfluous like a college kid making noise at a party.

Plus, what about licensing? Can one even get a license as a psychologist with a misdemeanor conviction?

 

[phillydave]

Plus, what about licensing? Can one even get a license as a psychologist with a misdemeanor conviction?

It probably depends on the state, but I believe it may even be possible to obtain a license with a felony, depending on probably a thousand factors.

 

[MBellows]

Yeah, impossible to project about the adcom's decision about the conviction, BUT....a misdemeanor *conviction* could be so many things, including a plea bargain for a first-time felony, for heaven's sake! I seriously doubt it was a conviction if it was something superfluous like a college kid making noise at a party.

Plus, what about licensing? Can one even get a license as a psychologist with a misdemeanor conviction?

"In some jurisdictions, those who are convicted of a misdemeanor are known as misdemeanants (as contrasted with those convicted of a felony who are known as felons). Depending on the jurisdiction, examples of misdemeanors may include: petty theft, prostitution, public intoxication, simple assault, disorderly conduct, trespass, vandalism, reckless driving, possession of marijuana and in some jurisdictions first-time possession of certain other drugs, and other similar crimes." - Wikipedia

I should certainly hope that misdemeanants aren't barred from being psychologists. I fail to see how most of those, especially in adolescence, would be seriously limit someone's ability to do something completely irrelevant to the action in question. If it did, that may speak to whether the profession actually believes that people can change.

 

[phillydave]

I should certainly hope that misdemeanants aren't barred from being psychologists. I fail to see how most of those, especially in adolescence, would be seriously limit someone's ability to do something completely irrelevant to the action in question. If it did, that may speak to whether the profession actually believes that people can change.

I agree with you, I think most of us do. I *think* most of us are trying to put ourselves in the shoes of the 17 schools that rejected him to make sense of why he didn't even get an invite. Btw, OP is 27 years old, he was 22 when charged with the misdemeanor.

 

[MBellows]

I agree with you, I think most of us do. I *think* most of us are trying to put ourselves in the shoes of the 17 schools that rejected him to make sense of why he didn't even get an invite. Btw, OP is 27 years old, he was 22 when charged with the misdemeanor.

I consider 22 to generally be towards the end of adolescence. Particularly in males, I don't think its uncommon to see brain development go on past that point and (emotional) maturity start to take over.

 

[erg923]

Plus, what about licensing? Can one even get a license as a psychologist with a misdemeanor conviction?

No offense, but do you live in Candyland?

I wasn't always a alter boy. Some of my (minor) record started when I was a altar boy...

 

[erg923]

Any program that has any missions or sense of social justice, restorative justice, or just human empathy, would be not exclude an applicant based on such nonsense. If they do. Dumb decision.

 

[Sanman]

I think you guys are focusing on the misdemeanor bit too much. If it were me on the committee, the issue would be a lack of research or clinical experience in the field directly. Despite having stated an interest, having no experience in said area is not going to cut it most times. I think he needs more experience in clinical psychology or at least with some clinical population.

 

[phillydave]

I consider 22 to generally be towards the end of adolescence. Particularly in males, I don't think its uncommon to see brain development go on past that point and (emotional) maturity start to take over.

Yep, I agree. And you're right, pre-frontal cortex (executive functioning, decision making,etc) isn't finished developing till age 25. My only thought is that adcoms would probably see 22 as different than 16.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

No offense, but do you live in Candyland?

I wasn't always a alter boy. Some of my (minor) record started when I was a altar boy...

I was asking a genuine question (i.e., not disguising a statement as a question). Having a question does not define Candyland. Every single job and license application I've filled out (yes, I've been around the block in multiple professions) asks for criminal convictions, takes fingerprints, does background checks--why collect this data if it doesn't matter?

That aside, I'm one of the ones here who tends to think that the lack of good research productivity and experience, in the interest area, is actually more to blame in this situation.

 

[Member1928]

Any program that has any missions or sense of social justice, restorative justice, or just human empathy, would be not exclude an applicant based on such nonsense. If they do. Dumb decision.

I completely agree. I've actually known a person who was admitted to a clinical PHD program at a well-respected clinical science program with a felony conviction. Adversity can be overcome y'all.

I've also watched the quality of applicants for graduate programs increase over the past five years or so. I don't think I could get admitted to a program with the application/qualifications I had when I applied back in the day. It seems to be the norm now for many/most successful applicants to have a publication or two on their CVs, in addition to conference presentations, and it sounds to me like this individual needs more research experience and perhaps more guidance on how to really tailor his application to each program/lab. The fact that the poster mentions being geographically restricted makes me worry that some of the places he applied were not great fits given his interests and past experiences.

Just my thoughts...

 

[Mellitus]

I completely agree. I've actually known a person who was admitted to a clinical PHD program at a well-respected clinical science program with a felony conviction. Adversity can be overcome y'all.

I've also watched the quality of applicants for graduate programs increase over the past five years or so. I don't think I could get admitted to a program with the application/qualifications I had when I applied back in the day. It seems to be the norm now for many/most successful applicants to have a publication or two on their CVs, in addition to conference presentations, and it sounds to me like this individual needs more research experience and perhaps more guidance on how to really tailor his application to each program/lab. The fact that the poster mentions being geographically restricted makes me worry that some of the places he applied were not great fits given his interests and past experiences.

Just my thoughts...

No no, I was NOT limited by geography at all which is one reason I was able to apply to so many schools. I thought my letters were really good, and my professors thought so too, the only thing I didn't do which I noticed some people did on here when they posted or talked about their statements, was mention my own ideas for studies to carry out. Which honestly I feel unable to do with my level of knowledge which may suggest that I need to do a master's first. I did mention specific studies of theirs that I would be interested in continuing, that sort of thing.

I think you guys are focusing on the misdemeanor bit too much. If it were me on the committee, the issue would be a lack of research or clinical experience in the field directly. Despite having stated an interest, having no experience in said area is not going to cut it most times. I think he needs more experience in clinical psychology or at least with some clinical population.

I hope you're right. I thought my lack of clinical research experience along with not being a psych major was hurting me the most. I'm just very surprised I got rejected to those 2 master's programs also. The two I was rejected from were in my state which would have made potential loan amounts much smaller. The other two seem much easier to get into but also a lot more expensive (partially due to being out of state) and maybe not worth it...

 

[Doctor Eliza]

I would talk to your profs that wrote your letters and try to make sense of what went wrong. That is, assuming the profs who wrote your letters were doctoral level psychology professors. By the way, if they weren't, that could have hurt you a fair amount too.

I also agree with you that not putting your ideas out there hurt you, but probably if it were the single factor, you would have gotten an interview or two, at least at an MA program.

If I were in your shoes, I might also contact the MA programs and ask if you can talk to someone about strengthening your application in order to get a sense of what happened. The doctoral programs would be an option too, but I suspect that they are busier and less likely to want to invest their time in you since they didn't even offer interviews.

Good luck,
Dr. E

 

[LisaLisa86]

I'd have someone who is blatantly honest review all your application materials and give you feedback, and talk to professors about their LORs. Maybe you came across like an a-hole in your pstatement. Maybe a professor threw you under the bus.

That being said, if you don't have any posters or publications on your CV, and have never done any sort of research project on your own terms (ex. a senior thesis or a small project start-to-finish), I'd say that's more likely the reason than the misdemeanor.

 

[bpsydme]

I would have to agree with the responses suggesting it was your lack of (relevant) research experience that may have hurt your application. Also, given that the misdemeanor occurred in 2008 and didn't hurt your undergrad app, are you in your last year of undergrad or just finished? If so, this is also another relevant point. Even though you have 2 years of research experience they may have been at an undergraduate level Where all you did was to help on projects and data entry. In my experience this is not enough for PhD program, most people either have a senior thesis or their own project or posters and papers. Many of the people I interviewed were full time research assistants. Also the fact that you were not able to formulate your own ideas in your statement of purpose shows that your research experience was very limited.

For the masters programs, I can't say much since I have no experience in them.

 

[PHD12]

I was asking a genuine question (i.e., not disguising a statement as a question). Having a question does not define Candyland. Every single job and license application I've filled out (yes, I've been around the block in multiple professions) asks for criminal convictions, takes fingerprints, does background checks--why collect this data if it doesn't matter?

Great point. I checked the psychology licensure application in my state and they require a detailed background check and disclosure of any convictions, including misdemeanors and DUI's. Apparently, they can deny licensure at their discretion based on a criminal record. I looked at other professions and it seems like some folks were denied licensure for misdemeanor offenses.

Mellitus, I would send an email to the board of psychology in a state where you want to practice and ask about your situation. You don't want to find this out AFTER 6 years of graduate school.

 

[deleted176373]

Thanks, I will probably do that.
I have a misdemeanor from 2008 (very minor, had to pay an 85 dollar fine) which I explained in the applications that asked about it. it didn't hurt me getting into my undergrad so i don't think it would be that big of a deal now, especially since more time has passed. And actually for a few of the schools once they saw i had a criminal conviction i had to submit documentation to campus security before my app was forwarded back to the department for review. For every school that did this my app was reapproved and sent back to the department, so it looks like it wasn't an issue. Can't think of anything unusual on my transcripts, never made below a C, never on academic probation or anything like that

1. Get the criminal record expunged if possible.

2. Look carefully at your SOP, that is probably where the problem is. If you can't get rid of your criminal record, pivot from there and outline the path you are on and where you want it to take you in the future. I suspect your SOP sucked and that's why you did not get any interviews.

Mark

PS - Full disclosure, my initial SOP sucked and I had nearly 0 interest in my application.

 

[EmotRegulation]

First, your writing score of 4.0 might have hurt you a bit, although your other scores are excellent. In my program, to be eligible for fellowship funding, we typically don't go below a 4.5.

Also, you may wish to look at your SOP and how you applied what you have done so far to research you want to conduct. Working in a cognitive lab isn't an immediate rule-out, but if you can't connect the type of work you've done (constructs you're interested in, methods you've used) and lay out the kind of work you want to do, your SOP might not have gone over well. Also, if you were too scattered in picking out faculty members (e.g. "I'd love to study anxiety disorders in kids, or SMI!") that might be a problem.

If you're not geographically restricted, then finding an RA job in a psychiatry department (look at hospitals, especially teaching hospitals associated with a university and VAs) might be a great option to bolster your application before reapplying.

 

[fallen625]

First, your writing score of 4.0 might have hurt you a bit, although your other scores are excellent. In my program, to be eligible for fellowship funding, we typically don't go below a 4.5.

Also, you may wish to look at your SOP and how you applied what you have done so far to research you want to conduct. Working in a cognitive lab isn't an immediate rule-out, but if you can't connect the type of work you've done (constructs you're interested in, methods you've used) and lay out the kind of work you want to do, your SOP might not have gone over well. Also, if you were too scattered in picking out faculty members (e.g. "I'd love to study anxiety disorders in kids, or SMI!") that might be a problem.

If you're not geographically restricted, then finding an RA job in a psychiatry department (look at hospitals, especially teaching hospitals associated with a university and VAs) might be a great option to bolster your application before reapplying.

I agree. I remember reading somewhere that it is particularly important for your AWA score to be at least a 4.5 (if not a 5.0) if you have no publications, as it is a way for faculty to judge your writing.

 

[psychRA]

Based on the info you've given us, it doesn't make sense that you didn't at least get an interview somewhere. The bad news is (at least in my view) there is some kind of flaw or red flag in your application that has been serious enough to keep you from getting those interviews. I know that it's a crazy competitive process, and that after you take a lot of other factors into consideration, sheer luck does play a role to some extent. However, to me, the fact that this happened at 17 separate programs tells me that there's something else at work here.

The good news is that if you can identify what went wrong with this last cycle, you can work on fixing it for the next one. I would recommend getting feedback on every part of your application, from as many sources as possible. Do you have access to professors or other psychologists who could read over your CV, personal statement, etc? Can someone take a good look at your materials and give you honest feedback about them? It may be that there's something you can easily fix (rewrite your statements, correct glaring errors), or something that you can fix with effort (get volunteer research experience - there is just no way around this if your advisors feel that lack of research was a problem). I think you also need to contact every program you applied to, just to see if they'd be willing to give you any insight. If you contact all of them, you increase the odds that at least a couple will actually respond.

I'm a little confused about the misdemeanor. Was this a traffic offense? On one hand, anything that required only an $85 fine seems very minor, and on the other hand, I haven't heard of anyone having to submit documentation to campus security before, which sounds a little more serious. I do think it's possible that for some programs, a relatively recent conviction may have gotten your application tossed, but again, it doesn't seem sufficient to explain why you didn't get any interviews.

 

[Mellitus]

Great point. I checked the psychology licensure application in my state and they require a detailed background check and disclosure of any convictions, including misdemeanors and DUI's. Apparently, they can deny licensure at their discretion based on a criminal record. I looked at other professions and it seems like some folks were denied licensure for misdemeanor offenses.

Mellitus, I would send an email to the board of psychology in a state where you want to practice and ask about your situation. You don't want to find this out AFTER 6 years of graduate school.

I'll do that. Thanks

I'd have someone who is blatantly honest review all your application materials and give you feedback, and talk to professors about their LORs. Maybe you came across like an a-hole in your pstatement. Maybe a professor threw you under the bus.

That being said, if you don't have any posters or publications on your CV, and have never done any sort of research project on your own terms (ex. a senior thesis or a small project start-to-finish), I'd say that's more likely the reason than the misdemeanor.

Yeah I had my letter writers and a clinical psychology professor review everything and they all thought it was great "you'll get in somewhere!" etc. Guess one or some of them are not being honest. I'll contact the schools I applied to.

1. Get the criminal record expunged if possible.

2. Look carefully at your SOP, that is probably where the problem is. If you can't get rid of your criminal record, pivot from there and outline the path you are on and where you want it to take you in the future. I suspect your SOP sucked and that's why you did not get any interviews.

Mark

PS - Full disclosure, my initial SOP sucked and I had nearly 0 interest in my application.

Can't be expunged until 15 years has passed since I was 21 or older when it happened. And yes I did that in my statement made sure to indicate where I was in the past and the things I've been doing for working towards the future, where I see myself etc.

Based on the info you've given us, it doesn't make sense that you didn't at least get an interview somewhere. The bad news is (at least in my view) there is some kind of flaw or red flag in your application that has been serious enough to keep you from getting those interviews. I know that it's a crazy competitive process, and that after you take a lot of other factors into consideration, sheer luck does play a role to some extent. However, to me, the fact that this happened at 17 separate programs tells me that there's something else at work here.

The good news is that if you can identify what went wrong with this last cycle, you can work on fixing it for the next one. I would recommend getting feedback on every part of your application, from as many sources as possible. Do you have access to professors or other psychologists who could read over your CV, personal statement, etc? Can someone take a good look at your materials and give you honest feedback about them? It may be that there's something you can easily fix (rewrite your statements, correct glaring errors), or something that you can fix with effort (get volunteer research experience - there is just no way around this if your advisors feel that lack of research was a problem). I think you also need to contact every program you applied to, just to see if they'd be willing to give you any insight. If you contact all of them, you increase the odds that at least a couple will actually respond.

I'm a little confused about the misdemeanor. Was this a traffic offense? On one hand, anything that required only an $85 fine seems very minor, and on the other hand, I haven't heard of anyone having to submit documentation to campus security before, which sounds a little more serious. I do think it's possible that for some programs, a relatively recent conviction may have gotten your application tossed, but again, it doesn't seem sufficient to explain why you didn't get any interviews.

Well I thought my three letter writers could give me honest feedback, and I also asked one of my clinical psychology professors who wasn't writing a letter, but some of them, intentionally or not, gave me some misinformation. I know it is profitable for schools to have as many applicants as possible. Hopefully it was just a lack of better research experience, although that doesn't explain not getting into master's programs.

As far as the misdemeanor on my applications it was just standard procedure to have to explain it to campus security. On the application you have to check yes or no to "have you ever been committed of a crime." I checked yes. For some of the schools they just gave you a little box to explain it. For others I had to attach a document explaining. For one school after I submitted they said since I checked yes I would have to submit documentation and pay for a background check (another 20 dollars wasted. It makes me literally sick when I think about how much money I wasted this year applying) before my application went back into review. I submitted documentation and then they told me everything was in order and it went back into review.

 

[Mellitus]

First, your writing score of 4.0 might have hurt you a bit, although your other scores are excellent. In my program, to be eligible for fellowship funding, we typically don't go below a 4.5.

Also, you may wish to look at your SOP and how you applied what you have done so far to research you want to conduct. Working in a cognitive lab isn't an immediate rule-out, but if you can't connect the type of work you've done (constructs you're interested in, methods you've used) and lay out the kind of work you want to do, your SOP might not have gone over well. Also, if you were too scattered in picking out faculty members (e.g. "I'd love to study anxiety disorders in kids, or SMI!") that might be a problem.

If you're not geographically restricted, then finding an RA job in a psychiatry department (look at hospitals, especially teaching hospitals associated with a university and VAs) might be a great option to bolster your application before reapplying.

I applied to work with professors all in the same field / subfield, so I didn't come across as having interests that are too varied. Well, I am in a lease here until July. Seems like most RA positions are for 2 years. Which would make me pretty much 30 when I start a PHD program, if I am lucky enough to not still have to do a master's after that. I'd basically be starting my career when I'm 40. No thanks.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

I mentioned this before, but perhaps it got lost in my other ramblings.

You mentioned your letter writers and a clinical psychology professor. Does this mean your letter writers were NOT clinical psychology professors? That may have caused you trouble too. If they were stats professors or developmental psych profs, that would be okay, but a history professor won't do much for you. Your boss at a clinical job placement wouldn't be so good for a PhD program either. Master's level folks (e.g., lab coordinators, instructors, TA's) are also not good options.

Just trying to leave no stone unturned. Sorry you have had this setback. I hope things take a better turn soon.

Best,
Dr. E

 

[fallen625]

I applied to work with professors all in the same field / subfield, so I didn't come across as having interests that are too varied. Well, I am in a lease here until July. Seems like most RA positions are for 2 years. Which would make me pretty much 30 when I start a PHD program, if I am lucky enough to not still have to do a master's after that. I'd basically be starting my career when I'm 40. No thanks.

I have had issues with 2 year commitment positions as well, but was ultimately able to find one that only had a one year commitment. I know someone else who negotiated reducing the 2 year commitment to 1 year.

But.. in case you can't, I don't see how accepting a 2 year commitment position and then leaving early could hurt you too much? The only negative is not being able to ask for a recommendation letter. Obviously it is not the best ethical option, but I worked in a corporation that required 2 year commitments from its analysts, and over half of our class left early (and they also laid someone off before the 2 years was over!) Maybe someone else has some input on how strict these two years commitments are.

 

[Mellitus]

I have had issues with 2 year commitment positions as well, but was ultimately able to find one that only had a one year commitment. I know someone else who negotiated reducing the 2 year commitment to 1 year.

But.. in case you can't, I don't see how accepting a 2 year commitment position and then leaving early could hurt you too much? The only negative is not being able to ask for a recommendation letter. Obviously it is not the best ethical option, but I worked in a corporation that required 2 year commitments from its analysts, and over half of our class left early (and they also laid someone off before the 2 years was over!) Maybe someone else has some input on how strict these two years commitments are.

Interesting and good ideas, thank you.

I mentioned this before, but perhaps it got lost in my other ramblings.

You mentioned your letter writers and a clinical psychology professor. Does this mean your letter writers were NOT clinical psychology professors? That may have caused you trouble too. If they were stats professors or developmental psych profs, that would be okay, but a history professor won't do much for you. Your boss at a clinical job placement wouldn't be so good for a PhD program either. Master's level folks (e.g., lab coordinators, instructors, TA's) are also not good options.

Just trying to leave no stone unturned. Sorry you have had this setback. I hope things take a better turn soon.

Best,
Dr. E

Thank you.
Two of my writers were psychology professors (one of them the PI at the lab I worked in) but not clinical professors and another was in a different field. I didn't get any clinical professors to write one because I had only taken 1 class at most with any of them. After thinking about it and talking to them and my other letter writers the consensus was it would be best to use a letter from someone who knew me better (professor in a different field) rather than a clinical professor I only took 1 class with. May have been a mistake. When I asked them (clinical psyc professors) if they thought it would be better for me to use them or someone who knew me better they both basically said it would be better to use the other person since all they could really say was how I did in their class compared to everyone else. Which may have also been a polite way for them to decline me, but I feel they genuinely felt it would be better to use the other professor

But yeah that could still be another negative on my app...

 

[sunshine008]

Hi!
This thread has prompted a question for a dear friend of mine. I know someone who is currently in a doctoral program. When he was 15- 14 years ago!- he was arrested for a misdemeanor offense. Being a minor, he took part in a program for young offenders, did community service and paid a fine, and the offense was wiped off his record- thus I believe the charges were dropped. He has answered "no" to every application which questioned "have you ever been convicted of any crime, etc etc", and it has never been a problem. I have been told-not sure how true this is-that you only have to report this in this case when applying to work as a police officer, FBI agent, etc etc. Now I am reading this and wondering if he will be able to be licensed- he furthermore wants to work at a VA. Will this hinder his chances at either being licensed or working at the VA, as it is technically the government?Anyone know? THANKS!