How to get into a top surgical residency.

[Bibliophilic]

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I would like input from current physicians, residents, PDs, etc on how to obtain a top General Surgery residency. My research on the net, and on the specific school websites are not particularly helpful.

I am pre-med, and new to the forums, so please take it easy. My thought is that if I start to prepare for the residency I want now, I have a greater chance of achieving it.

Before I get scolded for choosing a specialty before medical school, let me just say that I have researched, shadowed, and discussed the career at length and I know exactly what I want to do with my life. Also, I have my own personal reasons for wanting a top program as opposed to any program that does just as good of a job training me. It has nothing to do with money or prestige, so don't think it does. Can we please do this without trying to sway me from those decisions?


1. I am matriculating this fall into a fairly new US DO school. I realize this will make it much harder for me to get into a top residency, which is partly my reason for posting here.
2. What Step scores should I achieve? Obviously I can only do my best, but give me an idea of what top PDs are looking for?
3. EC's? Research? Volunteering? Missions? Clerkships? Give me any and everything you can think of that I may need! I refuse to do EC's I have no interest in, so I will have to pick and choose.
4. Specifics for top programs such as Harvard, John's Hopkins, Etc.

I'm a very hard worker and have a pretty good backstory, none of which is relevant ATM. I'm open to questions, but please be mature. I am not going to medical school to be a doctor, I am going to be a surgeon. I'd like to start preparing now, unlike I did freshman year of college for med school.

Thanks for the help in advance.

 

[LucidSplash]

I would like input from current physicians, residents, PDs, etc on how to obtain a top General Surgery residency. My research on the net, and on the specific school websites are not particularly helpful.

I am pre-med, and new to the forums, so please take it easy. My thought is that if I start to prepare for the residency I want now, I have a greater chance of achieving it.

Before I get scolded for choosing a specialty before medical school, let me just say that I have researched, shadowed, and discussed the career at length and I know exactly what I want to do with my life. Also, I have my own personal reasons for wanting a top program as opposed to any program that does just as good of a job training me. It has nothing to do with money or prestige, so don't think it does. Can we please do this without trying to sway me from those decisions?


1. I am matriculating this fall into a fairly new US DO school. I realize this will make it much harder for me to get into a top residency, which is partly my reason for posting here.
2. What Step scores should I achieve? Obviously I can only do my best, but give me an idea of what top PDs are looking for?
3. EC's? Research? Volunteering? Missions? Clerkships? Give me any and everything you can think of that I may need! I refuse to do EC's I have no interest in, so I will have to pick and choose.
4. Specifics for top programs such as Harvard, John's Hopkins, Etc.

I'm a very hard worker and have a pretty good backstory, none of which is relevant ATM. I'm open to questions, but please be mature. I am not going to medical school to be a doctor, I am going to be a surgeon. I'd like to start preparing now, unlike I did freshman year of college for med school.

Thanks for the help in advance.

You're going to have to clarify what your definition of a top program is. It means different things to different people. My definition was a program that would train me to be a general surgeon who would be able to comfortably and confidently operate independently from my first day as an attending. I wanted a program with graduated autonomy culminating in a true chief service. Yet I also wanted a program to position me well for a good fellowship if I chose that, though I don't need that to be a "big name" fellowship necessarily. Most of the 7-year programs ds not fit my definition.

So define your idea of a top program and let us know your career goals and perhaps you'll get some useful information.

 

[Bibliophilic]

You're going to have to clarify what your definition of a top program is. It means different things to different people. My definition was a program that would train me to be a general surgeon who would be able to comfortably and confidently operate independently from my first day as an attending. I wanted a program with graduated autonomy culminating in a true chief service. Yet I also wanted a program to position me well for a good fellowship if I chose that, though I don't need that to be a "big name" fellowship necessarily. Most of the 7-year programs ds not fit my definition.

So define your idea of a top program and let us know your career goals and perhaps you'll get some useful information.

Yes, I should have specified my definition of top programs. Again, I'm pre-med (or future med since I've been accepted?), so excuse me if there are gaps in knowledge concerning the process.

Just as you mentioned, I'd like to train at a program that has a great track record of producing competent general surgeons who are comfortable practicing independently upon graduating and becoming an attending.

I want to be a leader in my field and someone to whom others look for guidance.

As of now, I have no interest in a fellowship or subspecialty, but that can change, I'm sure. So a program that will position me to be more competitive for more training is a plus.

I'd like to work with as many different types of people as possible. Both patients and colleagues. Varying ages, backgrounds, and ethnicities. Also, as many different cases as possible, so I can gain as much experience as possible.

Things like compensation, prestige, and location are not important. Although, attending a program at Harvard has obvious benefits, I understand its not necessary for a top-notch education. That said, I'd like to attend a big name school simply for the obvious benefits. (Name recognition for employers? Connections?)

There was a list recently of top GenEral Surgery residency programs (subjective, I know), but I'd like to start there. I think it included:

1. John's Hopkins
2. Mayo
3. Harvard
4. Mass Gen

Also, I'd like to stay on the easy coast, but again, location is not important.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Moving to Pre-Osteo forum in accordance with the SDN Terms of Service; those who wish to respond can do so there.

 

[MedPR]

Don't go to a DO school for starters.

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[Bibliophilic]

I posted in the surgery forum to avoid premed statements like that.

 

[MedPR]

I posted in the surgery forum to avoid premed statements like that.

You're a premed asking about top surgery programs. Ironic, don't you think?

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[Bibliophilic]

You're a premed asking about top surgery programs. Ironic, don't you think?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

Because I want to best prepare myself for my ultimate goal? Why can't a DO be a General Surgery resident at a top program?

I fear I will not get any relevant advice now that I'm subject to ridicule by the premeds.

 

[MedPR]

Because I want to best prepare myself for my ultimate goal? Why can't a DO be a General Surgery resident at a top program?

I fear I will not get any relevant advice now that I'm subject to ridicule by the premeds.

Don't ask me. Ask the PDs at top programs.

If you use the search function, you'll see that these threads all go the same way.

1. Get into med school.
2. Get acclimated to your curriculum.
3. Do well in pre-clinicals to help prepare for Step 1 and consider research if you are wanting to pursue something competitive or research oriented.
4. Do well on Step 1
5. Figure out what your options are now
6. Do well in relevant rotations

 

[Lys Ile Glu Leu]

I begin to understand... 😀

 

[Winged Scapula]

I posted in the surgery forum to avoid premed statements like that.

The specialty forums are for topics of interest to current residents and practicing physicians. While pre-med and med students are welcome to participate in discussions, it is SDN policy that questions from pre-meds are in the pre-med forums, questions from med students in the med student forums, and so on. There are plenty of residents and attending physicians who will read your query here.

But MedPR has a point: there are no current DO surgical residents or faculty at Mass Gen, Johns Hopkins or Mayo. That doesn't mean its impossible but frankly, it may be a little more difficult than being a hard worker, getting great USMLE scores or having a good backstory; you may not be able to overcome institutional or personal bias.

You should also understand that the "big names" that you recognize are not necessarily the big names in terms of providing you the best all-around surgical training experience. Certainly if you wish to become an academic leader in the field of surgery (which typically requires a fellowship), then a top tier academic program is a great career boost. However, big name academics doesn't always coincide with great teaching, experience doing a variety of cases, or job opportunities outside of academia. A recognizeable name or USNWR top medical school doesn't necessarily translate into great surgical training. So the surgical powerhouses are places you probably wouldn't think of: UTSW, UAB, Louisville, Vandy Emory, Wash U, Duke, Baylor and several community programs with great reputations as well.

The above is not to mean that MGH doesn't provide good or even great training, but it would not necessarily be highest ranked in terms of wide variety of training or preparing you for a wide variety of surgical practice options. You will find that the vast majority of residents at these programs do fellowships. If your goal is to be a good general surgeon then you may be better off at a program which is heavy in bread-and-butter cases rather than complex oncologic resections, for example.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I fear I will not get any relevant advice now that I'm subject to ridicule by the premeds.

Well, you've got the arrogance down pat already. That should help. 🙄

Seriously, insulting your peers is no way to get relevant advice.

 

[MedPR]

Also inb4 "medpr why u hating on DOs again?"

 

[Bibliophilic]

The specialty forums are for topics of interest to current residents and practicing physicians. While pre-med and med students are welcome to participate in discussions, it is SDN policy that questions from pre-meds are in the pre-med forums, questions from med students in the med student forums, and so on. There are plenty of residents and attending physicians who will read your query here.

But MedPR has a point: there are no current DO surgical residents or faculty at Mass Gen, Harvard, Johns Hopkins or Mayo. That doesn't mean its impossible but frankly, it may be a little more difficult than being a hard worker, getting great USMLE scores or having a good backstory; you may not be able to overcome institutional or personal bias.

You should also understand that the "big names" that you recognize are not necessarily the big names in terms of providing you the best all-around surgical training experience. Certainly if you wish to become an academic leader in the field of surgery (which typically requires a fellowship), then a top tier academic program is a great career boost. However, big name academics doesn't always coincide with great teaching, experience doing a variety of cases, or job opportunities outside of academia. A recognizeable name or USNWR top medical school doesn't necessarily translate into great surgical training. So the surgical powerhouses are places you probably wouldn't think of: UTSW, UAB, Louisville, Vandy Emory, Wash U, Duke, Baylor and several community programs with great reputations as well.

The above is not to mean that MGH doesn't provide good or even great training, but it would not necessarily be highest ranked in terms of wide variety of training or preparing you for a wide variety of surgical practice options.

Thank you.

I understand why the post was moved. I wanted to avoid those types of remarks, but I guess that's just part of the game.

Anyway, I mentioned before that I haven't started medical school yet, so I have limited knowledge. I mentioned those types of schools because I may be interested in academic medicine and I want to be as competitive as possible.

Also, I know I'm disadvantaged because of attending a DO school. I'm prepared to rise to the challenge. Hell, I may even bomb step one and wind up repeatedly applying for FP or something.

I just want a vague checklist of things to work for to be competitive at ANY residency program I apply to. A "cover all of my bases" type thing. A cookie-cutter application with my own special emphasis.

Harvard may be a pipe dream, but like I said, I have a specific reason for wanting it.

Thanks for your input!

 

[Bibliophilic]

Well, you've got the arrogance down pat already. That should help. 🙄

Seriously, insulting your peers is no way to get relevant advice.

Honestly, I didn't mean to be arrogant. It was in response to the "don't go DO" comment.

My apologies.

 

[Bibliophilic]

Also inb4 "medpr why u hating on DOs again?"

I apologize if I was insulting. In also a premed, so I have no place criticizing.

But really, do you hate DOs?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thank you.

I understand why the post was moved. I wanted to avoid those types of remarks, but I guess that's just part of the game.

Anyway, I mentioned before that I haven't started medical school yet, so I have limited knowledge. I mentioned those types of schools because I may be interested in academic medicine and I want to be as competitive as possible.

Also, I know I'm disadvantaged because of attending a DO school. I'm prepared to rise to the challenge. Hell, I may even bomb step one and wind up repeatedly applying for FP or something.

I just want a vague checklist of things to work for to be competitive at ANY residency program I apply to. A "cover all of my bases" type thing. A cookie-cutter application with my own special emphasis.

Harvard may be a pipe dream, but like I said, I have a specific reason for wanting it.

Thanks for your input!

The field of surgery is small and in the upper echelons, all applicants will have a great test scores, letters of recommendation, research et cetera. Therefore assuming you have all of the above, the best way I know to overcome institutional bias against osteopathic applicants, is with personal connections. That may take the form of spending every summer and school break doing research at one of those programs. Or it may be as easy as a chance meeting at a conference and really hitting it off with a faculty member. There simply isn't a script you can follow after you've laid the foundation of good USMLE scores, letters, etc. The rest is up to you to improvise.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Honestly, I didn't mean to be arrogant. It was in response to the "don't go DO" comment.

My apologies.

Well that was icing on the cake; if you reread your first post you may be able to see that the frequent instructions for us to not tell you what to do might come off as arrogant. At least it did to me and I'm used to dealing with arrogant surgeons LOL.

 

[cliquesh]

Honestly, I didn't mean to be arrogant. It was in response to the "don't go DO" comment.

My apologies.

All types of surgical specialities are DO unfriendly. 36 of the 4600 DOs that graduated last year matched Acgme surgery. You could go to a top PM&R, family medicine, anesthiology, pathology or pyschiatry residency coming from a DO school. Everything else is really unlikely, even Ob/gyn, internal medicine and peds.

 

[HalfListic]

The specialty forums are for topics of interest to current residents and practicing physicians. While pre-med and med students are welcome to participate in discussions, it is SDN policy that questions from pre-meds are in the pre-med forums, questions from med students in the med student forums, and so on. There are plenty of residents and attending physicians who will read your query here.

But MedPR has a point: there are no current DO surgical residents or faculty at Mass Gen, Harvard, Johns Hopkins or Mayo. That doesn't mean its impossible but frankly, it may be a little more difficult than being a hard worker, getting great USMLE scores or having a good backstory; you may not be able to overcome institutional or personal bias.

You should also understand that the "big names" that you recognize are not necessarily the big names in terms of providing you the best all-around surgical training experience. Certainly if you wish to become an academic leader in the field of surgery (which typically requires a fellowship), then a top tier academic program is a great career boost. However, big name academics doesn't always coincide with great teaching, experience doing a variety of cases, or job opportunities outside of academia. A recognizeable name or USNWR top medical school doesn't necessarily translate into great surgical training. So the surgical powerhouses are places you probably wouldn't think of: UTSW, UAB, Louisville, Vandy Emory, Wash U, Duke, Baylor and several community programs with great reputations as well.

The above is not to mean that MGH doesn't provide good or even great training, but it would not necessarily be highest ranked in terms of wide variety of training or preparing you for a wide variety of surgical practice options. You will find that the vast majority of residents at these programs do fellowships. If your goal is to be a good general surgeon then you may be better off at a program which is heavy in bread-and-butter cases rather than complex oncologic resections, for example.

The field of surgery is small and in the upper echelons, all applicants will have a great test scores, letters of recommendation, research et cetera. Therefore assuming you have all of the above, the best way I know to overcome institutional bias against osteopathic applicants, is with personal connections. That may take the form of spending every summer and school break doing research at one of those programs. Or it may be as easy as a chance meeting at a conference and really hitting it off with a faculty member. There simply isn't a script you can follow after you've laid the foundation of good USMLR scores, letters, etc. The rest is up to you to improvise.

Thanks for sharing this great info.👍

 

[Bibliophilic]

The field of surgery is small and in the upper echelons, all applicants will have a great test scores, letters of recommendation, research et cetera. Therefore assuming you have all of the above, the best way I know to overcome institutional bias against osteopathic applicants, is with personal connections. That may take the form of spending every summer and school break doing research at one of those programs. Or it may be as easy as a chance meeting at a conference and really hitting it off with a faculty member. There simply isn't a script you can follow after you've laid the foundation of good USMLR scores, letters, etc. The rest is up to you to improvise.

I see. It is a "who you know" thing?

Assuming I get all of the basics such as high step scores, LORs, and clerkship success, I will need to make an impression on some faculty at the institution. Doing research will be a great way to meet the faculty and make an impression, but I'm sure getting a research position in those labs will be difficult.

What step 1 score is competitive for those programs? I will try to get LORs from surgeons, and faculty at those institutions if I am lucky enough to get there. Possibly away rotations at those places, which will be hard to get as well. What type of research? How much? Are 1st author pubs necessary since many in that applicant pool will have it? What about volunteering or student org participation?

 

[Bibliophilic]

Well that was icing on the cake; if you reread your first post you may be able to see that the frequent instructions for us to not tell you what to do might come off as arrogant. At least it did to me and I'm used to dealing with arrogant surgeons LOL.

I see. I didn't intend it as arrogant. Just clear.

 

[HalfListic]

I see. It is a "who you know" thing?

Assuming I get all of the basics such as high step scores, LORs, and clerkship success, I will need to make an impression on some faculty at the institution. Doing research will be a great way to meet the faculty and make an impression, but I'm sure getting a research position in those labs will be difficult.

What step 1 score is competitive for those programs? I will try to get LORs from surgeons, and faculty at those institutions if I am lucky enough to get there. Possibly away rotations at those places, which will be hard to get as well. What type of research? How much? Are 1st author pubs necessary since many in that applicant pool will have it? What about volunteering or student org participation?

Life is a who you know thing, really.

But, to be honest, you are at a point right now where it seems that you know very little about the process. We have all been there, but I suggest using google and researching this topic a bit more on your own.

You are asking questions that are very easily researched, which is a bad habit to get into. Go read up and come back if you have a few specific questions.

Of course, you will do what you want, but learning to research topics to the point of being able to ask informed questions will be another great way to be seen as a mature residency candidate when the time comes. Just a thought

 

[Bacchus]

As much as it pains me so 🙂P) I have to agree with MedPR. If you want a surgical powerhouse program or a program that has a name to the regular people, you've already taken on the roll (that's a pun) of Sisyphus. Your rock has rolled down the mountain.

There is bias against DO applicants. You'll be able to get allopathic program interviews if you do well, but you're not going to get to most of the big names.

With that said, there is nothing wrong with community programs/smaller academic programs and many of them are respected in their regions. From personal experience, Christiana in DE, which does take DOs, is well respected in the area. LVH in Allentown, from what I understand does not take them or does so infrequently. It is a well respected community hospital for the region.

 

[MedPR]

I would like input from current physicians, residents, PDs, etc on how to obtain a top General Surgery residency. My research on the net, and on the specific school websites are not particularly helpful.

I am pre-med, and new to the forums, so please take it easy. My thought is that if I start to prepare for the residency I want now, I have a greater chance of achieving it.

Before I get scolded for choosing a specialty before medical school, let me just say that I have researched, shadowed, and discussed the career at length and I know exactly what I want to do with my life. Also, I have my own personal reasons for wanting a top program as opposed to any program that does just as good of a job training me. It has nothing to do with money or prestige, so don't think it does. Can we please do this without trying to sway me from those decisions?


1. I am matriculating this fall into a fairly new US DO school. I realize this will make it much harder for me to get into a top residency, which is partly my reason for posting here.
2. What Step scores should I achieve? Obviously I can only do my best, but give me an idea of what top PDs are looking for?
3. EC's? Research? Volunteering? Missions? Clerkships? Give me any and everything you can think of that I may need! I refuse to do EC's I have no interest in, so I will have to pick and choose.
4. Specifics for top programs such as Harvard, John's Hopkins, Etc.

I'm a very hard worker and have a pretty good backstory, none of which is relevant ATM. I'm open to questions, but please be mature. I am not going to medical school to be a doctor, I am going to be a surgeon. I'd like to start preparing now, unlike I did freshman year of college for med school.

Thanks for the help in advance.

I posted in the surgery forum to avoid premed statements like that.

I see. I didn't intend it as arrogant. Just clear.

I guess I'm confused. All the bolded statements indicate that you are familiar with SDN. Yet you expected different results because.. why?

 

[iPhysician]

life is a who you know thing, really.

But, to be honest, you are at a point right now where it seems that you know very little about the process. We have all been there, but i suggest using google and researching this topic a bit more on your own.

You are asking questions that are very easily researched, which is a bad habit to get into. Go read up and come back if you have a few specific questions.

Of course, you will do what you want, but learning to research topics to the point of being able to ask informed questions will be another great way to be seen as a mature residency candidate when the time comes. Just a thought

+1

 

[Bibliophilic]

Life is a who you know thing, really.

But, to be honest, you are at a point right now where it seems that you know very little about the process. We have all been there, but I suggest using google and researching this topic a bit more on your own.

You are asking questions that are very easily researched, which is a bad habit to get into. Go read up and come back if you have a few specific questions.

Of course, you will do what you want, but learning to research topics to the point of being able to ask informed questions will be another great way to be seen as a mature residency candidate when the time comes. Just a thought

I guess those last few questions can be easily researched. And yes, I know very little about the process.

 

[Bibliophilic]

I guess I'm confused. All the bolded statements indicate that you are familiar with SDN. Yet you expected different results because.. why?

Hopeful premed with big dreams just trying to find my way. 🙂

 

[DrEnderW]

The above posters are correct. For all practical purposes, there are no DO surgeons in what you are considering top programs - Hopkins, MGH, etc. While this doesn't necessarily mean its impossible, statisticaly there is essentially a zero percent chance of it occuring.

I am someone likely going to a DO program and am 100% committed to surgery as well. You can go to a program and get excellent training and become an excellent surgeon -- it just won't be at a big name academic center. Regardless of what you want to believe, there is bias and these things do not routinely happen.

 

[MedPR]

If it makes you feel any better your chances at a top surg program would be pretty abysmal even as a US MD student.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Don't go to a DO school for starters.

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There was a list recently of top GenEral Surgery residency programs (subjective, I know), but I'd like to start there. I think it included:

1. John's Hopkins
2. Mayo
3. Harvard
4. Mass Gen

Also, I'd like to stay on the easy coast, but again, location is not important.



As much as it hurts me to agree to this post, I definitely have to agree. YOU CANNOT go into DO school thinking that you will be the ONE DO student who gets into the above listed programs who are MD and likely will not take a DO student. If you have the desire to go to one off these, give yourself better odds, go to an allopathic medical school, get 99% on the board exams, rotate there, make a good impression, and F***ing CROSS YOUR FINGERS that you are THAT ONE who gets in there even as an MD.

Now, if you really want to be a general surgeon, you can be. It may not be in the residency that you currently envision. The quality of your surgeon skills really comes down to the individual, how hard you work, and how good your compassion is for your patients.

If anybody knows, I DO. I went into medical school knowing I wanted general surgery. I applied to MD programs only due to location rather than prestige. I DID NOT GET INTO ANY PROGRAM. I ended up scrambling into Family Practice where I sit today. THAT IS OK and I love what I do with the versatility it provides me. But take it from someone who had the same pre-med dilusions of grandeur that I would be THE ONE who made it when no one else has - it just isn't realistic.

 

[maxheadroom]

1. Harvard has three associated programs -- MGH is one of them.

2. If your "backstory" is so awesome, why couldn't it get you into your state's MD school? Believe me, MGH/Mayo/Hopkins General Surgery programs are much more competitive than your in-state medical school.

3. I'm an academic surgeon. The caliber of students that we see is tremendous. We just had our rank meeting and we had excellent students with tremendous USMLE scores, published research, and glowing letters from major academic chairs. Your ability to distinguish yourself in that pool coming from an osteopathic school is pretty small.

4. Best advice that most of us can give is, "Do whatever you need to do to clean up your application to get into an MD school," if those are your real goals.

 

[DrBowtie]

I'm guessing too if you do get an interview and show up to an interview at those places saying you want to do pure general surgery no fellowship, you'll stand out in a bad way.

Just check out the "where your graduates go pages"

 

[cabinbuilder]

3. I'm an academic surgeon. The caliber of students that we see is tremendous. We just had our rank meeting and we had excellent students with tremendous USMLE scores, published research, and glowing letters from major academic chairs. Your ability to distinguish yourself in that pool coming from an osteopathic school is pretty small.

4. Best advice that most of us can give is, "Do whatever you need to do to clean up your application to get into an MD school," if those are your real goals.

BEST advice EVER from someone who is where you want to be.Forget the pre-meds, the medical students, the residents. Take it from an attending who it sitting in the seat you hope to be in some day.

 

[Bibliophilic]

Thanks everyone for your input. I have some major things to think about.

As much as I'd like to be "that one DO student", I know it's virtually impossible.

There are a couple of reasons I was not competitive enough for my state's MD school, and I subsequently chose a DO school because I didn't want to waste another year applying. I'm ok with being a DO and those letters are not so important to make me go through another app cycle.

Honestly, thank you for the advice. It has prompted me to consider things a little more in depth.

 

[Bibliophilic]

BEST advice EVER from someone who is where you want to be.Forget the pre-meds, the medical students, the residents. Take it from an attending who it sitting in the seat you hope to be in some day.

I concur.

1. Harvard has three associated programs -- MGH is one of them.

2. If your "backstory" is so awesome, why couldn't it get you into your state's MD school? Believe me, MGH/Mayo/Hopkins General Surgery programs are much more competitive than your in-state medical school.

3. I'm an academic surgeon. The caliber of students that we see is tremendous. We just had our rank meeting and we had excellent students with tremendous USMLE scores, published research, and glowing letters from major academic chairs. Your ability to distinguish yourself in that pool coming from an osteopathic school is pretty small.

4. Best advice that most of us can give is, "Do whatever you need to do to clean up your application to get into an MD school," if those are your real goals.

This is by far the most helpful post, even if it basically says I have no chance. Can't argue with someone who is there.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Thanks everyone for your input. I have some major things to think about.

As much as I'd like to be "that one DO student", I know it's virtually impossible.

There are a couple of reasons I was not competitive enough for my state's MD school, and I subsequently chose a DO school because I didn't want to waste another year applying. I'm ok with being a DO and those letters are not so important to make me go through another app cycle.

Honestly, thank you for the advice. It has prompted me to consider things a little more in depth.

Just remember there are LOTS of DO general surgeons, that's not the impossible goal. You can be a surgeon, you just won't be training at Hopkins.

 

[Bibliophilic]

Just remember there are LOTS of DO general surgeons, that's not the impossible goal. You can be a surgeon, you just won't be training at Hopkins.

But I want to! 🙂

Let's say this: If I spend the next 4 years trying to make myself competitive for Hopkins, I may not get in, but I will still get into a very well respected and great program. As long as I don't gauge my success on whether or not I get in there, I will be in good shape. 🙂

 

[survivordo]

Gotta agree with most of the above. As a DO in a general surgery program I can confirm there is still a biased in the surgical arena. Unless you know someone real special you're unlikely to get into those big names. Accept it for what it is. There are LOT's of programs that will give you the same level (and possibly better training) but you will not have the big name. Is this likely to change with 2015? Unlikely, but time will tell.

Survivor DO

 

[maxheadroom]

Dude, there's no shame in doing a Master's in Public Health/Physiology/Pharmacology to demonstrate your ability to do upper level coursework. Also gives you time to improve on the MCAT. Those would be good moves if you wanted to have a better shot at your state medical school.

MGH/Mayo/Hopkins are a reach for a kid from a mid-level state medical school, but are doable with huge Step 1 scores, research, and kick-ass audition rotations.

 

[Bibliophilic]

Dude, there's no shame in doing a Master's in Public Health/Physiology/Pharmacology to demonstrate your ability to do upper level coursework. Also gives you time to improve on the MCAT. Those would be good moves if you wanted to have a better shot at your state medical school.

MGH/Mayo/Hopkins are a reach for a kid from a mid-level state medical school, but are doable with huge Step 1 scores, research, and kick-ass audition rotations.

Long story, but I did a Master's with a 3.8 GPA. My MCAT is mostly what kept me from MD schools.

 

[cabinbuilder]

But I want to! 🙂

Let's say this: If I spend the next 4 years trying to make myself competitive for Hopkins, I may not get in, but I will still get into a very well respected and great program. As long as I don't gauge my success on whether or not I get in there, I will be in good shape. 🙂

Sure, and every kid in the ghetto wants to be a pro basketball player. How many of them actually get to do that? Want and reality are 2 different things. Medical school will be the HARDEST thing you have ever endured. Trying to get through and be that 0.5% is just not realisitic.

 

[Bibliophilic]

Sure, and every kid in the ghetto wants to be a pro basketball player. How many of them actually get to do that? Want and reality are 2 different things. Medical school will be the HARDEST thing you have ever endured. Trying to get through and be that 0.5% is just not realisitic.

I agree but someone has to be that one DO! 🙂

I'm just being a d*** now lol. I'm not so arrogant that I can't understand the hard evidence that is stacked against me.

 

[maxheadroom]

If you can't get your MCAT up into MD-school range, your chances of crushing Step 1 into the range that you need to distinguish yourself for upper-echelon surgical programs is questionable.

 

[cabinbuilder]

If you can't get your MCAT up into MD-school range, your chances of crushing Step 1 into the range that you need to distinguish yourself for upper-echelon surgical programs is questionable.

Absolutely👍

 

[Bibliophilic]

If you can't get your MCAT up into MD-school range, your chances of crushing Step 1 into the range that you need to distinguish yourself for upper-echelon surgical programs is questionable.

I agree but there is more to my MCAT score than I am willing to go into on here. I'm a non trad and I have an unbalanced score because of extenuating circumstances. I am sure I can do better on step 1, and I could probably crush the MCAT if I was to take it a second time. I just have no interest in waiting another cycle.

 

[HalfListic]

I agree but there is more to my MCAT score than I am willing to go into on here. I'm a non trad and I have an unbalanced score because of extenuating circumstances. I am sure I can do better on step 1, and I could probably crush the MCAT if I was to take it a second time. I just have no interest in waiting another cycle.

Can't really say that you are sure. Your score is your score is your score.


Having said that, MCAT is only one predictor of board scores and isn't always the best predictor.

 

[maxheadroom]

Fact is, past performance predicts future performance.

Premeds study their asses off to crush the MCAT and get into the best possible med schools.

Med students study their asses off to crush Step 1 and get into the best possible residencies.

While I don't know of any studies that have looked at the correlation between MCAT scores and Step 1 scores, I find it hard to believe that low-performers on the MCAT are consistently high-performers on Step 1. But I could be wrong.

 

[MedPR]

I agree but there is more to my MCAT score than I am willing to go into on here. I'm a non trad and I have an unbalanced score because of extenuating circumstances. I am sure I can do better on step 1, and I could probably crush the MCAT if I was to take it a second time. I just have no interest in waiting another cycle.

If you're not willing to sacrifice one more year to have a better chance at a career you're so sure about.. well, then idk what to tell you.

 

[WhovianDO]

If you're not willing to sacrifice one more year to have a better chance at a career you're so sure about.. well, then idk what to tell you.

Lol.