How To Improve The Application Process... A Letter

[LaserPrinter]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Dear Clinical Doctoral Programs:

"When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

We hereby submit our 1.) grievances of, 2.) approbations for, and/or 3.) ideas about how to improve your application process below. We realize that there are certain things that may perhaps remain out of your control, but we feel that it is important to listen and reflect in order to bring about improvement. It is our undying hope that in the near future the application process will be smooth for both of us.

Signed,
Your Applicants

 

[katinatree]

Dear Clinical Doctoral Programs:

We hereby submit our 1.) grievances of

Let me know when I'm rejected as soon as you know! Don't leave me hanging. If I'm not getting in anywhere I want to know so I can plan ahead.

Oh, you know who you are, you programs-which-haven't-rejected-anyone-whosoever!

 

[thelittleowl]

Great idea for a thread!

So, one of my friends is applying to law school through the LSAC where she only has to upload her transcripts, lsat scores, letters of rec, vita, etc and all of the schools she applies to can see them.

So instead of paying for transcripts and GRE scores to be sent to however many schools applicants apply to, get a system to where you can see them. Save the applicants money that they can spend on traveling to interviews etc. It is especially expensive if you are applying to several schools and do not get admitted anywhere in such a competitive field.

Oh, and don't keep us in the dark when you put us on waitlists. You should be required to tell us where we are on that list. This process is anxiety provoking by definition and anything to minimize that anxiety would be appreciated!

 

[Hopen]

So instead of paying for transcripts and GRE scores to be sent to however many schools applicants apply to, get a system to where you can see them. Save the applicants money that they can spend on traveling to interviews etc. It is especially expensive if you are applying to several schools and do not get admitted anywhere in such a competitive field.

Yes, great idea. All of the paperwork involved in sending separate transcripts and standardized test scores is both a hassle, and costly.

Additionally, if our POI or any other professor in the department is not interested in interviewing us, and we will not be invited for an interview, please update us on our (rejected) status rather than giving us blind optimism.

 

[ThirdLittleBird]

If the POI that is clearly listed on the application is not taking on a student for the upcoming year, please do not cash my $60 check, only to send me a letter to tell me this.

 

[somedude14]

POI at school X: Please don't invite me to an interview, say you're excited about my experience and background, and then decide you don't want to take any students because they were not what you were looking for...

 

[somedude14]

If the POI that is clearly listed on the application is not taking on a student for the upcoming year, please do not cash my $60 check, only to send me a letter to tell me this.

This is why you need to email the profs ahead of time and ask. This process is so expensive as it is, gotta make sure your apps will at least be looked at.

 

[AgapeBlue]

I am well aware that you receive hundreds of applications and supporting documents. If you happen to lose any portion of the aforementioned items, it's cool...mistakes happen. However, there is no need to send rude emails or to place blame on anyone else. Admit the mistake, I'll resend the items, and we'll call it a day.

The process is difficult as is without your attitude.

AB🙂

 

[busybusybusy]

Don't send me pointless emails just because you have my email address all of the sudden. It gets my hopes up that you are inviting me for an interview or accepting me! Frankly, unless I am going to be invited to interview and attend your school I don't care about the upcoming fundraisers or your bid to the NCAA tournament.

 

[UhOh]

Dear clinical doc programs,

Please stop having your application process be such a crap shoot.

Truly yours -

 

[bunderj]

Don't send me pointless emails just because you have my email address all of the sudden. It gets my hopes up that you are inviting me for an interview or accepting me! Frankly, unless I am going to be invited to interview and attend your school I don't care about the upcoming fundraisers or your bid to the NCAA tournament.

Haha, yeah..ST. JOHN'S!

 

[ThirdLittleBird]

This is why you need to email the profs ahead of time and ask. This process is so expensive as it is, gotta make sure your apps will at least be looked at.

Agreed, but I did, in October, and apparently funding was pulled after that.

 

[busybusybusy]

Agreed, but I did, in October, and apparently funding was pulled after that.

I had a similar problem. My POI at one school got promoted in January (after the app deadline) to an adminstrative position and then was no longer taking students...thanks for wasting my $50 😡

 

[PsychedTriGirl]

.

 

[Grad Psych]

Please explain how it is possible to misplace an online submission of a personal statement and letters of rec, but not misplace an online submission of payment in the amount of 50$.

 

[BubuB]

Please figure out what materials you need from applicants and try to maintain some kind of standardization. Don't say you require the psych GRE when you don't say require it t when you do. Figure out how you want us to report our GPA and standardize it across schools.
Also, don't invite people for interviews if you're going to take your RA as a student. I understand why professors would want to take their RA, but I don't want to waste my time and money interviewing for a spot that's clearly not available.

 

[busybusybusy]

Make better use of the technology that we have available to us. Instead of me flying around the country and spending a ton of money to learn in person everything I already figured out from the website, how about we do a Skype interview, this way you'll still get to see me and get the non-verbals that seem sooooooo important. It would save both us of time and me alot of money.

 

[jexa]

Agreed, but I did, in October, and apparently funding was pulled after that.

This happened to me hardcore. I was invited to INTERVIEW and bought my plane ticket and everything! Then my POI sent a regretful email that his funding had been pulled and that I should probably not come to interview weekend. He was obviously upset and embarrassed but STILL. 😡

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Make better use of the technology that we have available to us. Instead of me flying around the country and spending a ton of money to learn in person everything I already figured out from the website, how about we do a Skype interview, this way you'll still get to see me and get the non-verbals that seem sooooooo important. It would save both us of time and me alot of money.

I would personally say that, from both sides of the table (as an interviewer and interviewee), not nearly as much is learned from skype versus in-person contact. I understand the expense burden, as I just went through it myself on the internship interview gauntlet; however, I feel that my time and money during both the grad school and internship application processes were well-spent. Training sites are investing quite a bit into us (and vice-versa), and I'd be hesitant to have such significant decisions based solely on a video teleconference unless it were unavoidable.

 

[busybusybusy]

I would personally say that, from both sides of the table (as an interviewer and interviewee), not nearly as much is learned from skype versus in-person contact. I understand the expense burden, as I just went through it myself on the internship interview gauntlet; however, I feel that my time and money during both the grad school and internship application processes were well-spent. Training sites are investing quite a bit into us (and vice-versa), and I'd be hesitant to have such significant decisions based solely on a video teleconference unless it were unavoidable.

Generally I agree, but when you are faced with a large amount of interviews all over the country and some aren't on the top of your list, it wouldn't hurt to make Skype a viable option. I was lucky enough to receive a great offer early on and was able to cancel some of my upcoming interviews that I knew I wasn't interested in. However, not everybody is that lucky and even when you're not that interested in the school you'll attend the interview just in case it's your only option.

It's not that I felt traveling to these interviews was a waste of my time or money (actually, there was one), but that I really couldn't afford to do it all.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Generally I agree, but when you are faced with a large amount of interviews all over the country and some aren't on the top of your list, it wouldn't hurt to make Skype a viable option. I was lucky enough to receive a great offer early on and was able to cancel some of my upcoming interviews that I knew I wasn't interested in. However, not everybody is that lucky and even when you're not that interested in the school you'll attend the interview just in case it's your only option.

It's not that I felt traveling to these interviews was a waste of my time or money (actually, there was one), but that I really couldn't afford to do it all.

Understood, although think of it as good practice--the same process will occur during internship interviews, which you'll be even more inclined to attend. It's expensive to be sure, and definitely requires prioritizing if your finances are tight (which is the case for the vast majority of grad students).

I could see sites offering skype as an alternative, but were I to accept that option, I'd do so expecting that it would likely affect my chances of matching or receiving an offer. After all, sites know that students prioritize, and that those looking to interview via telephone or skype may be doing so because they've elected to reserve their travel funds for other programs.

 

[LaserPrinter]

I know one person who was accepted into his #1 program after interviewing via Skype.

 

[Space Owl]

This happened to me hardcore. I was invited to INTERVIEW and bought my plane ticket and everything! Then my POI sent a regretful email that his funding had been pulled and that I should probably not come to interview weekend. He was obviously upset and embarrassed but STILL. 😡

Similar story: got invited to interview, then, when I e-mailed to confirm a few days later which of the two days they were holding interviews on I was planning on attending, they said they had tried to call me earlier to let me know that my POI had just found out that she was pregnant and had decided, in the days since the invites had gone out, to take the next year off. As this program uses a strict mentor model, interviewing was, of course, pointless. I was none to happy about this, and on top of it, like you, I had already booked a $600 plane ticket. I pushed the issue and got my app fee back, (and possibly wound up not getting invited to interivew when I reapplied this time around because of it 😳), and was able to cancel the flight. How do you even attempt to justify charging 50+ bucks for someone applying to a position that no longer exists?!

As far as suggestions for improvement:

1). When waitlisting students, tell them the truth about their status (how the process works in terms of what would need to happen for them to actually get an offer for admission--i.e., you're the very next person in line for this POI, versus, X number of people ahead of you need to decline first, etc) and then keep students updated as this status changes. Please, do not waitlist me and then never fill me in on how things are evolving, especially if you now know you will not be making any other offers.

2). I have trouble believing it takes so long to determine who a POI wants. I can see if there are multiple interview days, or if other factors (like a budget being up in the air) may make things take longer, but barring these kind of situations, does it REALLY take a full month to choose between three people? What on Earth is being debated???

3). Do NOT, under penalty of death, assure me that I am an outstanding applicant and will have my choice of which program I ultimately attend. Unless you yourself are going to extend me an offer in the next breath, DO NOT let these words pass your lips.

4). A) Don't send me multiple rejection letters. One will suffice.
B) If it's already past the deadline, and, oh, say, August? Don't even bother with formalities. I deduced that I would not be attending your instituion all on my own.

 

[Space Owl]

Oh, and

5). Invite me to interview a resonable time before the interview date is scheduled to take place. One to two weeks isn't really sufficient. Having an alternate day would be great, too. My not being able to be in three locations on Feb 24th is not at all indicative of my respective ranking of your program--more like a function of who contacted me first.

 

[KayJay85]

3). Do NOT, under penalty of death, assure me that I am an outstanding applicant and will have my choice of which program I ultimately attend. Unless you yourself are going to extend me an offer in the next breath, DO NOT let these words pass your lips.

4). A) Don't send me multiple rejection letters. One will suffice.
B) If it's already past the deadline, and, oh, say, August? Don't even bother with formalities. I deduced that I would not be attending your instituion all on my own.

 

[voyeurofthemind]

In the end I have to laugh at the small absurdities of the whole process such as worrying for 3 straight months, checking student doctor forum, some of the characters you meet at interview day (although I will have to say the majority were all great people). Especially since when I got into undergrad I thought I had it made and was done applying to any type of program after.

 

[cara susanna]

It doesn't end with grad school apps, either. Wait until practicum placements, internship, post-docs, etc etc.

 

[PsyDLICSW]

Let me know when I'm rejected as soon as you know! Don't leave me hanging. If I'm not getting in anywhere I want to know so I can plan ahead.

Oh, you know who you are, you programs-which-haven't-rejected-anyone-whosoever!

I agree! Ohio State and Ohio U rejected me in May!!! Another program, IUP did not even reject me at all. I got no letter, nothing. Also, I think giving students feedback to improve their application as well as reaasons for rejection would be very helpful rather than a variation of "you don't fit"

 

[CharmedDiamond]

1). When waitlisting students, tell them the truth about their status (how the process works in terms of what would need to happen for them to actually get an offer for admission--i.e., you're the very next person in line for this POI, versus, X number of people ahead of you need to decline first, etc) and then keep students updated as this status changes. Please, do not waitlist me and then never fill me in on how things are evolving, especially if you now know you will not be making any other offers.

Amen to that!! Especially when someone has an offer in hand but is still waiting for YOU to respond!!

And when you say "We will notify people by the end of the week" please ACTUALLY DO SO!! I don't hear anything then I freak out!

 

[PsychAndMusic]

If you're going to reject me, do not send me an email with one sentence: "we can't offer you admission". I put in a lot of time, effort, and money into your application - I did so because I'm interested in your school. Some input (or at least some sympathy) would be much appreciated. It might be asking for a lot if you get 300+ applicants, but each one of us put hours on end into these applications so putting in 5 extra minutes of your time would be nice.

 

[Space Owl]

If you're going to reject me, do not send me an email with one sentence: "we can't offer you admission". I put in a lot of time, effort, and money into your application - I did so because I'm interested in your school. Some input (or at least some sympathy) would be much appreciated. It might be asking for a lot if you get 300+ applicants, but each one of us put hours on end into these applications so putting in 5 extra minutes of your time would be nice.

Addressing it to me by name, rather than the standard "Dear Applicant," would be appreciated, too (even though I'm sure it's just some computerized sort filter that does it anyway), but still, it's a nice touch.

And this may be waaaaay too much to ask...but it'd be really cool, if and when you do elect to go that extra mile, you guys could spell my name right. Or at least mostly right. It's not like you don't have it on my vitae, my transcripts, my personal statement, my unofficial GRE score packet, my official GRE score packet, my writing sample, my three LORs, and the additional copy of my transcripts you said you needed for some reason or another, as well as on the return address portion of the package all this fun stuff came in to begin with. Makes me lose just the slightest bit of faith in your decision making body if something as simple as getting my name right isn't quite within your collective grasp...y'know? 😛

 

[AgapeBlue]

Addressing it to me by name, rather than the standard "Dear Applicant," would be appreciated, too (even though I'm sure it's just some computerized sort filter that does it anyway), but still, it's a nice touch.

And this may be waaaaay too much to ask...but it'd be really cool, if and when you do elect to go that extra mile, you guys could spell my name right. Or at least mostly right. It's not like you don't have it on my vitae, my transcripts, my personal statement, my unofficial GRE score packet, my official GRE score packet, my writing sample, my three LORs, and the additional copy of my transcripts you said you needed for some reason or another, as well as on the return address portion of the package all this fun stuff came in to begin with. Makes me lose just the slightest bit of faith in your decision making body if something as simple as getting my name right isn't quite within your collective grasp...y'know? 😛

Yes! Considering the automatic rejection we'd receive if we misspelled either the school or the POI's name, it's only right they should at least attempt to spell our names correctly. Just a thought...🙄

 

[psychdocstudent]

3). Do NOT, under penalty of death, assure me that I am an outstanding applicant and will have my choice of which program I ultimately attend. Unless you yourself are going to extend me an offer in the next breath, DO NOT let these words pass your lips.

OMG OMG..everything so TRUE especially this one.
Don't say in the rejection email that we are sure you will have a bright future etc...don't say that glad you have so many interviews etc...every rejection hurts and don't assume someone magically will give us an offer when you are rejecting us without a second thought!

 

[psychdocstudent]

Amen to that!! Especially when someone has an offer in hand but is still waiting for YOU to respond!!

And when you say "We will notify people by the end of the week" please ACTUALLY DO SO!! I don't hear anything then I freak out!

So very...almost none of my schools kept their promises...why do they think that we should not freak out under these circumstances? Isn't it only abnormal to be so calm and not send them emails etc to ask.

 

[psychdocstudent]

To WUSTL: Next year if the year on the rejection letter is printed wrong, like 2011 printed as 2010, don't just cross it out and hand-write 2011. Send me a short email or snail mail and I will mail in a check of $5 for paper to save the humiliation to all applicants.

 

[AgapeBlue]

To WUSTL: Next year if the year on the rejection letter is printed wrong, like 2011 printed as 2010, don't just cross it out and hand-write 2011. Send me a short email or snail mail and I will mail in a check of $5 for paper to save the humiliation to all applicants.

That is wrong on sooooo many different levels.

 

[Eivuwan]

My biggest grievance is false hope. I have had professors who show a great deal of interest in me (multiple e-mail correspondences), phone calls, etc., but in the end I sometimes did not get an interview offer. If I did I am wait listed or rejected. I can't figure out what the problem is.

 

[psychgradhope]

My biggest grievance is false hope. I have had professors who show a great deal of interest in me (multiple e-mail correspondences), phone calls, etc., but in the end I sometimes did not get an interview offer. If I did I am wait listed or rejected. I can't figure out what the problem is.

Yes!!! Do not tell me in my interview that I'm a perfect fit for your program (which is what you just spent an hour telling everyone you were looking for during the info session), only to send me a rejection letter less than a week later. It's insulting, not to mention cruel.

 

[AgapeBlue]

So this is a little rant I want to get off of my chest...some of you may have had similar experiences, others may be clue-less and I envy you.

One of the first applications I completed in Nov '10 was acknowledged via email stating, "You're application is NOT complete. Transcripts from X University have not been received. Kindly notify us if you wish to withdraw your application."

The tone was pretty cold..but perhaps she's had a rough week and needs a day off.

I responded to the email letting them know I will re-order my transcripts from the delinquent school and get them there all quick-like. They responded, "NO! Do not send more copies, this will only delay the process! We are backlogged and the transcripts MAY have been received."

1 month passes and another email stating my transcripts from aforementioned university are still AWOL, but, "DO NOT resend them if they've already been ordered. We are backlogged so they may or may not have been received and additional copies will only delay the process."

Again, a pretty rude tone to the email..but it's email and she just may need a hug or some ice cream. Some people are just naturally grumpy. No worries.

I checked with my former school, and transcripts were indeed sent (and paid for), so I went along on my merry way assuming things were copacetic.

Yesterday, 3.5 months AFTER the deadline I receive another email,"Your transcripts from X University have not been received. Kindly let us know if you wish to withdraw your application so that we may better utilize our staff for other duties. Cohorts have already been chosen for this year, but we'll keep your application for the 2012 cycle."

Whaaa........?

I get that transcripts are occasionally lost. It's cool...we're human and mistakes happen. But the rude tone of the emails, well, 3rd time is a pattern lady.

I had already figured out that I would not be attending this program and have accepted another offer...but really?

There will be a response, and the Director of Graduate Admissions will be CC'd.

Oy.

So, to improve the application process I suggest not hiring people with a chronic case of the grumpies. It's a rough time all around and I don't need your attitude, I've enough of my own.

Rant over. Carry on 😎

 

[voyeurofthemind]

Thank you for your rant, I rather enjoyed it. 👍

 

[psyman]

Dear Clinical Doctoral Programs:

"When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

We hereby submit our 1.) grievances of, 2.) approbations for, and/or 3.) ideas about how to improve your application process below. We realize that there are certain things that may perhaps remain out of your control, but we feel that it is important to listen and reflect in order to bring about improvement. It is our undying hope that in the near future the application process will be smooth for both of us.

Signed,
Your Applicants

You think that's bad? Wait until internship apps.

 

[katinatree]

You think that's bad? Wait until internship apps.

Perhaps you'd like to start a thread addressing internship apps, then? Do not belittle another's pain.

 

[busybusybusy]

Perhaps you'd like to start a thread addressing internship apps, then? Do not belittle another's pain.

👍👍👍

 

[Eivuwan]

Perhaps you'd like to start a thread addressing internship apps, then? Do not belittle another's pain.

I agree.

 

[AgapeBlue]

Thank you for your rant, I rather enjoyed it. 👍

Glad to have brought some amusement to your day 😉

AB🙂

 

[psyman]

Perhaps you'd like to start a thread addressing internship apps, then? Do not belittle another's pain.

Read too much into my comment maybe? I wasn't attempting to belittle anyone's struggles. I was just saying that unfortunately, the process doesn't get anymore user friendly. A glance at the internship acceptance rates should solidify that point. Good luck to everyone. Just get through it go to the next hurdle.

 

[Jegg]

Dear Clinical Doctoral Programs:

"When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

We hereby submit our 1.) grievances of, 2.) approbations for, and/or 3.) ideas about how to improve your application process below. We realize that there are certain things that may perhaps remain out of your control, but we feel that it is important to listen and reflect in order to bring about improvement. It is our undying hope that in the near future the application process will be smooth for both of us.

Signed,
Your Applicants

The application process needs more cowbell...

 

[cara susanna]

Read too much into my comment maybe? I wasn't attempting to belittle anyone's struggles. I was just saying that unfortunately, the process doesn't get anymore user friendly. A glance at the internship acceptance rates should solidify that point. Good luck to everyone. Just get through it go to the next hurdle.

I'm having a rough time with the placement process, too. You want to talk about false hopes!

 

[StudentBsMs11]

Dear Clinical Doctoral Programs:


We hereby submit our 1.) grievances of, 2.) approbations for, and/or 3.) ideas about how to improve your application process below.

When evaluating interviewees, please evaluate us on the basis of factors influencing whether or not we will succeed and will be a good fit for your program. Please do not tell us that you will be using your 'clinical judgment' to determine whether or not you are our first choice, and make offers on the basis of whether or not you think we will accept rather than on the basis of qualifications. Some of us would be thrilled to attend a third-choice school - as you've said about applicants, a second- or third-choice may be excellent.

Also, if you could minimize the politics that goes into the process, that would be much appreciated as well. 👍

 

[lmapsych]

Please ACTUALLY get back to me when you say you will. I interviewed at a school in the beginning of February. They said they would take about 3 weeks to make their decisions. Still no word... and they're ignoring my emails and phone calls. If was rejected, tell me. If I was waitlisted, tell me. I don't find that very hard and it is very rude you're ignoring me! 😡