How to increase US clinical experience?

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suryamin

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Hi all ~
Does someone know ....... As an IMG, how to increase US clinical experience? (which makes me take advantage on matching)

And how to take more advantage on matching~?

Appreciate for your kind telling~ 😀
 
If you are already a graduate, obviously doing a rotation is out of the question. I find "observerships", which are touted as useful by many FMGs, as practically useless. Consider research projects in the US, especially those which allow you contact with patients (ie, if you're not practicing medicine you don't need malpractice insurance) or clinically oriented jobs in which you work with physicians closely.

Lots of threads on this topic; a search should help you find them.
 
Oh! Thanks leorl and Kimberli Cox!!
Your answers are always helpful for me !!
I'm considering those programs, and found there are words just like: clinical elective, fellowship, clerkship, visiting medical elective, externship... .. What's the difference between them ?
Also, which is more advantage for match? and how about Postdoc and summer reasearch program?
Thanks again for your reply!!
^___________^
 
A clinical elective is a 3-4 week placement in a hospital that isn't in your school's absolutely required curriculum. You usually Have to complete one, but what area you choose to do it in is your choice (i.e. say you didn't get a rotation in cardiology during the school year, but you really want to get some experience in this area, so you arrange to do your elective in cardiology). A visiting medical elective is an elective not completed at the teaching hospitals connected to your school - so anywhere besides your school. To my knowledge, some people call electives/rotations "clerkships."

There is no advantage for the match...

A fellowship is a further specialization program when you are a resident (i.e. after you've graduated and completed your intern year + a couple years of residency).

Summer research programs could be helpful if you want research experience, but it's not necessary. People say it can help to get publications, but there aren't that many publications coming out of summer research because of the short length of time in summer programs, unless there is a specific project which can be totally completed within about 8 weeks. A lot of summer research programs aren't for medical students per say, but undergraduates in science.

Postdoc is what you complete after you earn your PhD where you spend a good length of time doing specific projects and writing publications...
 
What's the difference between an internship, externship, and observership? Are these all different types of clerkships?

Also, I found something interesting on the website for AMA (American Medical Association). They define a graduate of a medical school outside the USA as an IMG (International Medical Graduate), not an FMG.
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/17.html

Anyway, what about the clerkship thingy? I read somewhere that one was preferred over another for applying to graduate residency programs, but I can't find the link. Anyone know about the differences and which is better?
 
FMG is a term used mainly by people who have American or Canadian citizenship, and went to a foriegn medical school. It is used to distinguish between international doctors and those who studied outside.
 
foreign graduates were once known as FMGs, but to be more politically correct, I think the formal term now is "international" medical graduate, hence IMGs. But you'll still see both used interchangeably. You'll see US students graduating from foreign schools as "USIMG." At least it's not alien medical graduates or something 🙂.
 
As far as I can tell, the pecking order would be clerkship < elective < externship . Perhaps someone could elucidate better. A lot of programs use clerkship and elective interchangeably, in that there's no difference. Some places define a clerkship as a very short period (about 2 weeks) in which to observe a field and learn more about the field.

An elective is as described above, where you receive school credit for doing a non-required field at either your own teaching hospital, or at another hospital. Usually around 4 weeks.

An externship is a summer program, about 8 weeks, with really indepth participation in the field, and possibly offering a small stipend as well. However, very few people get these and probably unless you have a lot of connections somewhere, few IMGs will get these.

An observership is sort of like an elective or "shadowing," but to my knowledge, it's on your own time and you don't receive school credit for doing these.
 
leorl said:
There is no advantage for the match...

Dear leorl,
I tend to disagree with u re this matter. I believe it is a big plus for an IMG to have completed an away elective(visiting elective) at a US hospital, as he will acquire US clinical experience, get in touch with US attendings and possibly get LORs from them.

All of this sets those people apart from the others in the applicant pool, and this is very advantageous for the match.

Mohamed
 
Perhaps I should have been clearer. In the first post, I meant that there is not much advantage between whether you complete an elective or a clerkship or an extership because in some places, they're all synonymous (mean the same thing). However, in a later post, I explained that some places do actually differentiate between the terms, and so that technically an externship would probably give more advantage in the eyes of residency directors than an elective or a clerkship, if an externship spot was found to be open to IMGs. None of this is meant to imply that US electives are useless. I think everyone wishing to end up in the US knows the value of gaining experience in the US prior to matching.
 
Isn't internship, at least in the US, considered the 1st year of residency training? And isn't internship in other countries, except the US, the 1 year period after graduation, but before residency training?

Is an IMG graduate, who doesn't have any US electives or other such US training, still eligible to do some clinical training in the US before applying for residency? If so, how? Internship, externship, or observership?
 
Oh, i see what you're saying. Yes, pretty universally, an internship is the year after your graduation. In the US, most programs also consider the intern year as the 1st year of residency but you still have the option to explore another field after your intern year (sometimes requiring you to do another intern year). This is before you become committed to an actual residency.

I think theoretically, an IMG with no US experience can still apply for the match and thus internship, if he/she completes the USMLE Step I and in some cases, Step 2 CK and CS as well. However, chances are much increased if you do complete US electives because residency directors will know of your experience, and they are ultimately the ones who decide to place you in their programs and allow you to begin internship (and beyond) there. In otherwords, the US electives/training should be completed before your internship, and thus before you graduate with your degree. As a matter of fact, most schools that I know of will not let you complete an elective if you have graduated from medical school. An externship is also something that should be persued before you graduate, if such an opportunity presents itself.

So a quick answer to your question is that an IMG who wants US experience should try to do it before he/she graduates, but an IMG graduate who has no experience can try to match for internship/residency all the same, but not having US experience may close some doors. Having said that, some are successful, but oftentimes these are people with significant experience in their home countries, who have already been interns/senior doctors in clinical practice, and they may be required to repeat internship or in fact, the whole residency.

I think you could do an observership after you graduate, but I agree with Kim that in terms of your academic career, observerships are pretty useless.
 
leorl said:
...
So a quick answer to your question is that an IMG who wants US experience should try to do it before he/she graduates, but an IMG graduate who has no experience can try to match for internship/residency all the same, but not having US experience may close some doors. Having said that, some are successful, but oftentimes these are people with significant experience in their home countries, who have already been interns/senior doctors in clinical practice, and they may be required to repeat internship or in fact, the whole residency.

I think you could do an observership after you graduate, but I agree with Kim that in terms of your academic career, observerships are pretty useless.


Becoming much clearer now! Thanks!

So is an IMG grad screwed if they don't have any US experience and want a competitive US residency? For example, for the IMG grad who graduates and has zero US experience and wants a super competitive residency position. Is it still possible for such a person to obtain some decent US experience after med school graduation?

I mean, can't an IMG grad (no US experience) just get an externship for like a year, which would make them much more favorable to program directors? Or are externships just worthless for bettering an application?
 
Really appreciate!! Leorl,
I did learn a lot from your answer!!

Ps. "Match" program is for residency right? So how to get "internship" chance?
Thanks for your kind reply~ ^_____^
 
I'm not really sure how to answer that, because the people I know of not only in real life but also on SDN who've been successful in getting US residency have all done US electives. Some didn't have that much experience, but they did do some. I don't personally know anyone who has not had US experience before getting residency, but I there probably are foreign docs who do get in - a lot of the UK/Irish docs will take the USMLE and come for fellowships, but that's a different story and is a further specialization than just residency. I wouldn't say necessarily that the IMG is screwed...but definitely hindering their chances and closing doors for themselves. It's hard enough for IMGs to get a very competitive residency without hindering themselves further.

I don't really think there's any chance, or maybe a just a slim chance of getting US experience post-graduation. You can't do electives, and I do not believe graduates can do externships, although you may have to research this further (look up different externship programs and see what their eligibility criteria are or email the administrator). I think externships are sort of like summer programs for US med students, but you'll have to explore this further. For an IMG graduate without prior electives, your US experience would essentially be internship and residency, should you be successful in matching. You would just have to play catch up to get used to the US system.

Suryamin, yes you "match" into a residency (including internship, so you're matching into the internship as well). You need your USMLE scores to do this. Alternatively, some programs may offer you a pre-match position but these are variable and may not be an option for IMGs in the future (they tried to get rid of it recently and it failed).

BlondeCookie said:
Becoming much clearer now! Thanks!

So is an IMG grad screwed if they don't have any US experience and want a competitive US residency? For example, for the IMG grad who graduates and has zero US experience and wants a super competitive residency position. Is it still possible for such a person to obtain some decent US experience after med school graduation?

I mean, can't an IMG grad (no US experience) just get an externship for like a year, which would make them much more favorable to program directors? Or are externships just worthless for bettering an application?
 
BlondeCookie said:
Becoming much clearer now! Thanks!

So is an IMG grad screwed if they don't have any US experience and want a competitive US residency? For example, for the IMG grad who graduates and has zero US experience and wants a super competitive residency position. Is it still possible for such a person to obtain some decent US experience after med school graduation?

I mean, can't an IMG grad (no US experience) just get an externship for like a year, which would make them much more favorable to program directors? Or are externships just worthless for bettering an application?

While not exactly screwed, a competitive residency is, in general, tougher for the IMG to get anyway, just on the basis of the fact that more US grads apply than there are positions available for these residencies. For an IMG to match into such a competitive residency, they generally have to be superstars. Not all will have US clinical experience, but it makes a major difference for the applicant without US connections (ie, your mentor worked with the PD at your desired program, etc.) or some other "in".

The reason these rotations are so useful is that they allow the US program directors/faculty to assess your clinical, social and basic science skills in the milieu in which you will be practicing. Letters from US faculty are held in some esteem (generally) because its assumed they know what it takes to succeed in medicine in the US. Being a good doctor here may not translate to being one in Zambia (for example) where the skill set may differ.

There is no harm in trying to match into a competitive US residency, only time and money lost if you don't get a position. If you don't match consider a Preliminary or other area of medicine to get your foot in the door as it were.
 
Have another Q here, how much % is GPA being considered in Match?
Quite really worry about it, cause I didn't do well in my school score....

And is Greencard necessary for matching for an IMG~~?

THanks very much!!! ^_________^
 
The GPA thing is quite hard to answer. In general, FMG scoring isn't the same as the system they use in the US (4.0 grading scale). If it is similar, then I'd think they'd count it more, and if they're familiar with the grading system your country uses (i.e. John Hopkins uses a very similar one to UK/Irish grading) then they'd probably use it more. However, because standards and curriculum are different, grades are not a means of standardization of FMGs. This is why the USMLE scores are so heavily counted on.

You won't necessarily need a green card, but you would need to sort yourself out with an H1B visa. Do a search in these forums for the H1B visa and that should give you more information.
 
Greatly appreciate, Leorl,
You really help me a lot!!!
Thanks very much!!~
 
I don't know if an observership is useful or not but it is a way an IMG can get an US LOR which most programs I had a look at require. If not a student anymore, there is no way to do an elective, right?
 
correct. an elective is for students. there aren't really any opportunites for graduates to gain US experiences in an elective-fashion. You'd just have to apply for residency. In my opinion, an observership is useless and I'm not quite sure if people do give LORs for observerships. Why do an observership when you can do an elective?
 
Most programs that require some kind of clinical experience in US doesn't accept observerships and research experience as 'clinical' experience.
So watch out for what is really asked of you.
 
I am not talking about "clinical experience" but about US letters. A letter for an observership is questionable but it fullfills the requirement of having at least one US LOR when without such a letter an application would be rejected right away. By the way, when US clinical experience is required it normally is a whole year anyways.
 
Hi all
Today I was searching the net locking for something that can help me about getting an elective and I was so lucky to find this forums and I found this topic very helpful (thanks to leorl , Kimberli Cox and every one else).
I'm a 4th year student in a 6 year system which means by the end of this year I'll have finished a one year of clinical work and I like to get the US experience during the next summer so please could some one help me and tell me what should I look for and whether I can get a clerkship or not because most of the universities I found (if not all) only accepts senior students at there universities.
Please if any body knows hospitals or universities provide that tell me
thanks
 
is a military residency a good option for IMG's who want to get into a competitive field? does any one have an info regarding this?
 
lab_rat said:
is a military residency a good option for IMG's who want to get into a competitive field? does any one have an info regarding this?

Perhaps it goes without saying, but you have to be in the military to do a military residency. Competitive residencies will still be competitive in the military (perhaps more so because the number of spots are severely restricted).

Check out the military medicine forum as I'm sure there will be members there who can help you.
 
HI ALL
I am new to this forum,jus joined SDN. I would really like to congratulate the people who started this forum.Thanks to people like leorl and Kimberli cox ,i think everyone is receiving tremendous amount of information.
🙂
 
Aw, thanks eagerlearner. And Kim's the one who answered all my questions when I was still applying, so double thanks to her ! (dude, now I feel old). Anyway Dado, it can be definitely a hard thing to do...connections definitely help. I believe you can try places like Mt. Sinai and Georgetown - that's where I know non-final years have done rotations before, but it wouldn't be a guaranteed thing. Just keep looking at all the websites of hospitals in the area you'd like to go to and try...make phone calls, etc. I myself can't help you because I've not done an elective myself, but came up against this problem when I was considering it.
 
Thank you very much leorl
Actually I don’t care about the area I would go anywhere in the US but I just want to find a place that accept non-final years.
I will try the places you told me about but is there any specific name for rotations for non-final year students? Cause that would make it easier to search.
Should I search for hospitals, universities, centers …… please tell me because I don’t know so much about these things in the US
Thank you again leorl and if anybody else knows other places please help
 
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