How to Match in Plastic Surgery

[HowDoIPickASpeciality?]

What does it take? There are a lot of really old threads on this topic, so I wanted to open up a new post. Here's what I've heard - research, connections, Step 1, etc. --- what teases apart a strong applicant? What can you do you make yourself competitive during each year of medical school MS 1, 2, 3, 4?

What qualities does a Plastic Surgeon have? What sets a plastic surgeon apart from other surgeons?

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[Slack3r]

You need the same thing you need for every other competitive specialty: good grades/AOA, competitive step scores, research, and letters from well known academic surgeons.

Focus on getting good grades and learning the material. Keep your eyes open for research opportunities.

 

[username456789]

1. Be attractive
2. Don't be unattractive

 

[Dr.Smexy]

1. Be attractive
2. Don't be unattractive

Essentially the biggest requirement...

 

[PL198]

1. Be attractive
2. Don't be unattractive

This is how I imagine derm and plastics would square off.

no touching of the hair or face and thats it

 

[tymont12]

The mean stats are pretty high, especially the '12.5' abstracts, presentations and publications.

Most people at my school who wish to match in plastics take a year off for research.

 

[qw098]

it's not what you know it's who you know

 

[atomi]

Based on my experience as an M3 doing an elective rotation that I didn't care about watching two away rotators:

1. Round on all your competitor's patients.
2. Read about all your competitor's patients.
3. Blurt out answers to all pimp questions asked of your competitor
4. Snipe all of the cases with chair and/or program director from your competitior
5. Directly pimp your competitor on rounds.

The away rotator that did all of these things matched at that program. Who knows what happened to competitor. Probably didn't even get a letter.

Some specialty you got there.

 

[Dr.Smexy]

Based on my experience as an M3 doing an elective rotation that I didn't care about watching two away rotators:

1. Round on all your competitor's patients.
2. Read about all your competitor's patients.
3. Blurt out answers to all pimp questions asked of your competitor
4. Snipe all of the cases with chair and/or program director from your competitior
5. Directly pimp your competitor on rounds.

The away rotator that did all of these things matched at that program. Who knows what happened to competitor. Probably didn't even get a letter.

Some specialty you got there.

Darwinism at its finest brother...if you can't be the Lion, you gotta be the prey.

 

[Merely]

Based on my experience as an M3 doing an elective rotation that I didn't care about watching two away rotators:

1. Round on all your competitor's patients.
2. Read about all your competitor's patients.
3. Blurt out answers to all pimp questions asked of your competitor
4. Snipe all of the cases with chair and/or program director from your competitior
5. Directly pimp your competitor on rounds.

The away rotator that did all of these things matched at that program. Who knows what happened to competitor. Probably didn't even get a letter.

Some specialty you got there.

R u serious or just joking

 

[PL198]

Darwinism at its finest brother...if you can't be the Lion, you gotta be the prey.

That's not Darwinism that's called being socially ******ed.

 

[Merely]

That's not Darwinism that's called being socially ******ed.

He matched didn't he...

 

[SpacemanSpifff]

He matched didn't he...

Or she.

 

[PL198]

He matched didn't he...

probably in spite of those things, not because of them. or if the program he matched at approves of those kind of antics then they deserve each other

 

[TwinsFan]

That sounds awful

 

[Flamen04]

I've only met one ugly plastic surgeon. I wouldn't trust an ugly person to know what beauty looks like

 

[HowDoIPickASpeciality?]

Anyone know of anyone who matched without a "stellar" Step 1 score, relatively speaking?

(Besides "looks) .... what qualities does a plastic surgeon have to have that other surgical specialists might not have?

 

[Shipping News]

Anyone know of anyone who matched without a "stellar" Step 1 score, relatively speaking?

If you have to ask this question, you're not cut out to match plastics

 

[Flamen04]

Anyone know of anyone who matched without a "stellar" Step 1 score, relatively speaking?

(Besides "looks) .... what qualities does a plastic surgeon have to have that other surgical specialists might not have?

Dude, surgery is surgery. People go into different surgical fields for 1. the anatomy involved, 2. types of surgery done, 3. personality of the subspecialty, 4. patient population etc. etc. When it comes to skill, it's down to the individual person.

 

[Psai]

I've only met one ugly plastic surgeon. I wouldn't trust an ugly person to know what beauty looks like

So you wouldn't trust a dermatologist who isn't covered in rashes?

 

[Slack3r]

I've only met one ugly plastic surgeon. I wouldn't trust an ugly person to know what beauty looks like

Go google the faculty list of any academic plastic surgery department. You will in no way confuse this list with the Maxim Top 100.

 

[Favoritefarm]

These days? A miracle

 

[PhillyMed777]

Based on my experience as an M3 doing an elective rotation that I didn't care about watching two away rotators:

1. Round on all your competitor's patients.
2. Read about all your competitor's patients.
3. Blurt out answers to all pimp questions asked of your competitor
4. Snipe all of the cases with chair and/or program director from your competitior
5. Directly pimp your competitor on rounds.

The away rotator that did all of these things matched at that program. Who knows what happened to competitor. Probably didn't even get a letter.

Some specialty you got there.

If that is what it takes to get a competitive specialty, then I have zero chance.
I could never see myself doing that on an away rotation.

 

[Psai]

Based on my experience as an M3 doing an elective rotation that I didn't care about watching two away rotators:

1. Round on all your competitor's patients.
2. Read about all your competitor's patients.
3. Blurt out answers to all pimp questions asked of your competitor
4. Snipe all of the cases with chair and/or program director from your competitior
5. Directly pimp your competitor on rounds.

The away rotator that did all of these things matched at that program. Who knows what happened to competitor. Probably didn't even get a letter.

Some specialty you got there.

Man f that. I would destroy that kid if they rotated with me

 

[qw098]

So you wouldn't trust a dermatologist who isn't covered in rashes?

u gunnin for derm bru?

 

[charmiedermie]

This was probably more about the culture of the program than the culture of the specialty. Sounds like the away rotator understood the program and matched his behavior to their expectations.

Play the game or get played.

I think you said it best: Medicine is a team sport, but medical school sure as hell isn't. The away rotator likely picked up from faculty on what behaviors are encouraged and applauded in students/applicants, adjusted accordingly, and matched. If you want to take the moral high ground fine, but that may be all you have at the end.

 

[qw098]

I think you said it best: Medicine is a team sport, but medical school sure as hell isn't. The away rotator likely picked up from faculty on what behaviors are encouraged and applauded in students/applicants, adjusted accordingly, and matched. If you want to take the moral high ground fine, but that may be all you have at the end.

nice guys finish last

 

[PhillyMed777]

Thanks for the advice people. Will proceed to ruin everyone's career around me when the circumstances are right.
Success here I come.

 

[PL198]

Thanks for the advice people. Will proceed to ruin everyone's career around me when the circumstances are right.
Success here I come.

That's the spirit

 

[Flamen04]

Go google the faculty list of any academic plastic surgery department. You will in no way confuse this list with the Maxim Top 100.

I don't know what you're talking about Willis

 

[Psai]

u gunnin for derm bru?

Ain't nothing but the best for the best

 

[LizzyM]

I've only met one ugly plastic surgeon. I wouldn't trust an ugly person to know what beauty looks like

Isn't this more like going to a shop with two barbers? You don't want the one with the best hair cut.

 

[qw098]

Ain't nothing but the best for the best

gl bru

 

[Psai]

gl bru

We're all gonna make it

 

[cbrons]

Based on my experience as an M3 doing an elective rotation that I didn't care about watching two away rotators:

1. Round on all your competitor's patients.
2. Read about all your competitor's patients.
3. Blurt out answers to all pimp questions asked of your competitor
4. Snipe all of the cases with chair and/or program director from your competitior
5. Directly pimp your competitor on rounds.

The away rotator that did all of these things matched at that program. Who knows what happened to competitor. Probably didn't even get a letter.

Some specialty you got there.

Darwinism at its finest brother...if you can't be the Lion, you gotta be the prey.

 

[allantois]

If you are interested in cosmetic surgery, you could pursue it through a variety of routes:

1) Plastic Surgery (could start in gen surgery)
2) ENT -> Facial Plastic Surgery
3) Ophtalmology -> Oculoplastic surgery
4) Dermatology -> Dermatologic surgery
All specialties are competitive, however. A nice thing about non-plastic cosmetic surgeons is that they have cushy specialties to fall back on when cosmetic cases are low, unlike plastic surgeons who don't have anything in the scope of practice not shared with other specialties.
There's also a dental route through Oral Surgery.

 

[Wordead]

If you are interested in cosmetic surgery, you could pursue it through a variety of routes:

1) Plastic Surgery (could start in gen surgery)
2) ENT -> Facial Plastic Surgery
3) Ophtalmology -> Oculoplastic surgery
4) Dermatology -> Dermatologic surgery
All specialties are competitive, however. A nice thing about non-plastic cosmetic surgeons is that they have cushy specialties to fall back on when cosmetic cases are low, unlike plastic surgeons who don't have anything in the scope of practice not shared with other specialties.
There's also a dental route through Oral Surgery.

Breast, wound, burn, hand, trauma, flaps.....theres plenty of non cosmetic plastics stuff. People think plastics is facelifts and nosejobs when its a pretty small segment of plastic surgeons that do that.

 

[MediCane2006]

1. Decide basically on day 1 of MS-1 that you want to do Plastics, then....
Rock Step I (at least 250)
Do research and get at least 1 first author publication in PRS or Annals by the time applications are due
Cure cancer
Be a concert pianist, triathlete, published science fiction author, or something similar to demonstrate you are "multi-talented"
2. If, like the vast majority of us, you missed Step 1, then you need to get some research done as early as possible (get plugged in with your plastics residents, faculty, etc and see if you can piggyback on one of their projects - your draw is that you are motivated and have more free time than they do, so you can do the background research for a case report for example), honor as many MS-3 rotations as you can (obviously including surgery), and set up home and away rotations in plastics. You need some letters from people in the field that say hey, this is a good guy. Plastics is a relatively small field and those letters go a long way.
3. If, like a not small portion of us, you have decided you want to do Plastics a little late for any of this to apply, you're gonna have to take the longer route. Residencies in ENT, surgery, or even OMFS can serve as entries into plastics . Yes, this means you will need a few more years of training, but you will also get arguably a more solid foundation and the opportunity to be double boarded.

It's a great field. People will line up to talk you out of doing it. Don't listen.

 

[Dr.Smexy]

1. Decide basically on day 1 of MS-1 that you want to do Plastics, then....
Rock Step I (at least 250)
Do research and get at least 1 first author publication in PRS or Annals by the time applications are due
Cure cancer
Be a concert pianist, triathlete, published science fiction author, or something similar to demonstrate you are "multi-talented"
2. If, like the vast majority of us, you missed Step 1, then you need to get some research done as early as possible (get plugged in with your plastics residents, faculty, etc and see if you can piggyback on one of their projects - your draw is that you are motivated and have more free time than they do, so you can do the background research for a case report for example), honor as many MS-3 rotations as you can (obviously including surgery), and set up home and away rotations in plastics. You need some letters from people in the field that say hey, this is a good guy. Plastics is a relatively small field and those letters go a long way.
3. If, like a not small portion of us, you have decided you want to do Plastics a little late for any of this to apply, you're gonna have to take the longer route. Residencies in ENT, surgery, or even OMFS can serve as entries into plastics . Yes, this means you will need a few more years of training, but you will also get arguably a more solid foundation and the opportunity to be double boarded.

It's a great field. People will line up to talk you out of doing it. Don't listen.

It seems that there are a lot of disgruntled plastic surgeons on SDN and a lot of complains center around extremely poor compensation for recon work and many other procedures. Plastic also depends heavily on the economic status of the country (mortgage and bills>> new breast, nose jobs or liposuction) Can you give your take/insight on how the field is right now? I'm an incoming medical student and really curious about the field.

 

[MediCane2006]

It seems that there are a lot of disgruntled plastic surgeons on SDN and a lot of complains center around extremely poor compensation for recon work and many other procedures. Plastic also depends heavily on the economic status of the country (mortgage and bills>> new breast, nose jobs or liposuction) Can you give your take/insight on how the field is right now? I'm an incoming medical student and really curious about the field.

I'm going to give you my perspective as someone who is going into a mainly reconstructive part of the field - academic craniofacial surgery - and has little interest in a cosmetic practice (just have little interest in that particular patient population).

Reimbursements suck and the RVU system is just silly - for example, the RVU's for a skin graft or muscle flap far outweigh those of a cleft lip or palate, which clearly does not take into account the technical skill required to perform those procedures. That being said, most academic plastic surgeons are not struggling (I'm looking for a job right now, and salaries for an academic plastic surgeon in reasonable areas like the South and Midwest range from 275k-400k depending on location, call, contract structure, etc). Private practice is a whole different ballgame and requires a level of business skill that I don't possess, but salaries are on average quite higher. Currently hand and micro are the most in-demand subspecialties and command a relatively higher salary depending on how much call you are willing to take.

Honestly, if you're going into something for the money i'd suggest spine, not plastics. Certainly our field has the potential for income based on injectables, cosmetic surgery, etc. But it's not good enough money to do the surgeries if you don't love the specialty. For example, I would do this field no matter what the reimbursement (within reason) because I just love pediatric craniofacial surgery. I definitely would never do a hand fellowship, no matter how much hand surgeons get paid. Ditto micro.

 

[Dr.Smexy]

I'm going to give you my perspective as someone who is going into a mainly reconstructive part of the field - academic craniofacial surgery - and has little interest in a cosmetic practice (just have little interest in that particular patient population).

Reimbursements suck and the RVU system is just silly - for example, the RVU's for a skin graft or muscle flap far outweigh those of a cleft lip or palate, which clearly does not take into account the technical skill required to perform those procedures. That being said, most academic plastic surgeons are not struggling (I'm looking for a job right now, and salaries for an academic plastic surgeon in reasonable areas like the South and Midwest range from 275k-400k depending on location, call, contract structure, etc). Private practice is a whole different ballgame and requires a level of business skill that I don't possess, but salaries are on average quite higher. Currently hand and micro are the most in-demand subspecialties and command a relatively higher salary depending on how much call you are willing to take.

Honestly, if you're going into something for the money i'd suggest spine, not plastics. Certainly our field has the potential for income based on injectables, cosmetic surgery, etc. But it's not good enough money to do the surgeries if you don't love the specialty. For example, I would do this field no matter what the reimbursement (within reason) because I just love pediatric craniofacial surgery. I definitely would never do a hand fellowship, no matter how much hand surgeons get paid. Ditto micro.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge!

 

[MediCane2006]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge!

No prob. Always happy to talk about this stuff

 

[PL198]

It seems that there are a lot of disgruntled plastic surgeons on SDN and a lot of complains center around extremely poor compensation for recon work and many other procedures. Plastic also depends heavily on the economic status of the country (mortgage and bills>> new breast, nose jobs or liposuction) Can you give your take/insight on how the field is right now? I'm an incoming medical student and really curious about the field.

literally two posts above yours is talking about how plastics isn't just breast, nose job or liposuction.

 

[Dr.Smexy]

literally two posts above yours is talking about how plastics isn't just breast, nose job or liposuction.

I'm assuming you didn't read my post closely. I never say that plastic is just about breast, nose job or liposuction...that's one point I made as to regard on how plastic surgeon might be more heavily dependent on the economy (very rare to have a pure Recon work or pure cosmetic practices so I asked about both in my post).

 

[Hangry]

If, like a not small portion of us, you have decided you want to do Plastics a little late for any of this to apply, you're gonna have to take the longer route. Residencies in ENT, surgery, or even OMFS can serve as entries into plastics . Yes, this means you will need a few more years of training, but you will also get arguably a more solid foundation and the opportunity to be double boarded.

Can't match plastics? Just match ENT silly! Or become a dentist...? 😕


Just giving you a hard time. Always appreciate advice from those farther along who are willing to provide their opinions.

 

[Slack3r]

Can't match plastics? Just match ENT silly! Or become a dentist...? 😕


Just giving you a hard time. Always appreciate advice from those farther along who are willing to provide their opinions.

These days ENT is more competitive than plastics, presumably because people realized you can still get to that sweet, sweet cosmetic $$$ with a 1 year facial PRS fellowship. And you still have those quick, high volume FESSs and tubes/tonsils to boot.

 

[username456789]

These days ENT is more competitive than plastics

I don't think that's necessarily true.

 

[Psai]

I don't think that's necessarily true.

It is comparable. I don't know what sparked it but ENT really jumped up in the past few years. The last charting the outcomes in 2014 has ent at 248 step 1 and integrated plastics at 245 and ent is still on the way up from the way its sounds. But what's really scary is that the people who didn't match into ent had an average step 1 of 239

 

[PL198]

I'm assuming you didn't read my post closely. I never say that plastic is just about breast, nose job or liposuction...that's one point I made as to regard on how plastic surgeon might be more heavily dependent on the economy (very rare to have a pure Recon work or pure cosmetic practices so I asked about both in my post).

I don't think you understood my post. The whole point we're making is that plastic surgery isn't just rich people getting touch ups in various areas. That is the portion that is somewhat dependent on the economy. Except as previously stated in this thread multiple times now, that only makes up a fraction of what plastic surgeons do.

 

[Hangry]

These days ENT is more competitive than plastics, presumably because people realized you can still get to that sweet, sweet cosmetic $$$ with a 1 year facial PRS fellowship. And you still have those quick, high volume FESSs and tubes/tonsils to boot.

Yeah that was my point, that ENT is probably slightly more competitive than plastics nowadays. At the very least they are similarly competitive, and someone who isn't competitive enough to match integrated plastics is not likely to be able to waltz into an ENT spot to try to fulfill their plastics dreams.

I now realize my internet sarcasm was not written terribly well. Still working on it.