PhD/PsyD How to maximize future success in this (shaky) career path?

[GirlNeuro13]

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So I just accepted a spot in a very well regarded clinical psychology doctoral program. I was super excited about this accomplishment until I stumbled upon the many threads on this site talking about the shaky future of clinical psychologists. After reading about reimbursement issues, the professional schools that are watering down the job applicant pool, and internship match rates, I am honestly scared! I am hoping I might be able to get some productive tips on how to BEST avoid these pitfalls and to set myself up for the most success. I am personally interested in neuropsychological research (TBI and AD). I would like to have a career that is at least 50/50 research if not 20/80 research heavy. With all the people out there who are talking about how this career path is doomed, I'm hoping there are some things that one can do to make the best of a changing landscape!! If you have any ideas of what these things are, please share as it would be great to have some of these in mind while just entering a program! 🙂

 

[WisNeuro]

I wouldn't pay the Chicken Little's too much heed. While there are problems, the sky is still intact last time I checked. You're not going to get rich in this field, but no one ever did. Although, if you do some forensic work you can get close. I will say that straight up academia is a harder road to travel than the clinical path. You're more likely to find a 25/75 research/clinical job in an AMC or VA than the other ratios in my experience.

 

[GirlNeuro13]

Thanks WisNeuro. I was hoping that some of these threads were really due to some frustrations about certain issues and not the whole field in general. It sounds to me like a good tip would be to be very well rounded (clinical and research) since a research heavy position may be harder to come by?

 

[cch0113]

I would love some input on this too as I am starting a PhD program this fall as well. Other than the usual "get tons of pubs and good clinical experience" is there anything else you can do to make sure that you set yourself up for success given the uncertainty of the field??

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

1. Avoid debt. If you have to take loans for any reason (over summer when there is less/limited funding) make sure to pay at least the interest so it doesn't compound over the 5-8yrs you are doing your training.
2. Show productivity. Publications, presentations, invited talks, etc. This has been talked about on here, a quick search should turn up some threads. If you want to be a researcher, you should shoot for at least 4-6+ publications (doesn't have to be 1st author) by internship.
3. Exhibit an ability to secure funding. If you can't secure your own external funding while in training, then work with your mentor/others so you know what is involved in it. You'll want to prove that you can score well on your grant apps, even if you don't get them funded.
4. Network. It matters who knows you and your work.
5. If at all possible, try and land at one of the "known" research internship sites: Brown, Yale, MUSC, etc.
6. Network more…particularly at conferences. If you present and publish, then people will have a reason to know you.
7. Target the neuro fellowships that are known research powerhouses (e.g. UMich, UCLA, etc) that will provide a 50/50 split for clinical and research pursuits. The % split is usually listed on the div40 listing of sites.
8. Do your homework before taking your first job out of fellowship. You might not land at your "perfect" place, but you need to have a plan going in because you don't want to invest 3-4+ years somewhere and then realize that you will not be given opportunities for advancement.

 

[JeyRo]

Maybe... don't be afraid to specialize? I always found that worked for me... I ignored the people who suggested that having generalist-applicable skills was the way to go, and instead specialized. Now I'm an expert and gainfully employed at a comparatively decent wage in my small but respectable niche. Not a bad thing.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Maybe... don't be afraid to specialize? I always found that worked for me... I ignored the people who suggested that having generalist-applicable skills was the way to go, and instead specialized. Now I'm an expert and gainfully employed at a comparatively decent wage in my small but respectable niche. Not a bad thing.

I would agree with this. Definitely work on getting a solid set of generalist-type skills/training early in your career, but definitely don't be afraid to specialize and develop a niche. The more you can convince folks that your particular skillset is unique and valuable, and the sooner you can make yourself indispensible once hired, the better.

Related to that, work hard, but also know/learn how to say "no." Don't be afraid to take on new projects that might initially seem a bit out of your league, but at the same time, if you're already overwhelmed and know that taking on something else will result in shoddy work and/or unfulfilled responsibilities, don't do it. In short: say what you mean and mean what you say, so if you say you'll do something, do it--do it well and do it punctually.

80/20 research/clinical type positions do exist, they're just a bit harder to find than something all-clinical (or all-research)--I was just (unexpectedly) recommended for one the other day, for example, and I'm a far cry from a research hound. However, it'll likely require some geographic flexibility to find that sort of setup early in your career.

 

[eowyne]

Regarding productivity in grad school - if possible work with a mentor who is very productive, who can most likely help you hit the ground running quickly. It's a lot easier to get 5-6 pubs with an efficient mentor who writes and publishes a lot with students, than with one who publishes less. Also, I agree with JeyRo about specializing, as long as it is a specialty that is likely to be in demand. If you go the direction of academia, you will be rewarded for having a clear and unique niche. And as WisNeuro said, network - go to conferences and have fun (in a not-too-embarrassing way).

 

[eowyne]

Related to that, work hard, but also know/learn how to say "no." Don't be afraid to take on new projects that might initially seem a bit out of your league, but at the same time, if you're already overwhelmed and know that taking on something else will result in shoddy work and/or unfulfilled responsibilities, don't do it. In short: say what you mean and mean what you say, so if you say you'll do something, do it--do it well and do it punctually.

Definitely this. It is very easy to get overcommitted, especially in an exciting research graduate program. I had to say no a lot and still had too many projects! Focus and be efficient and reliable.

 

[cch0113]

Great tips guys! I feel like I just got a ton of information that will help me along the way!

 

[GirlNeuro13]

I agree! Great advice. There are sooooo many books on getting INTO grad school and then it's like all the information washes up. If I am specifically interested in, and my lab focuses on, neuroimaging techniques (fMRI and ASL) as they relate to cognitive decline, would this skill be considered "specialized" or are neuroimagers a dime a dozen in the field?

 

[cococakes]

7. Target the neuro fellowships that are known research powerhouses (e.g. UMich, UCLA, etc) that will provide a 50/50 split for clinical and research pursuits. The % split is usually listed on the div40 listing of sites.



Are you talking about post-docs? Not sure what you meant by fellowships. And why just neuro? any other kinds that would make you competitive? Thanks!

 

[GirlNeuro13]

I think they mentioned Neuro because that is what I am particularly interested in....

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I think they mentioned Neuro because that is what I am particularly interested in....

Correct.

Anyone interested in a research career should most likely complete a fellowship in the area. There are cases where a tenure-track person gets hired directly to faculty w/o a fellowship, it just depends on your area of work, publication history, funding history, etc. I am most familiar with neuro and rehab psych career paths, so areas outside of that I'd defer to others.

 

[WisNeuro]

I agree! Great advice. There are sooooo many books on getting INTO grad school and then it's like all the information washes up. If I am specifically interested in, and my lab focuses on, neuroimaging techniques (fMRI and ASL) as they relate to cognitive decline, would this skill be considered "specialized" or are neuroimagers a dime a dozen in the field?

There are plenty of neuroimaging postdocs out there. Also, lot's of grant money. If you really want to capitalize on grant money, go for DTI. It's all the rage now. Unfortunately, too many people are doing poor research with it to do bad science.

 

[Sanman]

My advice has always been this...work backwards instead of forwards. Look at the people who have positions you want...how did they get there? Keep an eye on the job market...what kind of positions are becoming more available and who are they looking to hire? Then follow that path in your training. It is always something that has worked for me.

 

[erg923]

Depends on your idea of "success" too, remember.

I have a solid VA job and some stuff on the side. Nothing prestigious. But its 40 hours, pays 6 figures, and I have a pension. I know how to talk about and perform brief, evidence based treaments. I have a record of diverse training, good assessment skills, and good clinical judegment. I have published 2 peer review articles. Nothing extraordinary here folks.

 

[EmotRegulation]

1. Avoid debt. If you have to take loans for any reason (over summer when there is less/limited funding) make sure to pay at least the interest so it doesn't compound over the 5-8yrs you are doing your training.
2. Show productivity. Publications, presentations, invited talks, etc. This has been talked about on here, a quick search should turn up some threads. If you want to be a researcher, you should shoot for at least 4-6+ publications (doesn't have to be 1st author) by internship.
3. Exhibit an ability to secure funding. If you can't secure your own external funding while in training, then work with your mentor/others so you know what is involved in it. You'll want to prove that you can score well on your grant apps, even if you don't get them funded.
...
8. Do your homework before taking your first job out of fellowship. You might not land at your "perfect" place, but you need to have a plan going in because you don't want to invest 3-4+ years somewhere and then realize that you will not be given opportunities for advancement.

9. If you are able, cultivate good relationships with profs OTHER than your mentor during grad school. Think about letters you will need for jobs down the line. If you do a minor, or side projects with someone, that can help.
10. If you're interested in academia, get some teaching experience, and even more importantly, get someone to watch you teach and document your teaching ability. Some programs have teaching seminars or courses--take those. Then if you apply to straight out academic positions you can have a "teaching" letter, and even if you go the AMC route, you'll still likely have to mentor post-docs or potentially teach residents, etc.
11. As best as possible, try to cultivate a line of research that is perhaps related to your mentor, but clearly your own. When you apply for jobs later on down the line, the hiring committee will want evidence that you can come up with your own ideas.

 

[docma]

11. As best as possible, try to cultivate a line of research that is perhaps related to your mentor, but clearly your own. When you apply for jobs later on down the line, the hiring committee will want evidence that you can come up with your own ideas.

Good advice to cultivate multiple faculty and avoid faculty rivalry/drama. Also to have an individual niche, not just attached to the mentor, as mentors can die or depart. I have seen some students stranded with a topic they didn't really like and no one available to help them get done. Do everything you can to rise above departmental politics and just get the thesis done....

 

[PsyDr]

I'll offer some different advice.

1) In grad school, cultivate a niche interest.
2) make it even more niche.
3) Figure out the REAL WORLD applications and how to monetize this. "johnny needs to sit at the front of the class", is not something you can sell. Braintraining or whatever that nonsense is, sells very well.
4) Figure out how to link your unique ideas with industries that have money/VCs
5) become familiar with business/real world
6) pitch just enough of it to get consultant money. Do not give away the prestige.

 

[eowyne]

Good advice to cultivate multiple faculty and avoid faculty rivalry/drama. Also to have an individual niche, not just attached to the mentor, as mentors can die or depart. I have seen some students stranded with a topic they didn't really like and no one available to help them get done. Do everything you can to rise above departmental politics and just get the thesis done....

Also, another reason to work with multiple faculty - sometimes the person you think will be your mentor does not turn out to be a good match in terms of personality, mentoring style, etc. This happened with at least 2 students/year in our highly respected R1 program. If you work with multiple faculty you will have other options.


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[Therapist4Chnge]

9. If you are able, cultivate good relationships with profs OTHER than your mentor during grad school. Think about letters you will need for jobs down the line. If you do a minor, or side projects with someone, that can help.
10. If you're interested in academia, get some teaching experience, and even more importantly, get someone to watch you teach and document your teaching ability. Some programs have teaching seminars or courses--take those. Then if you apply to straight out academic positions you can have a "teaching" letter, and even if you go the AMC route, you'll still likely have to mentor post-docs or potentially teach residents, etc.
11. As best as possible, try to cultivate a line of research that is perhaps related to your mentor, but clearly your own. When you apply for jobs later on down the line, the hiring committee will want evidence that you can come up with your own ideas.

These are all excellent recommendations. Just one addition for the teaching recommendation:
-Put together a Teaching Portfolio (there are multiple examples on Google), here is one example. This requires planning and quite a bit of legwork up front, but once you have something together it is easy to update and it can be very effective.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

These are all excellent recommendations. Just one addition for the teaching recommendation:
-Put together a Teaching Portfolio (there are multiple examples on Google), here is one example. This requires planning and quite a bit of legwork up front, but once you have something together it is easy to update and it can be very effective.

Agree with this. We had to make one for the teaching course I took in grad school, and while (as T4C mentioned) it takes some time initially, it's much easier to then update later on...or, at the very least, you'll have some practice creating one if you end up having to do it all again from scratch. Beyond that, having been entirely responsible for a course or courses also shows some semblance of responsibility, personal initiative, and dedication to teaching/training.

We also had to be videotaped and directly observed during a portion of our class sessions, and as was previously mentioned, this type of formal feedback can be very helpful.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Now I need to figure out where I put my portfolio.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Now I need to figure out where I put my portfolio.

I'm pretty sure mine's been stuck in a box somewhere since I moved for postdoc, which basically means it's as good as lost. Sigh.

 

[Realities]

Thanks, everyone. Most if not all of the advice posted here will be invaluable to me as I start graduate school next year.

 

[George Anderson]

I would love some input on this too as I am starting a PhD program this fall as well. Other than the usual "get tons of pubs and good clinical experience" is there anything else you can do to make sure that you set yourself up for success given the uncertainty of the field??

I am not a psychologist. I am an LCSW with Post Graduate training in Child and Adolescent Psychotherapy. It appears that Post Graduate Fellowships are over looked in this thread. My training has made it possible for me to teach at UCLA School of Medicine as well as Simmons School of Social Work, USC School of Social Work and California State University School of Social Work. In addition I have taught in two Ph.D. Programs in Psychology including Pepperdine University and Wright Institute. While at the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute, I taught first year psychiatric residents and child fellows.

During the 1980s and 90s, my wife and I owned the largest privately owned psychiatric clinic in the nation. We provided in patient and out patient treatment as well as substance abuse treatment. During the 80s we charged and received $200 per hour for psychiatry time, $140 for psychologists and $135 for clinical social workers. We operated in twelve states with corporated offices in the Brentwood section of Los Angeles. My income during this period was well over one million per year. We had corporate clients including Zerox, Occidental Petroleum, AMTRAX, United Air Line, and many other large businesses.

It is highly unlikely that anyone will make much under Manage Health Care. Therefore, I suggest finding a niche that is needed and wanted by persons able to pay. I am the largest provider of coaching for "disruptive physicians" in the nation. This coaching is mandated for physicians who problems managing anger at work. My fees are $4900 - $5900 in advanced.

Finally, I attribute my success to competence and location. I have always lived and worked in a high income community (Brendwood/Los Angeles).

I hope these comments are seen as helpful rather than bragging on my own success.

 

[perhaps11]

Check out the book "The Compleat Academic: A Career Guide" - it has some great info on how to be successful in all stages of an academic career in psychology (e.g. grant funding, job talks, surviving as a junior faculty member, etc.).